Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2015-2016] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[xAsum0x]

BC is WSJ best selling manga without an anime. Is it surprising that they are promoting it?

Not saying much

 

[TotalEconomist]

@ChocoBar9 I am not sure how there isn't much story left, truthfully.

We still have to deal with Central and Azami, which can take some time. Then there is two more years that can be covered.

Once we get to a point where the main cast are in the E10, we can expand beyond Japan.

As for the other things, I think the author noted that the second season was well received overseas. The manga sales have stabilized and this weeks ranking is a blip at the moment (and for good reason).

 

[ChocoBar9]

BC is WSJ best selling manga without an anime. Is it surprising that they are promoting it?

When your competetion are brand new manga that started this year, two holdovers that are on their way out come the next round and the editorial favorite (Let's face it, as good as Hinomaru Zumou is it would have been axed a while ago under any other circumstances) its not much to gloat about especially when you're not doing as well as two previous "no anime" sellers from last year Souma and MHA. Like any other title there's room to grow but its nothing exceptional and Tabata's writing isn't improving so capitalize on it soon because kids will eat this shit up.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2016 ---

@ChocoBar9 I am not sure how there isn't much story left, truthfully.

We still have to deal with Central and Azami, which can take some time. Then there is two more years that can be covered.

Once we get to a point where the main cast are in the E10, we can expand beyond Japan.

As for the other things, I think the author noted that the second season was well received overseas. The manga sales have stabilized and this weeks ranking is a blip at the moment (and for good reason).

The manga right now has a villain that goes against the philosophies of the MC and the majority of the case and is a hurdle that the heroine needs to overcome so once he's gone everything else will feel like needlessly expansive in comparison plus the current cast is big enough as it is anything more will feel bloated. You're right in the sense that we're going to have to get a World Tournament of sorts since this is a cooking manga and everyone of those has had an arc where the MC takes on the world with his genius but I feel the scope of the story can't go past the Academy at this point without feeling like a different manga but it'll definitely be a nice change of pace from what we're currently at.

 

[Tamil]

Yeah, Toriko was a much worse case considering how they gave it all the promotion in the world and never took off. But I really do wonder how the editorial staff make these decisions. Idk if Tabatas writing is just that bad or he's just making a manga just to survive but it really does seem like they decided that regardless of how bad Black Clover is, they'll try hard to make it work out. Why though. Why not request someone with more talent and promise to make a series that you can push since you feel like the magazine is lacking hits. Really makes me feel like these decisions on what manga survives and what won't are made before the manga gets ranked or survives the 15+ chapter mark

What? Toriko was doing well in the magazine prior to its anime and sold double of what BC did in its first volume release.

Toriko did well and it was a really successful anime. It only flopped in the eyes of the idiots who thought it was going to replace Dragon Ball. Toriko had that level of anime success for a long time consistently.

So please, tell me how Toriko is a worse case? Toriko was a huge hit.

Toriko is bigger as a franchise than big series like World Trigger, Shokugeki no Soma, Nisekoi, etc. I doubt Black Clover will come anywhere close to Toriko's success.

 

[Silverblade]

Eyeshield 21 ended due to the writer and artist having a falling out which would explain why the last arc was so bad

Surely you can source this claim.

 

[WyldViolet]

So how do you think these last few months of the year are going to play out?

I really feel like Red Sprite is going to be a 10 chapter series.
Toriko only needs 2-3 chapters to fill a final volume.

I feel it's possible we'll see both of them end and see two more serials. One of them is guaranteed to be Genjui Toteku (last years Golden Future Cup Winner). It's possible we could get Galaxy Gangs as well (works great as a replacement for either series, and it's pretty common to see multiple Golden Future Cup entries get serialized even if they didn't win (Koi no Cupid, Iron Knight, Takamagahara, Kurogane, Muddy, Muhyo and Roji)..

Gintama will probably end in December and I'm thinking that will be when Tamura come back with his new serialization.

Love Rush, Straighten Up! will probably make it to the end of the year but will most likely be cut in the first serialization round of next year.

 

[ChocoBar9]

What? Toriko was doing well in the magazine prior to its anime and sold double of what BC did in its first volume release.

Toriko did well and it was a really successful anime. It only flopped in the eyes of the idiots who thought it was going to replace Dragon Ball. Toriko had that level of anime success for a long time consistently.

So please, tell me how Toriko is a worse case? Toriko was a huge hit.

Toriko is bigger as a franchise than big series like World Trigger, Shokugeki no Soma, Nisekoi, etc. I doubt Black Clover will come anywhere close to Toriko's success.

On what planet? The anime was so"successful" that it was cancelled and they had to fill the timeslot by bringing back the failed DBZ Kai covering the Buu arc...three years later. The fact remains is that Toriko was aggressively pushed alongside One Piece and also pushed alongside Dragonball which is why we kept getting those terrible TV specials. By all other accounts Toriko did fine but the numbers it got were nowhere near the amount that justifies all that pushing.


After the anime got canned its gotten very little in terms of new merch and sales has dropped considerably though given its peak its nowhere near as detrimental as say Bleach, its potential as a franchise ended years ago.

 

[xAsum0x]

What? Toriko was doing well in the magazine prior to its anime and sold double of what BC did in its first volume release.

Toriko did well and it was a really successful anime. It only flopped in the eyes of the idiots who thought it was going to replace Dragon Ball. Toriko had that level of anime success for a long time consistently.

So please, tell me how Toriko is a worse case? Toriko was a huge hit.

Toriko is bigger as a franchise than big series like World Trigger, Shokugeki no Soma, Nisekoi, etc. I doubt Black Clover will come anywhere close to Toriko's success.

Toriko failed because it didn't live up to the expectations they put on it. When I said it was a worse case I meant it got even more promotion than BC did or does

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2016 ---

So how do you think these last few months of the year are going to play out?

I really feel like Red Sprite is going to be a 10 chapter series.
Toriko only needs 2-3 chapters to fill a final volume.

I feel it's possible we'll see both of them end and see two more serials. One of them is guaranteed to be Genjui Toteku (last years Golden Future Cup Winner). It's possible we could get Galaxy Gangs as well (works great as a replacement for either series, and it's pretty common to see multiple Golden Future Cup entries get serialized even if they didn't win (Koi no Cupid, Iron Knight, Takamagahara, Kurogane, Muddy, Muhyo and Roji)..

Gintama will probably end in December and I'm thinking that will be when Tamura come back with his new serialization.

Love Rush, Straighten Up! will probably make it to the end of the year but will most likely be cut in the first serialization round of next year.

Ik you don't like Red Sprite but it ain't ending in 10 chapters lol. Idk if you read it or not. Maybe 15 or 20. Or it'll bounce back in rankings and do decent. U never know

 

[Azure Warrior]

For me, I see Red Sprite hanging around longer than Love Rush.

While both manga seem to suffer from the same pacing and writing issues, I really don't see the latter getting any better in terms of presentation for future chapters. That, and Yuragi still stomps.

 

[Caiops]

Still no Hinomaru Zumou anime announcement, Jump why u keep doing this to me, why? ;-;

 

[xAsum0x]

I think Red Sprites fine right now where it is, but the first 2 chaps prob left a bad impression. Chapter 3 onward does a good job with decent pacing, establishing a world and main villains, and introducing decent new characters. Wouldn't be surprised if it bounced back

 

[Tamil]

Toriko failed because it didn't live up to the expectations they put on it. When I said it was a worse case I meant it got even more promotion than BC did or does

What expectation is that? No one with a functional brain would think Toriko or any new series can replace a legendary series like Dragon Ball. Toriko had phenomenal TV ratings.

On what planet? The anime was so"successful" that it was cancelled and they had to fill the timeslot by bringing back the failed DBZ Kai covering the Buu arc...three years later. The fact remains is that Toriko was aggressively pushed alongside One Piece and also pushed alongside Dragonball which is why we kept getting those terrible TV specials. By all other accounts Toriko did fine but the numbers it got were nowhere near the amount that justifies all that pushing.

After the anime got canned its gotten very little in terms of new merch and sales has dropped considerably though given its peak its nowhere near as detrimental as say Bleach, its potential as a franchise ended years ago.

Interesting logic (sarcasm)
>Toriko wasn't as successful as Dragon Ball Kai
>Therefore it was a flop


Can you name many shonen animes that ranked consistently in the TV rankings the same way Toriko did? Nope. Dragon Ball level success is a rarity so no one expected Toriko to reach that level.

Pushing? Crossovers arent a push. A lot of series get crossovers but don't receive a push in popularity. Didn't Nisekoi get one with Haikyuu!!? Where did that go? LOL.

Toriko kept getting crossovers with Dragon Ball? It only got one and Toei did advertise toriko a lot but rightfully so. It was popular in the magazine. Toriko was a good series to crossover with One Piece since they're similar and Mitsutoshi/Oda are good friends. Let's not forget how popular Takeshi (Mitsutoshi's series before Toriko) was in the magazine which put him in a position of a great contribution to the magazine.

3 years is a long run for an anime, no? It did better in ratings than your beloved Bleach. Toriko didn't get cancelled? It's a hiatus and after the broadcast Fuji TV said that this won't be the end of Toriko. Even the network acknowledged the success of the anime.

Toriko sales were stable after the animes end. It declined a lot only this year because of rushing.

Let's get this straight. Toriko's popularity just get undermined by Bleach fans and people upset over 2 crossovers. It's funny but sad to see.

 

[xAsum0x]

What expectation is that? No one with a functional brain would think Toriko or any new series can replace a legendary series like Dragon Ball. Toriko had phenomenal TV ratings.

Interesting logic (sarcasm)
>Toriko wasn't as successful as Dragon Ball Kai
>Therefore it was a flop


Can you name many shonen animes that ranked consistently in the TV rankings the same way Toriko did? Nope. Dragon Ball level success is a rarity so no one expected Toriko to reach that level.

Pushing? Crossovers arent a push. A lot of series get crossovers but don't receive a push in popularity. Didn't Nisekoi get one with Haikyuu!!? Where did that go? LOL.

Toriko kept getting crossovers with Dragon Ball? It only got one and Toei did advertise toriko a lot but rightfully so. It was popular in the magazine. Toriko was a good series to crossover with One Piece since they're similar and Mitsutoshi/Oda are good friends. Let's not forget how popular Takeshi (Mitsutoshi's series before Toriko) was in the magazine which put him in a position of a great contribution to the magazine.

3 years is a long run for an anime, no? It did better in ratings than your beloved Bleach. Toriko didn't get cancelled? It's a hiatus and after the broadcast Fuji TV said that this won't be the end of Toriko. Even the network acknowledged the success of the anime.

Toriko sales were stable after the animes end. It declined a lot only this year because of rushing.

Let's get this straight. Toriko's popularity just get undermined by butthurt Bleach fags and people upset over 2 crossovers. It's funny but sad to see.

If you for one second think the Toriko anime will come back or receive anything your smoking somethin

 

[Tamil]

If you for one second think the Toriko anime will come back or receive anything your smoking somethin

It's possible to come back maybe not now since Toriko is ranking poorly in the magazine

 

[savethecat]

What are you guy's prediction on sales for Neverland Volume 1?

 

[xAsum0x]

What are you guy's prediction on sales for Neverland Volume 1?

40-50k being optimistic

 

[ChocoBar9]

Interesting logic (sarcasm)
>Toriko wasn't as successful as Dragon Ball Kai
>Therefore it was a flop

That's not even what I said. Toriko was cancelled and DBZ Kai had to fill its slot as a result its ironic because DBZ Kai was cancelled for Toriko back in 2011 since that wasn't performing well either.

Can you name many shonen animes that ranked consistently in the TV rankings the same way Toriko did? Nope. Dragon Ball level success is a rarity so no one expected Toriko to reach that level.

Can you name many shounen anime that had the same type of treatment as Toriko? Didn't think so. Also you're miseschewing what me and xAsum0x are saying, Toriko only performed badly in comparison to the expectations Shuiesha had for it by itself it did fine but the very fact that it was promoted alongside One Piece and DBZ FOR YEARS you cannot negate the fact that they expected to it to have the same level of success as them or else why the hell was it constantly promoted alongside them when it had much lower sales and rankings?

Pushing? Crossovers arent a push. A lot of series get crossovers but don't receive a push in popularity. Didn't Nisekoi get one with Haikyuu!!? Where did that go? LOL.

They are most definitely are a push. A crossover between One Piece and DBZ, two of the most successful and popular manga in Jump history, makes sense. A crossover between One Piece and Toriko, the best selling manga of all time and....the manga from the guy who did Seikimatsu Leader Den Takeshi!, OP benefits nothing from the crossover while Toriko does and this isn't even something people remotely want given Toriko had significantly lower ratings than One Piece. The Nisekoi and Haikyuu crossover was a joke much like the Isobee and MHA crossovers and they certainly wasn't making front cover headlines like the One Piece and Toriko one.

Toriko kept getting crossovers with Dragon Ball? It only got one and Toei did advertise toriko a lot but rightfully so. It was popular in the magazine. Toriko was a good series to crossover with One Piece since they're similar and Mitsutoshi/Oda are good friends. Let's not forget how popular Takeshi (Mitsutoshi's series before Toriko) was in the magazine which put him in a position of a great contribution to the magazine.

Toriko has very middling rankings that eventually dropped to where it now constantly occupies the bottom 3 and its sales were no where near the amount that the crossovers were made because of its popularity it was made because it needed the support, they also tried double billing its movie with the 3D One Piece movie then when it had a movie by itself it bombed hard alongside the merch for it. Oda is good friends with Kishimoto you don't see One Piece and Naruto getting crossovers constantly maybe because they do well by themselves and their consistent rivalry with one another is what made them see each other as equals rather than having to piggyback off one another. So yes Mitsutoshi was very fortunate to have friends in high places and he more than likely didn't expect all this pushing for a series he worked hard on and its unfortunate that it won't be remembered as anything other than Shuiesha's blunder of the decade.
I mean seriously. People are going to forever wonder who this guy was and why was he alongside Goku, Luffy and Naruto all the damn time.

3 years is a long run for an anime, no? It did better in ratings than your beloved Bleach. Toriko didn't get cancelled? It's a hiatus and after the broadcast Fuji TV said that this won't be the end of Toriko. Even the network acknowledged the success of the anime.

Yep just like how Bleach is on hiatus and Reborn and Eyeshield 21 and Beelzebub and Medaka Box and Nura and Kochikame and...well you get the picture. I mean its been three years now and the manga is almost over I guess they're really just bidding their time with Dragonball Super as a placeholder just to make its return all the more rewarding right?

Toriko sales were stable after the animes end. It declined a lot only this year because of rushing.

Nope, it declined every year after its boost was finished and then after the anime ended it declined again, now the suppose next big thing is getting beaten by World Trigger and other Jump manga that began after it.

Let's get this straight. Toriko's popularity just get undermined by Bleach fans and people upset over 2 crossovers. It's funny but sad to see.

I think this is the only factual statement in your post. Yes it was undermined a lot by the Bleach fandom who couldn't believe that all the pushing Shuiesha did only amounted to a marginal increase over Bleach that got pushed aside for the new kid on the block and now they continued to laugh at its fall into obscurity not realizing the irony in their own situation.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2016 ---

What are you guy's prediction on sales for Neverland Volume 1?

I don't think it'll do as well as Ghost Tits did since the artist and writer practically unknown and it hasn't gained much momentum as of yet. Its gonna be a tough sell regardless but its reception online is strong enough for it to at least sell 40k.

 

[SharkBait]

World Trigger has higher chances to come back than Toriko.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2016 ---

What are you guy's prediction on sales for Neverland Volume 1?

less than 25K.

 

[ChocoBar9]

World Trigger has higher chances to come back than Toriko.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2016 ---

less than 25K.

Well yeah because they're still making merch for it.

 

[Ihore]

15k-20k
it will do similar to mononofu unless the artist twitter followers feel sympathy for him