Ok I guess you've got a point. Although for me the SO was just a MP boost and no more, but again, you could interpret otherwise. I didn't take it as though Erza automatically improved drastically in all areas (cqc, speed, and so on) upon releasing the SO, but alright. I think they did train for a couple of weeks though (although they had a few months to catch up with the 7-year gap but we all know what happened). 2 weeks training is a longish time considering the growth ratio of characters, especially the main cast. Post-Azuma Erza + 2 weeks training = much stronger Erza than pre-Azuma Erza.
SO itself was just a MP boost no doubt, but the MP boost is what gives way to increased stats. The growth ratio of characters is highly dependant on the situation, 2 weeks is nothing. Hence the
urgency for SO. Also on the note of the 2 weeks, they did not train for 2 weeks. They relaxed on the first day of training and got sent to the spirit world on the second. When they came back they had 5 days left before the grand magic games. They then encountered CS and got SO, but they were experiencing the pain for those 4 days (they got SO at night, so its 4 not 5 days now), not training. In anycase, an Erza with four extra days of training won't be that much stronger. And she defeated Kagura, so Kagura would still be hovering around Tenrou Erza level regardless.
I think they're two separate things. For instance, do you actually see August fighting cqc? I'm not disregarding the possibility but... hmmm Old people in this manga usually have more MP but their cqc abilities have been deteriorated.
I've barely seen August fight period, though his physique is definitely in prime shape. He fits the ripped badass old man criteria so I wouldn't be surprised at all if he can fight CQC, we probably won't get to see it though since he is the king of
magic. He's already shown incredible endurance though. Also, Makarov and Precht are both very powerful physically. In anycase Erza is fairly young.
Sheathed Kagura was vastly superior to anything Erza could pull off (except for Benizakura) and then Kagura unsheathes (which apparently boosts her power by quite a lot) and ends up defeated by Benizakura Erza, like a oneshot. Benizakura Erza >>> Unsheathed Kagura >>> Sheathed Kagura >>> Erza
Benizakura Erza is still Erza at the end of the day. I actually do not think unsheathing her sword increases Kaguras power by that much, she has already shown that she could cut with an sheathed sword, so all unsheathing it is really doing is letting it cut better......nothing else. Benizakura at least gives Erza a big boost in speed (no armour) and strength (no armour) on top of a increase in cutting power.
I'd say that back in the GMG, everyone from Tenrou was fodder. Kagura was portrayed to be a very powerful character even for GMG standards, when she shouldn't be considered as such if she's to be compared to a Tenrou Erza. I mean, by that token, you'd be classing Kagura on a similar tier to Max, who actually was beating Natsu up until he decided to go full power. And we all know Kagura is so vastly superior to Max...
Natsu level was weak back on Tenrou, not Erza level. Even then Max only held off Natsu for a
little while (Natsu did not use any named attacks) before Natsu went all out and threatened him into submission, Zancrow was
easily destroying Natsu back on Tenrou. Tenrou Erza is a great deal stronger then Zancrow because Azuma is stronger then Zancrow, and he needed the power of the
Tenrou Tree to fight on par with Erza, even though he
still lost. Kagura being on the same level as Tenrou Erza by no means means she is on the same level as Max.
Tenrou Erza >=< Kagura>=< Tenrou Azuma >> Azuma > Zancrow >> Tenrou Natsu >> Max
So if we are to compare Kagura/Tenrou Erza to Max its:
Kagura/Tenrou Erza >>>>>>> Max
There is this preconceived notion that Tenrou characters were pathetically weak when thats not the case at all. Max would have gave Natsu a Mid-Diff fight at most if the fight went on normally, and Natsu was still pathetically weak back on Tenrou. Gajeel, his rival in power, nearly got beaten by two Kin lackeys. Lets not overestimate Max and label Natsus level of power onto everyone else. Especially Erza who was leagues above him back on Tenrou (the last time she was leagues above him, GMG and above Natsu quickly closed the gap and surpassed her with the new TS).
Natsu is also a prime example of SO increasing physical stats btw. Since there is some ambiguity as to whether Erza trained during those 4 days, but we can say without a doubt that Natsu and the rest of the gang didn't.
Point taken but, again, I've got a point too. We don't know the limitations to Kagura's gravity magic but we know they're superior to a Golden Key Celestial Spirit, and we know she taught some members like Risley so... Maybe not at Bluenote's level but definetely a factor to be taken into account.
Bluenotes level is the bare minimum to overpower Torafusas water given how large it is in volume. Furthermore, Kaguras gravity works differently as someone pointed out, her floating wouldn't help her case. In fact I'd rather be in the water then floating if a shark was in the water, I'd at least have more options. Not that Torafusa would let her just float away from him. He has shown that he gives a consistent beating, Gajeel was lucky he could forcibly close his mouth as to avoid drowning right away.
Adamantine armour tanked a Jupiter before destroying, I don't see a Tartaros demon tanking a Jupiter but alright let's say his durability is superior to Erza's. Then Kagura's gonna have a lot of trouble. But still, characters like Juvia or Lucy managed to beat a Tartaros Demon and I consider Kagura so superior to them...
Adamantine did not tank the Jupiter, it got destroyed and Erza got KO'd. Torafusa won't be tanking the Jupiter either, his hardened skin is gonna look like Erzas armour did ergo it won't be a pretty sight. Lucy defeated her demon with a lot of help and major PIS on Jackals part, Juvia defeated the weakest demon in a way that no one apart from her could do (someone like Kagura wouldn't be able to defeat Keith at all). In anycase, Torafusa is
FAR stronger then both Jackal and Keith so the comparison is moot.
It might be to you, it might be to me, but people who're gonna abide by it are going to be convinced their argument is as right as ours and as a matter of fact, if you look at it from another perspective, certain haxes don't seem to have a limit per se. For example, Marin's hax was affecting mages of superior caliber to him. Freed can make a barrier which withstands Makarov's attacks, which are more powerful than his own durability. And so on and so forth.
Naturally, but its still a fallacy at the end of the day. Freeds hax has shown limits multiple times. Marin is a special case. The way I see it is that he governs the space between the other dimension and the real world. So Erza cannot bring her armour because Marin is stopping it from passing through. Its not a matter of power until it actually comes to the real world (ie Erzas Adamantine armour is not using her power until it comes to the real world, so he could stop it without problems). With that said, I don't see him stopping the CSK from coming (since the CSK himself has a lot more power then Marin, he doesn't need Lucys MP to be more powerful then him), or Nakagami armour (bypasses laws of magic). I also do not see Spriggan level characters and above going to Marin's relaxation dimension, because their sheer MP should negate it.
There are always limits, you can't always look at everything at face value (I know you aren't per say). DiMaria having control over real time makes no sense given how we know the world works. Its all magic, her Age Seal is also just
her magic acting in a certain way. People strong enough to overpower her magic shouldn't be affected, this stands to reason and IS the reason why there are multiple characters canonically established above her. Horologium is walking proof that Jacobs ability has a limit.
While it is true, there's like 1 second for clapping + 2 seconds for activating his magic, which makes an amount of time that wasn't enough for anyone to react. Of course top-notch characters may be able to do something against it, but Makarov who's still reasonable useful wasn't capable of doing anything.
Probably more then 2 seconds before activation. Everyone in the guild was just that, in the guild. They had nowhere to run when Jacob used his ability, nor was anyone there particularly fast, including Makarov. Jacob is an assassin, he probably uses transport when his target is caught off guard or not aware of his presence period. I do not believe its a useful move in direct combat, especially in an open area.
Inferiority when compared to whom?
August and Irene.
Clearly it is shown the town being destroyed and even stated. Clearly it is shown and stated about Whal fodder ignoring Mirajane Sehlia command.
Town is getting rekt, but its a constant process and not a single roar/nuke. Plutogrim is going around the town, destroying all the houses. And again, nothing to compare it to since Mira never used a nuke. Given how impactful her mere presence was I wouldn't put it past her to do the same, if not far more. There is a reason why Sayla did not just go to the guild and macro everyone, there is likely a limited amount of people it can control with full efficiency. Fodder is fodder at the end of the day, her influence clearly dwindled. Although it does show that Macro also has limits, a very useful piece for the next time someone claims Mira or Sayla solo a Spriggan with Macro (lol).
Ergo she didn't gain Marde Geer soul.
Again, Zeref destroyed Mard but nothing is to say that his soul was. At the end of the day, via official translation (crunchyrole), it was stated that Mirajane absorbed ALL the souls of Tartarus. And you could see it in her design.
