Final Jellal Fernandes vs Natsu Dragneel

[~Charging Lightning~]

"The water in the lake just evaporated." just means that the water evaporated. They could have left out "...in the lake..." and it means the same thing. The fact that it never indicated that all of it or the entire/whole lake evaporated is key.

I see what you're trying to say but at that moment, there shouldn't be any water in the gap. Not only is Natsu's heat still present, but look at Jacob. He is flying at incredible speed. Think of a plane flying over the ocean. It creates trough and the water only flows back when it is gone. Except this is way faster and more extreme. Also, there is no animation so it looks still when in fact it was drawn at the exact moment there was no water.

Well, yes, there is a significant difference in saying the entire lake was evaporating or just a part of it. Just because it was stated that the water was indeed separating, we can't assume that the AoE covered the whole lake if you know what I'm trying to say. All we saw in the panels as that a part of it evaporated so although I don't deny that it happened, I do deny that the AoE was the size of the whole lake.

I believe Jet and Droy were just surprised at the fact that Natsu's flames are hot enough to evaporate regular water. They didn't witness Natsu melting the GMG so the only one who shouldn't be surprised is Lucy.

We'll see better in the anime but I still find it hard to believe that Natsu evaporated the whole lake. Otherwise, it would be close to city level AoE...

I interpret that statement differently than you do, so I'm agreeing to dissagree with you.

Jellal tanked DF Natsu on DF. What makes you think his DF would affect him now if they both gotten stronger?

This is a joke right? Go re-read the fight. DF Natsu defeated Jellal with FOUR attacks. Attacks that were all un-named. I'm willing to give current Jellal the benefit of the doubt and say that he won't be defeated as easily as he was in the ToH though.

 

[Solitrine]

Jellal's hit from Neinhart is also a non-factor in trying to find durability (especially considering it is an obvious plot device). He took a hit from the back, lost his breath from that, sent to the bottom of the lake where he got caught under the anchor, how does that have anything to do with durability? I'm sure characters don't suddenly lose the requirement for oxygen when they get more durable.

I also want to point out that in DF Natsu vs Jellal, that Jellal was still clearly faster than DF Natsu as seen when Jellal is escaping to cast Abyss Break. Jellal had already cast Abyss Break before Natsu was even near him, quite a sizable speed difference.

Spoiler

(I couldn't find a linkable version in English, I have no idea what language that is lmao

DF Natsu is also going to struggle once Jellal decides to take the fight to the air since Jellal has far superior air maneuverability.

This logic is a bit flawed. If we take into account how much fighting Natsu had done before he used DF on Mard, it should be pretty obvious that Natsu was low on MP before he used it... Unless Natsu waits until he's near death in this fight to activate it, he isn't gonna only last a few seconds with DF.

Not really. I never said Natsu would only last one attack like he did against Mard, just that it obviously has a massive MP drain like it has been shown to in the past. By the time that Natsu uses his DF he is going to be nowhere near full MP as it is always used as a last resort, just like the rest of his spells are progressive based on how well he is doing in a fight. It would be out of character for Natsu to go straight into DF as soon as the fight starts.

This is a joke right? Go re-read the fight. DF Natsu defeated Jellal with FOUR attacks. Attacks that were all un-named. I'm willing to give current Jellal the benefit of the doubt and say that he won't be defeated as easily as he was in the ToH though.

Jellal tanked all the DF attacks apart from the last one which hit him through the ToH. Jellal previously took a direct slice from Erza across his stomach and many barrages of Natsu's attacks. It's clear through the panel showing that Erza's slice was affecting him that Jellal was superior to Natsu and the only reason that Natsu won the fight was due to Jellal's previous injuries.

 

[Brandish μ]

I just wanted to post the sema pic lol

Lol showing off. I really want to reel out the unconscious pic of Jellal after a weak Neinhart attack now

As I was mentioning to sam earlier, Jellal is intelligent, he would likely not cast Sema (as, like demolition fist, it eats up energy) if he knew Natsu still had moves to defend it to the point where it would no effect. Assuming Jellal isn't backed into a corner, he seems more inclined to use a Tartarus Cema as a finisher after a direct Alvarez GC hit.

That's true. For moves like Sema, with a small cast time, I would consider these moves as finishers too. It's like saying Makarov will oneshot people with Fairy Law in a fight, most people will hit Makarov while he's casting and not stand there through CiS/PiS.

The only tactical reason (that I see) in which Gerard would cast Sema, would be if Natsu in DF is faster than meteor by a wide margin. From ToH DF, we can agree that it edges out meteor, but not enough for either side to be able to rely on speed alone. It would be an unfavorable fall back option to cast such a wide attack, as GC and ToH Altairis, or Heavenly Blast takes less less energy to use, unless Jellal can't catch or hurt Natsu with his other attacks. (imo)

I agree that Jellal is probably going to adapt to account for DF's speed and maybe Jellal goes for AoE (you're throwing me off here with Gerard lol). The main factor will be that Natsu can now make this fight on equal or his terms rather than have meteor blitz and dictate the range and pace of the fight. If it comes down to CQC then Natsu will have an advantage, but maybe Jellal can endure it and get some licks of his own, and perhaps pull off powerful spells (though this goes both ways).

Physically neither have impressive feats so far, and this will be a factor in a fight with they both use high powered spells. I'd say Natsu would have better endurance, and their durability would be around the same. Jellal would have more MP imo.

 

[SirSamuel016]

I'm referring towards the end of the fight where he was getting hit and beat up by CQC and magic. It wasn't a very drawn out fight, as it wasn't a boss battle, but that what we saw could be extended to throughout the fight and Mashima didn't draw it out. I'm not saying his endurance is higher than Natsu by any means, but it's definitely not his weak point.

And did you not see my picture?? Here let me get for you again.

I didn't know that the Grand Canyon is so large that if you step back you can see the CURVATURE OF THE EARTH.

And DF Natsu DEFEATED Jellal? DRAGON FORCE Natsu even with a 3X POWER UP was about to be blasted to smithereens by Abyss Break. He did overwhelm Jellal, but he by no means came close to defeating him. Exactly like with Laxus, that Natsu "win" wasn't even legitimate.

3X DF by eating etherion + Blocked Altairis spell to kill + Held back to prevent destruction of Etherion Tower + Being unable to finish with Abyss Break does NOT count as a win.

Again, we can only go by what we've seen in the manga as at the end of the day, it is the primary source for canon content. We saw Jellal get hit only a few times and he was getting worn out by it and the constant dodging he had to do. He's taken a few weaker hits from the OS members, and he's been taken out with one shot from Neinhart. His durability isn't that great.

Jellal was defeated by four punches from Dragon Force Natsu. Regardless of what happened in the fight, it only took four punches from Dragon Force Natsu to beat Jellal, so I ask you do you really think Jellal could still fight after taking that many spells, and I mean spells not punches from Natsu in Dragon Force when just four punches has been enough to take him out in the past? Jellal has actually shown nothing that says he's grown over the eight years since ToH, so he could well still well get blown out of the water like last time.

 

[Tirl]

Because Sema totally destroyed stuff in a 1km radius when Jellal dropped it on the Oracion Seis. No, I don't think it would be that widespread. Logic in the real world doesn't exactly work in the Fairy Tail universe as it would here, a regular meteor in the real world would level part of a city even if it was small. A magical meteor on the other hand, aka Sema, would not be as destructive as an actual meteor as we saw when Jellal dropped Sema on Oracion Seis. Sema was nowhere near as destructive as what you're implying, and without any evidence of it being able to be any more destructive than that then we shouldn't assume it can be anymore destructive than that.

And now Natsu will be killed because he'd shatter Sema into nothing with a Flame Dragon King's Demolition Fist? Sema hit the OS members and they weren't killed, so why would Natsu (someone who is stronger than any of those OS members) be killed by it? Thats an absurd claim to make.

I agree with you, magic world is different. I just like to compare it with real world.
OS survived it bs Jellal didnt want to kill them (But I think it is stupid, like more stuff in manga).

So, I agree with you and dont want to argue this. But I already prepared that pic ))

Spoiler: Grand Canyon

Red dot is meteorite 50-100m.
Blue circle is vaporized space. No one weaker than August should may survive it. It is absolute evaporation.
Yellow ellipse is power blast from meteorite and explosion. Almost all wizzards can block\dodge it but normal people will be killed.
Edit.
Wizzard with some block magic can survive. I dont know them but Midnight or shadow\light body is able to dodge it. And Bob (Master of BP) too... maybe.

 

[Rain Cloud]

Lol showing off. I really want to reel out the unconscious pic of Jellal after a weak Neinhart attack now



That's true. For moves like Sema, with a small cast time, I would consider these moves as finishers too. It's like saying Makarov will oneshot people with Fairy Law in a fight, most people will hit Makarov while he's casting and not stand there through CiS/PiS.



I agree that Jellal is probably going to adapt to account for DF's speed and maybe Jellal goes for AoE (you're throwing me off here with Gerard lol). The main factor will be that Natsu can now make this fight on equal or his terms rather than have meteor blitz and dictate the range and pace of the fight. If it comes down to CQC then Natsu will have an advantage, but maybe Jellal can endure it and get some licks of his own, and perhaps pull off powerful spells (though this goes both ways).

Physically neither have impressive feats so far, and this will be a factor in a fight with they both use high powered spells. I'd say Natsu would have better endurance, and their durability would be around the same. Jellal would have more MP imo.

Hold up, lemme go re-watch the Jellal vs. Natsu fight.

https:// youtu. be/cALd4b2V_Xo? t=4m11s (w/o spaces) It should start at a point where Jellal is dominating with MACH speed CQC. In my opinion, even in DF Natsu and Jellal would have some really excellent to watch CQC. The decision not to challenge in CQC with DF Natsu after being overwhelmed (from how I looked at it) was from his being "done" dealing with Natsu and Abyss Break would just finish the fight once and for all. But yeah, Natsu is probably better at CQC than Jellal to a certain degree.

Yeah, you're right.

Again, we can only go by what we've seen in the manga as at the end of the day, it is the primary source for canon content. We saw Jellal get hit only a few times and he was getting worn out by it and the constant dodging he had to do. He's taken a few weaker hits from the OS members, and he's been taken out with one shot from Neinhart. His durability isn't that great.

Jellal was defeated by four punches from Dragon Force Natsu. Regardless of what happened in the fight, it only took four punches from Dragon Force Natsu to beat Jellal, so I ask you do you really think Jellal could still fight after taking that many spells, and I mean spells not punches from Natsu in Dragon Force when just four punches has been enough to take him out in the past? Jellal has actually shown nothing that says he's grown over the eight years since ToH, so he could well still well get blown out of the water like last time.

Jellal was not defeated by four punches from Dragon Force Natsu what are you saying? You keep talking like Natsu beat Jellal. Jellal knocked Natsu away and instead of dealing with his DF with meteor and CQC, like he did at the beginning (*I don't know if it could be on par with his DF speed), he intelligently kicked Natsu away and decided to destroy his stupid tower with everyone in with Abyss Break.

I refuse to concede to the blatantly incorrect notion that Natsu "beat" jellal let alone with four DF punches. I can see why you see Natsu would win now if you're looking at it like that, but Jellal and DF Natsu fought for almost no time. We got DF Natsu looking cool, then Jellal swatting him away like a fly (literally) before succumbing to a wound from Erza. Even WITH a wound I don't see those four DF punches doing jack, Sam.

I agree with you, magic world is different. I just like to compare it with real world.
OS survived it bs Jellal didnt want to kill them (But I think it is stupid, like more stuff in manga).

So, I agree with you and dont want to argue this. But I already prepared that pic ))

Spoiler: Grand Canyon

Red dot is meteorite 50-100m.
Blue circle is vaporized space. No one weaker than August should may survive it. It is absolute evaporation.
Yellow ellipse is power blast from meteorite and explosion. Almost all wizzards can block\dodge it but normal people will be killed.
Edit.
Wizzard with some block magic can survive. I dont know them but Madnight or shadow\light body is able to dodge it. And Bob (Master of BP) too... maybe.

This.

 

[Crimson Ice]

It was like Laxus' nuke. It doesnt small but very smaller than Sema. Sema is meteorite. As I said 50m meteorite can vaporize 1km space. Entirely. If August's spell was even 200m in diameter, Jellal's 50m meteorite will do x9999 times more damage. And his meteorite was bigger than 50m.
Grand Canyon is only one thing that I can bring to compare Sema with.
50m falling ball will destroy 10km city. And I think in manga block or survive Sema can only Acno, August and Iren (Zeref immortal, fuck him). I mean real Sema - real meteorite. Natsu cant destroy it with his fists bs meteorite has huge attack power. When Natsu touch it he instantly will be killed.

Stop, just stop. Jellal's Sema left like a 20M crater with rubble in it which means the area itself wasn't vaporised. While Sema itself didn't even knock out Midnight who had already been hit GC, so saying only Acno and August can block it is just silly.

 

[~Charging Lightning~]

Not really. I never said Natsu would only last one attack like he did against Mard, just that it obviously has a massive MP drain like it has been shown to in the past. By the time that Natsu uses his DF he is going to be nowhere near full MP as it is always used as a last resort, just like the rest of his spells are progressive based on how well he is doing in a fight. It would be out of character for Natsu to go straight into DF as soon as the fight starts.

I agree that Natsu isn't going to use DF from the get go. However, I still think that by the time he uses DF in the fight, he should have plenty mp. Unless Natsu uses up too much of his mp in his base and FDK forms, he should have enough MP to be in DF for a fair amount of time. Natsu isn't going to use attacks repeatedly if he knows they aren't going to work. His somewhat impressive battle smarts make up for him being an idiot on a regular basis. The second he realises that he has to use DF to win, he is probably going to use it.

 

[Hermit]

Okay so the guy who said Natsu was holding back against Lessio,you realize that goes both ways right?Lessio was also holding back since he could have killed Natsu at any moment but getting Lumen Histoire's location was more important to him...he LITERALLY had Natsu helpless in so many panels so that 'Natsu was holding back' argument doesn't work here..

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2016 ---

Lol what does Natsu not being able to negate Jellal's spell have anything to do with anything? Are you telling me that Jellal can negate Natsu's FDK attacks?

Yes,he can,he can counter the Roar with Mirror Water and he can use Meteor to dodge anything Natsu comes at him with in CQC...

 

[Rain Cloud]

Okay so the guy who said Natsu was holding back against Lessio,you realize that goes both ways right?Lessio was also holding back since he could have killed Natsu at any moment but getting Lumen Histoire's location was more important to him...he LITERALLY had Natsu helpless in so many panels so that 'Natsu was holding back' argument doesn't work here..

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2016, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2016 ---

Yes,he can,he can counter the Roar with Mirror Water and he can use Meteor to dodge anything Natsu comes at him with in CQC...

Too true. All Jacob and Neinhart are good for are saying that the Spriggan 12 have horrid durability and are only good for their hax magic.

 

[Hermit]

Too true. All Jacob and Neinhart are good for are saying that the Spriggan 12 have horrid durability and are only good for their hax magic.

Actually,I can concede with NeinHart having horrible durability since he was taken out by a single attack,but I'm annoyed seeing people saying that Natsu one shotted Lessio.If that was a one shot then what the duck did he do to BlueNote?Zero shot him?Lol..
It's overstating Natsu and understating Lessio horribly...

 

[Jellal.S.N]

But guys remember, DF is not restricted but only Tartaros DF comes into consideration as there are no feats post timeskip. I honestly feel current FDKM better and will actually give Jellal lot of trouble. So yea, Natsu can use DF at his will but feats will be from Tartaros due to lack of feats.

 

[Boomburst]

Okay so the guy who said Natsu was holding back against Lessio,you realize that goes both ways right?Lessio was also holding back since he could have killed Natsu at any moment but getting Lumen Histoire's location was more important to him...he LITERALLY had Natsu helpless in so many panels so that 'Natsu was holding back' argument doesn't work here..

Yea but if you think about it the only reason Jacob even had Natsu helpless was BECAUSE Natsu was holding back. If Natsu had gone all out from the beginning Jacob would have never even had the chance to immobilize him.

 

[BluePegasus]

People who say that Natsu is stronger than Jacob are funny. Seriously, Jacob will just one shot him with Transport which NO ONE can't deny.

Natsu isn't Spriggan tier at all, face it.

As for Jellal, he is able to solo Neinhart but didn't had the chance since he had to save Kagura. If he would be on his own, he'd just cast Grand Chariot and oneshot Neinhart together with the corpses he'll summon. Yeah, if there was someone restricted in his Spriggan fight it was Jellal since Kagura was with him.

And no, Natsu can't solo Neinhart because he'd be his worst nightmare.

Dragon Force. What feat does Dragon Force actually has that it will surpass Jellal? DF Natsu couldn't solo Mard Geer. Didn't Mard Geer lost against Jellal in this tournament? So yeah, we could conclude by this logic that Jellal > Mard Geer > DF Natsu.

Why is DF Natsu overrated like this? DF Natsu's strongest attack isn't even more powerful than DF Sting's Holy Ray or DF Wendy's casual attack. I'll probably get much hate on this, but based on feats I'd say that DF Wendy > DF Natsu.

And I'll ask it one more time (since everybody keeps on talking about Natsu surviving Sema), what would Natsu do against ABYSS BREAK?!?!?!

 

[Hermit]

Yea but if you think about it the only reason Jacob even had Natsu helpless was BECAUSE Natsu was holding back. If Natsu had gone all out from the beginning Jacob would have never even had the chance to immobilize him.

Explain how Natsu would see Lessio if he was using Stealth?Considering the fact he can't even smell him out,I think it's pretty obvious who the superior individual is here

 

[Boomburst]

Explain how Natsu would see Lessio if he was using Stealth?Considering the fact he can't even smell him out,I think it's pretty obvious who the superior individual is here

Well given the AOE of Natsu's attacks I would think invisibility wouldn't really help Jacob much here.

 

[Rain Cloud]

Yea but if you think about it the only reason Jacob even had Natsu helpless was BECAUSE Natsu was holding back. If Natsu had gone all out from the beginning Jacob would have never even had the chance to immobilize him.

Seriously. Lmao.

I just re-read the chapter, and I suggest you do, too.

Jacob demolished Natsu. In Stealth, Jacob has arguably the best Defense in the series that makes up for his lack of endurance (since he never needs it).

You know how Natsu had a shot after getting a beat-down? It was all 100% Lucy. She nullified his Stealth. Then you know who prevented transport? Happy's face.

In this fight, if anything by feats
Lucy > Natsu
Happy's face > FDKM/DF Natsu doesn't matter

Natsu alone would get curbstomped. And honestly, there's no reason Jellal would fare any differently.

 

[Raven]

Natsu was holding back in Jacob's fight, He 1 shot Jacob.. lmao it's funny because the same guys always wants Natsu to lose everytime because of travesty reasons.

 

[Rain Cloud]

Natsu was holding back in Jacob's fight, He 1 shot Jacob.. lmao it's funny because the same guys always wants Natsu to lose everytime because of travesty reasons.

"He 1 shots Jacob"

Love your evidence. Even out in the open, Natsu has no defense for either Stealth or Transport. The reason Jacob would stomp Natsu is not because he's stronger but because his magic is hax.

Their CQC was pretty even, too. Take away Natsu demolition fist and all his other moves to make it even (since that's the equivalent of what was done to Jacob), and then go and speculate if Jacob = Natsu or not.

 

[Raven]

"He 1 shots Jacob"

Love your evidence. Even out in the open, Natsu has no defense for either Stealth or Transport. The reason Jacob would stomp Natsu is not because he's stronger but because his magic is hax.

Natsu has no defence from where you get that ? it's just your assumpations, stop underestimating Natsu