Bradman uses all the 9DG curses, that's very hax if he ever got to using Kyouka's strengthening curse
August was stated to be the strongest of the Sprigs till Irene came along and since then they have been stated to be of equal power, he's the strongest male, she's the strongest female. And I don't see anywhere he intimidated her, she did back down, which could have easily been a sign of respect rather than fear.
Bradman is seriously overrated.
Also, August has been straight up stated to be the strongest of the Spriggan 12 several times and he intimidated Eilleen just two chapters ago.
I don't know if i would say intimidated, she stared him down right back. She definitely backed off for the time being, but even if he is only slightly stronger than her, Irene backing off makes sense. No reason to start that type of fight there. Personally i give him the edge, due to him being the Commander of the 12, and his age. Despite the fact i believe Irene is enchanting herself to look that young, she can't be that old maybe 45-50. His wisdom/experience should push him over the top in a fight between the two as of now imo.
As far as I'm concerned, a dragon's physical body is one of their greatest attributes. That's why Dragon Force is the strongest ability for a dragon slayer, because it transforms them physically. This is why Mard Geer can block LFD punches with lots of fire and lightning with his face, but punches done in Dragon Force are able to push him back in his etherious form despite having little fire. Even the knee that seems to have no fire behind it seems to be more effective than the LFD punch.
Now dragons can use magic too. Just like a human can augment their physical strength with magical power, so too can a dragon. Igneel's strongest attack should be a physical attack that is augmented by his magical power. Also, keep in mind that dragons are an entirely magical species. Only 10% of humans can use magic, but every dragon has magic built into their biology. I wouldn't be surprised a dragon's physical strength runs on magical power, the same way we run on food. Certainly someone like Atlas Flame would need to be constantly using magic. This even applies to certain mages tbh.
As far as I'm concerned, a dragon's physical body is one of their greatest attributes. That's why Dragon Force is the strongest ability for a dragon slayer, because it transforms them physically. This is why Mard Geer can block LFD punches with lots of fire and lightning with his face, but punches done in Dragon Force are able to push him back. Even the knee that seems to have no fire behind it seems to be more effective than the LFD punch.
Now dragons can use magic too. Just like a human can augment their physical strength with magical power, so too can a dragon. Igneel's strongest attack should be a physical attack that is augmented by his magical power. Also, keep in mind that dragons are an entirely magical species. Only 10% of humans can use magic, but every dragon has magic built into their biology. I wouldn't be surprised a dragon's physical strength runs on magical power, the same way we run on food. Certainly someone like Atlas Flame would need to be constantly using magic.
Or you know, Mard Geer was completely drained because he had used a lot of Curse Power in fighting the Twins plus Natsu, plus he had just used Memento Mori, a spell that was hyped to destroy Zeref, so Mard was on his last toes there therefore Natsu's attacks would be more effective on him..
Would also like to draw attention to your use of "push him back" and not "damage Mard Geer."
It all honestly comes down to the user of the DF, Sting and Rogue used DF and Natsu was still stronger than them (their Dragons were limiting their powers), so their DF's are different from Natsu's...
Wendy's DF put her on Ezel's level, and Ezel was the weakest of the Nine Demon Gates....her Dragon Force wouldn't do anything to Mard Geer or any of the other Nine Demon Gates...
Or you know, Mard Geer was completely drained because he had used a lot of Curse Power in fighting the Twins plus Natsu, plus he had just used Memento Mori, a spell that was hyped to destroy Zeref, so Mard was on his last toes there therefore Natsu's attacks would be more effective on him..
Would also like to draw attention to your use of "push him back" and not "damage Mard Geer."
It all honestly comes down to the user of the DF, Sting and Rogue used DF and Natsu was still stronger than them (their Dragons were limiting their powers), so their DF's are different from Natsu's...
Wendy's DF put her on Ezel's level, and Ezel was the weakest of the Nine Demon Gates....her Dragon Force wouldn't do anything to Mard Geer or any of the other Nine Demon Gates...
Mard still had enough power to enter his Etherious form, and his etherious form should be stronger than his base. You can see cracks in Mard's face from the DF punch, whereas in the LFD punch there was next to nothing (actually, Mard was even smiling).
Not all dragon slayers would have the same dragon force, because not all dragons are equal. Natsu's dragon force gives him the physical properties of Igneel, whereas Wendy gives her Grandeeney's properties and Sting gets Weisslogia's. The difference can be explained through that. Also, it depends on how much they dragonize.
I wouldn't be surprised a dragon's physical strength runs on magical power, the same way we run on food. Certainly someone like Atlas Flame would need to be constantly using magic. This even applies to certain mages tbh.
It's never really stated explicitly how magic/physicality is related but I'd say it is. For example when someone uses their magic a lot they become physically drained. And also as a general rule, wizards with more MP tend to have better physical durability.
It's never really stated explicitly how magic/physicality is related but I'd say it is. For example when someone uses their magic a lot they become physically drained. And also as a general rule, wizards with more MP tend to have better physical durability.
Yep. We pretty much know 2nd origin boosted the mage's physical ability even though its MP related. Natsu went from not being able to keep up with Max to being able to demolish Dragon Force Sting and Rogue.
I don't know why people keep saying Max was stronger than Natsu, or that Natsu couldn't keep up with Max or whatever. The fight lasted 30 seconds, the moment Natsu got serious Max resigned and admitted Natsu was on another level.
I don't know why people keep saying Max was stronger than Natsu, or that Natsu couldn't keep up with Max or whatever. The fight lasted 30 seconds, the moment Natsu got serious Max resigned and admitted Natsu was on another level.
Max was overwhelming Base Natsu easily and had to resort to LFDM to overpower Max. When people say Natsu wasn't on Max's level they are referring to base Natsu at the time.
Max was overwhelming Base Natsu easily and had to resort to LFDM to overpower Max. When people say Natsu wasn't on Max's level they are referring to base Natsu at the time.
I'm not saying you're wrong or that everyone sharing your opinion is wrong. I just see it differently.
I watched the fight again (anime, i was lazy to search for the scan). Here's what happened:
1) Natsu went carelessly at Max, Max dodged the punch and kicked Natsu.
2) Max says he trained, Lucy and Wendy are like "omg Natsu can't beat Max??"
How ridiculous is that. After one counter-attack from Max, stating Natsu can't beat him.
The comments (and the whole fight tbh) underlines how muuch Max trained and how he can now put up a fight against Natsu. That's the reason behind those far-fetched comments "Natsu can't beat Max??", which i disagree with. Base Natsu CAN beat Max, he's just over confident.
3) Natsu went carelessly at Max yet again, trying to punch him several times with regular punches. Max dodges and casts a Sand Rebellion. The spell touches Natsu - no real damage though. Natsu burns the Sand.
4) Natsu's fire Punch VS Max's Sand. Nobody has the upper hand. Max is shown full of confidence contrary to Natsu.
Max's friends comments: "Max is overpowering Natsu!!" Yet again i see it differently. Natsu has taken close to no damage, Max has taken zero damage. That's it. Natsu is struggling because he massively under estimated Max's training results.
5) Natsu enters his new mode launches a spell, Max surrenders.
Alright so let's not talk about Natsu's ligthning mode, he's clearly superior to Max. The point is about Base Natsu.
Imo this fight was nothing at all. There was only punch attempts from Natsu, no spell no roar, nothing.
I see it like that: Natsu full of confidence goes to beat Max like he usually does, by going straigth at him and punch him. That doesn't work, but he doesn't realize its not enough so he tries again. It fails again. He then tries to punch Max, again, with fire Max counters it with Sand and they are equal.
Natsu is pissed off because he can't touch Max, and Max keeps taunting him with "now that i trained even you are no match for me". Natsu is fed up, goes new mode to one shot the fool.
Natsu's overconfidence turns into surprise and even angriness since his pride is touched. Max is full of confidence. Comments from outsiders are ridiculous.
But besides those three things. The fight itself, wasn't overwhelming. Like,neither of them took damage, it lasted 20 seconds........... I definitely dont see it like Max overpowered Natsu, at all
I understand your reasoning, @Takuan, but I still think Max > Base Tenrou Natsu. Max is pretty much on the defensive and is taking Base Natsu's attacks which are not affecting him at all. Also in this manga growth ratio is ridiculous so 7 years training for a fodder allow him to close the gap between himself and a high tier character. So put Natsu to sleep and give Max 7 years of hard training again, he comes back more powerful than current base Natsu.
I get your point though, and I respect it. But none of the two was fighting at full power, base Natsu was only going with an array of cqc which Max easily dodged and he only kicked Natsu once. The fight could've gone more serious for both parties and I'd still see Max having the upper hand.
I think we can safely assume current Fairy Tail fodders (Nab, Max, Laki, etc.) have far surpassed O6 members (as they were back in O6) and probably some of the kin as well. It's been 8 years after all, they seem to have trained hard. But still, kin level is currently utter fodder so they're still fodders, hahahaha
Macao and Wakaba are exceptions since they're past their prime and they don't seem to have trained. I'd actually have liked to see something worthy of the title of the master from Macao tbh but fodders are gonna be fodders right?
@Char
I don't know dude. I understand your point dont worry, and i agree to a certain extent.
But FT has been said to have struggled when team Natsu disappeared. Even if they trained, they kept finishing last during GMG every time, and were getting disrespected by that fodder guild whose name i don't remember. Twilight Ogre or something.
The name of FT became shameful because they were so weak and pathetic.
Maybe Max was one of the elites of these fodders, and him alone wasn't enough to carry the entire guild. But still.
If Max was as strong as Base Natsu, why wouldn't he participate in the GMG? He'd be better than Elfman or Cana if that was the case, yet he kept being on the side with other fodders.
In episode 152 of the anime (sorry too lazy to look for the manga :P) Carla says: but if you're so strong (referring to Max and co), Ogre shouldn't have had any possibility against you.
Vijeteer replies: You might be right...
Wakaba: but it was a matter of economic issues.
Nab: Not something you can solve with sheer strength, right?
To which Lucy replies: Well, the master ended up solving it with strength, didn't he? (xDDD)
So FT didn't struggle because of strength issues but rather because of economic issues.
As for the GMG, who knows... maybe it's expensive? Maybe bureaucracy/paperwork that Macao didn't fill in properly... Maybe pre-tests that they didn't pass (I recall that before the GMG per se there was like a labyrinth or something and actually Team A FT ended LAST!!!!! (and I mean, Natsu+Erza+Lucy+Gray+Elfman!)
So I guess this was pretty much an answer from Mashima to possible questions like: wait what? Max was that strong they still were disrespected by Ogre like that? Well I guess Max could pretty much take on Ogre by himself tbh but yeah, Mashima decides to go with the "economic issues" path...
In episode 152 of the anime (sorry too lazy to look for the manga :P) Carla says: but if you're so strong (referring to Max and co), Ogre shouldn't have had any possibility against you.
Vijeteer replies: You might be right...
Wakaba: but it was a matter of economic issues.
Nab: Not something you can solve with sheer strength, right?
To which Lucy replies: Well, the master ended up solving it with strength, didn't he? (xDDD)
So FT didn't struggle because of strength issues but rather because of economic issues.
As for the GMG, who knows... maybe it's expensive? Maybe bureaucracy/paperwork that Macao didn't fill in properly... Maybe pre-tests that they didn't pass (I recall that before the GMG per se there was like a labyrinth or something and actually Team A FT ended LAST!!!!! (and I mean, Natsu+Erza+Lucy+Gray+Elfman!)
So I guess this was pretty much an answer from Mashima to possible questions like: wait what? Max was that strong they still were disrespected by Ogre like that? Well I guess Max could pretty much take on Ogre by himself tbh but yeah, Mashima decides to go with the "economic issues" path...
Mmh... I don't remember this talking about economical issues. I thought the economical issues were actually caused by Twilight Ogre, after TO lended money to FT. The taxes afterward caused FT to be even more in the red.
But if that was stated i guess i can only agree...
I still disagree about Max being superior to Base Natsu but yeah.
I mean... Base Natsu overpowered (THAT is what i call overpowered or overwhelmed) DF Sting and DF Rogue. Granted it was thanks to Second Origin, but SO is said to be equal to 3 months of training if i recall correctly.
I don't see Max after these 7 years, training for 3 more months and stomping DF Sting and DF Rogue, as Natsu did.
Also Gajeel and Natsu were getting owned by DF Sting. This stomp is way superior to what Max did against Natsu we can agree. Natsu AND Gajeel were getting destroyed by DF Sting. Yet, when Natsu stood back up and fought seriously, he demolished both DF Sting and DF Rogue.
If the Max VS Natsu fight lasted longer, there's no reason to believe Max would have had the upper hand only because Natsu struggled a bit with him during 20 seconds.
Anyway, i don't think i'm going to convince anyone and eventhough i get and respect your points, i'm probably not going to agree with Max > Base Natsu.
So i guess we'll have to agree to disagree :P
The thing is, SO seemed to close that 7 year gap between Tenrou Natsu and GMG Natsu so GMG Natsu is plainly vastly superior to Tenrou Natsu. It actually took one hit to KO Max after his SO I think.
So yeah Max being >= Base Tenrou Natsu and GMG Natsu being > DF Twin Dragons doesn't seem so inconsistant to me because we're talking completely different leagues here.
I agree with you though that had Max vs Natsu's brawl lasted longer, maybe Natsu would've come out victorious, but the truth is that he rushed, he got nervous and he activated LFDM to end quickly (which drained all of his MP hehe)
So I don't want you to feel like you don't have a point because you do, technically Max was portrayed as > Tenrou Base Natsu but you're right that fight was not too conclusive. It was more of a means to demonstrate that pre-ts mid-high tiers = post-ts fodders.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I repost this, now without the spoiler tag
My balanced logical ranking
1. August - Not only has he been stated to be the strongest s12 individual by Makarov, he's also been stated so by Dimaria, his level of MP has been praised by the likes of Natsu, Lucy, Mest or Mavis
2. Irene - Obvious reasons: he's the female counterpart of August. Not only does she have vast amounts of MP capable of making Mira or Mavis completely unsettled but also, her enchanting is very dangerous, granted that she can turn anyone pretty much into anything.
3. Larcade - As you know, not only has he been hyped to be a 'secret weapon' to destroy Acno, or to have an abnormal magic nature by Mavis, but the fact he can pretty much instakill upon looking at the target is pretty hax. Ofc I don't know how his magic works but since he seems to permanently have his hands glued together, I don't really know the mechanism of activation of his hax so for now I'll assume it's just upon looking the target
4. Dimaria - You all know what I think of Dimaria, granted that her Age Seal is virtually instantenous and there's no counter at the moment, if it weren't because the three above her have been hyped to above the clouds I'd still have her the first one.
5. Brandish - I always hesitate whether to put her 5th, 7th or 12th; probably because she's pretty much featless. Still her island level feat + haxy magic which can pretty much kill you instantly if she decides to modify the size of a vital organ makes her top-notch.
6. God Serena - For those who generally read my posts you'll know that I'm a GS fan, but being logical here, he cannot plausibly be above Dimaria, but I don't think he should be below. He's been capable of fodderize 4 arguably powerful wizards with such ease, unscratched, and not even going all out; he also seems to have a wide variety of magic: 8 DS magic specialties (mastered at a high level) + his base mode magic which was already capable of subjugating the GoI.
7. Bradman - His MBP are pretty hax especially for close quarters combat since he's pretty much going to kill anyone who gets close enough. Also if you ask me, the ability to posess and use all the Tartaros curses grants him a wide variety of attacks of different range and effect, + hax.
8. Jacob - Stealth is indeed deadly, but his spatial magic... Although we don't know the exact physics of it, if anyone who enters his dimension is powerless, then he must be pretty damn strong!
9. Neinheart - Due to the fact he can summon up to 3 spriggan-level mages, which is pretty impressive. He can probably even summon someone of the caliber of August too. However logic tells me not to put him 1st because 1: August/Irene haven't died yet so they cannot be summoned and 2: His durability seems crappy and his statement during this chapter corroborates it since he needs to be protected
10. Invel - His magic is pretty hyped but I can see no apparent hax. He can freeze anyone instantly but so could Silver. Also, he seems to be able to freeze minds to 'thicken' thought but well, Brandish can literally make your brain disappear so, yeah. I think he's going to be the most proficient Ice user seen to date, but again, since the other spriggans are tooo haxy, it's hard to be on their level.
11. Wahl - I'm not too sure whether he should be 11 or 12. This dude is all firepower. He's top notch when it comes to guns and weapons. But his lack of hax, the fact he was defeated by someone to whose magic he was immune... Makes me thing he's no big deal tbh.
12. Ajeel - He's severely underrated but sadly his lack of instantaneous hax (his hax requires to be in physical contact with his victim, and it's not instantanous as it takes some time to dehidrate the victim) tells me he didn't show anything too impressive. His speed is considerable but he was blitzed a couple of times by Erza. He also proved to be very weak to his counter elements, wind and water, so I wouldn't be surprised if a team like Wendy and Juvia could put him down high difficulty. Sandworld is his most impressive feat, but a mage like Natsu is going to burn his sand, a mage like Wendy is going to disperse it, a mage like Gajeel is going to tank his blows with his steel, a mage like Juvia can probably render the sand ineffective, and so on.
Before bashing my list, please read my comments The level of hax of most comments makes them diff to place them. For example, Should Dimaria be above Larcade? Which activates first, her age seal or his ability to pull souls out? etc. etc.
Hax vs feat list:
1. Neinhart - Since he can likely summon literally any mage (save for acno?) who's dead, if anyone from the 12 dies and he can summon them. If August dies and Neinhart summons him, then Neinhart is automatically the strongest spriggan.
2. Larcade - Looks to me like his hax is released upon looking at the target, then he's the strongest spriggan for me unless he dies and Neinhart can summon him
3. Dimaria - Obvious reasons
4. Brandish - Also obvious reasons, aforementioned
5. Irene - If her enchanting takes less time than Jacob's spatial magic, then he goes before.
6. Jacob - His hax is as haxy as the others' but it takes more time to activate.
7. Bradman - You can be as powerful as you want, you can be August for that matter, but since they haven't been shown to be capable of countering his MBP/intangibility, I don't know how they're gonna defeat him. Also, macro + NLF = he's as strong as fast he is at activating macro. I think it takes more time to use Macro than Jacob's spatial magic (I recall you had to utter your order) in which case his hax is slower than the above haxes.
8. August - Hyped to the max, still, no apparent hax showed whatsoever
9. God Serena - Because he's a melee fighter and hax beats melee.
10. Invel - Similar to GS, although we don't know much about him.
11. Wahl - Same as GS
12. Ajeel - Same as GS. He does posess hax but it's too slow.
The thing is, SO seemed to close that 7 year gap between Tenrou Natsu and GMG Natsu so GMG Natsu is plainly vastly superior to Tenrou Natsu. It actually took one hit to KO Max after his SO I think.
So yeah Max being >= Base Tenrou Natsu and GMG Natsu being > DF Twin Dragons doesn't seem so inconsistant to me because we're talking completely different leagues here.
I agree with you though that had Max vs Natsu's brawl lasted longer, maybe Natsu would've come out victorious, but the truth is that he rushed, he got nervous and he activated LFDM to end quickly (which drained all of his MP hehe)
So I don't want you to feel like you don't have a point because you do, technically Max was portrayed as > Tenrou Base Natsu but you're right that fight was not too conclusive. It was more of a means to demonstrate that pre-ts mid-high tiers = post-ts fodders.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I repost this, now without the spoiler tag
My balanced logical ranking
1. August - Not only has he been stated to be the strongest s12 individual by Makarov, he's also been stated so by Dimaria, his level of MP has been praised by the likes of Natsu, Lucy, Mest or Mavis
2. Irene - Obvious reasons: he's the female counterpart of August. Not only does she have vast amounts of MP capable of making Mira or Mavis completely unsettled but also, her enchanting is very dangerous, granted that she can turn anyone pretty much into anything.
3. Larcade - As you know, not only has he been hyped to be a 'secret weapon' to destroy Acno, or to have an abnormal magic nature by Mavis, but the fact he can pretty much instakill upon looking at the target is pretty hax. Ofc I don't know how his magic works but since he seems to permanently have his hands glued together, I don't really know the mechanism of activation of his hax so for now I'll assume it's just upon looking the target
4. Dimaria - You all know what I think of Dimaria, granted that her Age Seal is virtually instantenous and there's no counter at the moment, if it weren't because the three above her have been hyped to above the clouds I'd still have her the first one.
5. Brandish - I always hesitate whether to put her 5th, 7th or 12th; probably because she's pretty much featless. Still her island level feat + haxy magic which can pretty much kill you instantly if she decides to modify the size of a vital organ makes her top-notch.
6. God Serena - For those who generally read my posts you'll know that I'm a GS fan, but being logical here, he cannot plausibly be above Dimaria, but I don't think he should be below. He's been capable of fodderize 4 arguably powerful wizards with such ease, unscratched, and not even going all out; he also seems to have a wide variety of magic: 8 DS magic specialties (mastered at a high level) + his base mode magic which was already capable of subjugating the GoI.
7. Bradman - His MBP are pretty hax especially for close quarters combat since he's pretty much going to kill anyone who gets close enough. Also if you ask me, the ability to posess and use all the Tartaros curses grants him a wide variety of attacks of different range and effect, + hax.
8. Jacob - Stealth is indeed deadly, but his spatial magic... Although we don't know the exact physics of it, if anyone who enters his dimension is powerless, then he must be pretty damn strong!
9. Neinheart - Due to the fact he can summon up to 3 spriggan-level mages, which is pretty impressive. He can probably even summon someone of the caliber of August too. However logic tells me not to put him 1st because 1: August/Irene haven't died yet so they cannot be summoned and 2: His durability seems crappy and his statement during this chapter corroborates it since he needs to be protected
10. Invel - His magic is pretty hyped but I can see no apparent hax. He can freeze anyone instantly but so could Silver. Also, he seems to be able to freeze minds to 'thicken' thought but well, Brandish can literally make your brain disappear so, yeah. I think he's going to be the most proficient Ice user seen to date, but again, since the other spriggans are tooo haxy, it's hard to be on their level.
11. Wahl - I'm not too sure whether he should be 11 or 12. This dude is all firepower. He's top notch when it comes to guns and weapons. But his lack of hax, the fact he was defeated by someone to whose magic he was immune... Makes me thing he's no big deal tbh.
12. Ajeel - He's severely underrated but sadly his lack of instantaneous hax (his hax requires to be in physical contact with his victim, and it's not instantanous as it takes some time to dehidrate the victim) tells me he didn't show anything too impressive. His speed is considerable but he was blitzed a couple of times by Erza. He also proved to be very weak to his counter elements, wind and water, so I wouldn't be surprised if a team like Wendy and Juvia could put him down high difficulty. Sandworld is his most impressive feat, but a mage like Natsu is going to burn his sand, a mage like Wendy is going to disperse it, a mage like Gajeel is going to tank his blows with his steel, a mage like Juvia can probably render the sand ineffective, and so on.
Before bashing my list, please read my comments The level of hax of most comments makes them diff to place them. For example, Should Dimaria be above Larcade? Which activates first, her age seal or his ability to pull souls out? etc. etc.
Hax vs feat list:
1. Neinhart - Since he can likely summon literally any mage (save for acno?) who's dead, if anyone from the 12 dies and he can summon them. If August dies and Neinhart summons him, then Neinhart is automatically the strongest spriggan.
2. Larcade - Looks to me like his hax is released upon looking at the target, then he's the strongest spriggan for me unless he dies and Neinhart can summon him
3. Dimaria - Obvious reasons
4. Brandish - Also obvious reasons, aforementioned
5. Irene - If her enchanting takes less time than Jacob's spatial magic, then he goes before.
6. Jacob - His hax is as haxy as the others' but it takes more time to activate.
7. Bradman - You can be as powerful as you want, you can be August for that matter, but since they haven't been shown to be capable of countering his MBP/intangibility, I don't know how they're gonna defeat him. Also, macro + NLF = he's as strong as fast he is at activating macro. I think it takes more time to use Macro than Jacob's spatial magic (I recall you had to utter your order) in which case his hax is slower than the above haxes.
8. August - Hyped to the max, still, no apparent hax showed whatsoever
9. God Serena - Because he's a melee fighter and hax beats melee.
10. Invel - Similar to GS, although we don't know much about him.
11. Wahl - Same as GS
12. Ajeel - Same as GS. He does posess hax but it's too slow.
Decent list there bud ^
This list will always be changing as we get more feats and information on each Spriggan
As for Larcade, it interests me that he's the only one of the Spriggan 12 that Zeref has actually praised (Correct me if i'm wrong cause he might have praised Irene), so that seems to me that Larcade is the only S12 worth his praise and attention
The thing is, SO seemed to close that 7 year gap between Tenrou Natsu and GMG Natsu so GMG Natsu is plainly vastly superior to Tenrou Natsu. It actually took one hit to KO Max after his SO I think.
So yeah Max being >= Base Tenrou Natsu and GMG Natsu being > DF Twin Dragons doesn't seem so inconsistant to me because we're talking completely different leagues here.
I agree with you though that had Max vs Natsu's brawl lasted longer, maybe Natsu would've come out victorious, but the truth is that he rushed, he got nervous and he activated LFDM to end quickly (which drained all of his MP hehe)
So I don't want you to feel like you don't have a point because you do, technically Max was portrayed as > Tenrou Base Natsu but you're right that fight was not too conclusive. It was more of a means to demonstrate that pre-ts mid-high tiers = post-ts fodders.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I repost this, now without the spoiler tag
My balanced logical ranking
1. August - Not only has he been stated to be the strongest s12 individual by Makarov, he's also been stated so by Dimaria, his level of MP has been praised by the likes of Natsu, Lucy, Mest or Mavis
2. Irene - Obvious reasons: he's the female counterpart of August. Not only does she have vast amounts of MP capable of making Mira or Mavis completely unsettled but also, her enchanting is very dangerous, granted that she can turn anyone pretty much into anything.
3. Larcade - As you know, not only has he been hyped to be a 'secret weapon' to destroy Acno, or to have an abnormal magic nature by Mavis, but the fact he can pretty much instakill upon looking at the target is pretty hax. Ofc I don't know how his magic works but since he seems to permanently have his hands glued together, I don't really know the mechanism of activation of his hax so for now I'll assume it's just upon looking the target
4. Dimaria - You all know what I think of Dimaria, granted that her Age Seal is virtually instantenous and there's no counter at the moment, if it weren't because the three above her have been hyped to above the clouds I'd still have her the first one.
5. Brandish - I always hesitate whether to put her 5th, 7th or 12th; probably because she's pretty much featless. Still her island level feat + haxy magic which can pretty much kill you instantly if she decides to modify the size of a vital organ makes her top-notch.
6. God Serena - For those who generally read my posts you'll know that I'm a GS fan, but being logical here, he cannot plausibly be above Dimaria, but I don't think he should be below. He's been capable of fodderize 4 arguably powerful wizards with such ease, unscratched, and not even going all out; he also seems to have a wide variety of magic: 8 DS magic specialties (mastered at a high level) + his base mode magic which was already capable of subjugating the GoI.
7. Bradman - His MBP are pretty hax especially for close quarters combat since he's pretty much going to kill anyone who gets close enough. Also if you ask me, the ability to posess and use all the Tartaros curses grants him a wide variety of attacks of different range and effect, + hax.
8. Jacob - Stealth is indeed deadly, but his spatial magic... Although we don't know the exact physics of it, if anyone who enters his dimension is powerless, then he must be pretty damn strong!
9. Neinheart - Due to the fact he can summon up to 3 spriggan-level mages, which is pretty impressive. He can probably even summon someone of the caliber of August too. However logic tells me not to put him 1st because 1: August/Irene haven't died yet so they cannot be summoned and 2: His durability seems crappy and his statement during this chapter corroborates it since he needs to be protected
10. Invel - His magic is pretty hyped but I can see no apparent hax. He can freeze anyone instantly but so could Silver. Also, he seems to be able to freeze minds to 'thicken' thought but well, Brandish can literally make your brain disappear so, yeah. I think he's going to be the most proficient Ice user seen to date, but again, since the other spriggans are tooo haxy, it's hard to be on their level.
11. Wahl - I'm not too sure whether he should be 11 or 12. This dude is all firepower. He's top notch when it comes to guns and weapons. But his lack of hax, the fact he was defeated by someone to whose magic he was immune... Makes me thing he's no big deal tbh.
12. Ajeel - He's severely underrated but sadly his lack of instantaneous hax (his hax requires to be in physical contact with his victim, and it's not instantanous as it takes some time to dehidrate the victim) tells me he didn't show anything too impressive. His speed is considerable but he was blitzed a couple of times by Erza. He also proved to be very weak to his counter elements, wind and water, so I wouldn't be surprised if a team like Wendy and Juvia could put him down high difficulty. Sandworld is his most impressive feat, but a mage like Natsu is going to burn his sand, a mage like Wendy is going to disperse it, a mage like Gajeel is going to tank his blows with his steel, a mage like Juvia can probably render the sand ineffective, and so on.
Before bashing my list, please read my comments The level of hax of most comments makes them diff to place them. For example, Should Dimaria be above Larcade? Which activates first, her age seal or his ability to pull souls out? etc. etc.
Hax vs feat list:
1. Neinhart - Since he can likely summon literally any mage (save for acno?) who's dead, if anyone from the 12 dies and he can summon them. If August dies and Neinhart summons him, then Neinhart is automatically the strongest spriggan.
2. Larcade - Looks to me like his hax is released upon looking at the target, then he's the strongest spriggan for me unless he dies and Neinhart can summon him
3. Dimaria - Obvious reasons
4. Brandish - Also obvious reasons, aforementioned
5. Irene - If her enchanting takes less time than Jacob's spatial magic, then he goes before.
6. Jacob - His hax is as haxy as the others' but it takes more time to activate.
7. Bradman - You can be as powerful as you want, you can be August for that matter, but since they haven't been shown to be capable of countering his MBP/intangibility, I don't know how they're gonna defeat him. Also, macro + NLF = he's as strong as fast he is at activating macro. I think it takes more time to use Macro than Jacob's spatial magic (I recall you had to utter your order) in which case his hax is slower than the above haxes.
8. August - Hyped to the max, still, no apparent hax showed whatsoever
9. God Serena - Because he's a melee fighter and hax beats melee.
10. Invel - Similar to GS, although we don't know much about him.
11. Wahl - Same as GS
12. Ajeel - Same as GS. He does posess hax but it's too slow.
Although I obviously agree with your top 3, I'd like to disagree with some things.
In the first place, Brandish isn't featless. She did stab August, which is already a notable feat, and she has shown that she can pretty much regenerate using her Mass Manipulation.
Then, I think you're slightly overrating Bradman, since Ajeel and Wahl both have a counter for his Magical Barrier Particles (intangibily + Sand World and robot physiology, respectively) and they arguably have better DC feats than him. I consider trashing Erza and facing Laxus head-on better feats than being on par with base Gajeel and being completely trashed by DF Gajeel even after going all out.
And Jacob isn't really that impressive compared to Ajeel and Wahl. I don't see Jacob facing Laxus like Wahl did. Jacob is much slower than Wahl/Laxus and his BFR spell has a small range and its casting time isn't all that amazing, plus his DC feats are way inferior to Wahl's. As for why I think Ajeel should be above, it relies on the fact that Sand World counters Transport while Jacob has no counter for Sand World.
I also think you're underestimating Invel, because Invel has been portayed to be much higher than the likes of Jacob or Bradman, since he's Zeref's right hand man, he instantly froze someone like Mavis, he managed to control Mavis' mind when we know that Mavis has a huge amount of Magic Power. Besides, he created large amounts of ice and he made the weather change in the last chapter, and although we don't know if he had prep or if it was casual, he didn't seem tired prior to that.
I disagree with Neinheart's position too since, although his magic power is huge, he can't really use those Historias in combat when someone like Bradman would just one-shot him with his particles or when he can't handle Wahl's attacks because his other stats are too low.
And I think I've already addressed why Wahl and Ajeel should be higher. Ajeel has Sand World, intangibility and he pretty much trashed Erza, and Wahl has the same stats as Laxus.
Larcade doesn't have enough to warrant him being placed above August and Irene at the moment. Potential to defeat Acnologia is a rather broad statement, For one, the emphasis is on potential. Secondly, we don't know how he'd even go about it. For all we know he could just have a specific type of magic that exploits a certain weakness of Acnologia.
Essentially there's too many unknowns in that statement to use it and it alone to place him above two other Spriggan who've been hyped for a while now, and in August's case, since the beginning of the arc.
