You mentioned there isn't a "hit" or "spell" that took out Natsu out of battle, nothing about oneshots.
Well infact, there were occasions already mentioned here:
so Silver's instant freeze still took out Natsu regardless of him frozen alive or not. It wasn't a oneshot per say but it was enough to render Natsu useless in combat.
Aria's magic sap power was enough to almost took out Natsu, but Natsu got lucky and was saved by Erza.
If I recall correctly, there was some fodder attack that took out Natsu but I can't remember what it was. Will do research on what that was.
well the entire point of the question was durability related so my wording in the originaly phrase was off but i was indeed looking for offensive moves that actually have the purpose of knocking someone unconscious or even dead. Because after all the question was wether or not Natsu could tank one singular Sema. Wether or not he would go down if he was looked at funny right after is a different thing entirely. After all my assumption is that after one Sema Natsu would still stand but the next hit he wouldn't make.
As i edited into my original comment i would disagree. Again Jellal has been taking out by Battle worn Opponents in ToH yes it was 2 and it took a few hits but they were not at full power back then all things considered and he was. So his Durability back then was not great and since he is more Dodge Focussed in his fighting style the assumption is near to say he hasn't grown too much in the durability department so Major Hits from Natsu would actually be almost fatal to him.
well the entire point of the question was durability related so my wording in the originaly phrase was off but i was indeed looking for offensive moves that actually have the purpose of knocking someone unconscious or even dead. Because after all the question was wether or not Natsu could tank one singular Sema. Wether or not he would go down if he was looked at funny right after is a different thing entirely. After all my assumption is that after one Sema Natsu would still stand but the next hit he wouldn't make.
Yes it's more of a wording interpretation that can cause confusion. Had you said something along the lines of "there isn't an spell that has shown to oneshot Natsu in combat that isn't completely reliant on hax", then I would probably have a bit of an agreement to what you said.
Though I will check and do some research on whether there was an attack that took out Natsu or not.
Not sure, as I might have forgotten but didn't Base Jackal oneshot Natsu during their first encounter? Will check that out.
I agree. I don't disagree that we haven't seen Natsu one-shotted in a fight and that's fine. Great, since it serves to support the claim that Natsu has high durability. Same with Jellal. Which is why I advocated earlier that a few hits from either side are not enough to determine a victor -- this would be a Laxus vs. Gajeel/Natsu or Fairy Tail vs. Hades level fight. And dude no, I wouldn't be surprised if was never native american to begin with.
Again, although you've advocated that, I've given you proof that just a few hits from Dragon Force took out Jellal, and again I direct you to the "Dragon Force" chapter where you can see Jellal was defeated with the fourth hit. Talk up Jellal's durability all you like, but as he's shown no actual improvement there at all after the ToH fight, it shouldn't be assumed he's gotten stronger there. Natsu's base mode is able to one-shot Bluenote who is on the level of Gildarts, so its arguable that Base Natsu holding back could replicate the same attack power, perhaps more when using the Flame Dragon King spells. Either way, two hits and a spell like the Demolition Fist in FDKM would be more than enough to put Jellal out of commission from what we've seen.
Again, although you've advocated that, I've given you proof that just a few hits from Dragon Force took out Jellal, and again I direct you to the "Dragon Force" chapter where you can see Jellal was defeated with the fourth hit. Talk up Jellal's durability all you like, but as he's shown no actual improvement there at all after the ToH fight, it shouldn't be assumed he's gotten stronger there. Natsu's base mode is able to one-shot Bluenote who is on the level of Gildarts, so its arguable that Base Natsu holding back could replicate the same attack power, perhaps more when using the Flame Dragon King spells. Either way, two hits and a spell like the Demolition Fist in FDKM would be more than enough to put Jellal out of commission from what we've seen.
I'm sorry, but I'm not taking "as he's shown no actual improvement" seriously. There's been plenty of evidence for that, and almost everyone has agreed that it is ludicrous that ToH Jellal = WS#1 - strongest mage of Ishgar. Almost as ludicrous as your "God Serena can't eat Natsu's flames because otherwise Natsu has no way to win" argument.
Natsu can one-shot Bluenote with his basic DS move. Jellal can one-shot a SPRIGGAN with his basic signature move. Spriggan Tier > Bluenote Tier, nuff said.
I'm sorry, but I'm not taking "as he's shown no actual improvement" seriously. There's been plenty of evidence for that, and almost everyone has agreed that it is ludicrous that ToH Jellal = WS#1 - strongest mage of Ishgar.
Natsu can one-shot Bluenote with his basic DS move. Jellal can one-shot a SPRIGGAN with his basic signature move. Spriggan Tier > Bluenote Tier, nuff said.
If by BASIC signature Move you mean "Enraged because the woman he loves might just be dying for all he knows and that fucker is to blame so i will kill his ass to next sunday" then yes basic.
If by BASIC signature Move you mean "Enraged because the woman he loves might just be dying for all he knows and that fucker is to blame so i will kill his ass to next sunday" then yes basic.
Doesn't make it any less basic that he used it in enraged mode. Just goes to show Jellal can control power-out in his attacks, and that he felt it would better deliver his rage.
I'm sorry, but I'm not taking "as he's shown no actual improvement" seriously. There's been plenty of evidence for that, and almost everyone has agreed that it is ludicrous that ToH Jellal = WS#1 - strongest mage of Ishgar. Almost as ludicrous as your "God Serena can't eat Natsu's flames because otherwise Natsu has no way to win" argument.
Natsu can one-shot Bluenote with his basic DS move. Jellal can one-shot a SPRIGGAN with his basic signature move. Spriggan Tier > Bluenote Tier, nuff said.
Have you ever watched Frozen? Because seeing how you go on about the Natsu vs God Serena thread so much, I think you should Let it Go.
Where is the evidence that Jellal's taken anything stronger than DF Natsu's attacks previously and still won? The Oracion Seis memebers? Their attacks were nowhere near as strong as DF Natsu. Jura, he'd come close. Neinhart's kawaii tiny explosion which dropped Jellal? I don't know about that. So there really hasn't been any evidence that he's taken attacks that are stronger than what DF Natsu threw at Jellal, thus there is no evidence that his durability hasn't improved.
And you're calling that Grand Chariot basic? He spent a while charging it up, and he split the damn sky charging that spell, plus he also had the intent to kill Neinhart, and yet you're referring to that Grand Chariot as basic when its way bigger and destructive than any other that he's used? Please, thats nowhere near basic Rai.
Have you ever watched Frozen? Because seeing how you go on about the Natsu vs God Serena thread so much, I think you should Let it Go.
Where is the evidence that Jellal's taken anything stronger than DF Natsu's attacks previously and still won? The Oracion Seis memebers? Their attacks were nowhere near as strong as DF Natsu. Jura, he'd come close. Neinhart's kawaii tiny explosion which dropped Jellal? I don't know about that. So there really hasn't been any evidence that he's taken attacks that are stronger than what DF Natsu threw at Jellal, thus there is no evidence that his durability hasn't improved.
And you're calling that Grand Chariot basic? He spent a while charging it up, and he split the damn sky charging that spell, plus he also had the intent to kill Neinhart, and yet you're referring to that Grand Chariot as basic when its way bigger and destructive than any other that he's used? Please, thats nowhere near basic Rai.
No Sam. Whether I care or not about God Serena, I'm not going to let you get away with making BS arguments that are not credible at the least.
Well, I can only speculate that the difference in power between a non-charged and a charged GC is the difference between Bluenote and Neinhart's durability. And that's a weak argument. All I'm saying is it does not matter if Natsu took out Bluenote in one roar -- there's nothing saying Jellal could not do that with a non DS move and come out completely un-phased after either.
No Sam. Whether I care or not about God Serena, I'm not going to let you get away with making BS arguments that are not credible at the least.
Well, I can only speculate that the difference in power between a non-charged and a charged GC is the difference between Bluenote and Neinhart's durability. And that's a weak argument. All I'm saying is it does not matter if Natsu took out Bluenote in one roar -- there's nothing saying Jellal could not do that with a non DS move and come out completely un-phased after either.
Natsu won the fight against God Serena fair and square, Natsu simply had the better argument for why he'd win at the end of the day, and again, this is off-topic so it really doesn't have any place for discussion in this thread.
Its a weak argument? You're still recycling dead points that myself and others have already shut down. I'm giving you points on why Natsu would defeat Jellal, and all I've seen from you for the most part is avoiding my points and bringing up other things which were already shut down. Address the points if you can, but so far I haven't seen anyone actually show me how Jellal could still fight after Natsu lands a few hits in FDKM as thats all he'd need to do to win.
At the end of the day, Natsu can outspeed Jellal and land hits on him that would deal a lot of damage, so again I'm not seeing how Jellal can win this as he'd need to do more than his serious Grand Chariot or Sema against Natsu to beat him, and as I've said previously Natsu could stop Sema dead in its tracks with some of his techniques. At the end of the day, I'm not seeing how Jellal is actually going to win if Natsu actually lands some hits on him.
Natsu won the fight against God Serena fair and square, Natsu simply had the better argument for why he'd win at the end of the day, and again, this is off-topic so it really doesn't have any place for discussion in this thread.
Its a weak argument? You're still recycling dead points that myself and others have already shut down. I'm giving you points on why Natsu would defeat Jellal, and all I've seen from you for the most part is avoiding my points and bringing up other things which were already shut down. Address the points if you can, but so far I haven't seen anyone actually show me how Jellal could still fight after Natsu lands a few hits in FDKM as thats all he'd need to do to win.
At the end of the day, Natsu can outspeed Jellal and land hits on him that would deal a lot of damage, so again I'm not seeing how Jellal can win this as he'd need to do more than his serious Grand Chariot or Sema against Natsu to beat him, and as I've said previously Natsu could stop Sema dead in its tracks with some of his techniques. At the end of the day, I'm not seeing how Jellal is actually going to win if Natsu actually lands some hits on him.
No, you misunderstood. I was referring to something else. And for the record, you've shut down none of my points with your "ToH Jellal = WS #1, strongest of Ishgar" fanfiction.
You're acting as if Natsu's DF is faster than Jellal's meteor by some huge margin, when it's not. I've brought it up MULTIPLE times that instead of CQCing back, Jellal opted to just shatter little natsu into pieces with Abyss Break.
Again, although you've advocated that, I've given you proof that just a few hits from Dragon Force took out Jellal, and again I direct you to the "Dragon Force" chapter where you can see Jellal was defeated with the fourth hit. Talk up Jellal's durability all you like, but as he's shown no actual improvement there at all after the ToH fight, it shouldn't be assumed he's gotten stronger there. Natsu's base mode is able to one-shot Bluenote who is on the level of Gildarts, so its arguable that Base Natsu holding back could replicate the same attack power, perhaps more when using the Flame Dragon King spells. Either way, two hits and a spell like the Demolition Fist in FDKM would be more than enough to put Jellal out of commission from what we've seen.
Um, Natsu base form isn't stronger than Gildarts. Both of them literally one shot bluenotestinger. Everyone on the island had their power wiped away but Erza. After that bluenotestinger said "let's get serious" and Gildarts punched several feet away and was so fast his arm was under his jaw.
Natsu isn't faster than meteor. You can the timeskip as an excuse that he bumped all his abilities like strength and speed obviously. But so has Jellal, he has stocked piled and upgraded his spells, the same way Natsu has.
GC is a basic spell, same as natsu iron first. Iron takes time to charge, just like GC. Jellal exceeds in combat, he fought the OS who has two members equal to PreTS Natsu. Which are Cobra and Zero and Jellal melted all of them. I KNOW Natsu isn't capable of that even now.
Jellal wins this battle for sure. Even though we haven't see Jellal go all out, that isn't the case with Natsu.
Abyss Break is mostly hype, and there is no reason to assume it's stronger than Sema at this point. Phantom Lord's Abyss-break was stated to be able to destroy everything from the guild to Kardia Cathredral. That puts it on block-buster range. You can hype Jellal's abyss-break to destroy the Tower of Heaven, and that would put it on large-building level.
Sema would not take down the GMG mountain and tunnel through the earth. It might destroy the base floor of the GMG like Sting's roar, but it wouldn't destroy the entire mountain.
Abyss Break is mostly hype, and there is no reason to assume it's stronger than Sema at this point. Phantom Lord's Abyss-break was stated to be able to destroy everything from the guild to Kardia Cathredral. That puts it on block-buster range. You can hype Jellal's abyss-break to destroy the Tower of Heaven, and that would put it on large-building level.
Sema would not take down the GMG mountain and tunnel through the earth. It might destroy the base floor of the GMG like Sting's roar, but it wouldn't destroy the entire mountain.
That's not really the best picture for the crater.
I'd say this
is most definitely larger than the GMG stadium (if you look at the cracks around that sphere where the crater would have its rims) in a way in which we, for the third time, can see the curvature of the Earth.
That's not really the best picture for the crater.
I'd say this
is most definitely larger than the GMG stadium (if you look at the cracks around that sphere where the creater would end) in a way in which we, for the third time, can see the curvature of the Earth.
No, my picture was the only picture of the crater. Your's is a picture of the explosion. Yes, Jellal's Sema might engulf the GMG stadium, but the actual amount of rocks that it destroyed was only a couple of meters deep. It is not blowing up the actual mountain.
Natsu's strongest spell would be a dragon slayer's secret attack done in Dragon Force. Or at the very least, a dragon slayer's secret art done in FDK mode. Demolition Fist is on the same scale as Fire Dragon King's roar, and both basically the FDK versions of Iron Fist and Roar. Natsu can cast these attacks without exhausting himself.
Natsu's strongest spell would be a dragon slayer's secret attack done in Dragon Force. Or at the very least, a dragon slayer's secret art done in FDK mode. Demolition Fist is on the same scale as Fire Dragon King's roar, and both basically the FDK versions of Iron Fist and Roar. Natsu can cast these attacks without exhausting himself.
You're acting as if Natsu's DF is faster than Jellal's meteor by some huge margin, when it's not. I've brought it up MULTIPLE times that instead of CQCing back, Jellal opted to just shatter little natsu into pieces with Abyss Break.
Well Jellal put some distance between himself and Natsu and Natsu still outsped him by a fair bit, catching up and launching them both towards the top of the tower. Yes and? Jellal was desperate not to lose there so being on the brink of defeat like he was he went for Abyss Break. It matters not though, as the next hit put Jellal out of commission, and as we've both made clear it was four hits from DF Natsu that put him out of commission.
Um, Natsu base form isn't stronger than Gildarts. Both of them literally one shot bluenotestinger. Everyone on the island had their power wiped away but Erza. After that bluenotestinger said "let's get serious" and Gildarts punched several feet away and was so fast his arm was under his jaw.
Natsu isn't faster than meteor. You can the timeskip as an excuse that he bumped all his abilities like strength and speed obviously. But so has Jellal, he has stocked piled and upgraded his spells, the same way Natsu has.
GC is a basic spell, same as natsu iron first. Iron takes time to charge, just like GC. Jellal exceeds in combat, he fought the OS who has two members equal to PreTS Natsu. Which are Cobra and Zero and Jellal melted all of them. I KNOW Natsu isn't capable of that even now.
Jellal wins this battle for sure. Even though we haven't see Jellal go all out, that isn't the case with Natsu.
And? Even if both improved, Natsu still outsped Jellal's meteor before any time-skips, so why wouldn't he outspeed Jellal now if he's shown he can do it before.
And I wouldn't call the Grand Chariot Jellal used on Neinhart basic, he was exhausted after using it, which you shouldn't be if you're using a basic spell.
Jellal went all out in that Grand Chariot on Neinhart as he was trying to kill him. I don't know why he'd hold back there.
Since when does more AoE mean the attack is stronger? From what we've seen, Natsu's Demolition Fist attack is stronger than the Dragon King's Roar as he's shown that in FDKM he can at least come incredibly close to one-shotting a Spriggan.
No it doesn't. Natsu has LFD mode. In LFD mode, he has Lightning-fire dragon's iron hammer and Lightning Fire Dragon's Roar. He also has the LFD version of his secret art. Why wouldn't this be true of FDK?
FDK demolition fist has knocked out stronger opponents. It also has a component of physical force, because it is a punch. If the roar is stronger, it would only be marginally stronger.
Well Jellal put some distance between himself and Natsu and Natsu still outsped him by a fair bit, catching up and launching them both towards the top of the tower. Yes and? Jellal was desperate not to lose there so being on the brink of defeat like he was he went for Abyss Break. It matters not though, as the next hit put Jellal out of commission, and as we've both made clear it was four hits from DF Natsu that put him out of commission.
And? Even if both improved, Natsu still outsped Jellal's meteor before any time-skips, so why wouldn't he outspeed Jellal now if he's shown he can do it before.
And I wouldn't call the Grand Chariot Jellal used on Neinhart basic, he was exhausted after using it, which you shouldn't be if you're using a basic spell.
Jellal went all out in that Grand Chariot on Neinhart as he was trying to kill him. I don't know why he'd hold back there.
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Since when does more AoE mean the attack is stronger? From what we've seen, Natsu's Demolition Fist attack is stronger than the Dragon King's Roar as he's shown that in FDKM he can at least come incredibly close to one-shotting a Spriggan.
Well Jellal put some distance between himself and Natsu and Natsu still outsped him by a fair bit, catching up and launching them both towards the top of the tower. Yes and? Jellal was desperate not to lose there so being on the brink of defeat like he was he went for Abyss Break. It matters not though, as the next hit put Jellal out of commission, and as we've both made clear it was four hits from DF Natsu that put him out of commission.
And? Even if both improved, Natsu still outsped Jellal's meteor before any time-skips, so why wouldn't he outspeed Jellal now if he's shown he can do it before.
And I wouldn't call the Grand Chariot Jellal used on Neinhart basic, he was exhausted after using it, which you shouldn't be if you're using a basic spell.
Jellal went all out in that Grand Chariot on Neinhart as he was trying to kill him. I don't know why he'd hold back there.
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Since when does more AoE mean the attack is stronger? From what we've seen, Natsu's Demolition Fist attack is stronger than the Dragon King's Roar as he's shown that in FDKM he can at least come incredibly close to one-shotting a Spriggan.
So now that your durability argument isn't enough, you're suggesting Natsu suddenly has speed leagues ahead of Jellal. Again, Jellal didn't retaliate with speed, he was smart and gave up on the tower (which is impressive for Natsu, good for him).
And you know what, I just went and rewatched that fight. Go look at that fight. Natsu caught up to Jellal by putting flames underneath his feet to propel him straight towards Jellal. You know what that means? Based of what we see Natsu can launch himself straight up at speeds that surpass meteor, but there's nothing saying that he can maneuver with flames around his feet while maintaining that speed. He has only been seen to go straight and launch himself like a rocket. FDKM Natsu w/ Igneel flames has done that again with Zeref Post Time skip, just straight. He has ever ONLY BEEN SHOWN TO GO AT HIGH SPEEDS WHEN MOVING STRAIGHT. Against Jura, we see that Jellal can speed easily in any direction while using his attacks. If anything now, we've come to the point where it's obvious that Natsu cannot match meteor in actual combat at all. Thank you for bringing this to my attention. You just dug your own grave.
