Quarterfinal God Serena vs Natsu Dragneel

[VongolaX10]

Natsu no argument for Serena in this thread

 

[SirSamuel016]

Wait what? That was not the only thing I stated. No matter, it actually does proof that God Serena is stronger than Natsu. There can only be one strongest mage from Ishgar, which is God Serena. Facts are facts.



What's a lake compared to a tsunami? There is a huge difference between these two.

It seems pretty obvious that Natsu's body heat can't evaporate a tsunami lol.



Then Natsu will concentrate on dodging Cave Dragon's Spell while God Serena will spam another attack. Just as easy as it is said.



And what is Erigor's Wind Magic compared to God Serena's Gale Dragon's Spell?



Then why did you and a lot others break this rule against Mirajane?



And saying that he can't eat Natsu's flames is also a speculation.



A lake is nothing compared to a tsunami.

A breeze is nothing compared to a hurricane.

Enough said.

1. That is not a tsunami, its a wave. There's a big difference between the two, if it was a tsunami, it would've been on a much bigger scale. The attack is still tiny compared to the lake, so yes, Natsu would be able to evaporate that 'tsunami'.
2. Even if Natsu is dodging, he can still attack with a roar or another ranged attack. Just because he is avoiding an attack doesn't mean he's unable to attack.
3. The comparison was regarding how Natsu dispelled Erigor's storm mail, not to God Serena's attack. The comparison was touching on the dispelling of the magic and nothing else.
4. Thats off-topic, I don't see how Mirajane is applicable here.
5. My point which I made previously is still valid as God Serena doesn't have any evidence of being able to eat an element. If he was, he would've taken a bite out of Jura's attacks to power up his Cavern Dragon magic, but he didn't. He didn't resist Jura's earth attacks either which add to my point on Serena not having resistances to the elements he can use to attack either.

If you've got evidence to prove your points, go ahead and show me. I've given you my theories and shown you that God Serena's wave is nothing compared to the lake near Magnolia in size, so I don't see why you think your points are absolute. 'Strongest mage in Ishgal' is a farce, Acnologia is from Ishgal and look what he did to Serena.

 

[Char]

Thanks for this versus.

I will vote for God Serena, mid difficulty at most.

Let us not forget how chaotically messed up power scales have turned out to be after the Tartaros arc. How can one year of training account for Natsu, not even being WS tier and most likely below Makarov during Tartaros, becoming a high Saint Tier (probably Hyberion tier, if not above, as many of you claim)?

It simply can't be, it makes no sense. If God Serena is 30 years old, and we can safely assume that by his looks; he's the most powerful wizard of a continent and he has had more time to train and gain experience, how could we say Natsu, Erza or Gray, who are not even 20, have reached his level?

There must be some limits to "training" and to "potential" and one year of training cannot simply justify breaking with these standards and becoming an entity above any other. I mean, imagine if you give Natsu another year of training, does he become world level? next year he is galaxy level and next, universe level? Nope. Shouldn't/doesn't work that way.

I think the GoI were portrayed as absurdly powerful characters, from which GMG Jura was extremely far away. Like, there was a massive gap. GMG Natsu is NOT Jura tier, he is below; but after that year of training he's become as powerful or more poweful than 4x GMG Jura (in the event Jura didn't train)? Nope...

For me, the 3 GoI + Jura are >>>> current base Natsu. 3 GoI + Jura are >> FDKM Natsu. Maybe 3 GoI + Jura = DF Natsu. But Natsu hasn't awakened his DF in the Alvarez arc so we cannot know for sure.

Assuming God Serena >> 3 GoI + Jura, then GS >>>> Natsu. So, in my head, Natsu loses, all possible scenarios. God Serena has more MP, more versatile attacks, most likely more poweful attacks (since he wasn't serious), and he must be a better hand to hand combatant. He can counter fire with more fire or with water, or combining water and wind and whatnot; he can also most likely eat fire and power up. Serena MIGHT also have a DF we're not aware of. So IMO, he wins mid difficulty at most

 

[The President]

It simply can't be, it makes no sense. If God Serena is 30 years old, and we can safely assume that by his looks; he's the most powerful wizard of a continent and he has had more time to train and gain experience, how could we say Natsu, Erza or Gray, who are not even 20, have reached his level?

There must be some limits to "training" and to "potential" and one year of training cannot simply justify breaking with these standards and becoming an entity above any other. I mean, imagine if you give Natsu another year of training, does he become world level? next year he is galaxy level and next, universe level? Nope. Shouldn't/doesn't work that way.

This is textbook argument from incredulity and you aren't the only one doing it here. This is a fictional world created by hiromashima, he could do whatever the hell he wants and we have feats that dictate that it can, in fact, be. With all due respect here, your disbelief at the possibility does not serve as any sort of evidence to oppose actual feats.

Your 'age' argument doesn't work either, different characters grow differently at different times. Natsu can reach his power cap at the age of 20 while Serena could reach his at 30, it depends on the person. Natsu is likely close to his base power cap (still has potential for DF though) while Serena likely reached his power cap quite some time ago.

Nope...

Spoiler

Yep.

 

[Brandish μ]

There must be some limits to "training" and to "potential" and one year of training cannot simply justify breaking with these standards and becoming an entity above any other. I mean, imagine if you give Natsu another year of training, does he become world level? next year he is galaxy level and next, universe level? Nope. Shouldn't/doesn't work that way.

This is a contentious topic. How much do we know about the progression of power, or how power should increase? I can understand the concept of limitations and standards, because that's a reasonable thing to expect. I certainly didn't expect Natsu to come back as strong as he did after 1 year. But, he did. Regardless of what I thought, Hiro decided to skew the power inflation so hard that previous progressions of power were very small compared to the X791-2 inflation. It's basically a plot thing. Even if we find it irrational, it is still what Hiro chose. So it should be assumed that it is possible that Natsu Dragneel can improve as much as he did over 1 year with intense training (no one else has improved as much as him). How strong you think he is now depends on your judgement of his feats.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 11, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 11, 2016 ---

On the point about age too... we seen TO-Sherria who looked about 20. TO gave her all her potential. This doesn't mean that she was extremely powerful like a Spriggan, it just meant her magic matured at that point of time in the future. This doesn't prove that everyone reaches their prime at 20, but it sure prove it is possible to be that young and in your prime.

 

[Arjuna]

Thanks for this versus.

I will vote for God Serena, mid difficulty at most.

Let us not forget how chaotically messed up power scales have turned out to be after the Tartaros arc. How can one year of training account for Natsu, not even being WS tier and most likely below Makarov during Tartaros, becoming a high Saint Tier (probably Hyberion tier, if not above, as many of you claim)?

It simply can't be, it makes no sense. If God Serena is 30 years old, and we can safely assume that by his looks; he's the most powerful wizard of a continent and he has had more time to train and gain experience, how could we say Natsu, Erza or Gray, who are not even 20, have reached his level?

There must be some limits to "training" and to "potential" and one year of training cannot simply justify breaking with these standards and becoming an entity above any other. I mean, imagine if you give Natsu another year of training, does he become world level? next year he is galaxy level and next, universe level? Nope. Shouldn't/doesn't work that way.

I think the GoI were portrayed as absurdly powerful characters, from which GMG Jura was extremely far away. Like, there was a massive gap. GMG Natsu is NOT Jura tier, he is below; but after that year of training he's become as powerful or more poweful than 4x GMG Jura (in the event Jura didn't train)? Nope...

For me, the 3 GoI + Jura are >>>> current base Natsu. 3 GoI + Jura are >> FDKM Natsu. Maybe 3 GoI + Jura = DF Natsu. But Natsu hasn't awakened his DF in the Alvarez arc so we cannot know for sure.

Assuming God Serena >> 3 GoI + Jura, then GS >>>> Natsu. So, in my head, Natsu loses, all possible scenarios. God Serena has more MP, more versatile attacks, most likely more poweful attacks (since he wasn't serious), and he must be a better hand to hand combatant. He can counter fire with more fire or with water, or combining water and wind and whatnot; he can also most likely eat fire and power up. Serena MIGHT also have a DF we're not aware of. So IMO, he wins mid difficulty at most

Take a look at the purgatory dragon spell and compare it to the Flame Dragon King Roar Natsu used in chapter 463.

Spoiler: Purgatory Dragon's Infernal Hell

Spoiler: Flame Dragon King's Roar

Comparing those, its pretty clear that Flame Dragon King's Roar is much more impressive a spell than the Purgatory Dragon's Infernal Hell. Not only does the Roar look a lot stronger, its also a lot bigger, so it has that going for it too.If his spells are stronger why can't he do the same to GOI.His spells have also better feats.One demolition fist defeated a Spriggan.And Serena needed 2+unknown no. of spells to take down mages below a Spriggan level.His 1 year training puts him in high tier Spriggan level in FDKM.In his base state he was able to match Ajeel who is stronger than Hyberion.And most important of all after Natsu's attacks the entire ground vanished i don't see Serena doing this.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Do people not understand that Natsu's growth rate is wayyy higher than any of the GoI. By saying it makes no sense for Natsu to be that strong so quick is assuming he has a low growth rate.

 

[Tirl]

Laxus is weaker than Natsu, Cobra is weaker than Natsu.

Laxus was stronger than Natsu always and now.
Cobra was stronger than Natsu and use cheat ability.
No way Natsu is stronger that them now in what he show us. Maybe in END (only if he take new part of magic power).

 

[SirSamuel016]

Laxus was stronger than Natsu always and now.
Cobra was stronger than Natsu and use cheat ability.
No way Natsu is stronger that them now in what he show us. Maybe in END (only if he take new part of magic power).

Not to go too off-topic with this, but I can't disagree more. Cobra has shown nothing to put him on Natsu's level now, so he definitely isn't stronger than him. As for Laxus, I'd agree that Laxus is stronger than Base Natsu, but when it comes to FDKM, I have to disagree and say Natsu is stronger there.

 

[AstonishingSpiderMan]

Laxus was stronger than Natsu always and now.
Cobra was stronger than Natsu and use cheat ability.
No way Natsu is stronger that them now in what he show us. Maybe in END (only if he take new part of magic power).

The only argument you have for Laxus being stronger is that he was already fighting when Natsu fought him. But after that it's not even remotely true, let's just look at the most recent arc, Natsu once he wasn't restricted because he didn't want to destroy the guild 1 shot Jacob, Laxus struggled and needed an asspull of all asspulls to defeat Wahl.

Cobra was stronger when? He was only more arrogant than Natsu but that doesn't make him stronger.

Natsu has an END form?

 

[GokuSSJG]

Laxus struggled against someone who is immune to his powers and he was sick. if he wasn't then Wahl would have been quickly stomped and Natsu also got some ass pulls in the past. Natsu was restricted, true, but so was Jacob and he was outmatched in the end and it wasn't a one shot. he was hit multiple times by Lucy, Loke, Natsu, Makarov and Makarov threw Natsu at high speed and Natsu finished him off with FDKM. Laxus is stronger than Natsu. he is AGAIN removed from a war.

 

[Crimson Ice]

The only argument you have for Laxus being stronger is that he was already fighting when Natsu fought him. But after that it's not even remotely true, let's just look at the most recent arc, Natsu once he wasn't restricted because he didn't want to destroy the guild 1 shot Jacob, Laxus struggled and needed an asspull of all asspulls to defeat Wahl.

Cobra was stronger when? He was only more arrogant than Natsu but that doesn't make him stronger.

Natsu has an END form?

Stop, just stop. Laxus while sick was casually about to fuck up Ajeel and kept up with Wahl. Laxus had multiple handicaps against him and when one of them was lifted he basically one shot Ajeel, Laxus' win wasn't BS if anything Natsu's win was, Happy randomly appearing between Jacob's hand to stop him from using transport on Natsu.......Okay

Cobra was stronger than Natsu in the Oricion Seis arc and the Starry Sky arc (it was implied the events happened in the manga)

 

[AstonishingSpiderMan]

Laxus struggled against someone who is immune to his powers and he was sick. if he wasn't then Wahl would have been quickly stomped and Natsu also got some ass pulls in the past. Natsu was restricted, true, but so was Jacob and he was outmatched in the end and it wasn't a one shot. he was hit multiple times by Lucy, Loke, Natsu, Makarov and Makarov threw Natsu at high speed and Natsu finished him off with FDKM.

Stop, just stop. Laxus while sick was casually about to fuck up Ajeel and kept up with Wahl. Laxus had multiple handicaps against him and when one of them was lifted he basically one shot Ajeel, Laxus' win wasn't BS if anything Natsu's win was, Happy randomly appearing between Jacob's hand to stop him from using transport Natsu.......Okay

The only handicap Laxus had against Wahl was the poison he had from the Tartarus arc. I also see you forget that Natsu straight destroyed the quick sand Ajeel threw everyone in? Or how he was going to attack but Makarov stopped him?

Now Natsu vs Jacob, let's see he was out for the count because of the magic cancer, he couldnt attack Jacob full on because the guild mates would die, he didn't want to destroy the last safe house, the main base of the war operations, so he used lite attacks like his kick and punches. You ignore all that, but even with you ignoring that Natsu with 1 punch ko-ed Jacob, what did laxus do? magically was taught to use the runes of freed, some how knew his ancestors finishing move and you consider Natsu to have an asspull win? What a guy.

Cobra was stronger than Natsu in the Oricion Seis arc and the Starry Sky arc (it was implied the events happened in the manga)

Oh we are using implied events now? I'm pretty sure Rule 5 means it has to be shown in the panels of the manga not implied.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Oh we are using implied events now? I'm pretty sure Rule 5 means it has to be shown in the panels of the manga not implied.

That's in regards to the tournament, Cobra being stronger than Natsu has nothing to do with that.

 

[GokuSSJG]

all I'm saying is that God Serena would win due to his variety in DS magic. it would be a close match, extreme difficulty but GS takes this one. Natsu would won with DF though.

 

[Tirl]

Take a look at the purgatory dragon spell and compare it to the Flame Dragon King Roar Natsu used in chapter 463.

Roar is a massive aoe attack when Serena's attack was just a punch like Natsu's fist. You compare different spells.

Not to go too off-topic with this, but I can't disagree more. Cobra has shown nothing to put him on Natsu's level now, so he definitely isn't stronger than him. As for Laxus, I'd agree that Laxus is stronger than Base Natsu, but when it comes to FDKM, I have to disagree and say Natsu is stronger there.

The only argument you have for Laxus being stronger is that he was already fighting when Natsu fought him. But after that it's not even remotely true, let's just look at the most recent arc, Natsu once he wasn't restricted because he didn't want to destroy the guild 1 shot Jacob, Laxus struggled and needed an asspull of all asspulls to defeat Wahl.

Cobra was stronger when? He was only more arrogant than Natsu but that doesn't make him stronger.

Natsu has an END form?

Laxus didnt lose to Natsu and Gajeel in past, Laxus didnt lose to Jura who train 7 years while Lax was in Fairy sphere and Jura was much stronger than Natsu in past. Laxus simply one-two shot a demon from Tartaros when Natsu must use his all power to stay alive. Laxus oneshot two spriggans (one of them has high def), when Natsu use his strongest mode to oneshot Jacob who has not high def. Now - Natsu is nothing fo Laxus - and nothing for Serena.
Some offtopic
Natsu didnt lose to Cobra and didnt deal some damage even with scream. Now we didnt see Cobra's power but in past Natsu was below him.

And why you all think that Serena cant eat Natsu's flame? All DS can eat their element (Natsu, Silver, Wendy, Gajjel, Cobra, Laxus (he absorb lightning)).
And even Serena will not eat Natsu's flame, he still can eat WIND, EARTS and ... water?? If he find water))

Natsu has high stamina but vs mage like Serena he has not a chanse.

Natsu has an END form?

I think no, but Natsu should fight with Acno, he must have new power bs now Natsu is not Acno lvl. He is not Laxus lvl. Natsu equal more spriggan, but not above them.

 

[Kay3795]

We've been through this already in another VS thread. Natsu's power is like a single tsar bomba while Serena is like 8 atomic bombs. It's cool that Serena has got 8 other bombs at his disposal, but they're still completely and utterly Incomparable to Natsu's due to the gapping disparity in the destructive force Serena's 8 - smaller - bombs has in comparison to Natsu's only - larger - bomb.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 11, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 11, 2016 ---

Take a look at the purgatory dragon spell and compare it to the Flame Dragon King Roar Natsu used in chapter 463.

Spoiler: Purgatory Dragon's Infernal Hell

Spoiler: Flame Dragon King's Roar

Comparing those, its pretty clear that Flame Dragon King's Roar is much more impressive a spell than the Purgatory Dragon's Infernal Hell. Not only does the Roar look a lot stronger, its also a lot bigger, so it has that going for it too.If his spells are stronger why can't he do the same to GOI.His spells have also better feats.One demolition fist defeated a Spriggan.And Serena needed 2+unknown no. of spells to take down mages below a Spriggan level.His 1 year training puts him in high tier Spriggan level in FDKM.In his base state he was able to match Ajeel who is stronger than Hyberion.And most important of all after Natsu's attacks the entire ground vanished i don't see Serena doing this.

Forgot about this feat actually. The more I look at it, the more I'm convinced that this straightforward match-up -- which has zero gimmick to it like haxx space displacement, time manipulation, blah blah etc -- is decisively concluding in Natsu's victory.

 

[The President]

all I'm saying is that God Serena would win due to his variety in DS magic. it would be a close match, extreme difficulty but GS takes this one. Natsu would won with DF though.

Variety wouldn't help much here. Variety is more useful when he is facing multiple opponents. As for DF, DF Natsu would downright stomp Serena. We've seen how much of a boost it gave Gajeel and base Gajeel is likely weaker then base Natsu.

Roar is a massive aoe attack when Serena's attack was just a punch like Natsu's fist. You compare different spells.

Here is the same type of spell.

Spoiler

 

[Tirl]

Here is the same type of spell.

And? It is just a punch. Serena's punch was much stronger than that embarras. Natsu just kick Jacob. His attack on God of War was more same with Serena's punch

 

[The President]

And? It is just punch. Serena's punch was much stronger than that embarras. Natsu just kick Jacob. His attack on God of War was more same with Serena's punch

Thats the exact same attack as the one used on the god mate. And it is clearly leagues above Serenas attack. Not only is the destruction hundreds of times larger then Serenas attack, but it destroyed Jacob (who had not taken a lot of damage prior) while Serenas attack wasn't even close to taking out an injured Jura.