Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2015-2016] - Discussion and TOC Talk

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Silverblade

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Toriko's anime was not well received and we all know that. It did little for the manga and messed up whatever potential Toriko had as a franchise.
Toriko anime basically created whatever franchise there is - it doubled the manga sales and took it to the top of the industry - two years later it still comfortably remains in the top 50. Is that what internet manga analysts call "doing little" nowadays?
 

Tamil

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Think when he means mixed reception, he means the anime. Toriko's anime was not well received and we all know that. It did little for the manga and messed up whatever potential Toriko had as a franchise.
Again, I agree with what people say. I don't think people would be able to take in BC for too long.

Irrespective of how BC does, I really hope BnHA does much better. At least touch 800k to 1 million.
Toriko was well received and had good TV ratings. It didn't mess up the potential of the franchise but gave it a significant boost. To the point where Toriko is a bigger franchise than some franchise that have higher manga sales than Toriko. Ignore what justice it did to the manga since that's irrelevant in this discussion.
 

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Toriko anime basically created whatever franchise there is - it doubled the manga sales and took it to the top of the industry - two years later it still comfortably remains in the top 50. Is that what internet manga analysts call "doing little" nowadays?
I think that for WSJ just being in Top 50 is not considered enough. A lot of Manga that are considered "average" by WSJ would be considered a very good seller by other mags.

In any case, the thing about Toriko is that it plummeted. Years ago, it used to be in Top 3 all the time and many thought that it was the new Naruto, One Piece or whatever you want to call it. So when it's fame fell down, a lot of people started feeling like the fall was worse than it actually is.
 

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Man, it's always sad to see World Trigger get cover and center color since they're always so boring.
Also, here's the color preview page for Jump Giga:
 

chrisbj

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RafaFedKilla

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I need Jump Giga now!
 

iceemperor

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Hero academia has reached 5.2 million copies


This is even more underwhelming than I had thought. I thought it might hit 6m by this time.
 

101nemesis

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Toriko was well received and had good TV ratings. It didn't mess up the potential of the franchise but gave it a significant boost. To the point where Toriko is a bigger franchise than some franchise that have higher manga sales than Toriko. Ignore what justice it did to the manga since that's irrelevant in this discussion.
Toriko anime basically created whatever franchise there is - it doubled the manga sales and took it to the top of the industry - two years later it still comfortably remains in the top 50. Is that what internet manga analysts call "doing little" nowadays?
Toriko was promoted like the next big thing in WSJ. It's sales however showed very little signs of that. It peaked in 2011-2012 and then started dropping with about 40k-70k (give or take) being reduced each year(from the peak 550k initial print for it's volume). Anime got ratings partially because of the timeslot. If the anime was so popular, whatever happened to the poor to average performance of the movie? Ever since the movie released, the promotions and boost Toriko has been getting in WSJ reduced considerably. I would say that the movie was the last chance Toriko got to push itself up.

I'd argue that Toriko had a decently sized Franchise but I would also say that's part of the push Toriko got from WSJ. If it was indeed a big hit on TV, then they would not have stopped it, irrespective of what they did to the story since they were aiming for kids with the anime.
 

iceemperor

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It's still a decent boost nonetheless
If they make a second season it'll reach the standards we've all expected
This boost pales in comparison to previous nichigo series. Most of the boost will primarily occur in the first season, around the beginning of the first cour, usually up to about episode 7ish. By then you should have hooked in a significant portion of people. A second season will not do as much as you would expect. Very few serried have had even bigger boosts in their second season
 

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Chalk it up to WSJ being terrible decision makers, I guess? Seriously, the hell....

With the manga's popularity in polls, you would think they'd try to be very careful in handling the series' popularity, but nooooo...... They should've known way ahead the Studio would've been stretched too thin if they released it this year.
 

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Hero academia has reached 5.2 million copies


This is even more underwhelming than I had thought. I thought it might hit 6m by this time.
Around episode 8 of the anime

Taizai 1-11 8million
Haikyuu 1-11 7million
Magi 1-15 7.1million
 

UFOCat

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So how long do you think Takuan and Batsu will last? I give it 2 volumes before it's cancelled.
 

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So how long do you think Takuan and Batsu will last? I give it 2 volumes before it's cancelled.
Jump is far too crowded right now for it to catch on.
All of the other newish series are popular enough that they aren't in danger of immediate cancellation, and the bottom rankers are all long-runners that are supposed to be ending soon anyways.

It'll probably wrap up along with Toriko and Nisekoi.
 

ShenGao

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So how long do you think Takuan and Batsu will last? I give it 2 volumes before it's cancelled.
Can they even afford to cancel any of the new series right now? Toriko and Nisekoi look like they could both end in less than 2 months. HxH could go back into Hiatus at any moment without warning.
 

Bigivelfhq

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Toriko was promoted like the next big thing in WSJ. It's sales however showed very little signs of that. It peaked in 2011-2012 and then started dropping with about 40k-70k (give or take) being reduced each year(from the peak 550k initial print for it's volume). Anime got ratings partially because of the timeslot. If the anime was so popular, whatever happened to the poor to average performance of the movie? Ever since the movie released, the promotions and boost Toriko has been getting in WSJ reduced considerably. I would say that the movie was the last chance Toriko got to push itself up.

I'd argue that Toriko had a decently sized Franchise but I would also say that's part of the push Toriko got from WSJ. If it was indeed a big hit on TV, then they would not have stopped it, irrespective of what they did to the story since they were aiming for kids with the anime.
Your rationale is faulty!

First Toriko was a big thing in the magazine, but it wasn't in the volumes. The promotion it got was because of that, just like Black Clover. Is important to note that the magazine alone makes more money than the sales of all the volumes together.
Also to note that like Togashi, that has special treatment because it made Yu Yu Hakusho that was one of the pillars of the magazine before, Shimabukuro also got that special treatment by being also one of the pillars of the magazine with Leader Den Takeshi. Also the fact that the mangaka started at the exact same time as Eichiro Oda(Leader Den Takeshi began 1 issue before One Piece). That, and the fact the worlds of both series are likewise crazy and the anime in the same animation studio, is the reason of the crossovers(both manga and anime).

The volumes never sold that much, in reality that is an aspect of Shimabukuro works, they are really popular with kids in the magazine(And that is way Toriko anime was targeted to them), but they don't really sell that much in volume form.
The becoming a Naruto and One Piece is a stupid western way of thinking, a business man has to be a retarded to expect that a series performing how it was performing would get the jump to reach those series.
Also while the timeslot matter, if a series is not well received, it doesn't matter the timeslot it will get bad ranking, look at Denpa Kyoshi, got a timeslot way better than that of Toriko and ranked horrible, rarely even appearing in the Top 10.
Also the series in 2011 reached the Top 100 character Merchandise in position 86 with 19.9 Billion Yen. Majority of Jump titles and other magazines title, for that matter, don't reach this top. Toriko wasn't a explosion of popularity, but saying it was a flop is also wrong.
The reason the series ended was because Toei was bringing a way more popular series. Dragon Ball. There is not even comparison in terms of the series popularity, Dragon Ball was in expansion at that moment and the always(I believe) was bigger than Naruto as a franchise.

Here is the print data of Toriko before the anime and a comparison with big series(like One Piece, Naruto and Bleach):

17,000,000 - One Piece volume 1-11
16,899,000 - Hunter x Hunter volume 1-10
12,000,000 - Naruto volume 1-13
10,000,000 - Bleach volume 1-14
*5,500,000 -. Toriko volume 1-13
*4,200,000 - Toriko volume 1-10
*3,500,000 - Toriko volume 1-9
*1,300,000 - Toriko volume 1-4
*1,000,000 - Toriko volume 1-3

Still after the anime it jumped from
*8,000,000 - Toriko volume 1-14 (Jumped 2,600,000 Million copies in an additional volume)
and later
12,000,000 - Toriko volume 1-18 (The series needed 13 volumes to get to 5.5 Million copies in print without anime, but with the anime it only needed 5 more volumes, 2.6 times faster).
 

Xzone

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Around episode 8 of the anime

Taizai 1-11 8million
Haikyuu 1-11 7million
Magi 1-15 7.1million
Arround the same without the 9 volume sales, and without a "Zabuza arc" in the anime (an arc who make you into the series)

Your rationale is faulty!

First Toriko was a big thing in the magazine, but it wasn't in the volumes. The promotion it got was because of that, just like Black Clover. Is important to note that the magazine alone makes more money than the sales of all the volumes together.
Also to note that like Togashi, that has special treatment because it made Yu Yu Hakusho that was one of the pillars of the magazine before, Shimabukuro also got that special treatment by being also one of the pillars of the magazine with Leader Den Takeshi. Also the fact that the mangaka started at the exact same time as Eichiro Oda(Leader Den Takeshi began 1 issue before One Piece). That, and the fact the worlds of both series are likewise crazy and the anime in the same animation studio, is the reason of the crossovers(both manga and anime).

The volumes never sold that much, in reality that is an aspect of Shimabukuro works, they are really popular with kids in the magazine(And that is way Toriko anime was targeted to them), but they don't really sell that much in volume form.
The becoming a Naruto and One Piece is a stupid western way of thinking, a business man has to be a retarded to expect that a series performing how it was performing would get the jump to reach those series.
Also while the timeslot matter, if a series is not well received, it doesn't matter the timeslot it will get bad ranking, look at Denpa Kyoshi, got a timeslot way better than that of Toriko and ranked horrible, rarely even appearing in the Top 10.
Also the series in 2011 reached the Top 100 character Merchandise in position 86 with 19.9 Billion Yen. Majority of Jump titles and other magazines title, for that matter, don't reach this top. Toriko wasn't a explosion of popularity, but saying it was a flop is also wrong.
The reason the series ended was because Toei was bringing a way more popular series. Dragon Ball. There is not even comparison in terms of the series popularity, Dragon Ball was in expansion at that moment and the always(I believe) was bigger than Naruto as a franchise.

Here is the print data of Toriko before the anime and a comparison with big series(like One Piece, Naruto and Bleach):

17,000,000 - One Piece volume 1-11
16,899,000 - Hunter x Hunter volume 1-10
12,000,000 - Naruto volume 1-13
10,000,000 - Bleach volume 1-14
*5,500,000 -. Toriko volume 1-13
*4,200,000 - Toriko volume 1-10
*3,500,000 - Toriko volume 1-9
*1,300,000 - Toriko volume 1-4
*1,000,000 - Toriko volume 1-3

Still after the anime it jumped from
*8,000,000 - Toriko volume 1-14 (Jumped 2,600,000 Million copies in an additional volume)
and later
12,000,000 - Toriko volume 1-18 (The series needed 13 volumes to get to 5.5 Million copies in print without anime, but with the anime it only needed 5 more volumes, 2.6 times faster).
Only see a anime Hype bost, and not a great one(like BnH or Souma, also a worse one), if we talk about bussines (real , not the shit we are talking about toriko, BnH and other in the last days) it's a very bad move, it has a decent bost and slowy his anime hype die and sell worse, if I'm a EiC I won't call that a succes, because I fucked up a oportunity to have more money.
I sorta agree with the magazine , we see it with HZ and other 20k club , but still don't thing it was a popular enought to sell magazine, people buy jump because OP, Naruto and echii , and Kid not buy a magazine because it had toriko. When I was children we watch cartoon aleatory but very few time a specific one, that the same, kid buy jump and eat the series , not toriko or Boku no hero academia or Black clover.
 

Bigivelfhq

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Arround the same without the 9 volume sales, and without a "Zabuza arc" in the anime (an arc who make you into the series)


Only see a anime Hype bost, and not a great one(like BnH or Souma, also a worse one), if we talk about bussines (real , not the shit we are talking about toriko, BnH and other in the last days) it's a very bad move, it has a decent bost and slowy his anime hype die and sell worse, if I'm a EiC I won't call that a succes, because I fucked up a oportunity to have more money.
I sorta agree with the magazine , we see it with HZ and other 20k club , but still don't thing it was a popular enought to sell magazine, people buy jump because OP, Naruto and echii , and Kid not buy a magazine because it had toriko. When I was children we watch cartoon aleatory but very few time a specific one, that the same, kid buy jump and eat the series , not toriko or Boku no hero academia or Black clover.
I don't know what you're talking about, for now My Hero Academia got a boost of 111k copies per volume in its first volume into the anime, Shokugeki no Soma got a 35k boost. While Toriko got a 179k copies per volume boost instead. So it was bigger!

Rarely anime series live more than 1 year. You getting 3 entire years of a series sales, while producing it, and than still getting revenue from it while you not producing nothing(even if way less than before), is in no way a bad move. In a business expecting that everything is a huge success is a really wrong way to do things. Toei Animation is the animation studio with the most mega popular series, and even them have a ton of series with just 1 year or less. A series like Dr. Slump that endured 5 years the first time, like Dragon Ball that endured 11 years andOne Piece with 17 years, aren't the norm, and in a business perspective it shouldn't be expected that any work do such a thing.

Toriko at its peak was being constantly ranking in 3rd and 4th position in the ranking. Of course a ton of people was also buying the magazine because of it. Just like now people are also buying the magazine because of My Hero Academia and Black Clover.
People like this series and so one of the reasons they buy it is to read what they like, the series!
 

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Your rationale is faulty!

First Toriko was a big thing in the magazine, but it wasn't in the volumes. The promotion it got was because of that, just like Black Clover. Is important to note that the magazine alone makes more money than the sales of all the volumes together.

The volumes never sold that much, in reality that is an aspect of Shimabukuro works, they are really popular with kids in the magazine(And that is way Toriko anime was targeted to them), but they don't really sell that much in volume form.
Isnt selling close to half a million per volume a lot though? I dont know how well Shimabukuro's previous work sold in volumes but Toriko sold well.

Btw, is the Toriko anime put on hiatus or cancelled? Any hopes of OVA/reboot/continuation for Toriko in the future or is it slim at this point? By future, I also mean when the Toriko manga is over.
 
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Nayrael

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I know My Hero Academia is pretty big in Japan but is Black Clover popular there?
It gets high rankings every week but you can't completely trust those results since the editors could easily be changing them.
The Editors won't increase the rank every week. Even the Manga done by big-name Mangaka don't get such a fancy treatment. If the Manga regularly rotates around the same spot, we can freely take that as its current level of popularity.
 

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Isnt selling close to half a million per volume a lot though? I dont know how well Shimabukuro's previous work sold in volumes but Toriko sold well.

Btw, is the Toriko anime put on hiatus or cancelled? Any hopes of OVA/reboot/continuation for Toriko in the future or is it slim at this point? By future, I also mean when the Toriko manga is over.
It is a lot, but in comparison with other series that were ranking in similar positions it way behind. Is other series Leader Den Takeshi, was one of the pillars of Jump at the same time of One Piece beginning, and the info we got is that printed 8 Million copies in around 24 volumes. So around 333k per volume. Though is also important to note that it was a Comedy/gag manga.

The anime ended. If it will return(and so hiatus) is anybody guess. The chances it return though are very very slim at this point, because Dragon Ball is doing incredible well, right now. And after Dragon Ball is probable that Toei will pick a new anime, or invest in some Legendary old one, just like they are right now doing Tiger Mask.
 
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