Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Arjuna]

DF's a pretty massive power up really, it gives Natsu a bump in all physical stats. His speed goes up because his physical strength does. He'd be faster than both Ajeel and Erza when using dragon force. If anything his Tartarus DF is already at point of being faster than Erza, and possibly Ajeel.

Yeah that's right.DF Natsu was so fast that Etherious Mard Geer couldn't react to DF Natsu's attacks as long as DF was active.

 

[Talenel]

Natsu already one shot a Spriggan. I don't know how he isnt Spriggan level just because he lacks hax (what Hiro refers to as "cheat magic"). He's clearly at that level in terms of combat ability though. Hell, he even mostly negated a move from August when August was intent on killing.

Why not? To this date, nobody has done that type of permanent damage to Acnologia.

Mostly because not even Igneel had done as much damage up until that point to Acno even when dealing damage with his physicality and magic together, and he had to sacrifice his life and body to take that arm. I dont doubt that if Natsu went all out he could take a limb (with the right tools) from an opponent near his level at the cost of his life.

 

[BluePegasus]

Dude, like I said before, he doesn't have to burn away the entire SandWorld. He just has to burn away the sand in a certain area. Let me give you the scenario : Ajeel activates SandWorld and gets close to Natsu. Natsu would then activate FDKM and burn all the sand that's within his heat's radius. Ajeel would also start burning and while he's busy recoiling from the heat, Natsu would hit him.

What you're using here is an outright example of assumptions. I don't even feel the need to refute this, but I'll just leave this topic with a question: Do you really think Natsu can counter Sandworld with just his body heat, even though fire isn't the weakness of sand at all? If you do, then I think you're the only one here.

I'll just leave this here as my answer.

Spoiler

Here you go:

Spoiler

But apparently you think the whole army walked several kilometers within the view seconds Natsu activated FDKM

Alright, wrong choice of words. They were affected by it, but it barely did any damage.

Ok.

So I guess Demolition Fist is a weak spell too because it only gave Jacob two tiny wounds on his face?

And I'll repeat myself one more time, it doesn't matter what the bot uses, the bot has to be powerful enough to overpower Natsu with it. Water is fire's main weakness, yet it can be evaporated. Fire is ice's main weakness, yet it can be frozen. What I'm saying is, if the difference in power is above a certain threshold, the weakness can be overcome.

Saying that Natsu would be unable to beat the bot regardless of the power difference between them is like saying that Gray would've been stomped by that fire bot regardless of what spell he'd try to use.

Seriously, come back to me once you actually UNDERSTAND the capabilities of Weakness

So what your saying is, no matter how powerful the opponent, even if they are dragon level or even dragon king level, they'd still get stomped by Wahl as long as they have a single element?

If you are talking about dragons themself, they could just plump down on Wahl's robots with their heavy body.

If you are talking about human mages who are as strong as dragons who only use one magic type, than yes. Unfortunately, there are no mages who are stronger than the Spriggans.

I'm not saying that it counters everything, I'm saying it would only counter a few things.

Yeah fine.

I don't want to go too much into this topic because it was already beaten to death; however, as far as I'm concerned, Natsu is overall Spriggan tier. His Attack Power and Defense should be adequate when we're comparing him to a Spriggan. As for his Speed and MP, I'd say he's quite average there. But in terms of Intelligence and Versatility, he lacks alot and needs improvement.

To say Natsu isn't on the same level as a Spriggan would be highly underestimating his powers and just pure denial. I will admit that a lot of users do indeed overestimate Natsu to the point it is utterly ridiculous. But to be fair here, Natsu deserves some of the credit that people are denying him of.

Anyways, the question as of now should be more like... Which Spriggan level is he on?

Because Natsu has many forms, he has such a wide range of power. Note that these are just my opinions. In Base Form, he would be on the level of a Low-Tier Spriggan (maybe a little bit lower). Flame Dragon King Mode would push Natsu to a Medium-Tier Spriggan. And DF Natsu is unknown. We can speculate all we want and get nowhere with Dragon Force. Personally, I wouldn't mind someone saying he can match a High-Tier Spriggan (doesn't mean he can defeat one although there is a possibility depending on who he is up against).

I don't want to complain much, but if someone is overrating Natsu to the point it becomes ridiculous it's you right now.. Firstly, saying Base Natsu, not FDKM but Base, is Spriggan tier is a huge downplay of the Spriggans. But the second point here is even worse, because Natsu can absolutely NOT match the leagues of high tier Spriggan, even with any form of power-up he has on his sleeve. Fact is, high tier Spriggans as Dimaria and Invel will pretty much zeroshot him..

 

[Cosmicstar]

Why do people place Black Steel Gajeel at Spriggan level? He isn't.

1. The only attack he negated from Bradman was his particle body which was Keith Curse which was stated as the weakest nine demon gate curse.

Spoiler

He only beat Bradman in a physical combat competition.

If we are going to say Gajeel is Spriggan level for beating Bradman in CQC then shouldn't we also classify Levy as Spriggan level since she negated 3 of his curses.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

So are we going to say Levy is Spriggan level now?

Black steel Gajeel didn't negate:

DeS magic
Sayla's Curse
Kyouka's curse
Jackal's Curse
Torafusa Curse
Tempesta Curse
Ezel Curse
Franmarth curse

The only curse Black Gajeel negated was Keith's curse. Considering Keith was the weakest of the nine demon gates and didn't compare to them I doubt his curse was actually that powerful. Yet people are ranking him Spriggan level because he was able to negate the weakest nine demon curse.

FYI
I used the Nine demon gate member name as a way to identify the curse being used. I understand Gajeel din't fight Keith but Bradman.



P. S People need to stop with this Base Natsu isn't Spriggan level but FDKM is. FDKM is Base Natsu. Only other mode we have seen since the Time skip is his FDKM empowered by Igneel power during his fight against Zeref.

From his FDKM the next most powerful then would be his LDF. His LDF would simply add lightning to his FDKM making it more powerful due to the addition of lightning. His Dragon force would also be a progression from that mode as it would simply be an increase of his FDKM.

 

[Axiomus]

Mostly because not even Igneel had done as much damage up until that point to Acno even when dealing damage with his physicality and magic together, and he had to sacrifice his life and body to take that arm. I dont doubt that if Natsu went all out he could take a limb (with the right tools) from an opponent near his level at the cost of his life.

Igneel was also able to knock down Acnologia, and Acnologia was covered in wounds as he fell. This was against Acnologia's dragon form. Igneel-powered Natsu would only be on base Acnologia's level, and Acnologia would likely still be the superior of the two. If Acnologia comes in his dragon form, Igneel-powered Natsu simply wouldn't really be on his level.

Spoiler: Igneel knocking down Acnologia & Acnologia's wounds

 

[Talenel]

Do you even understand the capabilities of Weakness?

I'll repeat myself one more time, if Natsu can counter something than it's NOT his weakness. In other words, Wahl will come up with something he CAN'T counter. That's the meaning of his magic. We can discuss this topic as long as you want, but you need to face the fact that Wahl is undefeatable in a solo fight once you don't have a secondary magic.

That's a bold claim. When has Wahl ever shown a perfect counter ability? Hell, Wahl even accidentally super charged Laxus with one of his moves so its not like his analysis and move choice is flawless.

And I'll repeat myself one more time, it doesn't matter what the bot uses, the bot has to be powerful enough to overpower Natsu with it. Water is fire's main weakness, yet it can be evaporated. Fire is ice's main weakness, yet it can be frozen. What I'm saying is, if the difference in power is above a certain threshold, the weakness can be overcome.

Saying that Natsu would be unable to beat the bot regardless of the power difference between them is like saying that Gray would've been stomped by that fire bot regardless of what spell he'd try to use.

This, I agree with. Gray vs the Wahl bot is similar to Rufus using "Karma on the Burning Land" against Gray. Sure, fire can melt ice so it was a good counter but it did zero damage to Gray because Rufus wasn't that powerful.

P. S People need to stop with this Base Natsu isn't Spriggan level but FDKM is. FDKM is Base Natsu. Only other mode we have seen since the Time skip is his FDKM empowered by Igneel power during his fight against Zeref.

Yep. I count his FDK attacks in the group as 'Secret' Dragon Slayer arts and Gray's Ice Devil Slayer moves. Its not a mode; its just a higher tier of techniques available to their base arsenals.

Igneel was also able to knock down Acnologia, and Acnologia was covered in wounds as he fell. This was against Acnologia's dragon form. Igneel-powered Natsu would only be on base Acnologia's level, and Acnologia would likely still be the superior of the two. If Acnologia comes in his dragon form, Igneel-powered Natsu simply wouldn't really be on his level.

Possibly? Nothing to suggest that FDKM Natsu couldnt knock down dragon Acno. Natsu wouldnt be able to rip Acno's arm off because of his small size and lack of fangs, but I doubt that he would be weaker than Igneel. I get where you're coming from though.

 

[Axiomus]

Possibly? Nothing to suggest that FDKM Natsu couldnt knock down dragon Acno. Natsu wouldnt be able to rip Acno's arm off because of his small size and lack of fangs, but I doubt that he would be weaker than Igneel. I get where you're coming from though.

FDK Natsu couldn't knock down Zeref, and Acnologia is stronger than Zeref. Igneel knocked down Acnologia after 20 minutes of extended combat against Acnoloiga's dragon form. Igneel-powered Natsu might have Igneel's magical power, but he doesn't have Igneel's physical attributes. If he fought Acnologia, Acnologia can probably tear a hole through him the same way he did God Serena. In his dragon form, he might just eat him.

On the subject of whether a dragon's physique is greater than a humans, I think dragon force answers that question. Dragon Force transforms the user's body, and gives it visible features of a dragon. A lot of Natsu's best feats in dragon force comes from his physicality, and not so much the amount of flames he generates. A simple punch in dragon force without a lot of fire does much more damage than a large nuke in base mode, and that was the case with Mard Geer. I believe the biggest advantage Dragon Force brings to the table is the sheer physical advantage of having a dragon's physique.

Spoiler: Dragon Force punch

Spoiler: LFD Iron Hammer

 

[Demon Hunter]

FDK Natsu couldn't knock down Zeref, and Acnologia is stronger than Zeref. Igneel knocked down Acnologia after 20 minutes of extended combat against Acnoloiga's dragon form. Igneel-powered Natsu might have Igneel's magical power, but he doesn't have Igneel's physical attributes. If he fought Acnologia, Acnologia can probably tear a hole through him the same way he did God Serena. In his dragon form, he might just eat him.

well, Zeref has immortality. I think his durability surpasses Acnologia's overall, considering there are few things that can kill him like END, power of the dead and possibly Fairy Heart.

 

[Axiomus]

well, Zeref has immortality. I think his durability surpasses Acnologia's overall, considering there are few things that can kill him like END, power of the dead and possibly Fairy Heart.

Zeref is immortal, meaning he can't be killed. He can still be knocked down and knocked out though. That's what happened to him on Tenrou Island when he fought Ultear, and although he was way weaker back then because he valued human lives, he wasn't any "less immortal". Acnologia is simply stronger than Zeref, and so beating him down should still be more impressive.

 

[Talenel]

FDK Natsu couldn't knock down Zeref, and Acnologia is stronger than Zeref. Igneel knocked down Acnologia after 20 minutes of extended combat against Acnoloiga's dragon form. Igneel-powered Natsu might have Igneel's magical power, but he doesn't have Igneel's physical attributes. If he fought Acnologia, Acnologia can probably tear a hole through him the same way he did God Serena. In his dragon form, he might just eat him.

Zeref was getting tossed around by Natsu. And no, Natsu doesnt have Igneels physical attributes its clear....I just doubt that he would lose a contest of strength.

On the subject of whether a dragon's physique is greater than a humans, I think dragon force answers that question. Dragon Force transforms the user's body, and gives it visible features of a dragon. A lot of Natsu's best feats in dragon force comes from his physicality, and not so much the amount of flames he generates. A simple punch in dragon force without a lot of fire does much more damage than a large nuke in base mode, and that was the case with Mard Geer. I believe the biggest advantage Dragon Force brings to the table is the sheer physical advantage of having a dragon's physique.

Spoiler: Dragon Force punch

Spoiler: LFD Iron Hammer

Thats why I mentioned full power Natsu (FDKM or DF, whichever is peak). Dragon Slayer magic gives your body the constitution of a dragon's. If he has the power of a dragon through his Dragon Slayer magic then he shouldn't be weaker than a dragon. Its not as if his physical power is determined by his muscle mass. When he uses Dragon Force, he doesn't bulk up but his strength increases drastically.

 

[Arjuna]

IgNatsu can't do what Igneel did to Acnologia simply because Igneel that did in his half dead state and IgNatsu is left over power of half dead Igneel not his full power.So basically it is not more than 25% power of Prime Igneel.

 

[~Charging Lightning~]

Here you go:

Spoiler

But apparently you think the whole army walked several kilometers within the view seconds Natsu activated FDKM

Pegasus..... Bro, I like you and all, but you're completely in the wrong with this point. Zeref told the Alvarez soldiers and Invel to withdraw several kilometers waaaaaay before Natsu started using FDK mode. Throughout the entire time that Zeref and BASE Igneel powered Natsu were fighting, the Alvarez troops were retreating. We have no idea how long BASE Igneel powered Natsu and Zeref's skirmish lasted for since a lot of it was off paneled. Natsu activated FDKM towards the end of his fight with Zeref. By that time the alvarez troops were long gone.

Come on dude, think about it a little. Would it make any sense at all if the alvarez fodders can withstand the aura from an Igneel powered FDK while Jacob, who has way better durability than those fodder, can't withstand an even weaker version of FDK aura??

So I guess Demolition Fist is a weak spell too because it only gave Jacob two tiny wounds on his face?

You're in the wrong with this point as well. FDK demolition fist knocked out Jacob completely. The only reason why he doesn't look damaged right now is because he had plenty of time to heal. For example Ajeel, after his fight with Erza, was covered in wounds from head to toe. Yet we see him now looking as fresh as ever. Why? Because injuries heal over time. Also, I'm sorry to say this, but Goddy's attack did zero damage to team natsu.

 

[Axiomus]

Zeref was getting tossed around by Natsu. And no, Natsu doesnt have Igneels physical attributes its clear....I just doubt that he would lose a contest of strength.

Thats why I mentioned full power Natsu (FDKM or DF, whichever is peak). Dragon Slayer magic gives your body the constitution of a dragon's. If he has the power of a dragon through his Dragon Slayer magic then he shouldn't be weaker than a dragon. Its not as if his physical power is determined by his muscle mass. When he uses Dragon Force, he doesn't bulk up but his strength increases drastically.

FDK mode is different from Dragon Force. Fire Dragon King's lets Natsu use flames that are similar to Igneel's. Dragon Force gives Natsu the physical properties of Igneel. Natsu can probably use Fire Dragon King spells in Dragon Force, and this would be stronger than using in any other mode. Natsu's strongest attack is probably the FDK version of a metsuryu ogi that is done in Dragon Force.

Dragon force gives you the power of a dragon, but dragon force itself comes in stages. The amount of power you get is likely proportional to how dragonized you are, and how powerful the dragon your magic is based off.

 

[Arjuna]

Also, I'm sorry to say this, but Goddy's attack did zero damage to team natsu.

Well that's because Neinhart brought a weaker version of God Serena as God Serena is stronger than him.These Historias are pathetic as Rogue and Minerva are fighting on equal terms with Spriggans who gave troubles to Gajeel and Laxus.Hopefully Neinhart does something good to improve his pathetic performance till now.

 

[~Charging Lightning~]

Well that's because Neinhart brought a weaker version of God Serena as God Serena is stronger than him.These Historias are pathetic as Rogue and Minerva are fighting on equal terms with Spriggans who gave troubles to Gajeel and Laxus.Hopefully Neinhart does something good to improve his pathetic performance till now.

I already know that bro. It's just that Pegasus was saying that just because we saw no damage from team Natsu doesn't mean that they weren't damaged and he tried to use Jacob bejng uninjured right now despite being hit by demolition fist and being knocked out as proof.

 

[Shoutmon]

What you're using here is an outright example of assumptions. I don't even feel the need to refute this, but I'll just leave this topic with a question: Do you really think Natsu can counter Sandworld with just his body heat, even though fire isn't the weakness of sand at all?

Alright, I've given you an example of Natsu burning Ajeel's sand and hitting Ajeel with his fire, proving that he can be affected by it. I've given you a scenario of how it would play out were they to fight. I even bolded out the words stating that Natsu won't burn the entire SandWorld, but only the sand that's around him, yet you still don't accept it. I don't know what to say to you anymore.

If you do, then I think you're the only one here.

There are at least 2 other people in the last 3 pages that stated that Natsu can beat Ajeel this way.

Here you go:

Spoiler

But apparently you think the whole army walked several kilometers within the view seconds Natsu activated FDKM

So we're just gonna ignore Zeref ordering Invel and the army to retreat, the panel of them retreating and the fact that they were nowhere to be seen during the match?

Ok.

So I guess Demolition Fist is a weak spell too because it only gave Jacob two tiny wounds on his face?

Let's not forget that it also K.O'd him.

Seriously, come back to me once you actually UNDERSTAND the capabilities of Weakness

How about you come back to me once you understand the concepts of overcoming your weaknesses and NLF.

If you are talking about dragons themself, they could just plump down on Wahl's robots with their heavy body.

If you are talking about human mages who are as strong as dragons who only use one magic type, than yes. Unfortunately, there are no mages who are stronger than the Spriggans.

Bro I'm sorry, but I just don't agree with that. By your logic, Wahl could literally walk up to Human Acnologia, make a few weakness bots and proceed to godstomp him.

Not only that, if Igneel decided use a roar against Wahl, and poured most of his power into it, it wouldn't do anything, since according to that logic, he would have to use his physicals to beat him.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

I don't want to complain much, but if someone is overrating Natsu to the point it becomes ridiculous it's you right now.. Firstly, saying Base Natsu, not FDKM but Base, is Spriggan tier is a huge downplay of the Spriggans. But the second point here is even worse, because Natsu can absolutely NOT match the leagues of high tier Spriggan, even with any form of power-up he has on his sleeve. Fact is, high tier Spriggans as Dimaria and Invel will pretty much zeroshot him..

I don't think I'm overrating Natsu here at all. I'm just giving him the credit he deserves. I would do the same for any other character that gets downplayed (like Gray, Gildarts, Erza, and Mirajane).

Saying Base Natsu is Spriggan Tier is not downplaying him because I view Base Natsu as the equivalent of Erza or a little lower. I know you don't think Erza is Spriggan Tier or that Ajeel is a Medium-Tier Spriggan and that's fine but I have my own opinions too. So do I think Erza is on the level of a Medium-Tier Spriggan (like Ajeel)? Barely. But how about a Low-Tier Spriggan (like Neinhart and Jacob)? Yes.

I don't know how Natsu will fare against High-Tier Spriggans and I stated that I won't speculate about it. If you are referring to my last sentence, I clearly said I don't mind anyone else saying that (because they are just guessing). Besides, Dragon Force isn't something to underestimate but at the same time I would agree that it shouldn't be overly hyped.

Also, although I think Dimaria and Invel can defeat Base Natsu, I wouldn't call it a oneshot at all. FDKM Natsu will probably close the gap. And DF is unknown.

---

Why do people place Black Steel Gajeel at Spriggan level? He isn't.

1. The only attack he negated from Bradman was his particle body which was Keith Curse which was stated as the weakest nine demon gate curse.

Spoiler

He only beat Bradman in a physical combat competition.

If we are going to say Gajeel is Spriggan level for beating Bradman in CQC then shouldn't we also classify Levy as Spriggan level since she negated 3 of his curses.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

So are we going to say Levy is Spriggan level now?

Black steel Gajeel didn't negate:

DeS magic
Sayla's Curse
Kyouka's curse
Jackal's Curse
Torafusa Curse
Tempesta Curse
Ezel Curse
Franmarth curse

The only curse Black Gajeel negated was Keith's curse. Considering Keith was the weakest of the nine demon gates and didn't compare to them I doubt his curse was actually that powerful. Yet people are ranking him Spriggan level because he was able to negate the weakest nine demon curse.

FYI
I used the Nine demon gate member name as a way to identify the curse being used. I understand Gajeel din't fight Keith but Bradman.



P. S People need to stop with this Base Natsu isn't Spriggan level but FDKM is. FDKM is Base Natsu. Only other mode we have seen since the Time skip is his FDKM empowered by Igneel power during his fight against Zeref.

From his FDKM the next most powerful then would be his LDF. His LDF would simply add lightning to his FDKM making it more powerful due to the addition of lightning. His Dragon force would also be a progression from that mode as it would simply be an increase of his FDKM.

Just like Natsu, to be fair, Gajeel is Spriggan Tier. Is he on the level of Bloodman? No. Because he literally died afterwards. But I understand what you're trying to say. I've seen a lot of people tend to overhype him especially on other sub-forums like Domus Flau.

Levy isn't Spriggan level because she didn't defeat anybody. Negating attacks is totally different from being able to beat somebody (which Gajeel did).

So in my opinion, Base Gajeel is on the level of Base Natsu (Low-Tier Spriggan or lower). And DF Gajeel would probably put on the level of a Medium-Tier Spriggan.

Also, although I understand that Base Natsu and FDKM Natsu are both Natsu, the forms are a little different. I don't mind someone saying Natsu is overall Spriggan Tier (as in all his forms combined), but Base and FDKM should be distinguished. Both power-ups are very different when it comes to attack and FDKM isn't really base. If Natsu uses FDK spells in Base, then I would agree with your statement. However, FDKM is specifically stated to be a mode so it should be treated differently.

 

[Woodenstool]

Natsu and Gajeel are the same. His roar is comparable to Natsus.

Btw, Ajeel was surprised that Natsu hit him. Erza and Ajeel were in battle mindsets.

 

[Hermit]

Igneel-powered Natsu would only be on base Acnologia's level,

Dude....are you serious? Holy shit....you placed Igneel-powered Natsu and ACNOLOGIA on the same level? Holy crap that's taking it too far....
Have you...have you seen human Acnologia's feats?

Spoiler: Acnologia's magic power

His magic power ALONE is capable of making 8 high tier mages quake in their boots...Igneel Natsu isn't even CLOSE in terms of magic to human Acnologia....Jesus man...

Spoiler: Acnologia blitzes 3 Spriggan 12 level opponents

He blitzed three Spriggan 12 level opponents in an instant...Igneel Natsu doesn't even have speed NEARING this, I mean shit, Zeref was able to go toe to toe with him, and Zeref himself isnt even a speedster.

Spoiler: Acnologia's crater

A swing of his hand....a SWING, with no magic power behind it at all...was able to cause a crater in the earth....Igneel powered Natsu's best feat was just setting the earth on fire, and even then there was no lasting damage on it....it soon receded back into its former state..
No offense man, but putting Igneel powered Natsu and Acnologia on the same level is as bad as it gets...if he was on that level then Zeref would have just told Acnologia to finish him off ages ago..
The gap between Igneel powered Natsu and human Acnologia is COLOSSAL

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 21, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 21, 2016 ---

In Base Form, he would be on the level of a Low-Tier Spriggan (maybe a little bit lower).

Yeah, Base Natsu is on Spriggan level, that's why Lessio was overwhelming them in the Guild Hall and Ajeel would have killed him and his crew with Sands of Death, right? Naah man, base Natsu is nowhere near Spriggan level...he can cancel out their weaker techniques like Ant Lion Pit but he loses to the more serious techniques of any Spriggan 12 member

 

[Boomburst]

Dude....are you serious? Holy shit....you placed Igneel-powered Natsu and ACNOLOGIA on the same level? Holy crap that's taking it too far....
Have you...have you seen human Acnologia's feats?

Spoiler: Acnologia's magic power

His magic power ALONE is capable of making 8 high tier mages quake in their boots...Igneel Natsu isn't even CLOSE in terms of magic to human Acnologia....Jesus man...

Spoiler: Acnologia blitzes 3 Spriggan 12 level opponents

He blitzed three Spriggan 12 level opponents in an instant...Igneel Natsu doesn't even have speed NEARING this, I mean shit, Zeref was able to go toe to toe with him, and Zeref himself isnt even a speedster.

Spoiler: Acnologia's crater

A swing of his hand....a SWING, with no magic power behind it at all...was able to cause a crater in the earth....Igneel powered Natsu's best feat was just setting the earth on fire, and even then there was no lasting damage on it....it soon receded back into its former state..
No offense man, but putting Igneel powered Natsu and Acnologia on the same level is as bad as it gets...if he was on that level then Zeref would have just told Acnologia to finish him off ages ago..
The gap between Igneel powered Natsu and human Acnologia is COLOSSAL

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 21, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 21, 2016 ---

Yeah, Base Natsu is on Spriggan level, that's why Lessio was overwhelming them in the Guild Hall and Ajeel would have killed him and his crew with Sands of Death, right? Naah man, base Natsu is nowhere near Spriggan level...he can cancel out their weaker techniques like Ant Lion Pit but he loses to the more serious techniques of any Spriggan 12 member

Base Natsu was only overwhelmed by Jacob because he was holding back a ton to prevent the guild from being destroyed. One FDK roar and Jacob would have been oneshot (ok maybe not, but you get my point).

I won't comment on Ajeel for the time being, I haven't looked at his fights in a while