It was implied in the CR translation, while Gray himself is literally able to eat Ur's magic. Gray hasn't gone all out yet so I doubt he would have great feats yet.
Why does it need to be stated? Pantherlily sparred evenly with Erza, so we can say Erza held back, same thing here. Gray was holding back against Ul immensely even in base, that is fact. Hidn't use any of his usual strong ice make attacks/no Ds/Demon mode, no DeS Spells in DeS Mode and was slated in one position instead of going with his usual charging.
UR DID NOT DISAPPEAR BEFORE NEINHART WAS DEFEATED. I seriously can't believe I have to keep explaining this to you. If we don't SEE her disappear before Neinhart was defeated, then you can't claim that she did. You keep bringing up this point as if it were fact when you have no evidence whatsoever that she was defeated by Gray and Lyon. We don't see her disappearing, we don't see her defeated, heck, we don't even see her take any damage throughout the entire fight. So you claiming that she was beaten before Neinhart was is definitely an assumption.
Do you not understand the situation and context? I can't believe I have to explain this to you very clearly. Lyon overcame Ul thanks to having a strong will to defeat her+ combination of attacks used to punt Ur. Erza had the strong will to defeat Ikaruga, Azuma and Kyouka because she got over the emotional trauma Kyouka laid upon her, both situations are extremely similar. The fight was more of a emotional one to begin not a physical one like the others. They held back hence that's why Ur was not damaged, until Lyon resolved the issues, and Ur got pastered.
Where? In any case, Natsu hasn't gone all out either. Not going all out is not the same as holding back immensely. I can accept that Gray didn't go all out, because he wasn't putting in max effort. However, there's no evidence that he was holding back immensely. Given how much resistance Ur gave him, mid-difficulty should be more than fair.
It needs to be stated otherwise it's just an assumption.
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Raienryu = Lightning Flame-DragonI looked at the panels, Natsu was using primarily fire dragon slaying magic and it's tints of lightning embued. Elemental embued is different than a FDKM fucking spell. That was Base Natsu with primarily fire.
Gray held back immsensely. Show me how many ice attacks Gray used in the fight outside of a low key move as Ice Geyser. Show me where Gray was charging against Ul in his base mode.
Natsu has gone all out, BDKM or whatever is called is him going all out. Gray was holding back a lot, the second he peeped talked Lyon he beat her straight away along with Lyon, if he was serious he would of just eaten all of Ur's attacks.
Again, NO PROOF. We can definitely say that Erza defeated her Historias because we SAW THEM DISAPPEAR. We DID NOT SEE Ur take damage, we DID NOT SEE Ur get defeated, and we DID NOT SEE Ur disappear before Neinhart was beaten. Look at Ur when Gray and Lyon used their final moves against her. Does it look like she took any damage at all?
How is it not proof? The point of the fight against Ur was overcoming the mental hurdle akin to how Erza overcame the mental hurdle in defeating her past opponents with her will power. We saw Ul get punted out of the way, not disappear. Those weren't final attacks from Lyon-Gray, they were simply a unison raid of attacks.
Sure. Natsu didn't hold back against Bluenote. Holding back would be like against Ajeel's troops, where the manga goes out of their way to say that they had to conserve power. There's a difference between holding back immensely and not going all out.
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There is no more reason to assume that Fire Dragon King spells is Natsu going all out anymore than there is any reason to assume that going in DeS mode is Gray going all out. FDK mode is a mode just like LFD mode is a mode. Natsu has still yet to use multiple FDK spells in a fight, or use any secret arts in that mode.
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You can use FDK spells without entering FDK mode the same way you can enter LFD spells without entering LFD mode.
You just said that since it hasn't been stated, it's an assumption. So your claims over Natsu's behalf is an assumption The difference is how many attacks you use even in your regular mode. The fact is Gray used ONE single spell, and that happened to be one of his low key low tier ones.
My arguments have been debunked? Huh? You know what you just did? You used Natsu using a LFD move as proof that he was in the mode, which IS LITERALLY WHAT WE'VE BEEN ARGUING ABOUT. My whole argument has been saying that Natsu DOESNT need to be in the mode to use the move. You used your opinion to try and prove that that very same opinion is true.
This is not overhyping.When he activates FDKM he clearly mentions it and we see an immense aura coming from his body that evaporates a lake(a mountain level feat) and burns a Spriggan.I will give you an example.The panel you posted where he destroyed Ikusa he used FDK Spell there was no mention of FDKM.Can you show me otherwise.On the other hand in chapter 464 he for the first time he showed FDKM.Immense aura in the picture of FDKM and FDK Spell in Base clearly distinguishes it.
Do you recount that you originally said Natsu in Base can use lighting attacks? Then you resorted to using the Gemma reference. You're contradicting yourself again by changing the context around. Natsu used LFD Mode, thanks to Axiomus's translating the spell.
How are they an assumption? Bluenote though that Natsu was dangerous because Natsu reminded him of Gildarts, and tried to crush him. Natsu overpowered his attempt, and then oneshotted him. He was doing all this while holding Chelia up by the back of her shirt. Gray was being pushed back by Ur, who overpowered him on some exchanges. Then, with Lyon's help, managed to take down Ur. Natsu had considerably less difficulty with Bluenote than Gray had with Chelia.
Oh my god. Your reasoning for Natsu being in LFDM against Jemma is because of Natsu using a LFD move. But why? Why does Natsu using a move automatically mean that he's in that mode? That's literally what we've been arguing about.
All this equates to Gray holding back immensely or by a very good margin:How are they an assumption? I haven't made any assumptions. Bluenote though that Natsu was dangerous because Natsu reminded him of Gildarts, and tried to crush him. Natsu overpowered his attempt, and then oneshotted him. He was doing all this while holding Chelia up by the back of her shirt. Now, notice how I didn't say Natsu was holding back, much less holding back immensely? There's no reason to assume he was holding back. There's a difference between holding back and not going all out. Natsu roared at Bluenote as seriously as he would roar at anyone else. Bluenote simply couldn't push Natsu to the point where he was going all out. Gray was being pushed back by Ur, who overpowered him on some exchanges. Then, with Lyon's help, managed to take down Ur. He wasn't going all out either, but there was no reason to believe he was holding back. Natsu had considerably less difficulty with Bluenote than Gray had with Chelia.
This is an example of when someone was holding back immensely:
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"Why does Natsu using a move automatically mean that he's in that mode?" Because we need to be clear and certain that he's using Base or is in that mode;
Again, where's the proof that Gray held back immensely? Just because you didn't go all out doesn't mean you held back immensely. There's a middle ground. That's what mid-difficulty is for.
You know how we can tell if Natsu's in a certain mode? When he yells the name of the mode. If Natsu could enter his different modes without saying it then there would literally be no reason for him to say it at all throughout the entire manga. We've had multiple occasions of Natsu yelling the name of his mode before going into it. Are you saying that during the other times, Natsu was already in the mode and he was just saying the name because he felt like it?
Different cases meet Different results. Which brings to my single point. Natsu used DFKM mode against War Good, because of the spell itself and the name of it. Natsu used LFD Mode against Gemma, because of the spell itself. Spell is more than enough to dictate which mode the character is in regardless of whether he announces it or not. There are special conditions, like change of appearance (and to a lesser extent magical presense) that indicates which mode the character is in where spell name isn't required.
He didn't even go all out in his base mode. Let alone use DeS. You would've have a point IF we See Gray attacking Ul in base with something that isn't low key. like Gray using ice make attacks (high-medium end) against Ur. The fact that he didn't do this, proves my point. Gray in both of his modes, didn't muster a single spell outside of a lowkey one, and you have the nerve to say he wasn't holding back immensely?