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>silver can tank his own ice
>the same rules apply to all slayer type mages
Good job shooting yourself in the foot there
Final Jellal Fernandes vs Natsu Dragneel
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>the same rules apply to all slayer type mages
Good job shooting yourself in the foot there
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Again, ToH isn't the only place where Natsu has shown great speed in Dragon Force. In Tartarus, near the end of the fight against mard geer, he entered Dragon Force and blitzed Mard Geer, again closing the distance fast. Here he didn't use fire as a propellent and he still moved at a really fast pace.
Are you serious? In the fight against Zeref, Natsu didn't use any spells, he just straight up brawled with Zereff, slapping him around with Igneel's magic which was boosting his attack power. "Just fanfiction" I hope for your sake thats meant to be bait. But seriously, if you're not even going to bother reading my posts in their entirety before commenting then why do you go to so much effort to try and poke holes in my posts? You're not doing your arguments any favours by not even accounting for everything I write.
I never said he was in base, I said his speed was comparable to base in the Zeref fight. Big difference right there.
Thats a ludicrous statement to make, Natsu has outsped Jellal. We clearly saw Natsu close the gap between him and Jellal, catching the jellato off-guard. That is outspeeding him, and you can't argue against that. The point is even if Jellal flies off in another direction, Natsu has no trouble catching up to him as we've seen previously. Jellal can do all he likes, but as we've seen Natsu is still faster.
Again, Natsu outsped Meteor and thats a fact. You're literally grasping at straws saying Natsu can't maneuver around in the air when he's showed he can use his attacks to push him in a direction as well as flames from his legs. Therefore yes, Natsu can change directions while airborn. And again, Natsu outsped Jellal and continued to close the distance after Jellal kicked him back in the ToH. The point is Dragon Force Natsu can outspeed Jellal's meteor, so stating Jellal > Natsu for speed is ludicrous when Natsu has clearly shown he can outspeed Jellal.
Natsu has shown the better defense throughout the series so I don't know why you're saying its Negligible. He's taken hits before and been able to roll with it and continue fighting which is good defense, and he's shown he can block some powerful attacks too, which again plays into Defense.
When has Jellal shown he has stamina on the level of Natsu's? If anything, Natsu has shown to have the best stamina from anyone in the whole series so far, so again, I'm questioning your logic.
I think you're playing Jellal's endurance up way too much here. He got one-shotted by Neinhart's tiny kawaii explosion, so I don't see how that is good endurance. To add to this, the best he's done is last three punches from DF Natsu before getting taken out by a 4th.
Attack is debatable, but when it comes to raw physical attack power/strength Natsu is the stronger of the two. As for ranged magical attacks, Jellal has Natsu a little bit from us seeing when he intentionally tried to kill someone. Natsu on the other hand has never had the intent to kill someone and thus hasn't gone all out in that fashion with a ranged attack, but his FDK Roar is still pretty destructive.
At the end of the day, Natsu has the better stamina and endurance, and with the ability to outspeed Jellal when using Dragon Force, he has this in the bag. Jellal has shown no improvements in durability that would suggest he could still take some hits from Natsu using FDKM or DF now which would be leagues stronger than what we saw in the ToH, so I really don't see how Jellal is winning this. If he gets hit, its literally game right there.
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Natsu was able to damage Zencrow because he combined Dragon slaying and god slaying magic so Why you give god slaying magic all the credit ? Natsu could have used Zencrows flames only if so.
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I hate to say this, but what is stopping Jellal from going airborne? He did it almost immediately when he went Meteor in the ToH and he did it while avoiding Jura's attacks, so surely he'll do it here. Plus this would mean he could cast Abyss Break or Grand Chariot without interference.
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You're acting like having your own magic used against you is a massive weakness in a slayer's repertoire. It's not. Slayers are resistant to their own elements, but they simply can't eat the magic they create themselves. They are still massively resistant to their own element, even if it comes from their own magic. Here's the bottom line. As a fire dragon slayer, Natsu is resistant to damage by fire and can eat fire that is not his own magic. He has shown the ability to cancel out heat based attacks on the level of Augusts' nuke without eating it. If Mirror Water reflects Natsu's fire back at him, he wouldn't be able to eat it. However, he would be able to tank it. It's unlikely he would take absolutely no damage, but he would take less damage from one of his own attacks than he would take from one of August's attacks, because August's attack is stronger. Since Natsu didn't suffer any major damage from August's attack, he is unlikely to suffer major damage from one of his own attacks.
Natsu was weaker than Zancrow, so he needed a power-up to beat Zancrow. The power up didn't have to be Zancrow's fire. He could have received Laxus's lightning and entered LFD, and it would have been even better. Natsu is superior to Silver at this point. Natsu can melt the GMG with his body heat, and his body heat in FDK mode can make a Spriggan level character recoil in pain.
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Also, why are people saying it was Neinhart's blast that KO'd him? It was clear that he got knocked out because he was drowning, hence why he spat a ton of water out after Kugura gave him CPR.
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I'm pretty sure we've all been debating while acknowledging he can go in the air. I've been including it in my points, and I think everyone else has been including it as well, but we do have Natsu being able to shoot up in the air as well using flames at his legs to propel him in the air.
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Fair points, but he won't be anywhere near as maneuverable as Jellal which will increase the difficulty of hitting him, which is already fairly tough due to how fast and agile Meteor makes him.
Also sorry if people have been including that, I've been skim reading.
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Call it what you want, but at the end of the day Jellal was hit by one attack and rendered unable to fight. Whether he was knocked out from the attack and thats why he drowned or he just can't swim (which I doubt) remains to be seen, but I do think the former has to be the reason why he drowned. Plus, we never saw him cough up water from Kagura's cpr, so I'm not sure where you would've seen that.
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Well, I won't deny that Jellal has the airborne advantage against Natsu. Jellal has the general speed advantage, to be honest. I also think that Jellal probably drowned as opposed to getting knocked out by Neinhart's attack. Honestly, with Jellal's speed advantage, I can see why people think he can beat Natsu (if we don't consider dragon force, and I don't).
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My mistake on the water thing, I need to proof read before I post lol.
That being said, I highly doubt it was just the energy blast, after all he did get blasted through the hull of a ship and had an anchor pin him down.
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i think we can all agree that Jellal wins this. Natsu has overstayed his welcome. If DF Natsu speculation is allowed, speculation of potency, then the same can be said for Jellal's unrevealed Heavenly Body magic. How strong is current Abyss Break?
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All right guys this is really tough for me T_T. Currently I have voted for Natsu since he can access DF too but can someone please explain to me why Jellal would beat DF Natsu? I'm torn between the two lol.
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Natsu only out sped Jellal in dragon force. Jellal won't let that opportunity presents itself again.
Natsu is so hyped it's not even funny. Cema drops from the sky, and you claim Natsu can destroy it with his first? He probably could split it in half but break all bones in his body by hitting that meteor.
GC has a faster cast time than any spell Natsu has. The fight against Neinhart showed no cast time, he simply said the name of the spell and it activated. All Jellal would have to do it use solid seal and trap him. Then drop Cema and blitz him in Meteor mode.
We already knew what Natsu is capable of going to the max. That isn't the car with Jellal.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Let me paint a picture for you.
A 5x5 brick wall falls above you, you punch it and break all your bones.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
Jellal would blitz Natsu in meteor before he even enters dragon force. That's how fast Jellal is and Cema is an unstoppable force. That should flatten even the likes of August.
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How can Jellal stop Natsu from entering Dragon Force? With the tournaments rules, whats to say Natsu wouldn't enter it whenever he felt it necessary so he could avoid attacks and catch Jellal? You're just grasping at straws here without giving any explanation for why you think things would play out the way you think.
What makes you think Natsu can't stop Sema with a Flame Dragon King's Roar? The spell is large enough and destructive enough to break it apart, and Jellal will be stationary from casting Sema at the time, so there is no risk to Natsu if he breaks it that way. As I've previously said, Natsu could also break it with the demolition fist. I also think you're bring too much real world physics into it here. Its a fantasy story, we've literally seen Natsu life a big slab of stone before and repeatedly slam it into someone, something no ordinary person could do in real life. So its completely possible, perhaps even likely that Natsu could attempt to break Sema with the Demolition Fist and not break any bones.
Grand Chariot has a faster cast time than any of Natsu's spells? Thats ludicrous. Natsu's punches are cast and finished up much quicker than that, and if Jellal is going for the level of Grand Chariot that he used against Neinhart, he needs time to charge it up, and it takes a while to do that. And the thing is, in this fight, Jellal won't have that while to do it as Natsu can catch him and clobber him.
Great picture, except if a brick is falling above me I'd actually move out of the way. And again, Fairy Tail is fantasy, not real life. The conventions and physics we have here aren't upheld like they are here, as I pointed out in an earlier paragraph, we have what we'd call abnormal feats of strength in real life in the FT story so trying to apply real-world ideas here is quite silly as again, Fairy Tail is fantasy and we've seen characters lift big stone slabs before with nothing injured, broken etc.
Again, thats an assumption on your part that he could blitz him with Meteor before Natsu enters Dragon Force when by the tournament rules, Natsu could enter it whenever he feels it necessary, so no he isn't getting blitzed and Sema is not an unstoppable force. As I've pointed out earlier (and people have agreed with this), Natsu can destroy Sema. He isn't going to stand there while Jellal takes the time to cast it, he'll get up to him and slap him one, breaking his concentration. And Sema flatten August? That is the biggest overestimation of Jellal's power I've seen thus far.
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So we're still discussing the Tower of Heaven 
DF Natsu jumps to get speed. If he wants to, a large leap can blitz Meteor just like he did. It comes down to how much strength Natsu puts into it. It makes more sense to me that Natsu will have variable speed depending on how he applies his strength. It also makes sense that Natsu's speed isn't constant like Jellal's. But there's no doubt for mine that DF Natsu can easily eclipse Meteor speed over mid range distances.
That said Jellal can fly high to a point that Natsu can't hit him. At that point he could use Sema (other spells probably don't have the range).
I'd actually question whether Jellal could outfight Natsu enough to just fly away. Natsu's attacks have considerable AoE, and he's going to be rushing Jellal. Jellal will have no choice but to engage in some way, before actually running away.
It's like me saying "whats stopping DF Natsu from bltizing meteor, throwing a few punches and then using FDK demolishing strike". Natsu has the speed to achieve this, but will he get his own way? Or will Jellal?
The way I see it, it's a spell that Jellal uses that gives him a certain speed. I really don't see it accelerate, but I can buy what you say to some extent.
DF Natsu jumps to get speed. If he wants to, a large leap can blitz Meteor just like he did. It comes down to how much strength Natsu puts into it. It makes more sense to me that Natsu will have variable speed depending on how he applies his strength. It also makes sense that Natsu's speed isn't constant like Jellal's. But there's no doubt for mine that DF Natsu can easily eclipse Meteor speed over mid range distances.
This is true. Natsu will need a surface. But a falling piece of Lacrima was enough for him to bound around 50m (I'm guessing). A falling object doesn't give you that normal force that the solid ground would, so in my opinion Natsu leaping off the ground would be able to generate a greater leap.
That said Jellal can fly high to a point that Natsu can't hit him. At that point he could use Sema (other spells probably don't have the range).
I'd actually question whether Jellal could outfight Natsu enough to just fly away. Natsu's attacks have considerable AoE, and he's going to be rushing Jellal. Jellal will have no choice but to engage in some way, before actually running away.
Like I said in the above post, this is kind of assuming Jellal gets it his own way. If he's away of Natsu's strength, and is going for the W, then I'd assume Jellal will want to get away from Natsu.
It's like me saying "whats stopping DF Natsu from bltizing meteor, throwing a few punches and then using FDK demolishing strike". Natsu has the speed to achieve this, but will he get his own way? Or will Jellal?
I'm pretty sure Jellal drowned/was without oxygen. That said, it doesn't help Jellal's cause either. Essentially he was in a combat situation and it didn't turn out too well for him. I don't hold it against him. You have to speculate how durable Jellal is though, and this doesn't help him out.
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What?...What?...WHAT? You are seriously claiming that AUGUST would fall to Sema? Mate seriously what the crap are you Smoking? I NEED some of that stuff. We have literally no evidence whatsoever that it could beat August. The last time we saw Sema it was used to beat the OS and let's be real here for a second...they are NOT Spriggan Level at that point so we have no evidence that Sema would take out any spriggan just like that. IN FACT it's far more likely that it can't because it didn't even knock out the OS for very long so if you wanna assume ANYTHING it should be that August can tank Sema like it is nothing.
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August can block Sema with the same barrier he used to stop Laxus' nuke.
Imo a base roar from Natsu could stop X791 Sema from ever hitting the ground. X792 Sema is a different story...
Imo a base roar from Natsu could stop X791 Sema from ever hitting the ground. X792 Sema is a different story...
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Natsu melts Jellal's clothes off » Jellal gets embarassed and hides his junk » Natsu proceeds to one shots him when he's distracted. GG Natsu.
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