Final Jellal Fernandes vs Natsu Dragneel

[Jellal.S.N]

I believe that FDKM demo fist requires some charge time but not much (like sema and all). And to every one saying GC took one chapter to cast, you guys forget that all "one shot" events were occurring parallel. When the sky cleared out, Jellal did not even begin casting GC. So if you are telling me he started casting GC when he was walking to Neinhart, yea sure. I feel the sky clearing is something like how Natsu covers himself in flames:- an act of showing power. This doesn't necessarily mean they are charging up right from the start. But I will agree that this GC had a longer cast time but not by too much. And in the last few panels, GC was already ready but as we know, Neinhart plays a psychological game where he summoned Simon and only when Kagura 'killed' him, Jellal let go of the spell. Hell we do not even know when he began casting it. I will accept that it has quite a cast time but not like altairis level.
@MCG_Raven yea demo fist did not take much time to charge up. I believe Gray's and Lucy's reactions were parallel. Just like the one-shots in chapter 483.
This is however my opinion. I feel Jellal takes this but the Natsu arguments are swaying me by a bit.

 

[Woodenstool]

Just because Natsu stood there building up flames for a few seconds doesn't mean that Demo Fist always needs time to charge. When Natsu first used LFD Roar against Hades, he spend a couple of seconds sucking in flames and stuff before unleashing it. Later when he was fighting Max, however, he was able to use it instantaneously. Besides, Natsu probably only stood there for a bit before attacking so he could have time to say stuff about Igneel and his friends and whatnot.

Yea sure Jellal can waste all his mp just running away from Demo Fist but Jellals not gonna win fighting like that either. He can't stay on the defensive forever and the moment he tries to attack Natsu will have an opening.

Once Natsu enters FDKM all Jellal has to do it use Meteor and escape. Jellal wins by actual facts but wins here due to fanboys.

 

[Jellal.S.N]

Just because Natsu stood there building up flames for a few seconds doesn't mean that Demo Fist always needs time to charge. When Natsu first used LFD Roar against Hades, he spend a couple of seconds sucking in flames and stuff before unleashing it. Later when he was fighting Max, however, he was able to use it instantaneously. Besides, Natsu probably only stood there for a bit before attacking so he could have time to say stuff about Igneel and his friends and whatnot.

Yea sure Jellal can waste all his mp just running away from Demo Fist but Jellals not gonna win fighting like that either. He can't stay on the defensive forever and the moment he tries to attack Natsu will have an opening.

ALMOST no attack always needs charge time except when they have to be more than normally powerful. I always disagree when people say that Natsu is charging up when he is covered in flames. That is just to show his anger and power. Same with Jellal clearing the sky, it does not necessarily mean charging but an outward way of showing power. But those two seconds you mentioned are definitely charging time but otherwise, they are quick attacks.

 

[Brandish μ]

I believe that FDKM demo fist requires some charge time but not much (like sema and all). And to every one saying GC took one chapter to cast, you guys forget that all "one shot" events were occurring parallel.

I think an FDK attack can be done quite quickly. The first one was more dramatic. The second was a lot quicker, but he was in the mode too. The FDK roar that Natsu used was also fairly quick, about the amount of time for Natsu to take a deep breath in.

GC doesn't take a whole chapter I agree But it's probably slower than Natsu's FDK attacks. I think we also need to consider that it took a little time for Jellal to clear the skies, maybe 10 seconds? This also seems to come into play with Jellal's magic now (going off Meredy's comment). I don't think this is a big deal in the fight, but perhaps for HB magic to be used and/or be powerful he needs to part the sky.

 

[Jellal.S.N]

I think an FDK attack can be done quite quickly. The first one was more dramatic. The second was a lot quicker, but he was in the mode too. The FDK roar that Natsu used was also fairly quick, about the amount of time for Natsu to take a deep breath in.

GC doesn't take a whole chapter I agree But it's probably slower than Natsu's FDK attacks. I think we also need to consider that it took a little time for Jellal to clear the skies, maybe 10 seconds? This also seems to come into play with Jellal's magic now (going off Meredy's comment). I don't think this is a big deal in the fight, but perhaps for HB magic to be used and/or be powerful he needs to part the sky.

Yea, I kinda addressed that in my next post. Natsu will charge his fist up when it needs to be more powerful but otherwise, covering in flames is not charge time imo. However, this does indicate increasing anger which directly affects (increases) his attacks and the same goes to Jellal when he cleared the skies(obviously he was pissed). And we know how powerful magic becomes when you get pissed, especially for your allies. I think I should have given a better example than sema. FDK demo fist has like a 1-2 sec/negligible cast time like Jellal's internal exploding dark spell. Yea, maybe it took 10 sec for the skies over entire hargeion port, but not directly above Jellal. I still believe it is a show of anger.

 

[Ebony Maw]

Acutally the Scans Axiomus provided prove that "Solid Seal" or the "third dimensional Seal" is really GC. take a look

You see the Scene where Cobra and Racer wonder about the Magic used where in other translations Racer would say "Solid Seal" or "Third dimensional Seal" on the right page. NOW what you see right beforehand is the magic pattern he is talking about which coincidentally is the same pattern that the Grand Chariot uses in the night sky and spell as well. The second picture doesn't represent that properly though so i am sad to say that we have confirmation at hand that Solid Seal is NOT a spell at all.

Ah cool, I'm glad that we have confirmation on that now, congrats to you and @Axiomus.

On the plus side, Jellal can set up Grand Chariot a lot faster than I thought.

 

[Boomburst]

Once Natsu enters FDKM all Jellal has to do it use Meteor and escape. Jellal wins by actual facts but wins here due to fanboys.

Did you even read my second paragraph? Yea sure Jellal can run away like a bitch. Then what? If all Jellal can do to avoid getting oneshot by Demo Fist is run away and stay on the defensive then how is he supposed to win? Jellal has to attack Natsu eventually and the moment he does Natsu will have a chance to hit him.

 

[Jellal.S.N]

Did you even read my second paragraph? Yea sure Jellal can run away like a bitch. Then what? If all Jellal can do to avoid getting oneshot by Demo Fist is run away and stay on the defensive then how is he supposed to win? Jellal has to attack Natsu eventually and the moment he does Natsu will have a chance to hit him.

He has many spells which can be cast airborne. Take GC, he casted it on ToH Natsu while airborne and then there is abyss break. Though I do agree he does need to eventually come down to fight FDKM Natsu (as Tartaros DF is definitely inferior and there are no feats post skip), but he can come down after he has dealt enough damage to Natsu. His heavenly blasts can change direction so it will at least stun Natsu. I am not even talking about KOing Natsu in one shot. I see Jellal using low scale attacks to stun or stall Natsu, to give way for his big bad ones.

 

[Woodenstool]

He has many spells which can be cast airborne. Take GC, he casted it on ToH Natsu while airborne and then there is abyss break. Though I do agree he does need to eventually come down to fight FDKM Natsu (as Tartaros DF is definitely inferior and there are no feats post skip), but he can come down after he has dealt enough damage to Natsu. His heavenly blasts can change direction so it will at least stun Natsu. I am not even talking about KOing Natsu in one shot. I see Jellal using low scale attacks to stun or stall Natsu, to give way for his big bad ones.

Jellal wanst trapped in the 7 year timeskip so he's way way way way stronger than Natsu. Natsu has only show strength feats, not speed.

The two times he has used Demolition fist of the flame dragon King was on the God of War who was completely stationary.

The second time was on Jacob who was launched in mid air. Jacob was unable to beat the laws of physics and move faster than gravity pushing him down. Natsu was literally a few feet above him, making it a perfect spot to land that Demolition fist.

I highly doubt Natsu can use demolition fist on a moving now target. However, against Zeref he was able to run with a big ball of fire. But Zeref wasn't moving at all.

From what we've seen, Jellal would never be in that position due to this speed feats. Natsu himself isn't capable of reacting to 'poof' speed or the speed that Gildarts did at KoTsh.

Jellal durability may be low but we all know that was plot so Neinhart could showcase his magic more. Then he effortlessly used his common spells used back in part one to take out a spriggan. Whereas Natsu used his new mode and probably his third strongest attack.

Everyone is picturing Jellal just using Cema on Natsu without him/Natsu being injuried and unable to move. I will say it again, Jellal has gotten two chapters this entire arc showing one spell, that isn't the case with Natsu. And Dragonforce wouldn't do anything to Jellal. If the TOH arc showed Jellal eating most hits then what makes you think Jellal who has been training a lot more will be demolished?

Tatarus Natsu isn't capable of a 1v6 against the OS.

 

[Brandish μ]

Natsu in base mode is not all that slow either, and he can fly up himself like he did in Tartarus (won't be meteor speed though). He's probably quick enough now not to be blitzed like he was on the ToH.

On the plus side, Jellal can set up Grand Chariot a lot faster than I thought.

The one if Alvarez is the only one that has taken him any time he usually just hits it straight away, it's also the only GC to ever defeat someone. Neinhart's durability/endurance might be the lowest of the Spriggans, but it shouldn't be low (ie it must be better than pre-skip OS members). So it's quite possible that a strong GC just takes a little longer. But maybe Hiro just wanted to drag it out and make it appear like it took longer.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 1, 2016, Original Post Date: Jul 1, 2016 ---

I highly doubt Natsu can use demolition fist on a moving now target. However, against Zeref he was able to run with a big ball of fire. But Zeref wasn't moving at all.

For FDKM Natsu, Demolishing Strike is like doing a powerful punch. Natsu will probably use it at the opportune time. An FDK roar would do better against a moving target, given the AoE.

Having said that the movement of the opponent isn't so much of a thing to me. Jellal's used GC when targets aren't running around either (Neinhart, Jura, OS, can't remember the Natsu one) - so can Jellal use GC if the opponent moves?

Tatarus Natsu isn't capable of a 1v6 against the OS.

I agree. But he was inferior to Jellal by a bit then. Current Natsu would oneshot Tartarus OS in base with a roar.

 

[SirSamuel016]

Once Natsu enters FDKM all Jellal has to do it use Meteor and escape. Jellal wins by actual facts but wins here due to fanboys.

How can Jellal win if he's just going to fly around avoiding attacks? He has to attack Natsu at some point, and when he does that is when Natsu has an oppurtunity to land an attack of his own, and if its a Flame Dragon King's Demolition Fist, then Jellal will be in really bad shape afterwards. And you haven't provided any material to back up your statements, so I don't see how anything you say is an actual fact.

Jellal wanst trapped in the 7 year timeskip so he's way way way way stronger than Natsu. Natsu has only show strength feats, not speed.

The two times he has used Demolition fist of the flame dragon King was on the God of War who was completely stationary.

The second time was on Jacob who was launched in mid air. Jacob was unable to beat the laws of physics and move faster than gravity pushing him down. Natsu was literally a few feet above him, making it a perfect spot to land that Demolition fist.

I highly doubt Natsu can use demolition fist on a moving now target. However, against Zeref he was able to run with a big ball of fire. But Zeref wasn't moving at all.

From what we've seen, Jellal would never be in that position due to this speed feats. Natsu himself isn't capable of reacting to 'poof' speed or the speed that Gildarts did at KoTsh.

Jellal durability may be low but we all know that was plot so Neinhart could showcase his magic more. Then he effortlessly used his common spells used back in part one to take out a spriggan. Whereas Natsu used his new mode and probably his third strongest attack.

Everyone is picturing Jellal just using Cema on Natsu without him/Natsu being injuried and unable to move. I will say it again, Jellal has gotten two chapters this entire arc showing one spell, that isn't the case with Natsu. And Dragonforce wouldn't do anything to Jellal. If the TOH arc showed Jellal eating most hits then what makes you think Jellal who has been training a lot more will be demolished?

Tatarus Natsu isn't capable of a 1v6 against the OS.

1. Jellal hasn't shown much growth since the ToH if any at all. "Way stronger than Natsu" he has not shown this whatsoever, and I'd appreciate it if you can show me where in the manga he has currently shown he is stronger than Natsu.
2. Natsu was moving when he used the Demolition Fist on Jacob, so your point on him needing to be stationary when using it is ludicrous. Natsu didn't move when using the Demolition Fist on the War God because the War God was stationary, but he showed in the fight against Jacob that he can use it while moving, thus making your point obsolete.
3. Natsu has some of the best reaction feats in the manga, as I've shown previously he reacted quickly to the fast moving thorns of Mard Geer when he started fighting him while running towards Mard Geer, so his reaction speed is nothing to just shrug off. He's also shown that he can outspeed Jellal's meteor just by jumping off a solid surface in Dragon Force, and he's done this without flames on his legs. If he had flames on his legs as propulsion, then he'd be moving even faster.
4. Regardless of the plot, Jellal was initially taken out by Neinhart's small explosion, which showed his durability isn't that great. Natsu's attacks have a lot of offensive power, moreso than Neinhart's explosion so a couple of hits from Natsu in FDKM would end it. And again, that Grand Chariot in the Alvarez arc wasn't a regular one like he used on the Oracion Seis arc, he spent time charging it up, and a good little while at that too. Thats a window of oppurtunity for Natsu to attack him and end the fight.
5. Dragon Force won't do anything to Jellal? Are you serious? Four punches from Dragon Force Natsu defeated Jellal in the ToH, so I wouldn't say Jellal was eating hits from it in the fight while being completely fine.

 

[Woodenstool]

How can Jellal win if he's just going to fly around avoiding attacks? He has to attack Natsu at some point, and when he does that is when Natsu has an oppurtunity to land an attack of his own, and if its a Flame Dragon King's Demolition Fist, then Jellal will be in really bad shape afterwards. And you haven't provided any material to back up your statements, so I don't see how anything you say is an actual fact.



1. Jellal hasn't shown much growth since the ToH if any at all. "Way stronger than Natsu" he has not shown this whatsoever, and I'd appreciate it if you can show me where in the manga he has currently shown he is stronger than Natsu.
2. Natsu was moving when he used the Demolition Fist on Jacob, so your point on him needing to be stationary when using it is ludicrous. Natsu didn't move when using the Demolition Fist on the War God because the War God was stationary, but he showed in the fight against Jacob that he can use it while moving, thus making your point obsolete.
3. Natsu has some of the best reaction feats in the manga, as I've shown previously he reacted quickly to the fast moving thorns of Mard Geer when he started fighting him while running towards Mard Geer, so his reaction speed is nothing to just shrug off. He's also shown that he can outspeed Jellal's meteor just by jumping off a solid surface in Dragon Force, and he's done this without flames on his legs. If he had flames on his legs as propulsion, then he'd be moving even faster.
4. Regardless of the plot, Jellal was initially taken out by Neinhart's small explosion, which showed his durability isn't that great. Natsu's attacks have a lot of offensive power, moreso than Neinhart's explosion so a couple of hits from Natsu in FDKM would end it. And again, that Grand Chariot in the Alvarez arc wasn't a regular one like he used on the Oracion Seis arc, he spent time charging it up, and a good little while at that too. Thats a window of oppurtunity for Natsu to attack him and end the fight.
5. Dragon Force won't do anything to Jellal? Are you serious? Four punches from Dragon Force Natsu defeated Jellal in the ToH, so I wouldn't say Jellal was eating hits from it in the fight while being completely fine.

Dude I can't take you seriously, Natsu and Jacob can't move faster than gravity pushing them down. Natsu was above Jacob so he a hit while moving.

 

[SirSamuel016]

Dude I can't take you seriously, Natsu and Jacob can't move faster than gravity pushing them down. Natsu was above Jacob so he a hit while moving.

What does Gravity have do with the fight? Natsu and Jacob were both moving through the air and Natsu used the Flame Dragon King's Demolition Fist whilst moving. You said that Natsu can't use the Demolition fist while moving but that is a clear contradiction to what we saw in the Jacob fight. Therefore, your statement is completely baseless.

 

[Jellal.S.N]

How can Jellal win if he's just going to fly around avoiding attacks? He has to attack Natsu at some point, and when he does that is when Natsu has an oppurtunity to land an attack of his own, and if its a Flame Dragon King's Demolition Fist, then Jellal will be in really bad shape afterwards. And you haven't provided any material to back up your statements, so I don't see how anything you say is an actual fact.



1. Jellal hasn't shown much growth since the ToH if any at all. "Way stronger than Natsu" he has not shown this whatsoever, and I'd appreciate it if you can show me where in the manga he has currently shown he is stronger than Natsu.
2. Natsu was moving when he used the Demolition Fist on Jacob, so your point on him needing to be stationary when using it is ludicrous. Natsu didn't move when using the Demolition Fist on the War God because the War God was stationary, but he showed in the fight against Jacob that he can use it while moving, thus making your point obsolete.
3. Natsu has some of the best reaction feats in the manga, as I've shown previously he reacted quickly to the fast moving thorns of Mard Geer when he started fighting him while running towards Mard Geer, so his reaction speed is nothing to just shrug off. He's also shown that he can outspeed Jellal's meteor just by jumping off a solid surface in Dragon Force, and he's done this without flames on his legs. If he had flames on his legs as propulsion, then he'd be moving even faster.
4. Regardless of the plot, Jellal was initially taken out by Neinhart's small explosion, which showed his durability isn't that great. Natsu's attacks have a lot of offensive power, moreso than Neinhart's explosion so a couple of hits from Natsu in FDKM would end it. And again, that Grand Chariot in the Alvarez arc wasn't a regular one like he used on the Oracion Seis arc, he spent time charging it up, and a good little while at that too. Thats a window of oppurtunity for Natsu to attack him and end the fight.
5. Dragon Force won't do anything to Jellal? Are you serious? Four punches from Dragon Force Natsu defeated Jellal in the ToH, so I wouldn't say Jellal was eating hits from it in the fight while being completely fine.

@SirSamuel016
I find your posts very convincing until it comes to DF. As we know, we can only use Tartaros DF, and that ain't giving Jellal as much difficulty as current FDKM. So I think telling Tartaros DF will reck Jellal is stretching it by too far. If you provide arguments with FDKM, its completely acceptable as Natsu had a huge boost up but come on man, not Tartaros DF. Otherwise, your other points are quite legit and good. I also feel the first point is kinda awkward as Jellal was never spriggan tier in ToH. Yea, he kinda tanked like 4 hits from Natsu and then fused with etherion. Jellal has shown growth imo, he blitzed Cobra who was never actually 'legit' beat by fairy tail pre skip (notice the legit) and he can also hear Jellal's movements. Tartaros Natsu could have done it, but not as easily as Jellal did. Jellal's durability and attack power has grown (again, this is my opinion). He tanked few hits from Cobra, Racer and Angel Without magic. Obviously, GC has also grown unless you believe Jellal's words that it was as strong as a meteor falling back in ToH.
I completely agree demo fist can be used even while not stationary but all I am asking from Jellal is to make him miss it. Surely, that will decrease Natsu's MP imo. Remember that there is not environmental advantage so Natsu can't skip and jump on rocks to finally propell to Jellal like he did back in ToH. Its on flat ground if I am right so Jellal can easily escape from Natsu by air and then drop some spells. He also has telekinesis which has the ability to strangle your opponents. As I stated before, Jellal doesn't need to beat Natsu with his telekinesis or Darkness spells, just stall him. I believe Natsu can overcome telekinesis by causing discomfort to Jellal using heat. But lets agree that once Jellal gets airborne, Natsu ain't catching up due to zero environmental advantage. But if you talk on combat speed Natsu takes it only by a small margin (due to only Tartaros DF). But He takes it.
I really wish we could see more of altairis. That was the only spell which gave me the chills.
Any way, Natsu evaporated water with his heat, should remind Jellal to bring some popcorn. He doesn't even need a microwave when he has Natsu.

 

[Boomburst]

Dude I can't take you seriously, Natsu and Jacob can't move faster than gravity pushing them down. Natsu was above Jacob so he a hit while moving.

Dude in the last moments of their fight Natsu was clearly around the same height as Jacob when he hit him with Demo Fist, so your argument isn't valid.

 

[Brandish μ]

Lol if gravity was such a big factor Bluenote would be OP

I'll agree that Jacob couldn't do anything about his position, he was a sitting duck.

Any way, Natsu evaporated water with his heat, should remind Jellal to bring some popcorn. He doesn't even need a microwave when he has Natsu.

Hahaha. Maybe some marshmallows too

 

[SirSamuel016]

@SirSamuel016
I find your posts very convincing until it comes to DF. As we know, we can only use Tartaros DF, and that ain't giving Jellal as much difficulty as current FDKM. So I think telling Tartaros DF will reck Jellal is stretching it by too far. If you provide arguments with FDKM, its completely acceptable as Natsu had a huge boost up but come on man, not Tartaros DF. Otherwise, your other points are quite legit and good. I also feel the first point is kinda awkward as Jellal was never spriggan tier in ToH. Yea, he kinda tanked like 4 hits from Natsu and then fused with etherion. Jellal has shown growth imo, he blitzed Cobra who was never actually 'legit' beat by fairy tail pre skip (notice the legit) and he can also hear Jellal's movements. Tartaros Natsu could have done it, but not as easily as Jellal did. Jellal's durability and attack power has grown (again, this is my opinion). He tanked few hits from Cobra, Racer and Angel Without magic. Obviously, GC has also grown unless you believe Jellal's words that it was as strong as a meteor falling back in ToH.
I completely agree demo fist can be used even while not stationary but all I am asking from Jellal is to make him miss it. Surely, that will decrease Natsu's MP imo. Remember that there is not environmental advantage so Natsu can't skip and jump on rocks to finally propell to Jellal like he did back in ToH. Its on flat ground if I am right so Jellal can easily escape from Natsu by air and then drop some spells. He also has telekinesis which has the ability to strangle your opponents. As I stated before, Jellal doesn't need to beat Natsu with his telekinesis or Darkness spells, just stall him. I believe Natsu can overcome telekinesis by causing discomfort to Jellal using heat. But lets agree that once Jellal gets airborne, Natsu ain't catching up due to zero environmental advantage. But if you talk on combat speed Natsu takes it only by a small margin (due to only Tartaros DF). But He takes it.
I really wish we could see more of altairis. That was the only spell which gave me the chills.
Any way, Natsu evaporated water with his heat, should remind Jellal to bring some popcorn. He doesn't even need a microwave when he has Natsu.

Well now, let me put this to you then. Tartarus DF Natsu is stronger than ToH DF Natsu. ToH DF Natsu hit Jellal four times with mere punches, and that dropped Jellal who was still in a very decent state before Natsu entered DF. So, with Tartarus DF Natsu being even stronger than that, and Jellal's durability not really showing that much improvement, whats to say Jellal would do better against DF Natsu now, even if its at the Tartarus power level and if Natsu actually used spells in Dragon Force?

 

[Jellal.S.N]

Well now, let me put this to you then. Tartarus DF Natsu is stronger than ToH DF Natsu. ToH DF Natsu hit Jellal four times with mere punches, and that dropped Jellal who was still in a very decent state before Natsu entered DF. So, with Tartarus DF Natsu being even stronger than that, and Jellal's durability not really showing that much improvement, whats to say Jellal would do better against DF Natsu now, even if its at the Tartarus power level and if Natsu actually used spells in Dragon Force?

Good post. Obviously Tartarus DF Natsu is stronger but he only landed two punches on Mard Geer and Crimson Lotus spell. That did a shit ton of damage to Mard Geer. But, he again jumped and skipped on rocks to reach a flying Mard Geer and when he closed the gap at the end, it was with a spell. This was an impressive feat for me, but there is no environmental advantage here and as I have previously stated, Jellal has attacks he can launch airborne. We don't even need to talk about tanking when he can evade the attacks. Natsu cannot fly, but he can propel himself to quite a height. But Jellal can evade him in air, even in ToH or in Tartaros, those rock flying platforms are there to help Natsu. That is not the case in this fight. Jellal takes out DF TARTAROS. FDKM is a different story and much harder a fight at least imo.

Hahaha. Maybe some marshmallows too

And some barbecue? Jellal can bring an entire restaurant menu of items uncooked. Now before this turns into Shokugeki no Soma...

 

[SirSamuel016]

Good post. Obviously Tartarus DF Natsu is stronger but he only landed two punches on Mard Geer and Crimson Lotus spell. That did a shit ton of damage to Mard Geer. But, he again jumped and skipped on rocks to reach a flying Mard Geer and when he closed the gap at the end, it was with a spell. This was an impressive feat for me, but there is no environmental advantage here and as I have previously stated, Jellal has attacks he can launch airborne. We don't even need to talk about tanking when he can evade the attacks. Natsu cannot fly, but he can propel himself to quite a height. But Jellal can evade him in air, even in ToH or in Tartaros, those rock flying platforms are there to help Natsu. That is not the case in this fight. Jellal takes out DF TARTAROS. FDKM is a different story and much harder a fight at least imo.

And some barbecue? Jellal can bring an entire restaurant menu of items uncooked. Now before this turns into Shokugeki no Soma...

A flat ground would still fit the role of a surface for Natsu to jump up off like the stone slab in Tartarus or the ToH debris as at the end of the day, its still solid enough for Natsu, or anyone, to spring off. Given that Natsu can also spring up with flames on his legs, it makes Natsu more than able to do this. While I can see what you're getting at with environmental advantage, at the end of the day its still going to be solid ground, which as I said fits the role perfectly. As I've also said in previous posts, Natsu has used attacks to change his direction in the hair, or further boost the himself in the direction he's going in, hence he's able to move around in the air doing this, or probably even just flipping around and positioning himself to go on the direction he needs to go next using the flames on his legs.

Again, Tartarus DF Natsu and FDKM Natsu are both Natsu, but if you insist on Natsu's DF being Tartarus level for where Natsu currently is then I'll still roll with that when debating with you. As I pointed out in my last post, which you didn't try to rebute, Tartarus DF Natsu is stronger than ToH Dragon Force Natsu, which took out Jellal with four punches. All Natsu needs to do to defeat Jellal is land some hits and its over. I've also pointed out that Jellal has shown next to no increase in his durability, and the explosion from Neinhart that took him out supports this, regardless of the plot. While Jellal does have attacks he can use in the air, unless he's willing to charge up Grand Chariot like he did against Neinhart for a really strong GC, then he's not going to be damaging Natsu as much as he could be with it, and if he does try to charge it up, it opens up the oppurtunity for Natsu to attack him.

 

[Jellal.S.N]

A flat ground would still fit the role of a surface for Natsu to jump up off like the stone slab in Tartarus or the ToH debris as at the end of the day, its still solid enough for Natsu, or anyone, to spring off. Given that Natsu can also spring up with flames on his legs, it makes Natsu more than able to do this. While I can see what you're getting at with environmental advantage, at the end of the day its still going to be solid ground, which as I said fits the role perfectly. As I've also said in previous posts, Natsu has used attacks to change his direction in the hair, or further boost the himself in the direction he's going in, hence he's able to move around in the air doing this, or probably even just flipping around and positioning himself to go on the direction he needs to go next using the flames on his legs.

Again, Tartarus DF Natsu and FDKM Natsu are both Natsu, but if you insist on Natsu's DF being Tartarus level for where Natsu currently is then I'll still roll with that when debating with you. As I pointed out in my last post, which you didn't try to rebute, Tartarus DF Natsu is stronger than ToH Dragon Force Natsu, which took out Jellal with four punches. All Natsu needs to do to defeat Jellal is land some hits and its over. I've also pointed out that Jellal has shown next to no increase in his durability, and the explosion from Neinhart that took him out supports this, regardless of the plot. While Jellal does have attacks he can use in the air, unless he's willing to charge up Grand Chariot like he did against Neinhart for a really strong GC, then he's not going to be damaging Natsu as much as he could be with it, and if he does try to charge it up, it opens up the oppurtunity for Natsu to attack him.

Yea, he can jump off flat ground to quite a height. The reason why I bring up those rock support things is due to the ALTITUDE. Now why altitude? Because Natsu needs at least a good height which is reachable to Jellal. So if Natsu can catch up to Jellal at the first few seconds of his take off, this will be a much tougher fight. But Jellal is not that dumb. He could fly in any direction and easily evade Natsu. But when he is doing so, he is flying much higher. My point of argument is that those rocks were never ground level so Natsu wouldn't have even reached Jellal if he took off from the ground and needed those rocks to gain enough altitude until he blitzed Jellal. I am all for Natsu being faster than Jellal but he does not have equal maneuvering while airborne like Jellal. His propelling tho kinda amazed me but again he only reaches his opponent when he has a perfect altitude/height required.
Its kinda fun debating with you. These are all my opinions and I easily see Jellal getting airborne (unless there is a wild possibility that Natsu will catch up to him WITHOUT environmental advantage)
Hope we have fun discussing other points. This has been the most evenly matched fight other than Jellal vs Laxus.

Edit;-Sorry I forgot to address you Natsu moving in air point. I agree that Natsu can do it but Jellal's level is much better and hence, I stated that his maneuvering in air is much higher than Natsu's. Plus, its game over once Jellal gets above a certain height like I stated.