Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Woodenstool]

Atlas Flames flames were just his body, they aren't really the offensive one. Plus, Natsu got his Magic straight from the Flame Dragon King who could easily defeat Atlas Flames. Natsu's resistance would obviously be much higher than a regular Slayer as well. Flame Dragon King > Purgatory Flames.

Wheres your evidence that Natsu's fire is hotter than Serenas?

Natsu's fire gets hotter with emotion

 

[Static]

Wheres your evidence that Natsu's fire is hotter than Serenas?

Natsu's fire gets hotter with emotion

I think Serena's fire is less hotter than Natsu's but more powerful. When he used his Purgatory DS magic on the GoIs and Natsu and co no one's clothes were burnt off unlike what happens with Natsu's.

 

[Brandish μ]

FDK flames are above God Serena's flames. Doesn't matter how you look at it...
1) FDK demolishing strike has the better damage output feat (taking out Jacob who wasn't really hurt). Serena's Hellflame didn't achieve that against weaker opponents.
2) FDKM has a heat feat, giving Jacob pain by presence alone. God Serena's flames don't have that.
>> So really Natsu has more evidence backing him than God Serena.

As for Base Natsu's flames, they're probably comparable to God Serena's. Because God Serena has greater magic power, it's reasonable to say his flames are stronger than Base Natsu's. But the roar against Bluenote is at least as strong as the Hellflame used against the GoI, imo.

 

[sharkai]

Ok bro, I spend my time in whatever I want and I did no assumption to prove my point since I have no point to prove.



Careful.



You're not that good of a debater tbh, I'm not the only one who thinks so. When I give my arguments I always say that I may be wrong, thing which you don't do, and you should, cause you're often wrong. Humility does not kill people.



Yes he is.



Are you saying that GMG Mira+Erza > GMG Laxus BUT GMG Laxus > GMG Gajeel + Natsu? And you're the one who asks for proof? Pls, you give me proof since you're so good a debater and I don't deserve my degree.



Can you prove otherwise? You probably can't. I can try to prove that though:
Hype: If Laxus >= Jura and Jura >= Erza+Mira, then Laxus >= Erza+Mira or even Laxus > Erza+Mira.
Feats: Tartaros Jura beat Tempesta low difficulty. Erza beat Kyoka extreme diff.
Stats of 9DG:
Mard Geer Tartaros: 46,400
Kyoka: 19,900
Silver: 17,500
Seilah: 14,400
Keith: 11,200
Torafuzar: 10,500
Tempesta: 9,800
Jackal: 8,400
Franmalth: 8,200
Ezel: 7,800
Lahmy: 2,300

Kyoka = 2x Tempesta
If we asume every 2x stronger means a scale of difficulty, then we have that Laxus would mid diff Kyoka, but Erza extreme diff, so GMG Laxus >> GMG Erza. Now it makes sense to say GMG Laxus >= 2x GMG Erza or GMG Laxus >= GMG Mira + Erza.

This is all ASSUMPTIONS. I'm open to the possibility of being wrong. I may well be wrong. But I provided evidence. Can you do that? Or you suggest I should still go get another degree? Does it feel like I'm making assumptions to prove my point valid, or is this a fact? Cause I'm not trying to prove anything, I don't really care if Laxus is > or < Erza or Mira we're talking GMG here, and I'm not interested in it anymore so if I'm wrong well be it.



Didn't Ultear use Toki no Arc on the Tenrou tree before they engaged in a fight against Hades? I don't remember to be honest, nor do I care much... :/



I agree, but what are you trying to imply here? Cause I'm with you. Natsu and Gajeel only beat Laxus cause Laxus was tired after fighting Erza, Mystgun, and using Fairy Law and that spell to destroy Magnolia.



Mashima did indeed show us a Sting that MIGHT have the chance to beat 5 trashed members of FT who would fall upon being blown at. So, yeah. But what are you trying to prove, again...



Yeah sometimes Mashima tells us that the GoI are gods and then he trashes them. But ok.



Do you need to bash me like this to make your points more valid? Is it really necessary? Lol anyway... Hades was top tier back in his arc, he was relevant, now he'd be GoI tier, nothing impressive any longer.



What can you show me to prove otherwise.



That couldn't even be considered a fight. It was inconclusive, there was no result. Laxus was very cocky and all, his portrayal was certainly higher than Erza's. He mentioned he was the strongest member in FT but ofc he wasn't taking Glidartz into account and he was being overzealous ok. Do you really think Erza could've been able to take on full powered Natsu and Gajeel? I think they would've mid diff her while they extreme diffed Laxus. And that's cause he was tired.

I have no facts to prove so because there are none. Can you prove otherwise?



You'd better provide me with evidence on your opinion on the topic then I'll read it and I'll let you know if I agree with you cause you'll only bash anything I can give you and question yet again where I got my degree.



Ok right then Erza was wrong, end of story. She might've meant differently, as in "they're a guild to be taken into account" or she may just have been humble/cautious or she may just have taken into account the regular members and not Laxus and Mystgun who, by the way, were nowhere to be found so since they were non-factors, she may've considered them as such. Besides Mystgun was destroying otherforces from PL which leads to the conclusion PL is not only the main guild but also the members Mystgun dealt with which means there may be more to PL than we know.



You're showing you don't give a damn about hype which is a fine position to take, but then make arguments that go only with feats not hype or portrayal, and don't bash those who decide to abide by it. Because yes, not all hype is to be taken into account but there's hype that is true. For example, when they met Brandish and they said it was the strongest MP they'd ever felt (implying Brandish > Mard Geer, Hades, etc.) I believe that hype to be true. Now if you don't want to believe the hype Jura = Glidartz then don't do so because I don't do either. I think there's hype we can pay attention to, and there's hype we shouldn't. What criteria to follow? I guess intuition. So far my intuition hasn't failed but, well, since you like well argumented facts so much I won't say anything else in case you downplay my arguments cause I went to a questionable university.



Hyberion was simply trashed by a spriggan when he was not alone, while Laxus defeated a spriggan, I don't think it's even sound to think that Hyberion is not leagues below Laxus.



You kinda have a point. Not because someone can beat someone, he's directly superior to a third party who's inferior to that someone. But in this case, it's like that: if Jura = 2x Erza, then Laxus = 2x Erza at least. Jura and Laxus were portrayed as being pretty much equals with Laxus having a slight edge, in terms of magic, cqc, MP, versatility, offense, defense... Laxus was slightly faster but Jura could keep up. What makes you think because Jura = 2x Erza, Laxus =/= 2x Erza?



You need to understand a thread like "power rankings" needs to be based mainly on hype and portrayal because we've got little feats. So you either say: I THINK it'd go like this because "x" (even if it's not a fact) than to say "I prefer not to have an opinion cause we don't have feats".



OK I concede. It's hard to pick which hypes are right and which are not, it's a matter of personal opinion.



Hype is usually given by third parties, there was no-one to class such an armor. We have NOTHING to class this armor as low, mid or high tier only opinion. I respect yours so let's say it's mid tier.



You want to make it sound like "if Erza's armor was high tier and not mid tier, then she might have beaten Ajeel". Well you're right, but she doesn't. My whole point is: Ajeel > Erza because Erza has nothing to beat Ajeel. It's simple to understand, I think, feats prove so.



Provide evidence for this.



Ajeel's attacks may not have a lot of DC but so what, he can literally bury you in his sand, he can dehydrate you, he can use sandworld and attack from anywhere, he can blind you with means of a giant sandstorm, he can probably prevent you from breathing properly, etc. Ajeel is so superior than Erza that it's hard for me to understand how you can say otherwise without providing proper evidence, you who boost yourself of being good at debating.



In any case, Mashima was ambiguous with scratches so let's not take this into account. As you cans ee in the following image, Erza is scratched, then she goes unscratched and in the following page, she's scratched again.

Why are you taking Marin as a factor here? Look at the previous image that I showed you. Right there is when the true fight begins. Before that, there's hardly any fight at all. This was Ajeel vs Erza+Bisca and Ajeel still ALMOST won. Erza only won cause she used a stupid light armor which Bisca happened to see, and she shot jupiter cannon which happened to be fast enough to hit him right the second before Erza was gonna get beheaded. Get how full of bullshit everything is?



Exactly, before Bisca intervened and after Marin was not a factor any longer is when the fought went on, as in, the real fight.

In that fight we see the superiority of Ajeel toward Erza.



Provide evidence.



If Erza was spriggan level, why didn't she beat Ajeel, likely the weakest spriggan after Neinheart, on her own? And don't give me the "wind armor is not her strongest" bullshit cause I'm not gonna swallow it. She had the counter element and she still would've lost if Bisca hadn't intervened.



Nakagami and Benizakura against Natsu? Why when Water Empress has higher chances of winning?

Mid tier armor with element counter > high tier armor



Jacob was overwhelming both Natsu and Lucy in cqc so I think I've got my reasons to think Jacob's cqc is high tier, not an assumption but probably a fact. Unless you think Erza's cqc very superior to Natsu's then we perceive things differently.



Lucy said so + he proved so having the upper hand against Stardress Leo Lucy + base Natsu not even using stealth.



Laxus mixes his dangerous element, lightning, with his cqc; besides he's ridiculously fast due to, again, his element. Jacob would probably keep up with his speed but he'd end up overwhelmed. Laxus is also a cqc specialist who beat Wahl, a cqc+long distance specialist so don't use the strawman falacy on me because the fact I said Jacob is a cqc specialist does not necessarily imply he's the best cqc user in the verse.



Yes it will. Top tier spriggans (August and Irene) can probably low diff the rest of the spriggans. Now tell me how it makes any sense having Erza put up a decent fight or even solo Irene.

I said i wished you didnt. you can of course do whastever with your time.
yes, you gave me assumoptions like makarov reading a book or talking to people and at the same time jason not knowng anything about natsu. you tried to explain the events of the manga by using your opnion or assumption. which isnt bad, but you can imagin how much I will agree with your opnions, which only strengthen your points.


You seems to have taken extreme offence at the university comment. you said that was a major part of your university, right? you have tp argue with prorper sources and all that.
but what did you give me

markarov might have talked or read a book
jason knew nothing.
and you gave me no sources. well, thats wrong, you gave me one source, which you yourself didnt read through.

so, i thought maybe you have forgetten what your learnt there. i think i was much less offencsive with you as you were with the other poster. because i certainly dont feel offended if someone says
i forgot what i learn in school. its a running joke here, whatever you learn in school, forget it after exams.
But if i really offended you, i am sorry.
i only wanted evidence for your claim of laxus was before this arc, tier above erza. same as erza was tier above natsu (i think this is your claim right)


there is a huge mess here. let me try to fix it.
first topic
erza vs ajeel
i think ajeel can mid diff erza, provided CIS and PIS are not facter. Howerver, i dont he is stronger than her. his magic has an advantage over her. that why he will always win.
it doesnt matter what their stats are.
same way, wahl should mid diff laxus, provided CIS and PIS (read lightening that surpasses even lightening) are not a facter. his magic has an advantage over his. that why he will always win.
it doesnt matter what their stats are.
to me hax doesnt effect everyone or not is isnt important. if it effects your oppoenent, then judging the strength is difficult. Example Gajeel vs juvia.

I just read through the entire fight again. damn erza entrance was bad ass.
Ajeel was faster than non red pant erza. but he didnt land one hit on her which she didnt block. he howver got hit two or three times. only time ajeel landed hits was when marin
interfered or ajeel counldnt be seen by erza.
this is what i mean, wahl nor serena can hide from erza. if they are as fast as ajeel or as strong, than they will have little bit more trouble than ajeel had.^
I talk about about strength here. how do you see strength. if someone can blind you with a flash of light, is he stronger than you? in fairy tail, i judge it by the damage delt.
erza nakagami did more damage to ajeel than any move of ajeel did to erza. that is why, i dont like using this fight as measuring stick.
after the panel you provided, erza becomes again scratchy.
the point is ajeel landed free hit on her, just like wahl did on laxus. of course it reduce erza mp and hp. marin interfenrce cause that. obviously, it has to be included. unless
you are saying that ajeel didnt even hurt erza then. which is really silly, especially since, ajeel even says that erza will dehydrate or turn into sand in that free hit.
I understand the BS factor, that is the main factor in fairy tail fights. the more bs potential you have, more chances you will win
natsu >>> erza >>>>>>>>>>>laxus. (judging by bs potential )

ajeel is not the weakest springgan. he might be well above wahl or serena.
erza did have wind sword, which did give her adavantage, against a person who was immune to swords, and was a bad matcup for any cqc fighter who need their eyes.
erza wasnt the only one with advantage here.
erza will probably do some impressive stuffs against ireen. now unless, your tier list is that flexible. where people are jumping two three tiers in an arc. mishma will probably use these things as an
excuse for erza to even be impressive to ireen.
"Mid tier armor with element counter > high tier armor"
is your opnion. i dont remember erza beating anyone with elemental advantage. even agianst ajeel, she used nakagami.
jacob was overwhelming, a natsu who wasnt using all his strength. cqc, does have a element of strength in it. comparing his cqc to erza, is a way to downgrade erza (in my opnion).
if you said something like jacob was overwheling natsu plus lucy, thus his cqc is above laxus. then i woudnlt have said anything.
at the end of these comparison, erza would indeed look like a fodder. whose strength is around hybrion level, a fodder in current arc, who cant even scratch a springgan.
everone include their magic in cqc. erza add swords and her speed. natsu does same too. wahl is not cqc expert nor is jacob, as compared to springgan. they are strong, thus good in cqc. obviously lucy will
mention it.
it wont make sence. just the way laxus beating wahl didnt make sence. at best erza beating ireen would make as much sense as laxus beating wahl. but if you say erza is a fodder, who cant even go cqc with
jacob. then obviously it would retarded.


Now, for the important part
you claim, or you think
before this arc
laxus was a tier above erza and erza was a tier above natsu.
You based this on laxus performed better against hades and Jura > mira + erza
and i think tartaros demon thing.
is this correct?
i already showed you with three examples, that if a mage is wrecked (erza against hades) and tired (erza aginst hades) they will perform horrebily. you kinda agreed with laxus vs natsu example
and team fariy vs sting example.
my purpose here is complete. using hades example doesnt give a credible result.
then came the hype. i showed you many times, hype can be wrong. you agreed some were wrong. thus this is also not a good credible source.
do you agree with this? if i prove the last one wrong or doubtful, would you go from saying
laxus > erza > natsu (> means a tier difference)
to
laxus > erza >> natsu (>> menas a tier difference)

as for me proving that there is not that big of gap between erza and laxus. i have already done so.
portrayal wise, gap between natsu and erza was huge. there was no portrayal of gap between laxus or erza
laxus couldnt one shot natsu. erza has shown to be able to one shot a guy who seems much stronger than natsu.
if we give beenfit of doubt to laxus. he can be stronger than erza. but the gap cannot be same as erza and natsu gap.
there is a speed exampke form OS vs erza and racer vs natsu. there is a brute strength example of natsu vs gajeel, gajeel vs lily and lily vs azuma.
laxus has shown no such feat which would make the power gap same as erza and natsu gap.

Now for the most important part.
i am a bad poster?
yes, the other guy did say it. but he kinda started with natsu = erza in the beginning and ended with tenrou laxus = hades.
so i cant take that guy seriously anymore than i can take a guy who states tha gildarts can crash aconologia roar.
i am arguing against majority view point. so yes, i do wonder, if i am wrong or not. but the problem starts, when i look at your starting post in our little debate type thing.
i got like one like, you got plenty. so maybe, i was wrong. and then i looked at your post content.
you got some things plain wrong, like erza saying the jura hype of mira + erza or tree helping fary attack team too. you made assumoptions like markarov might have talked or read a book, while jason knew nothing, to support your view.
you gave one source, which proved me right at the end. the marin interfernce. while you were giving an example of ajeel landing hit on erza without any problem.
i made minmium assumptions in my post and i think i got nothing wrong either.
so you know, this made me doubt, whether i was wrong or not. or majority might not be credible
same way with @Indira post
he says he is neutral about erza
then compares wrecked erza to full powered laxus
says erza wasnt WS tier in the start and then talks about how jellal even got smacked around by DF natsu, as if that is a good way to say that is a WS tier feat.
after these kind of posts i starts to doubt my opponent.

do you see my point?
so you say i am bad at arguing ´, then please tell me why. maybe i can improve it.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 12, 2016 ---

Really hate to butt in your debate, but I wanna address a few points. Actually, I wanna address all your points, but I don't have the time nor patience for that so I'm just gonna stick to the points that stood out.



I don't understand your logic here. Why is Jura's hype discredidted just because FF arc Laxus is stronger than opponents that are weaker than Erza?

.

its more of gap between laxus and natsu and erza and natsu.
if they are kinda same then it discredits jura hype after he loses to laxus

The fight consisted off Erza throwing a kick at Laxus who blocked it and tossed her aside like she was a pest. After that she left the fight up to Natsu and went to destroy the floating lacrimas. "Stalemate" is a stretch. Not to mention that Laxus wasn't anywhere near full power at the time.

no one tossed anyone aside. if he had blown erza back then I would have agreed with you

Proof that Natsu was more desperate in his fight vs Aria? In his fight vs Aria and his fight vs Laxus he wanted to acheive the same thing: to save Fairy Tail.

I was talking about start of laxus vs natsu fight. that natsu wanted to reach the top.
natsu wanted to save lucy in natsu vs blinded aria fight.
natsu watched his guild being destroyed in natsu vs gajeel
so I would assume emotion played the most role in gajeel fight than blinded aria fight then start of laxus vs natsu fight. with laxus fight, emotion moving up to maybe second place(my opinion).

Ugh, yes it does... Both GMG Jura and GMG Laxus have better feats and hype than GMG Erza. How is Laxus lacking hype that puts him above Erza? Throughout the whole manga Laxus has always been portrayed and implied to have been above Erza.

those feats and hype are ciucular.
if gmg jura lose his hype. laxus loses his hype and feat. you just need to pull one card to bring the entire castle down.

So Ajeel isn't stronger than Erza because his reaction is below hers??

no

Ok... Also, aren't you the king of "stop using assumptions"? Saying that Ajeel's reaction speed is below Erza's is one huge assumption.

erza managed to land hits on ajeel. he did not, atleast not without outside interference or erza without sight.

Well then Mr. "Stop using assumptions", can you show feats/manga statements that show Ajeel has more mp than Laxus?

no specific mention of laxus mp being near as impressive as the mention of springgan mps.
not including bradman though

Yeah, and Erza without the Bakel distraction or Bisca's help can't hurt Ajeel. So what's your point exactly?

erza saw Bakel fly too. both made comment after he was shown flying.

Jacob was dominating Lucy and Natsu when it came to CQC. Yes, Natsu was said to be holding back, but that was only for the amount of firepower he was putting in his punches. He had no reason to hold back in pure CQC. Jacob's feat of dominating Natsu and Lucy in CQC >>> any of Erza's CQC feats atm.

so Jacob cqc >> laxus cqc ?

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 12, 2016 ---

Okay, feats obviously disagree with what your suggesting. Back in the FF Arc, Laxus spent a lot of of his magic fuel, and still took on Natsu and Gajeel, at the time and even dominated in fair amount of spurts and exchanges of the battle. Even tanking their roars, and pretty much incapacitating Gajeel with a halbred.

Does this look like Erza was casual to you?

Spoiler

Spoiler

In the panels later,
Erza then released her lightning armor empress, and pretty much walked way from the fight. She hasn't shown to casually hold up a casual Laxus.


Show me anything where Erza has shown to come even close to that level of prowess displayed by Laxus against Natsu and Gajeel. Given their improvements assumingly being at the same level of pace, it's not silly to suggest Laxus would mid diff Erza currently as well. Infact, feats and implications suggest he can oneshot her if he goes all out with a secret art, and may casually severally damage her with A unnamed nuke.

Erza being one of the weakest in the end of the series isn't a silly thing to state. There are times in several shounen mangas, where the strongest from the beginning of the series, ends up being surpasssed. Changes are pretty much immenent, Natsu not only closed the gap on Erza, but is now fimrly ahead of her. Others with more going for them, will be above Erza soon, if not already. Hahaha... Erza isnt' going to take on Eileen by herself, Eileen is so far above her level, that it's not even funny.

Nope. Sting and Rogue don't have the relevancy to have too much hype, not even Wendy. I'm not talking about just hype, I'm also talking about scaling, transformations, and circumstances to look at the firm picture that is ahead of your grasp. Which has Gajeel and Gray most likely taking out Erza.

Ajeel expresion had him shitting his pants, when did Acnologia ever show such a similar expression? It was literally implied Ajeel would either be massively hurt by Laxus's casual nuke or oneshotted. There's a reason why August had to protect him, and stated that dialogue of being afraid to lose a comrade. Mashima literally shoves this to your face.

Hahahahaah, blowing up an island? The feat was a collision from Erza Knightwalker's attacks that collided with Erza. It was a combination of both that had them taking out a small island. Jellal held his own against a DF Natsu etherion.

Yeah, no. Laxus's feats against Natsu/Gajeel firmly put him far ahead of Erza. Taking on a high tier in Hades and even momentarily overwhelming him shows Laxus is atleast a tier or two ahead of Erza. The same Hades that was casually dominating Erza. Taking the Jupiter canon, had her being down for the count. Gray also reacted to Racer by dodging his kick. Moot irrelevant point. The only thing Erza is close to when it comes to Laxus is endurance, that's about it, but even then Laxus is still firmy ahead of her. Laxus had enough endurance to take on Hade's beam, without magical power.

"Also one shotting a guy whose weaker version was beating the crap out of natsu"
Who was this?

It seems my post went over your head...

"Do you have common sense?" Let's not resort to ad-hominen, atleast debate rationally instead of thinking you will win by attempting to insult me.

-Deliora was a casual village/town wrecker, he has feats.
-Ajeel would've most likely killed her but CIS/PIS got in the way.
-I'm no Erza hater, infact I'm pretty neutral on her. but if you keep going with that tone of yours, and biased riddled non-objectivity spouting all over the place, I might end up disliking her because of you.

Laxus while being nerfed took on Wahl with Red Lightning. A casual nuke with less exertion of MP should be able to oneshot Bluenote, given his MP increase. Bluenote isn't known for having such durability to withstand it.
Ifs don't mean anything, and have no bearings to consistency, since I don't firmly believe Zeref will be taken out by Jellal. Laxus is ahead of Wendy, for obvious reasons, so once again point is moot.
I expect some better debating posts from you, because this was awfully short-sighted.

Not even a huge fan of Laxus, but I give credit when it's due.

I see only starting armor of erza. no armudura nor benzikuru. so yeah, she isn't going all out.
you say you are neutral to erza and then compares wrecked erza to full powered laxus. or how impressive jellal was as he got smacked around by df natsu. but laughs at erza blowing up an island and taking all the jupitor for herself. or her one shoting aria while blinded aria was beating the crap out of natsu
are you sure you don't hate erza guts. wishes her to be the weakest character by the end of the series?
talks about other main and secondary characters surpassing erza a main character (like gray). while erza cant even surpass irrelevant characters like laxus an jellal.
yeah, I am not sure that you don't hate erza.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Are we still saying stupid things like Serena overpowered the main cast? If by overpowered you mean held back for a bit while none of them were actually affected by his attacks? Then yeah, he overpowered them. But if you mean he ACTUALLY overpowered them? Then nah, he didn't.

 

[Static]

Are we still saying stupid things like Serena overpowered the main cast? If by overpowered you mean held back for a bit while none of them were actually affected by his attacks? Then yeah, he overpowered them. But if you mean he ACTUALLY overpowered them? Then nah, he didn't.

Historia Serena would've most likely lost to them because him being much weaker but I believe the actual God Serena would've definitely ACTUALLY overpowered them.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Historia Serena would've most likely lost to them because him being much weaker but I believe the actual God Serena would've definitely ACTUALLY overpowered them.

The real Serena isn't overpowering Gray, Natsu and Erza (Lcuy and Juvia are non-factors).

 

[Static]

The real Serena isn't overpowering Gray, Natsu and Erza (Lcuy and Juvia are non-factors).

Well, Gildarts is still being portrayed as FT's strongest mage and according, he wasn't sure who would win between him or Serena.

Serena will definitely overpower Natsu though. He's highly resistant to Natsu's attacks.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Well, Gildarts is still being portrayed as FT's strongest mage and according, he wasn't sure who would win between him or Serena.

Serena will definitely overpower Natsu though. He's highly resistant to Natsu's attacks.

Gildarts said Serena and him would be a good fight and even if he was FT's strongest mage (which is debatable at this point) he's no longer wayyyyy stronger than everyone else. Natsu, Gray and Erza would murder Gildarts in a 3 on 1.

 

[Woodenstool]

FDK flames are above God Serena's flames. Doesn't matter how you look at it...
1) FDK demolishing strike has the better damage output feat (taking out Jacob who wasn't really hurt). Serena's Hellflame didn't achieve that against weaker opponents.
2) FDKM has a heat feat, giving Jacob pain by presence alone. God Serena's flames don't have that.
>> So really Natsu has more evidence backing him than God Serena.

As for Base Natsu's flames, they're probably comparable to God Serena's. Because God Serena has greater magic power, it's reasonable to say his flames are stronger than Base Natsu's. But the roar against Bluenote is at least as strong as the Hellflame used against the GoI, imo.

How does his fire get hotter when using bigger attacks? You make no sense.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 12, 2016 ---

Gildarts said Serena and him would be a good fight and even if he was FT's strongest mage (which is debatable at this point) he's no longer wayyyyy stronger than everyone else. Natsu, Gray and Erza would murder Gildarts in a 3 on 1.

Wheres your evidence? None of them are capable of reacting to poof speed. Gildarts has causal mountain busting punches, meaning he can throw several mountain busting punches before they can react.

 

[Brandish μ]

How does his fire get hotter when using bigger attacks? You make no sense.

I'm not saying flames get hotter when they bigger, just FDK flames > God Serena's flames.

If Natsu puts more power into a roar it will get bigger. The flames don't necessarily get hotter.

 

[PeanutButterJelly]

I ranked GS lower,not because he's weak,he's really powerful,but it seems like unlike the rest of the Spriggan he's uses a barrage of attacks to take out opponents.The others seems to do it much easier. Invel covered nearly the whole battlefield in ice,(froze even Natsu who counters ice),DiMaria kills people in less then a second,Brandmann does it by just being there,Jacob does something with his hands and poof etc.

 

[LucifeCollins]

The mountain is as large as a house now?

Which is why you see a forest, river on it. But ok.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 12, 2016 ---

It's a speed feat, you can't ignore facts bud. You put too much effort in your post. Lel

The mountain was small as hell. Natsu has done that AoE effortlessly on fodder as well—actually, he's done more. Your statement is invalid in saying that Gildarts is > by any feats.

 

[The President]

I think it does affect the concept of time the clock tower that we have been shown during her fight twice didn't move an inch ( Ultear arrive and you may say the climax of the fight ) .

A clock is not directly linked to the flow of time, its just a contraption created and adjusted to follow our perception of time. DiMaria stopped everything within a certain radius of herself via ethernano (clock included) that could not resist her ethernano. I mean, you can't expect me to believe that she affects something like time, which is on a universal scale. There is a reason why she herself believes that God Soul > Age Seal and why she did not drop dead at the same time as Wahl (ie Makarov and co were outside of her range).

I'll promise you I'll give the proof once you show me proof that it doesn't

This is the example I give when people ask me what argument from ignorance means.

If it was, then why didn't he use it? Exactly, because he didn't had a chance to strike back because God Serena stomped overpowered him with his attack spam. But I believe I've already said that in another post of mine. Or you could just read the chapter again.

Is that seriously your counter argument here?Why didn't Natsu use his roar? I'm out. This would be futile even if I tried.

 

[Holt]

Global Moderator Notice:
Keep the discussion civil, we keep saying this repeatedly. Do not bash/bait others by using offensive words/language. Any violation of the rules will be strictly dealt with.~ Holt

 

[Indira]

same way with @Indira post
he says he is neutral about erza
then compares wrecked erza to full powered laxus
says erza wasnt WS tier in the start and then talks about how jellal even got smacked around by DF natsu, as if that is a good way to say that is a WS tier feat.
after these kind of posts i starts to doubt my opponent.

How about confronting me, instead of talking behind my back
I'm neutral on Erza, however your bias riddled posts are making me less neutral of that nature.
I compared a healthy Erza against a Laxus who had his magical reserves depleted thanks to his own Thunder palace creation in the FF arc.
Erza hasn't shown any WS tier level in the start back when WS was big business. Jellal endured DF Natsu's punches held his own, all the while suffering from the slash Erza gave him. You might want to doubt yourself first.

I see only starting armor of erza. no armudura nor benzikuru. so yeah, she isn't going all out.
you say you are neutral to erza and then compares wrecked erza to full powered laxus. or how impressive jellal was as he got smacked around by df natsu. but laughs at erza blowing up an island and taking all the jupitor for herself. or her one shoting aria while blinded aria was beating the crap out of natsu
are you sure you don't hate erza guts. wishes her to be the weakest character by the end of the series?
talks about other main and secondary characters surpassing erza a main character (like gray). while erza cant even surpass irrelevant characters like laxus an jellal.
yeah, I am not sure that you don't hate erza.

This is a classic definition of red herring. You said casual Erza held her own against Casual Laxus. That is obviously not true. What we saw is that Erza with seirous expressions donned with her starting armor couldn't do nothing against a casual Laxus. Erza wasn't going all out but she was hardly casual.
Read my post above. I laughed because you gave Erza the credit despite the fact that it was a collison of collateral damage feat, of which Knightwalker's also played a role in blowing up the island. I don't wish her to be the weakest, but since you don't have an open mind, there's possibilities that Erza has chances to be one of the weakest. So Laxus and Jellal are irrelevant now? lol k. I don't care much about Jellal/Laxus but they sure as hell aint irrelevant.

 

[sharkai]

How about confronting me, instead of talking behind my back
I'm neutral on Erza, however your bias riddled posts are making me less neutral of that nature.
I compared a healthy Erza against a Laxus who had his magical reserves depleted thanks to his own Thunder palace creation in the FF arc.
Erza hasn't shown any WS tier level in the start back when WS was big business. Jellal endured DF Natsu's punches held his own, all the while suffering from the slash Erza gave him. You might want to doubt yourself first.



This is a classic definition of red herring. You said casual Erza held her own against Casual Laxus. That is obviously not true. What we saw is that Erza with seirous expressions donned with her starting armor couldn't do nothing against a casual Laxus. Erza wasn't going all out but she was hardly casual.
Read my post above. I laughed because you gave Erza the credit despite the fact that it was a collison of collateral damage feat, of which Knightwalker's also played a role in blowing up the island. I don't wish her to be the weakest, but since you don't have an open mind, there's possibilities that Erza has chances to be one of the weakest. So Laxus and Jellal are irrelevant now? lol k. I don't care much about Jellal/Laxus but they sure as hell aint irrelevant.

I did talk directly to you as you can see.
I do doubt myself first.
But people like you come along and then obviously it's start looking stupid to doubt myself.
Erza is as casual as she was with meredy. Her anger here isn't a big thing because and all she is doing kicking in that anger. And that where you figured out laxus can mid diff her.
Jellal did not hold his own. He got smacked around then all he did is throw small nukes and fly around. Pretty much something even Mira can. But then again jellal endurance is no where even near laxus whose endurance is still below erza. Especially sense even Wendy can take hits from hades.

Where laxus used his power inlightening palace. How did it effect him. Because fight with erza showed barely anything other than stalemate and no one going all out.

But you happily compared full fresh laxus vs hades. To full wrecked erza vs hades. And talked about how laxus was so much better
Yeah I am not sure about your neutrality at all.

Yes, they are irrelevant. Look at their contribution. How many demons did they take out in Tartarus. How many points did jellal get in gmg. Where were they in edolas and os and phantom arc. Story wise they have no importance.
If it makes you feel better gray also was becoming kind of irrelevant to the main story that is before Tartarus. That is why he got demon slayer magic. Erza though is much more important battle character than gray, is now also pretty irrelevant to thes story. This is why you have silver 2.0 Irene walking around.

Yes, mishma favourite girl can be weakest, but so can gray be. I am sure since you are so neutral that you think there is possibility that not only gray doesn't surpass erza but instead have sting rouge and Wendy surpass him. Afterall they have a mission to kill aconologia, right ?

 

[Indira]

I did talk directly to you as you can see.
I do doubt myself first.
But people like you come along and then obviously it's start looking stupid to doubt myself.
Erza is as casual as she was with meredy. Her anger here isn't a big thing because and all she is doing kicking in that anger. And that where you figured out laxus can mid diff her.
Jellal did not hold his own. He got smacked around then all he did is throw small nukes and fly around. Pretty much something even Mira can. But then again jellal endurance is no where even near laxus whose endurance is still below erza. Especially sense even Wendy can take hits from hades.

Where laxus used his power inlightening palace. How did it effect him. Because fight with erza showed barely anything other than stalemate and no one going all out.

But you happily compared full fresh laxus vs hades. To full wrecked erza vs hades. And talked about how laxus was so much better
Yeah I am not sure about your neutrality at all.

Yes, they are irrelevant. Look at their contribution. How many demons did they take out in Tartarus. How many points did jellal get in gmg. Where were they in edolas and os and phantom arc. Story wise they have no importance.
If it makes you feel better gray also was becoming kind of irrelevant to the main story that is before Tartarus. That is why he got demon slayer magic. Erza though is much more important battle character than gray, is now also pretty irrelevant to thes story. This is why you have silver 2.0 Irene walking around.

Yes, mishma favourite girl can be weakest, but so can gray be. I am sure since you are so neutral that you think there is possibility that not only gray doesn't surpass erza but instead have sting rouge and Wendy surpass him. Afterall they have a mission to kill aconologia, right ?

You didn't talk directly to me. You quoted another person, and used my name.

People like me come along? I'm sorry but you should be doubting yourself at the moment.

Erza wasn't casual, based on her facial expressions, and the way she charged at Laxus, showed she isn't casual. She simply wasn't going all out, but on the other hand we know Laxus was casual, and toying with her trying to have fun. I figured out Laxus can beat Erza mid diff? You know why? Because feats. Casual Laxus was dominating Natsu and Gajeel to a point that even Gajeel called him a monster. Do you believe Erza is capable of that?
I'm giving Erza benefit of doubt for even providing a mid diff fight.

Jellal did hold his own, he kept getting up, and he would've taken down Natsu down, if it weren't the convenient wound that triggered when he was about to cast AB. Are you telling me that Mirajane can endure and hold her own against DF Natsu? She would be oneshotted. Lol show me how Erza's endurance is ahead of Laxus's?

Even if you fond it unfair, tell me how much Healthy Erza can do against Hades? Is she able to provide the same level of power and feats Laxus did against Hades? Is she capable of taking on a beam without any magic power? No? Thought so.

I'm looking at their contributions. Laxus saved innocent people, he saved the raijinshuu and soloed a 9DG Gate. That shows his heroic nature and accomplishments. He didn't just simply solo a 9DG, he dominated. Laxus soloed Wahl, even when he was ill and had an elemental disadvantage, compared to an all out Erza who was dominated by a spriggan.

Creating a large lacrima palace, along with orbs all over the town is common sense, that magical reserves would be depleted from it. Even if you don't want to count the fight, the feats itself show that Laxus can mid diff Erza. Implications show that Laxus can oneshot Erza with a secret art. Implications can show that Erza can be severally demolished by the casual nuke that was sent toward Ajeel. Then again, you're telling me that Laxus can't oneshot Bluenote because he hasn't showed it lol. That means right? :^)

Are you seriously saying Jellal has no story importance and is also irrelevant? You do realize he created a friggin guild for 8 years running to destroy Zeref. That shows relevancy. That doesnt show Jellal is fodder from plot wise. He's a side character, and he still gets chapters dedicated to him.

@ Bold, prove it.
Hey it's possible, he can be the weakest, but not likely/very doubtful considering he's a slayer who has possibles transformations, an unknown trump card of power that is going to be used against the strongest beasts in the manga, along with portrayal of being the hero's rival in the manga compared to Erza who's just a normal non-slayer mage...(Same with Gajeel, he has the protrayal to be one of the hero's rival and is also a slayer) In Erza's case, there are several shounen mangas where the strongest characters in the beginning of the series, become surpassed. So you know, Gray, Gajeel, and others surpassing Erza at the end of the series is looking at the firm picture and being open-minded. Even right now I peg Gray/Gajeel to be ahead.

Sting, Rogue and Wendy will be taking as secondary roles to fight Acnologia while Gajeel, Laxus and Natsu will be the front runners based on prowess, so they (as in StingueDY) won't be getting a massive boost in power based on their relevancy being far lesser than Gray, so nice bait-job tho. :^) If you're going to make an argument to counter, atleast make some sense, and be logical/practical. Considering you're not even countering my own logic here.

I literally am surprised how anyone deems Erza is close to Laxus level.

Very curious on what your so called judgement is on Erza vs Natsu. while you're at it.

 

[Jko]

Do people still not get that stopping time has nothing to do with power levels?

There is only one way to get out of timestop and that's to have a counter to it. There's no NLF (<- which is a made up term) bcs she affecting the flow of time itself not an actual person. And people really need to stop using the "it's not gonna work on Acno" excuse bcs first Acno is the strongest person in this dang verse, second Acnologia has stated he has known/seen all forms of magic which means he must've met a time mage that could Timestop before so he probably had a counter, and third Acnologia is the antithesis to hax in the verse, literally no form of hax shown in the verse could work on the guy which is why Zeref wants to nuke him into oblivion with Infinite Etherion.

Also @Vici pointed out the clock in Hargeon was completely stopped which means Laxus' battle with Wahl didn't conclude until after time was unfrozen. She froze everyone in Hargeon so it is already shown that Power is not a way to counter her Age Seal.

 

[Jko]

Well , it's actually technically affect the mages too....

The spell affect time which indirectly affects mages too. Hax that defies physics like time manipulation, transmutation, or reality alteration doesn't apply to NLF arguments.