Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2015] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[piau9000]

My prediction was correct.
One day before the release of the volume too.

 

[Xzone]

I think World trigger anime are more rentable to Toriko anime...
For the Black Clover, I never hate an author, allways have a hope with people like Komi, kishimoto and other, but Tabata is like who have a problem with the mankind or something, the last page of chapter 22 is like who give a fuck to make a potable series, the Bleach plagiarism page is the worst thing I've see in this fucking 22 chapter and I see very utter garbage write to Tabata and remember the same thing happened in a USA comic book 4 or 5 years ago and the author's series got axed...
For other side, the second chapter of Best Blue was improve, still not good , but not terrible , it's readable and I'm ok with the 3 character(The coach, the sister and the MC except one or two scenes of the last...), has potential.

 

[SharkBait]

I think World trigger anime are more rentable to Toriko anime...
For the Black Clover, I never hate an author, allways have a hope with people like Komi, kishimoto and other, but Tabata is like who have a problem with the mankind or something, the last page of chapter 22 is like who give a fuck to make a potable series, the Bleach plagiarism page is the worst thing I've see in this fucking 22 chapter and I see very utter garbage write to Tabata and remember the same thing happened in a USA comic book 4 or 5 years ago and the author's series got axed...
For other side, the second chapter of Best Blue was improve, still not good , but not terrible , it's readable and I'm ok with the 3 character(The coach, the sister and the MC except one or two scenes of the last...), has potential.

How is it Bleach plagirism whenever numerous anime, manga, live action, paintings, have used the same sort of image?

 

[Xzone]

Black Clover

Spoiler

Bleach

Spoiler

Call it tribute, call it bad luck who select the type of scene, call it it ‎fall asleep and he couldn't make the last page and have to draw that, call it you can, It's not a Incarnate case but still pretty painful with an profesional author(well, still a noob until he make a second hit) and that isn't the first time...

Edit: If you trying to tell all the series are doing that, pls stop, one thing is inspire your series and other is the BC case

 

[conankudo]

Speaking of obvious plagiarism: BLeach and BLack Clover - both are sharing the same initial letters

 

[Xzone]

Well the last flashback of Bleach was very BL

 

[DoctorApollo]

The funniest thing about this is that even though Tabata's version is way more detailed and has a better angle, and a more "detailed" background, his work still looks amateur next to Bleach. Comparing the designs like this, it's easy to see the difference between a truly professional creative artist, compared to an admittedly skilled artist who winged a few amateur-looking designs, almost all of which are identical. Note that there is not a single pair of similar-looking Bleach characters in that image, whether it's face, or hair, or even outfit/accessories -- and they're wearing a uniform! In Black Clover's version? Well...

Even Bleach's background (probably Bleach's worst aspect) looks way more professional than Tabata's little "this looks like i made it in MS Paint with the line tool" background. I mean, he didn't even attempt to shade it.

Note Kubo's usage of background shading, speed-lines and SFX to create an incredible atmosphere even in this very empty environment. When you look at that Bleach picture, you are receiving Kubo's message, you understand what he was trying to draw. When you look at Tabata's, it's just a collection of nearly identical characters with only slightly varying facial expressions.

Also, apparently all of Tabata's newly introduced characters don't have shadows, which is worrying, to say the least.

Regarding the bottom panels, comparing Ichimaru to the two panels Tabata has there... Kubo creates more atmosphere even with a straight up character and a 3/4 blank background than Tabata creates with effect lines, three characters, shading, split into two panels, some depth of field, etc.

Basically, I'm trying to say Kubo can do about ten times as much as Tabata, with a fraction of the resources/detail.

(disclaimer: I don't dislike Black Clover and as for Bleach, despite defending it a few pages ago, I don't particularly like or care for it. I just think the difference between high quality shonen manga and Black Clover is... evident.)

--------------------------------

(also I don't think this is plagiarism or anything. this whole "showing the new characters in two rows" thing is a very normal occurrence in manga, you could probably trace it back to the beginnings of comics if you really wanted to.)

 

[Unok]

So you are saying that once a mangaka draws some panel, someone must never draw similar positions or it becomes plagiarism? Or tribute or whatever? So everyone who draws a panel with character facing front is either plagiarising or paying tribute to the first mangaka who did that? In the shown case from Bleach, Gin panel is also plagiarised as there are plenty of manga before that who had the character standing like that and smiling or people sitting on a "throne/chair".

Do you even know why characters and people are getting lined like that? Because if you don't, that's your own problem and it doesn't make it inspired from Bleach, just because it have similar scene. People are getting lined like that even before bleach.

Black Clover may be many things, may be inspired by many series, but please stop trying to mock it about everything and even call it more things than it is. Take your hate elsewhere, it's getting annoying already seeing people constantly trying to trash some series, just because they don't like it.


"Now, please can you do the same with Toriko Toei? a new season, Toriko really needs this " not until Dragon Ball Super ends. And the rumors says it will be 100 episodes, so Toriko 2nd anime will probably come right after that (i.e. after 2 years) as it will also have enough manga material to work with.

 

[101nemesis]

Uhm...What? Bleach is my fav series but come on guys, that plagiarism accusation is just downright hideous. It's plagiarism if he copied the character design or costume design or story or something of that sort. Not a panel. I'm sure Bleach isn't the first manga to do that and I'm sure countless other manga do that.

That said. I REALLY HATE the character designs in Black Clover. One of things that is putting me away from it.
As someone who can't stand Black Clover after trying to read 3-4 chapters, I understand the hate but the plagiarism accusation is just wrong.

Now about Toriko anime returning, I don't think it will happen. If it doesn't happen this year, it's definitely not gonna happen especially taking Toriko's huge sales decline and unstable toc placements into consideration.

 

[De La Croissant]

The problem with Black Clover is that some of his ideas are too similar to those of the recent series or those that are yet in the magazine (the design of the MC and his rival makes this very clear). And many of them are key ideas, and not only visual but also thematic and narrative. So, it is not plagiarism, but it is natural that people to comment about it.

Spoiler

Black Cat:

YYH:

RK:

HnK:

 

[stratofortress]

 

[ElJin]

Black Clover

Spoiler

Bleach

Spoiler

Call it tribute, call it bad luck who select the type of scene, call it it ‎fall asleep and he couldn't make the last page and have to draw that, call it you can, It's not a Incarnate case but still pretty painful with an profesional author(well, still a noob until he make a second hit) and that isn't the first time...

Edit: If you trying to tell all the series are doing that, pls stop, one thing is inspire your series and other is the BC case

So Bleach copied Saint Seiya?

Please, this is a common scene in any shounen. Or you all really think Tabata-sensei, when drawing this scene, thought "Oh, I know, I remember I saw something similar while reading Bleach, so I will do the same!" and opened a volume of Bleach, drawing ditto?

*Thanks for the image, ziko77

 

[conankudo]

Since when is MH becoming 4chan? And for the record, this scene from Saint Seiya Lost Canvas (chapter 3) was published later than Bleach. (Bleach chapter 81 was released in 2003 and chapter 3 of Lost canvas in 2006. ) But I doubt Teshirogi stole from Kubo

 

[WyldViolet]

So Bleach copied Saint Seiya?

Please, this is a common scene in any shounen. Or you all really think Tabata-sensei, when drawing this scene, thought "Oh, I know, I remember I saw something similar while reading Bleach, so I will do the same!" and opened a volume of Bleach, drawing ditto?

*Thanks for the image, ziko77

Well with Saint Seiya apparently being Kubo's biggest influence on Bleach I wouldn't be surprised if that panel was a homage to Saint Seiya.
The panel in Black Clover isn't outright plagiarism, but that, combined with a litany of other "borrowed" elements cause the series to just feel like a bunch of shit from other popular series thrown together. Tabata is probably the least original hack I've ever seen in WSJ.
I still can't get over the blatant reuse of dungeons from Magi, down the smallest elements.

 

[ElJin]

Since when is MH becoming 4chan? And for the record, this scene from Saint Seiya Lost Canvas (chapter 3) was published later than Bleach. (Bleach chapter 81 was released in 2003 and chapter 3 of Lost canvas in 2006. ) But I doubt Teshirogi stole from Kubo

Then vice versa, whatever, the concept is the same.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Seriously, this "Black Clover is copying someone" thing is getting out of hand and ridiculous, also, is funny because i remember so much times when people accused Bleach for plagiarism with Yu Yu Hakusho, even mangas like D.Gray-Man had some serious accusations of plagiarism. , Oda should be accused for obvious Dragon Ball plagiarism, Kishimoto too, and thousands of other shounen artists, also, Mashima should be accused for copy the entire Shonen Jump, but no, totally fine, is inspiration and homage, but hey, Tabata draw a super common scene in battle shounens! plagiarism! BURN IT!!!

Talking about plagiarism is very complicated, i can accuse thousands of mangas, mainly battle shounens, using a vague concept of plagiarism, no one would escape lol

 

[ElJin]

Well with Saint Seiya apparently being Kubo's biggest influence on Bleach I wouldn't be surprised if that panel was a homage to Saint Seiya.
The panel in Black Clover isn't outright plagiarism, but that, combined with a litany of other "borrowed" elements cause the series to just feel like a bunch of shit from other popular series thrown together. Tabata is probably the least original hack I've ever seen in WSJ.
I still can't get over the blatant reuse of dungeons from Magi, down the smallest elements.

I have published here long time ago a text saying how meaningless are these Black Clover comparisons with other series (the why everyone says that the Dungeon of Black Clover is a copy of the Magi, and DanMachi, a anime of a Dungeon, nobody says anything). Anyway, I really hate this kind of discussion, the more arguments arrange, more like people who need to blame someone for something out like that. So Adventure Time (the cartoon) is a copy of Pokémon, Magi, Fairy Tail, Bleach, One Piece and virtually every other shounen anime/manga? Because as far as I know, in Adventure Time has creatures, dungeons, swords, powers, magic, a monstrously giant world, zombies and everything we've seen in other shounens and we also see in Black Clover.

Fact is, Tabata-sensei created a fantasy manga, the apex of fantasy, bringing together all elements that usually excite readers of the age range proposed. Adventure Time, One Piece, Zelda and etc, there are creatures themselves, own powers, own fruits/food, caves, forests, cities and also the dungeons. I am not a supporter of Black Clover, how much less think is the best magazine series currently, only insist in saying that all that kind of comparison, only visual or story line, is completely meaningless.

 

[piau9000]

ALL battle shonens nowadays are a copy of Hokuto no Ken.
Almost everything that the new ones do today, Hokuto aleady did before.
Yet, I never saw someone complaining about it.


I'm gonna repeat what I said some months ago.
The amount of hate that Black Clover is getting just proves that it'll be succesfull.
Otherwise people would just forget about it.

I sugest the haters to stop hating, otherwise they will gonna have a very hateful life ahead of then.
This series will gonna last at least 8 years.

 

[DoctorApollo]

I wouldn't go as far as to say all battle shonens are Hokuto no Ken, since Hokuto no Ken wasn't exactly the first, and a lot of the most common shonen tropes (transformations, a new villain every arc stronger than all existing characters, etc.) came from stuff like Dragon Ball and many others.

But I think if you got a list of like five or so series, that include Dragon Ball, Hokuto no Ken, Saint Seiya, Akira or Otomo in general, maybe Ashita no Joe or something by Tezuka, you could probably trace back everything that ever happens in any battle shonen manga to one of those.

Regardless, I think we can all agree the whole plagiarizing thing is just a dick-measuring contest of "my favorite series came before your favorite series".

 

[SharkBait]

Complaining about the "dungeons" is silly, "dungeons" and "dungeon crawling" is a genre afterall. No one critized Magi for being a ripoff of others.