Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

Which side are you on?

  • Team Spriggan 12

    Votes: 48 51.6%
  • Team Diabolos/Dragon Eaters

    Votes: 45 48.4%

  • Total voters
    93

Spirit

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Larcade doesn't have enough to warrant him being placed above August and Irene at the moment. Potential to defeat Acnologia is a rather broad statement, For one, the emphasis is on potential. Secondly, we don't know how he'd even go about it. For all we know he could just have a specific type of magic that exploits a certain weakness of Acnologia.

Essentially there's too many unknowns in that statement to use it and it alone to place him above two other Spriggan who've been hyped for a while now, and in August's case, since the beginning of the arc.
I guess you're right...Larcade has almost no feats and all we have on his raw ability is hearsay and praise from Zeref. Still, I think it's safe to say that at the very least, Larcade is up near the level of Irene and August. Just a guess, but a predictable guess
 

The President

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Larcade has the potential to defeat Acnologia but he's not a DS. That means his magic is powerful enough to bypass a dragons magic resistance AND hurt ACNOLOGIA at the same time. However something tells me he can't beat him in a straight up fight, its probably something to do with FH.

August has been praised as the strongest mage by two characters, knows more magic then any other character and has the same level of MP as Irene. Not to mention he's the leader of the 12 (although I know that doesn't always correlate to power). August really should be given the benefit of the doubt over Irene.
 

Spirit

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Larcade has the potential to defeat Acnologia but he's not a DS. That means his magic is powerful enough to bypass a dragons magic resistance AND hurt ACNOLOGIA at the same time. However something tells me he can't beat him in a straight up fight, its probably something to do with FH.

August has been praised as the strongest mage by two characters, knows more magic then any other character and has the same level of MP as Irene. Not to mention he's the leader of the 12 (although I know that doesn't always correlate to power). August really should be given the benefit of the doubt over Irene.
It's frustrating because this arc is slow. We've seen a very little amount of feats from the strongest of the S12. If August really does know even more than Zeref, he will have many unheard of spells so i think he has a one up over Irene also
 

Char

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I already addressed this in another post, but it had been deleted by a mod because of spoiler rules so:

Although I obviously agree with your top 3, I'd like to disagree with some things.
In the first place, Brandish isn't featless. She did stab August, which is already a notable feat, and she has shown that she can pretty much regenerate using her Mass Manipulation.
Then, I think you're slightly overrating Bradman, since Ajeel and Wahl both have a counter for his Magical Barrier Particles (intangibily + Sand World and robot physiology, respectively) and they arguably have better DC feats than him. I consider trashing Erza and facing Laxus head-on better feats than being on par with base Gajeel and being completely trashed by DF Gajeel even after going all out.
And Jacob isn't really that impressive compared to Ajeel and Wahl. I don't see Jacob facing Laxus like Wahl did. Jacob is much slower than Wahl/Laxus and his BFR spell has a small range and its casting time isn't all that amazing, plus his DC feats are way inferior to Wahl's. As for why I think Ajeel should be above, it relies on the fact that Sand World counters Transport while Jacob has no counter for Sand World.
I also think you're underestimating Invel, because Invel has been portayed to be much higher than the likes of Jacob or Bradman, since he's Zeref's right hand man, he instantly froze someone like Mavis, he managed to control Mavis' mind when we know that Mavis has a huge amount of Magic Power. Besides, he created large amounts of ice and he made the weather change in the last chapter, and although we don't know if he had prep or if it was casual, he didn't seem tired prior to that.
I disagree with Neinheart's position too since, although his magic power is huge, he can't really use those Historias in combat when someone like Bradman would just one-shot him with his particles or when he can't handle Wahl's attacks because his other stats are too low.
And I think I've already addressed why Wahl and Ajeel should be higher. Ajeel has Sand World, intangibility and he pretty much trashed Erza, and Wahl has the same stats as Laxus.

I don't really know what the second list is, but these are my thoughts on the first list.
Yeah I answered your comments but they were deleted too.

Anyway:

- Brandish is not featless but she almost is indeed. I'm not taking into account her stabbing feat, that says nothing about her power really. All I'm taking into account is that she is an island buster AT LEAST, that she's a top healer and even maybe can regenerate tissue. The most interesting feat of hers is the fact she can pinpoint and shrink/enlarge any organ in your body. So if she manages to alter the size of any organ of her enemy, their body will stop to function properly. In the worst case scenario she can probably shrink a heart/brain to the point it's no longer there which means she can instakill.

- I'm not overrating BRadman really, it's not that I like him a lot either, but his powers are clearly OP. Not only does he posess the curses of the whole bunch of enemies of the previous arc, some of which are too hax (Macro), she also has got MBP so that automatically means CQC specialists are not going to be suitable to fight him. He is versatile, has a wide variety of curse types, and he's got two dangerous hax. Probably can also cast alegria or memento mori so... That should pretty much justify why he's in that position. Why not higher? Because against Gajeel he did not show the shrewdness to use his best tricks and he ended up losing when he could've won rather fast so that tells me he shouldn't be higher.

- Ajeel cannot counter his MBP.

- Wahl can probably counter his MBP, but he's not going to be able to harm him, whereas Bradman is going to be able to do so.

- Bradman was not on par with base Gajeel, he was vastly superior. Also, it's debatable whether Bradman went all out against DF Gajeel because I think he could've used one of his hax (macro, alegria, etc.) but he didn't. So either he was too overwhelmed by DF Gajeel that he couldn't think clearly and activate such curses, or he is just plainly dumb (which downplays his aptitudes).

- Jacob may not be as impressive as Ajeel or Wahl but if he can send them into their dimension and they happen to be powerless there, then he's simply superior, because they're not gonna have time to escape the range of his transport (probably). And if they can he can probably use stealth to get close enough and use transport then.

- Laxus is one character which is so fast that I can see him speedblitzing Jacob and outclassing him (being faster than him clapping and oneshotting him), but that doesn't mean that he should be below Wahl, it just means Laxus is not a proper matchup for Jacob. But still, the fact Jacob is slower (although we haven't seen any significant speed feat from him) does not mean he cannot beat Ajeel, Wahl or Laxus since let's remember all he probably needs is to join his hands.

- Sand World is not a counter for transport.

- I'm not underestimating Invel but I think he's the most featless Spriggan of yet so I don't know where to class him. He seems the cqc type, an OP version of Gray if you ask me, and hax > cqc, generally. Invel instafroze Mavis but so what, so did Silver (to Natsu) and then I've read Invel froze Mavis' thoughts but I think it was that collar that he put on her which was restricting or thickening her thinking, but even if he could 'freeze' her thoughts that only means he can actually make your organs colder/freeze them which is normal considering he masters ice, but I still think shrinking a heart to the point it doesn't exist is > freezing it (since freezing it doesn't guarantee instadeath as we already saw).

- Invel being Zeref's right hand man only means he may be the most rational one, or he prefers the office work, not that he's stronger or more reliable than any other spriggan. We already know he's badly outclassed by August, Irene and probably Larcade.

- He made the weather change but so did Irene, Sandworld affected a whole city, Brandish shrunk a whole island, even Jellal was able to change the sky characteristics. That he made the weather colder/snowy does not hype him much IMHO.

- If you mean Neinheart should be below Bradman because although he can summon him, Bradman cannot fight by his side because God Serena would be affected by his MBP, then I guess you've got a point. But that applies to all other spriggan. I mean it's not like even August is immune to MBP (I guess...) so... Also Neinhart may have the ability to be "immune" to his creations (who knows?) or he may create a battle strategy in which he's directly protected by the cqc types and the dangerous types fight from a distance. I mean the fact that he can summon 3 spriggans IMO makes him as strong as 3 spriggans at the same time which is even higher than August IMO. He can probably even summon August upon his death so that's why I put him first in the second list.

- Wahl is below Laxus since he was defeated by Laxus even when Wahl was literally Laxus' counter (not affected by lightning) and he was injured and trashed before the fight ever began so yeah.
 

Crimson Ice

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I see it competely differently.

I'm not saying you're wrong or that everyone sharing your opinion is wrong. I just see it differently.

I watched the fight again (anime, i was lazy to search for the scan). Here's what happened:
1) Natsu went carelessly at Max, Max dodged the punch and kicked Natsu.
2) Max says he trained, Lucy and Wendy are like "omg Natsu can't beat Max??"
How ridiculous is that. After one counter-attack from Max, stating Natsu can't beat him.
The comments (and the whole fight tbh) underlines how muuch Max trained and how he can now put up a fight against Natsu. That's the reason behind those far-fetched comments "Natsu can't beat Max??", which i disagree with. Base Natsu CAN beat Max, he's just over confident.
3) Natsu went carelessly at Max yet again, trying to punch him several times with regular punches. Max dodges and casts a Sand Rebellion. The spell touches Natsu - no real damage though. Natsu burns the Sand.
4) Natsu's fire Punch VS Max's Sand. Nobody has the upper hand. Max is shown full of confidence contrary to Natsu.
Max's friends comments: "Max is overpowering Natsu!!" Yet again i see it differently. Natsu has taken close to no damage, Max has taken zero damage. That's it. Natsu is struggling because he massively under estimated Max's training results.

5) Natsu enters his new mode launches a spell, Max surrenders.

Alright so let's not talk about Natsu's ligthning mode, he's clearly superior to Max. The point is about Base Natsu.
Imo this fight was nothing at all. There was only punch attempts from Natsu, no spell no roar, nothing.
I see it like that: Natsu full of confidence goes to beat Max like he usually does, by going straigth at him and punch him. That doesn't work, but he doesn't realize its not enough so he tries again. It fails again. He then tries to punch Max, again, with fire Max counters it with Sand and they are equal.
Natsu is pissed off because he can't touch Max, and Max keeps taunting him with "now that i trained even you are no match for me". Natsu is fed up, goes new mode to one shot the fool.

Natsu's overconfidence turns into surprise and even angriness since his pride is touched. Max is full of confidence. Comments from outsiders are ridiculous.
But besides those three things. The fight itself, wasn't overwhelming. Like,neither of them took damage, it lasted 20 seconds........... I definitely dont see it like Max overpowered Natsu, at all

Natsu had literally already been bested once by Max in the manga when we're shown the fight so unless Natsu is an idiot and wasn't serious against a guy who had already bested him your point isn't really valid:

http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/259/2


Natsu was serious against Max and even if he wasn't at first he was when he put up Sand Wall hence why he's sweating and actually resorts to LFDM, something he doesn't use unless he needs to. Nothing from that fight at all indicates Base Natsu was near Max, not even close. Nor does the fight imply Natsu wasn't serious especially when he was straining himself, heck the whole point of the fight was to show how far everyone fell behind in the seven years if Max was overpowering Natsu.
 

Brandish μ

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My opinion on Larcade being able to deal with Acnologia rests with Acno reaping souls of dragons and Larcade's magic related to souls. If Acno's power is partly fueled by reaped souls, and Larcade sets him free, then Acnologia would become weaker. Then either FH+Zeref or the dragon slayers might be strong enough to defeat him.

I actually thought Wendy's Milky Way would be used on Acnologia, it's kind of the DS magic of what I think Larcade is capable of.

I'm not sure if FH will be used on Acno though. From the last chapter it seems dangerous. I think DF Natsu will be the main player in defeating Acnologia because that's the obvious choice from a narrative standpoint. I'm not really sure on FH's role.
 

Boomburst

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Natsu had literally already been bested once by Max in the manga when we're shown the fight so unless Natsu is an idiot and wasn't serious against a guy who had already bested him your point isn't really valid:

http://www.mangapanda.com/fairy-tail/259/2


Natsu was serious against Max and even if he wasn't at first he was when he put up Sand Wall hence why he's sweating and actually resorts to LFDM, something he doesn't use unless he needs to. Nothing from that fight at all indicates Base Natsu was near Max, not even close. Nor does the fight imply Natsu wasn't serious especially when he was straining himself, heck the whole point of the fight was to show how far everyone fell behind in the seven years if Max was overpowering Natsu.
Dude I don't even know how you can count that as being "bested". All Max did was dodge an attack and kick him twice. It's not like Natsu really took any damage from that anyways.

And no, Max wasn't overpowering Natsu. Natsu broke out of his Sand Rebellion quite easily and from that point on Max was on the defensive. Just because Natsu wasn't able to break through Sand Wall with his punch doesn't mean that he was being overpowered. It's a wall. It's not supposed to be something that can be easily broken through.

I definitely wouldn't call LFDM a last resort. Natsu didn't even know he could do that until this fight, he was probably just trying it out and seeing if it would work. Not to mention the fact that at that point in the battle he was getting seriously annoyed and he probably just entered it out of rage. That doesn't mean at all that had he stayed in base he wouldn't have been able to beat him.
 

The President

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Yep. We pretty much know 2nd origin boosted the mage's physical ability even though its MP related. Natsu went from not being able to keep up with Max to being able to demolish Dragon Force Sting and Rogue.
2nd Origin boosted MP, which in turn boosted the physical stats. There is a huge correlation between MP and physical stats.

Max was overwhelming Base Natsu easily and had to resort to LFDM to overpower Max. When people say Natsu wasn't on Max's level they are referring to base Natsu at the time.
Overwhelming is hardly the right word, he was on the defensive the entire time. More like he held his own, quite a big difference.

I understand your reasoning, @Takuan, but I still think Max > Base Tenrou Natsu. Max is pretty much on the defensive and is taking Base Natsu's attacks which are not affecting him at all. Also in this manga growth ratio is ridiculous so 7 years training for a fodder allow him to close the gap between himself and a high tier character. So put Natsu to sleep and give Max 7 years of hard training again, he comes back more powerful than current base Natsu.
Na dude, thats not how powering up works. Every one has a ceiling, the peak potential of Max is most certainly not Spriggan level. In fact, Max was probably near his peak after that 7 year time skip. Characters like Bluenote and Makarov have clearly hit their ceiling as well, you could give them 20 years and they won't improve a single tier. Spriggan level should be a level one in every million mages reach, probably even less.

I think we can safely assume current Fairy Tail fodders (Nab, Max, Laki, etc.) have far surpassed O6 members (as they were back in O6) and probably some of the kin as well. It's been 8 years after all, they seem to have trained hard. But still, kin level is currently utter fodder so they're still fodders, hahahaha
See this is false though. Zancrow was overwhelming CURRENT Meredy, she has like what? 9 years on him? Current Meredy ain't fodder, she would probably fodderize the likes of Max (btw it is implied that Max is the strongest of those fodder, maybe Alzack although he had a daughter to care for since he defeated Jet and Droy combined).The only Kin who are fodder are the kin who were even fodder back then (ie Kain and Zoldeo). If Natsu really tried to hurt Max, I'm sure he could have.
 

Crimson Ice

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Dude I don't even know how you can count that as being "bested". All Max did was dodge an attack and kick him twice. It's not like Natsu really took any damage from that anyways.

And no, Max wasn't overpowering Natsu. Natsu broke out of his Sand Rebellion quite easily and from that point on Max was on the defensive. Just because Natsu wasn't able to break through Sand Wall with his punch doesn't mean that he was being overpowered. It's a wall. It's not supposed to be something that can be easily broken through.

I definitely wouldn't call LFDM a last resort. Natsu didn't even know he could do that until this fight, he was probably just trying it out and seeing if it would work. Not to mention the fact that at that point in the battle he was getting seriously annoyed and he probably just entered it out of rage. That doesn't mean at all that had he stayed in base he wouldn't have been able to beat him.

Max had already bested him once in the first scan, and Max himself easily dodged all of Natsu's attack while Natsu himself got no hits in at all.Is bested a better word than overpowered? Natsu broke out of Sand Rebellion but he could do nothing against Sand Wall. On the defensive? The had like 3 mini exchanges if you're implying Max was being pressured hence why he's on the defensive that's not the case.



LFDM is most definitely a last resort and at the time it was most Natsu's powerful mode. Natsu had already activated LFD himself when he launched the final move on Hades, nothing from that fight implies Natsu could beat Max.
 

Boomburst

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Max had already bested him once in the first scan, and Max himself easily dodged all of Natsu's attack while Natsu himself got no hits in at all.Is bested a better word than overpowered? Natsu broke out of Sand Rebellion but he could do nothing against Sand Wall. On the defensive? The had like 3 mini exchanges if you're implying Max was being pressured hence why he's on the defensive that's not the case.



LFDM is most definitely a last resort and at the time it was most Natsu's powerful mode. Natsu had already activated LFD himself when he launched the final move on Hades, nothing from that fight implies Natsu could beat Max.
Natsu couldn't do anything against Sand Wall because he was being stubborn and was trying to punch right through it. Literally all he needed to do was to jump over it and Max would have lost. And I don't see any reason as to why Max would use Sand Wall if he wasn't being pressured...

Natsu was able to use a LFD move when he was finishing off Hades because he still had some of Laxus's residual magic left, at least in Natsu's mind. It certainly wasn't enough evidence for Natsu to determine that it was something he could use regularly. After the fight Lucy even asks him when he learned to do that, and Natsu responds, "Just now". That's pretty clear proof that he had no idea he could even go LFDM until that point.

Nothing in that fight implies that Max could beat Natsu either. All Max was able to do was kick him twice and it barely did any damage at all. Not to mention the fact that Natsu wasn't really being serious, he was just really pissed off. Its not like he was actually trying to hurt Max, if he had been he would have hit Max with that LFD roar.
 

Jko

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I never said she would outright tank the attack, I said she wouldn't outright get one-shotted.
Well we agree on that matter.


I don't recall that being stated, its been proven wrong in the manga regardless though. How powerful the DF varies depending on how dragonized the character looks. The fact that Natsu has looked different multiple times means that DF varies depending on the substance consumed. Natsu was probably just x3 his power in that particular fight, if anything.
It was never stated that the DF varies off how dragonized the character looked. If we go by that then Wendy DF trumps OS Natsu's DF by an huge margin (which true either way bcs Tartaros Wendy >>> OS Natsu).
Dragon Force is a triple multiplier.

Yeah I don't know about that. MG's hand swipe? What hand swipe are you talking about? The rose explosions? Yeah those are weak. Atlas Flame tried to shake Natsu off, he did not body slam him.

Those Dragons were not serious. Only two of them did which was Atlas and MG when they faced off against each other.
 
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Arjuna

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My ranking of the Spriggans.Based strictly on their MP not hax.
Top tier
August
Irene
Larcade
High Tier
Invel
Neinhart
God Serena
Mid Tier
Brandish/Dimaria
Dimaria/Brandish
Wahl Icht
Low Tier
Ajeel
Bradman
Jacob
 

Takuan

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@Crimson Ice
I'm sorry but i decided to stop arguing about the subject.

Don't worry i understand your point. And i respect it. However i already stated my opinion previously when i talked with @Char. Imo this fight was a matter of showing how much fodders trained to become relevant. That's why (imo again, this is only my opinion and can be seen differently) that's why Lucy Wendy and the other outsiders were shown shocked and were like "ohmahgawd Natsu can't beat Max" when the fight lasted a whole 20 seconds and nobody received damage at all.
So Max can give Base Natsu a good fight. Once Natsu decides to fight seriously with his new mode Max is overwhelmed. Goes to show that the improvement from previous fodders is still not enough.

I definitely agree that Max can fight Base Natsu without being fodderized. But i'll NEVER admit that Base Natsu was overpowered, when he just massively underestimated his opponent and the fight lasted 20 seconds. He also received close to no damage.
Neither opponent was fighting seriously, and once Natsu got fed up and wanted to end the fight, he did.

Let's just agree to disagree, since i won't convince you and you won't convince me.
 

Static

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My new Spriggan 12 ranking :

In terms of combat prowess -

1) August
2) Irene Belserion
3) Larcade Dragneel
4) Invel
5) Dimaria "Chronos" Yesta
6) Bradman
7) God Serena
8) Brandish
9) Wahl
10) Neinhart
11) Jacob
12) Ajeel

In terms of magic power alone-
1) August
2) Irene Belserion
3) Larcade Dragneel
4) Neinhart
5) Invel
6) Dimaria Chronos Yesta
7) Brandish
8) God Serena
9) Wahl
10) Ajeel
11) Jacob
12) Bradman

Meh, 5-11 are pretty much equal in terms of magic power alone so I just randomly gave them spots lol. Neinhart seems to have high magic power but low combat ability because he managed to historize three] Spriggan 12s back from the dead and Bradman was pretty much stated to have the lowest MP but that is because he utilizes Curse Power.
 

The President

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It was never stated that the DF varies off how dragonized the character looked. If we go by that then Wendy DF trumps OS Natsu's DF by an huge margin (which true either way bcs Tartaros Wendy >>> OS Natsu).
Its common sense. The whole point of dragon slaying magic is to make you as close to a dragon as possible, the more you look like a dragon the closer you are to a dragon and thus the more powerful you are. And Wendy's DF does not trump Natsus, Natsu had a bunch of scales under his eyes while Wendy just has a bunch of scaly spikes sticking out of her wrists and ankles. Base Tartarus Wendy is also not as much stronger then OS Natsu as you are making her out to be. Tartarus DF Wendy and OS DF Natsu are roughly equal IMO.

Dragon Force is a triple multiplier.
That one might be, all DF are different.

I had thought you meant Mard Geer. Anyways, this is a perfect showing of a dragons immense physical stats btw.

[SPOILER="Atlas smashing Natsu with his head/body and more"[/SPOILER]
When Atlas actually smashed his head against the ground and started dragging it Natsu wasn't getting affected. When he started smashing him against the houses, he was, but not that much.

Those Dragons were not serious. Only two of them did which was Atlas and MG when they faced off against each other.
All dragons were serious except the one that had to keep normal Rogue safe. We have absolutely no reason to believe that they weren't trying to kill the humans when their order was to destroy everything.
 

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I don't feel as if Dragon Force should be a direct multiplier to a mages magical power. When Natsu gave the comment about how he felt his power double or triple, he isn't being very exact. After all, there's quite a large difference between 2x increase and a 3x increase. I interpret that as Natsu simply giving a statement that his power is being increased dramatically. I attribute the magical power increase as being the result of Jellal giving Natsu all of Jellal's magical power. When Natsu uses dragon force on his own, he's not gaining any more magical power than he already has. He's just using that magical power to fuel a physical transformation.

The way I see it, how powerful dragon force is depends on 2 factors. The power of the dragon you are transforming into, and the degree of transformation you undergo. The more powerful the dragon you are transforming into, the more potential your dragon force has. The more dragonized you are, the more of that potential is realized. Since Igneel is stronger than the other parent dragons, Natsu's dragon force during Tartarus is stronger than Sting, Rogue's or Wendy's for the same amount of physical transformation. There's a bit of a grey area when it comes to comparing ToH and OS versions of Natsu's dragon force with the others, but ultimately that too boils down the difference between Igneel and the other dragons.
 

Crimson Ice

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Natsu couldn't do anything against Sand Wall because he was being stubborn and was trying to punch right through it. Literally all he needed to do was to jump over it and Max would have lost. And I don't see any reason as to why Max would use Sand Wall if he wasn't being pressured...

Natsu was able to use a LFD move when he was finishing off Hades because he still had some of Laxus's residual magic left, at least in Natsu's mind. It certainly wasn't enough evidence for Natsu to determine that it was something he could use regularly. After the fight Lucy even asks him when he learned to do that, and Natsu responds, "Just now". That's pretty clear proof that he had no idea he could even go LFDM until that point.

Nothing in that fight implies that Max could beat Natsu either. All Max was able to do was kick him twice and it barely did any damage at all. Not to mention the fact that Natsu wasn't really being serious, he was just really pissed off. Its not like he was actually trying to hurt Max, if he had been he would have hit Max with that LFD roar.

This is a lame excuse, that proved that Max's defence was wayy better than Natsu's offense in base. Not to mention you're saying all it would have took was for Natsu to jump over and win? That's laughable, you'd think Max would just let Natsu pound him especially since he's shown the ability to easily evade Natsu's blow prior? Max using Sand Wall means he's pressured? No you're baseless saying a defence technique means you're being pressurized which it doesn't.

Natsu before finishing Hades says he ran completely out of magic power and the magic power he received was from the Tenrou tree going back up. Natsu himself has activated the mode by himself prior and had some idea he could use it until he randomly activated out of nowhere against Max?


Nothing in that fight implies Max could beat Natsu? Right at the start of the fight, it was basically said Max had bested Natsu once already this was the second round, that alone implies that. Max had the sheer upper hand against Natsu and had already bested him once and Natsu himself resorted to using his new mode. Natsu was serious saying he wasn't is baseless. As for the silly notion that Natsu wasn't trying to hurt him is hilarious, Natsu tries to fire off a full power LFD roar in his face and even after he complains it wasn't as strong as the one on Tenrou, if that was the same roar on Tenrou which Natsu tried to use Max would have been a goner.
 

Jko

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Its common sense. The whole point of dragon slaying magic is to make you as close to a dragon as possible, the more you look like a dragon the closer you are to a dragon and thus the more powerful you are. And Wendy's DF does not trump Natsus, Natsu had a bunch of scales under his eyes while Wendy just has a bunch of scaly spikes sticking out of her wrists and ankles. Base Tartarus Wendy is also not as much stronger then OS Natsu as you are making her out to be. Tartarus DF Wendy and OS DF Natsu are roughly equal IMO.
Yes but in the earlier arcs I highly doubt Mashima was just thinking of super cool designs for that mode. Only after the GMG did he start to put more thought into DF so what I'm saying is that saying his Tartarus DF was better than his OS (in regards to amping Natsu's strength) for simply him looking more dragonified is wrong. It's been about 5+ years from the OS to Tartarus so a design upgrade would be expected.

That one might be, all DF are different.

I had thought you meant Mard Geer. Anyways, this is a perfect showing of a dragons immense physical stats btw.
How so? Enhanced MP means enhanced stats in FT so for you're magic to be tripled that'd means you're stats would too. Wendy's is a genuine DF so hers should easily be on par with Natsu (in amplification).

When Atlas actually smashed his head against the ground and started dragging it Natsu wasn't getting affected. When he started smashing him against the houses, he was, but not that much.
Yes I was comparing his physical attacks w/his roar that he did on humans to show that that Atlas non-serious attacks aren't just going to kill everyone.

All dragons were serious except the one that had to keep normal Rogue safe. We have absolutely no reason to believe that they weren't trying to kill the humans when their order was to destroy everything.
Those Dragons were far from serious look at Zilconis who just played around and stripped people and he didn't even try to guard against both Wendy's and Laxus' attacks, Atlas didn't even try to dodge Makarov's punch, and Motherglare sent out fodder baby dragons to go deal with the enemy instead of just doing the roar it did on Atlas and devastating the battlefield. Those Dragons were far from serious and if they were they'd just fly to the sky and shoot off their nuclear roars like MG did instead of practically standing in the same spot and tanking attacks (that weren't even phasing them).
 

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Yes but in the earlier arcs I highly doubt Mashima was just thinking of super cool designs for that mode. Only after the GMG did he start to put more thought into DF so what I'm saying is that saying his Tartarus DF was better than his OS (in regards to amping Natsu's strength) for simply him looking more dragonified is wrong. It's been about 5+ years from the OS to Tartarus so a design upgrade would be expected.
The concept of dragon slaying magic giving the wielder dragon properties is a concept that has been established very early on. A characters DF power correlating with how much they look like a dragon is, again, common sense. Its not simply a matter of design, its to show that Natsu is getting closer to becoming a dragon (ala Acnologia). Unless you want to tell me that Natsus DF turning him into a dragon (final stage of DF) wouldn't mean that his DF is stronger then a DF in which he only has a couple of scales, this topic should be done. If you do want to tell me that, this topic should be dropped anyway.

How so? Enhanced MP means enhanced stats in FT so for you're magic to be tripled that'd means you're stats would too. Wendy's is a genuine DF so hers should easily be on par with Natsu (in amplification).
Sure. And her base form is also around the same level as Natsu was at that time.

Inb4 Base Wendy >>>>>> OS Natsu because PLs drastically changed, despite the fact that Zancrow was still giving current Meredy a tough time.

Yes I was comparing his physical attacks w/his roar that he did on humans to show that that Atlas non-serious attacks aren't just going to kill everyone.
His roar was trash either way, even as a warning shot.

Those Dragons were far from serious look at Zilconis who just played around and stripped people and he didn't even try to guard against both Wendy's and Laxus' attacks, Atlas didn't even try to dodge Makarov's punch, and Motherglare sent out fodder baby dragons to go deal with the enemy instead of just doing the roar it did on Atlas and devastating the battlefield. Those Dragons were far from serious and if they were they'd just fly to the sky and shoot off their nuclear roars like MG did instead of practically standing in the same spot and tanking attacks (that weren't even phasing them).
Zirconis is simply a troll mandem. Atlas had nothing to worry about, he was constantly boasting about his defence. Nuking everything could just as easily do collateral damage, which F/Rogue certainly did not want. They were serious, albeit they may have been restricted to what they could use as to not cause any trouble for other dragons or important party (Rogue).
 

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I don't feel as if Dragon Force should be a direct multiplier to a mages magical power. When Natsu gave the comment about how he felt his power double or triple, he isn't being very exact. After all, there's quite a large difference between 2x increase and a 3x increase. I interpret that as Natsu simply giving a statement that his power is being increased dramatically. I attribute the magical power increase as being the result of Jellal giving Natsu all of Jellal's magical power. When Natsu uses dragon force on his own, he's not gaining any more magical power than he already has. He's just using that magical power to fuel a physical transformation.

The way I see it, how powerful dragon force is depends on 2 factors. The power of the dragon you are transforming into, and the degree of transformation you undergo. The more powerful the dragon you are transforming into, the more potential your dragon force has. The more dragonized you are, the more of that potential is realized. Since Igneel is stronger than the other parent dragons, Natsu's dragon force during Tartarus is stronger than Sting, Rogue's or Wendy's for the same amount of physical transformation. There's a bit of a grey area when it comes to comparing ToH and OS versions of Natsu's dragon force with the others, but ultimately that too boils down the difference between Igneel and the other dragons.
It's like SSJ of FT. They multiply their maximum by threefold which is how they can dominate enemies that were dominating them before. Natsu isn't very exact because his power keeps growing when in DF which is whe say "maybe even tripled". Also Jellal's Flame of Rebuke did not amplify Natsu's DF it only allowed Natsu to use the technique that's like saying Wendy's DF >>> Tartarus Natsu bcs Wendy ate Ethernano which isn't true.

The Dragon you were raise from has nothing to do with DF. Just bcs Natsu is DF turns him more like a Fire Dragon doesn't automatically put him above others DF. Natsu isn't transforming into Igneel so saying his DF is above Wendy or Gajeel's just bcs they're dragons are weaker means nothing. Sting's and Rogue's DF were already stated to be inferior DF by Natsu most likely bcs they didn't have scales or didn't have enough power to activate a true DF. But Wendy's has already been show to be a true DF so her amp is the same as Natsu amp in DF. The only reason Natsu DF is greater than Wendy is bcs Natsu's is way stronger than her without it.
 
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