Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[EdwardRictofin]

Both Natsu and Laxus illegitimately won against a Spriggan. That much should be acknowledged by everyone. Bashing one character over the other is just a sign of bias. Admit it. Both fights made zero sense. It's really disappointing to see the Spriggans lose their hype because of these characters... Overall, I don't put too much emphasis on these "feats" because of how poorly written they were. I honestly think Hiro Mashima rushed these fights because he realized the arc was lasting a lot longer than he expected.

As for God Serena, saying he is comparable to the likes of Ajeel is so far from the truth.

Red lightning was a real thing unlike Happy stopping Jacob from using Transport. That was total bs.

Laxus won fair and square. Get over it, Natsu had so much plot devices to help in his fights that I don't take it serious anymore. Him fighting Gray was funny, petty grievances

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 14, 2016, Original Post Date: Oct 14, 2016 ---

"Illegitimately" meaning it wasn't an accurate representation of their powers.

Anything that happens for the convenience of plot cannot be considered in Power Rankings. Why? Because like I previously mentioned, it doesn't showcase their true powers.

You, like many others, seem to criticize me for not acknowledging a "feat". But let me make myself clear so this doesn't become a misunderstanding. Trust me, you're not the only one. For the last time, I'm not denying what happened in the manga. That would be absurd. I'm simply not incorporating it into power rankings for the reasons I stated above.

As I figured... The irony in your last two sentences pretty much proves my point.



Kind of. "But not really".



To be fair, not all hype in FT is bad. Mard Geer and Zeref are decent. Same with Future Rogue. Oh, and Acnologia if we count him.

Mard Geer was hyped to kill Zeref and died from Gray launching an ice arrow.

Acnologia is a nobody, he has zero hype. Yeah he killed a lot of dragons but that was because of his magic. He never could've done it with his strength.

 

[Brandish μ]

"Illegitimately" meaning it wasn't an accurate representation of their powers.

Anything that happens for the convenience of plot cannot be considered in Power Rankings. Why? Because like I previously mentioned, it doesn't showcase their true powers.

You, like many others, seem to criticize me for not acknowledging a "feat". But let me make myself clear so this doesn't become a misunderstanding. Trust me, you're not the only one. For the last time, I'm not denying what happened in the manga. That would be absurd. I'm simply not incorporating it into power rankings for the reasons I stated above.

As I figured... The irony in your last two sentences pretty much proves my point.

Then what is an accurate representation of their powers? Natsu using FDKM against Jacob, or dropping Neinhart is a representation of his power. Laxus using RL is debatable - but him being able to kill Wall is a fact. Moreover he has hype against Ajeel, so if he uses a likely more powerful attack then defeating a Spriggan is within reasonable bounds here.

No, power rankings are assessed by "us the readers" that take place within the story of Fairy Tail. Plot convenience or not does not factor at all, because within the story Hiro establishes everything for us to see... we have no right really to question the plot convenience of anyone's power.

I tend to disagree with the process of eliminating whatever you want because there is a disagreement to what is shown. To me, Power rankings isn't selective - it is literally anything that involves power within the FT verse. This includes emotional powers like PoF, or darkness... as well as poorly explained spells like Red Lightning. I'll only exclude something if there is a good reason to, not just because a character I like/dislike did something...

Irony?

Kind of. "But not really".

Well fair enough.

To be fair, not all hype in FT is bad. Mard Geer and Zeref are decent. Same with Future Rogue. Oh, and Acnologia if we count him.

Generally, characters are hyped loosely by word of mouth or character statements. Mard Geer, Hades, Acnologia etc were hyped well because Hiro decided to show them do stuff rather than let everyone hype them, and then show lesser feats.

 

[Axiomus]

Acnologia is a nobody, he has zero hype. Yeah he killed a lot of dragons but that was because of his magic. He never could've done it with his strength.

Acnologia has the best hype in the series:
- Conquered the world in Rogue's timeline
- Even with the Alvarez Empire backing him up, Zeref still needs an infinite source of power to take him out.
- Zeref, August, and Irene all acknowledge that he's stronger than Zeref.

Acnologia can kill dragons with his strength. He killed Igneel.
Killing Igneel also gives him the best feats in the series.
Honestly, Acnologia has fought and killed stronger opponents than anyone else in the series.

 

[Boomburst]

His punches aren't a sign of him getting serious. It's more like the anger and darkness building up inside him.



We pretty much agree on this except for different characters. You keep saying how Gray's fight was inconsistent but I'm trying to tell you that Natsu's power level and feats to support it are even more inconsistent.

Wait if you agree that Gray's fight with Invel was inconsistent then why are even arguing about him LMAO

Again, if Natsu is truly as strong as he was against Neinhart, Jacob wouldn't have the chance to escape. One casual attack in Base Mode would end him easily. At least it should if Natsu's power level is consistent.

Well Jacob had already tanked a casual attack from Base Mode eariler, so...

Besides getting hit a few times, Jacob doesn't seem to be that good in defense. Lucy and Leo's attacks were weak. There was probably only one notable punch from Natsu that he tanked but again... that is only one attack. I can't say Jacob has better durability because he just tanked one attack. What I do know is that he was one-shotted.

Tanking that one punch is already better than what Neinhart has shown.

If motivation is the same in both situations, then the damage output is dependent on attack power. From what it seems, Natsu had to use a lot more attack power to defeat Jacob than he did with Neinhart. Something here isn't consistent especially since the outcome is the same.

But you're assuming that Natsu HAD to use a lot more attack power to defeat Jacob when it easily could have been overkill. And besides, the motivation ISN'T the same. Sure the broader overarching purpose of "i gotta fight for mah nakama" is the same but that doesn't mean that the emotions and thoughts that Natsu has are identical in every situation.

I don't see why E.N.D's flames wouldn't work the same way as any other power-up. It is still a power-up. I think it is more of an assumption to say that Natsu was going easy on Gray. It doesn't matter though, we'll see soon enough what Natsu can really do when he goes all out. At least that's what he said at the end of last chapter.



The flames disappeared not too long after Natsu's arm demonized.

I guess you're right. We should probably wait for more info before discussing this further.

I don't remember that but even if it did happen, I wouldn't use Natsu as a standard of excelling in CQC. He is at best average at CQC. So someone who can match him probably isn't that good either.

I dunno about you but I've always considered Natsu pretty proficient in CQC. He demolished both DF Sting and Rogue with only CQC and overall in the manga his CQC feats have been pretty good.

Sure, correlation doesn't equal causation. But it is the best information we've got up to date. I would rather base my claims off of correlation than deny it just because it doesn't support my argument. It should be pretty clear that mages with higher MP usually have better stats. August and Eileen are by far the most powerful Spriggans in stats compared to the others. Similarly, the Spriggans have by far the highest stats in comparison to other high-tier characters. And those high-tier characters have better stats than the fodders which is why they are stronger.

I dunno tho, the statement made by the two mercenaries at the start of the series seems to indicate the opposite. If magical power had an affect on physicality then Makarov would probably be Spriggan level right now.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Red lightning was a real thing unlike Happy stopping Jacob from using Transport. That was total bs.

Laxus won fair and square. Get over it, Natsu had so much plot devices to help in his fights that I don't take it serious anymore. Him fighting Gray was funny, petty grievances

Red Lightning is not a real thing. That topic was debated a long time ago and I never got an explanation as to how it wouldn't be considered "PoF". In fact, Hiro Mashima clearly emphasizes it when he made Laxus give a Nakama speech followed by Yury's image as Laxus punched through Wahl.

As for Happy stopping Jacob, that was due to plot and I don't defend it either. Both Natsu and Laxus had bad fights. Period.

Mard Geer was hyped to kill Zeref and died from Gray launching an ice arrow.

Acnologia is a nobody, he has zero hype. Yeah he killed a lot of dragons but that was because of his magic. He never could've done it with his strength.

Mard Geer's hype was actually carried out especially since it took DF Natsu and DeS Gray to beat him.

Acnologia is by far the most hyped character in the series and he has feats to support it.

---

Then what is an accurate representation of their powers? Natsu using FDKM against Jacob, or dropping Neinhart is a representation of his power. Laxus using RL is debatable - but him being able to kill Wall is a fact. Moreover he has hype against Ajeel, so if he uses a likely more powerful attack then defeating a Spriggan is within reasonable bounds here.

No, power rankings are assessed by "us the readers" that take place within the story of Fairy Tail. Plot convenience or not does not factor at all, because within the story Hiro establishes everything for us to see... we have no right really to question the plot convenience of anyone's power.

I tend to disagree with the process of eliminating whatever you want because there is a disagreement to what is shown. To me, Power rankings isn't selective - it is literally anything that involves power within the FT verse. This includes emotional powers like PoF, or darkness... as well as poorly explained spells like Red Lightning. I'll only exclude something if there is a good reason to, not just because a character I like/dislike did something...

I have no problem with FDKM Natsu defeating Jacob. Sure, there was a little bit of PoF but at least it was quite believable. As for Natsu one-shotting Neinhart, you can't convince me that it was legitimate feat. That was by far one of the worst fights in this arc.

I never denied Laxus could kill Wahl. What I am against is the difficulty in which Laxus defeated Wahl due to use of Red Lightning in the chapter. None of that was explained or foreshadowed either.

We have every right to question plot conveniences... The context of a fight and the literary techniques that are used is important when determining whether a feat is legit or not. I know for a fact that you believe this based on your past comments. You just won't admit right now in the name of Natsu.

I'm not eliminating whatever I want. I just disregard the feats that are obviously implemented so that the author can move on with the story.

For example, it doesn't make sense that FT (along with Mavis) can combine their powers and create a magical shield to block Acnologia's attack. Does it make sense to say Fairy Tail's MP scales to the attack power of Acnologia's roar? So why did Fairy Sphere block it on Tenrou Island? Because of PoF.

If I made a Domus Flau Thread titled FT vs Acnologia, what would the poll look like? One-sided annihilation from Acnologia, right? But I can easily say FT can survive by using Fairy Sphere. You see? Not everything shown in the manga counts in power ranking.

Irony?

I was referring to the part where you asked me if I was bias. Based on the fact that you said Natsu was legitimate and Laxus was questionable, I concluded that there was irony in your post.

Generally, characters are hyped loosely by word of mouth or character statements. Mard Geer, Hades, Acnologia etc were hyped well because Hiro decided to show them do stuff rather than let everyone hype them, and then show lesser feats.

My point still stands. These characters had more going for them compared to the Spriggans.

 

[EdwardRictofin]

Red Lightning is not a real thing. That topic was debated a long time ago and I never got an explanation as to how it wouldn't be considered "PoF". In fact, Hiro Mashima clearly emphasizes it when he made Laxus give a Nakama speech followed by Yury's image as Laxus punched through Wahl.

As for Happy stopping Jacob, that was due to plot and I don't defend it either. Both Natsu and Laxus had bad fights. Period.



Mard Geer's hype was actually carried out especially since it took DF Natsu and DeS Gray to beat him.

Acnologia is by far the most hyped character in the series and he has feats to support it.

---

I have no problem with FDKM Natsu defeating Jacob. Sure, there was a little bit of PoF but at least it was quite believable. As for Natsu one-shotting Neinhart, you can't convince me that it was legitimate feat. That was by far one of the worst fights in this arc.

I never denied Laxus could kill Wahl. What I am against is the difficulty in which Laxus defeated Wahl due to use of Red Lightning in the chapter. None of that was explained or foreshadowed ether.

We have every right to question plot conveniences... The context of a fight and the literary techniques that are used is important when determining whether a feat is legit or not. I know for a fact that you believe this based on your past comments. You just won't admit right now in the name of Natsu.

I'm not eliminating whatever I want. I just disregard the feats that are obviously implemented so that the author can move on with the story.

For example, it doesn't make sense that FT (along with Mavis) can combine their powers and create a magical shield to block Acnologia's attack. Does it make sense to say Fairy Tail's MP scales to the attack power of Acnologia's roar? So why did Fairy Sphere block it on Tenrou Island? Because of PoF.

If I made a Domus Flau Thread titled FT vs Acnologia, what would the poll look like? One-sided annihilation from Acnologia, right? But I can easily say FT can survive by using Fairy Sphere. You see? Not everything shown in the manga counts in power ranking.



I was referring to the part where you asked me if I was bias. Based on the fact that you said Natsu was legitimate and Laxus was questionable, I concluded that there



My point still stands. These characters had more going for them compared to the Spriggans.

So does every TV show.
The original season 3 finale had Marcel say "for Davina, Diego, Camile, Tryere, for the boy you once knew, the one you called your son"

Saying some cheesy line before attacking does not make it friendship related. Yes, he wanted to cave his head in for messing with his friends.

 

[XXEliteXXAceXX]

Wait if you agree that Gray's fight with Invel was inconsistent then why are even arguing about him LMAO


Well Jacob had already tanked a casual attack from Base Mode eariler, so...



Tanking that one punch is already better than what Neinhart has shown.

What I was saying is that I call Natsu's fight is inconsistent the same way you call Gray's fight inconsistent. We both agree on the word "inconsistent". We're just applying it to different characters.

In my opinion, a Spriggan's magic that has no effect is a lot more impressive than tanking a casual attack from Base Natsu. Sure, this doesn't tell us anything about Neinhart's durability. But the reason it is impressive is because it shows us just how high Neinhart's magic power actually is.

But you're assuming that Natsu HAD to use a lot more attack power to defeat Jacob when it easily could have been overkill. And besides, the motivation ISN'T the same. Sure the broader overarching purpose of "i gotta fight for mah nakama" is the same but that doesn't mean that the emotions and thoughts that Natsu has are identical in every situation.



I guess you're right. We should probably wait for more info before discussing this further.

It wasn't overkill like I said before. And the motivation is pretty much the same. Both were for the sake of the Fairy Tail guild.

I dunno about you but I've always considered Natsu pretty proficient in CQC. He demolished both DF Sting and Rogue with only CQC and overall in the manga his CQC feats have been pretty good.



I dunno tho, the statement made by the two mercenaries at the start of the series seems to indicate the opposite. If magical power had an affect on physicality then Makarov would probably be Spriggan level right now.

Sting and Rogue were always poor in terms of CQC in my book. They are only decent in terms of magic.

I don't think Makarov has a lot of magic power especially compared to a Spriggan which is why his stats are not up to the normal standards. So I still go by this idea.

---

So does every TV show.
The original season 3 finale had Marcel say "for Davina, Diego, Camile, Tryere, for the boy you once knew, the one you called your son"

Saying some cheesy line before attacking does not make it friendship related. Yes, he wanted to cave his head in for messing with his friends.

But Fairy Tail is different. I don't know what you're referencing so I have nothing to say here.

 

[Spirit]

I swear to god if Natsu insta-downs Gray like a sack of potatoes... Jeez. He gives Saitama a run for his money

 

[SirSamuel016]

I swear to god if Natsu insta-downs Gray like a sack of potatoes... Jeez. He gives Saitama a run for his money

In terms of Power Rankings, it isn't impossible that Natsu/E.N.D not holding back could take Gray down fairly quickly. After all, we've had Natsu be portrayed as being stronger than Gray for a fair while in the manga now, and this arc especially. He's got the better Attack Power, Durability, Speed and Versatility (Fire and Lighting > Ice), possibly Magic Power too so he's got that going for him too. After all, he is the one that spent 10+ months doing serious training compared to Gray who did some casual training and work for 6 months before he joined Avatar.

 

[Brandish μ]

I have no problem with FDKM Natsu defeating Jacob. Sure, there was a little bit of PoF but at least it was quite believable. As for Natsu one-shotting Neinhart, you can't convince me that it was legitimate feat. That was by far one of the worst fights in this arc.

Natsu beating Neinhart is a legitimate feat. It's like saying Jellal's GC isn't legitimate. All it means is enchanted Neinhart cannot take the offense Natsu had to offer at that particular time.

I never denied Laxus could kill Wahl. What I am against is the difficulty in which Laxus defeated Wahl due to use of Red Lightning in the chapter. None of that was explained or foreshadowed either.

This isn't something you call illegitimate in the context of FT powers/ablities... this is your view on Mashima's writing.

We have every right to question plot conveniences... The context of a fight and the literary techniques that are used is important when determining whether a feat is legit or not. I know for a fact that you believe this based on your past comments. You just won't admit right now in the name of Natsu.

You do, but not in the context of power levels.. It's as simple as this - define power in the world of Fairy Tail. What you're doing here is nothing more than taking out what you don't like or what you think power should mean. Fact is Hiro defines everything in his world, and we create fan-made power scales to describe what we've read.

I'm not eliminating whatever I want. I just disregard the feats that are obviously implemented so that the author can move on with the story.

Lmao. A lot of feats come from plot moving. For Hiro what does he make first - the plot or the power levels? Or are they intertwined? The chicken comes first or the egg?

It's not up to you to tell which feat isn't made for plot or not - in this thread. You probably need to make a pseudo-power rankings thread so you can adjust the FT verse as you see fit.

For example, it doesn't make sense that FT (along with Mavis) can combine their powers and create a magical shield to block Acnologia's attack. Does it make sense to say Fairy Tail's MP scales to the attack power of Acnologia's roar? So why did Fairy Sphere block it on Tenrou Island? Because of PoF.

If I made a Domus Flau Thread titled FT vs Acnologia, what would the poll look like? One-sided annihilation from Acnologia, right? But I can easily say FT can survive by using Fairy Sphere. You see? Not everything shown in the manga counts in power ranking.

On Tenrou (tree restored), with PoF, and Mavis using that power to cast the spell. FS is a defensive spell, which more or less froze an instant in time. That's how Mavis described it. You see the island get destroyed by Acnologia, so in effect a copy was 'saved' in the Fairy Sphere spell, and then returned 7 years later. This spell, as far as I could tell, did not block or deflect Acno's roar. It's essentially a hax.

Only if Mavis is there can FS be cast. So if the thread has her, and Acnologia just plays around like he did on Tenrou, then FS could get cast. If Acno isn't messing around people will drop within an instant like what happened to Gildarts or God Serena.

I was referring to the part where you asked me if I was bias. Based on the fact that you said Natsu was legitimate and Laxus was questionable, I concluded that there was irony in your post.

Laxus' win is up for debate, because it depends on how you interpret the effectiveness of Red Lightning on Wall. Note this has nothing to do with whether or not Laxus can beat Wall - he can.

Just because there is contention doesn't mean it's illegitimate...

My point still stands. These characters had more going for them compared to the Spriggans.

Yes I agree, but it just means that Hiro didn't hype as well as he did with those characters. Initially you blamed other characters ruining the 12's hype, so you didn't account for Hiro's strike rate with hype. Laxus already had Spriggan-beating hype on him, and Natsu was flaunting ridiculous power since the timeskip.

 

[Hermit]

Natsu beating Neinhart is a legitimate feat. It's like saying Jellal's GC isn't legitimate.

Not exactly, these two feats aren't even comparable in the slightest, consider the fact that Jellal had to use a named technique to take down Neinhart while Natsu barely exerted any effort, I think that speaks for itself..
I'll give you two examples here.
Elfman vs Bacchus in the GMG and Sting vs Bacchus.
Elfman had to use Lizardman to take on Bacchus and squeeze out a narrow win, while Sting took out Bacchus with an unnamed blow, that's exactly the same comparison here.
Or Cana vs Brandish and Lucy vs Brandish
Lucy had to use three Star Dresses to fight Brandish and Brandish wasn't serious the whole time, while Cana took out Brandish with a karate chop...see the inconsistency here?
Using all that's provided on the table in front of you to establish feats just doesn't work in this scenario...if that was the case then people should just stop calling Red Lightning an asspull like they are..

 

[SirSamuel016]

Not exactly, these two feats aren't even comparable in the slightest, consider the fact that Jellal had to use a named technique to take down Neinhart while Natsu barely exerted any effort, I think that speaks for itself..
I'll give you two examples here.
Elfman vs Bacchus in the GMG and Sting vs Bacchus.
Elfman had to use Lizardman to take on Bacchus and squeeze out a narrow win, while Sting took out Bacchus with an unnamed blow, that's exactly the same comparison here.
Or Cana vs Brandish and Lucy vs Brandish
Lucy had to use three Star Dresses to fight Brandish and Brandish wasn't serious the whole time, while Cana took out Brandish with a karate chop...see the inconsistency here?
Using all that's provided on the table in front of you to establish feats just doesn't work in this scenario...if that was the case then people should just stop calling Red Lightning an asspull like they are..

Lets start with the Cana vs Brandish and Lucy vs Brandish comparison you're making. This comparison you've made doesn't really hold any weight unlike your other two comparisons due to Brandish being taken there used as a more comedic effect where as everything else has been more serious. You can't really consider a gag moment as something serious.

Now feat-wise, I'd say the vs Neinhart and vs Bacchus feats are legitimate:
- Both fights against Neinhart did end quickly when it came to Neinhart being hit. Saying they're not comparable is a bit ludicrous imo, at the end of the day both times Neinhart was dropped after getting hit once or twice, which is both a credit to the attack power of the mages attacking him and to an extent due to his poor durability as well. Yes one technique was named and the other situation was two punches (one with magic), but you can't deny Jellal's attack seemed to be the strongest out of both situations. If you're saying it's inconsistent because Neinhart was enhanced, let me remind you that there is nothing to suggest his durability was enhanced, rather it was his magic power and attack power that were enhanced, and only that from what was implied. At the end of the day, if you're getting hit with strong enough fire power and your durability isn't that great, you're going to drop and that is what Neinhart did.
- With Sting vs Bacchus, you've got to think he was riding very high off of emotions due to Lector's "death", which was really spurring him on, and he hit Bacchus in the back of the head. With Elfman vs Bacchus, Elfman had no way to really hit Bacchus as he was too unpredictable and ultimately had to use a defensive form to wear Bacchus down and get the win. Both are legitimate feats, but one person had a better opportunity to land an attack on Bacchus.

As for the Laxus vs Wall fight, the Red Lightning attack was rather messy. There was no real explanation for it working on Wall other than "It's lightning, but different!", and the magazine it was in labeling it as "lightning that surpassed lightning" didn't help that. People not understanding how it really managed to affect Wall is reasonable imo, and them not understanding how it actually worked means they call it an asspull. Some people tried to justify it as Mercury something or rather, but I saw nothing of the sort in the Crunchyroll version from memory, hence why how Red Lightning affecting Wall is still up in the air. Either way, it's no lie that if Wall wasn't immune to lightning, then Laxus would've probably wrapped it up quicker, even more so if he was completely healthy.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Red Lightning is not a real thing. That topic was debated a long time ago and I never got an explanation as to how it wouldn't be considered "PoF". In fact, Hiro Mashima clearly emphasizes it when he made Laxus give a Nakama speech followed by Yury's image as Laxus punched through Wahl.

As for Happy stopping Jacob, that was due to plot and I don't defend it either. Both Natsu and Laxus had bad fights. Period.



Mard Geer's hype was actually carried out especially since it took DF Natsu and DeS Gray to beat him.

Acnologia is by far the most hyped character in the series and he has feats to support it.

---

I have no problem with FDKM Natsu defeating Jacob. Sure, there was a little bit of PoF but at least it was quite believable. As for Natsu one-shotting Neinhart, you can't convince me that it was legitimate feat. That was by far one of the worst fights in this arc.

I never denied Laxus could kill Wahl. What I am against is the difficulty in which Laxus defeated Wahl due to use of Red Lightning in the chapter. None of that was explained or foreshadowed either.

We have every right to question plot conveniences... The context of a fight and the literary techniques that are used is important when determining whether a feat is legit or not. I know for a fact that you believe this based on your past comments. You just won't admit right now in the name of Natsu.

I'm not eliminating whatever I want. I just disregard the feats that are obviously implemented so that the author can move on with the story.

For example, it doesn't make sense that FT (along with Mavis) can combine their powers and create a magical shield to block Acnologia's attack. Does it make sense to say Fairy Tail's MP scales to the attack power of Acnologia's roar? So why did Fairy Sphere block it on Tenrou Island? Because of PoF.

If I made a Domus Flau Thread titled FT vs Acnologia, what would the poll look like? One-sided annihilation from Acnologia, right? But I can easily say FT can survive by using Fairy Sphere. You see? Not everything shown in the manga counts in power ranking.



I was referring to the part where you asked me if I was bias. Based on the fact that you said Natsu was legitimate and Laxus was questionable, I concluded that there was irony in your post.



My point still stands. These characters had more going for them compared to the Spriggans.

See I was going to not post until I saw this. We debated the Red Lightning topic and I gave you an explanation, so don't say nobody gave you one, you just refused to accept the explanation given.

 

[Hermit]

Brandish being taken there used as a more comedic effect where as everything else has been more serious. You can't really consider a gag moment as something serious.

But see, why exactly are you classifying it as a gag moment? There's nothing to indicate it was anything of the sorts...remember Ultear vs Zeref on Tenrou? She pretty much took out Zeref the same way Cana did with Brandish, so why isn't that classified as a gag moment and the Cana one gets a pass?

and he hit Bacchus in the back of the head.

Similar to what Cana did, no? But yet somehow it's passed off as 'Power of Feelings.' This is why I personally don't think using Power of Feelings in power rankings argument is legit, if that was the case then 80% of the fights in the series would just fall under this blanket statement..

As for the Laxus vs Wall fight, the Red Lightning attack was rather messy. There was no real explanation for it working on Wall other than "It's lightning, but different!", and the magazine it was in labeling it as "lightning that surpassed lightning" didn't help that. People not understanding how it really managed to affect Wall is reasonable imo, and them not understanding how it actually worked means they call it an asspull. Some people tried to justify it as Mercury something or rather, but I saw nothing of the sort in the Crunchyroll version from memory, hence why how Red Lightning affecting Wall is still up in the air. Either way, it's no lie that if Wall wasn't immune to lightning, then Laxus would've probably wrapped it up quicker, even more so if he was completely healthy.

I'm actually in the camp of people that wasn't happy with this technique, so I'm pretty much with you on there, what I don't get is some people disqualifying it entirely, then a few sentences later they say stuff like 'YOU CANT ARGUE WITH WHAT IS IN THE MANGA'
There seems to be some reeking bias here honestly

 

[Demon Hunter]

I'm pretty sure that this is from FT Volume or from somewhere. it was posted on reddit so I don't know if its legit

Spoiler: Mercury Fulminate: Red Lightning

 

[Brandish μ]

Not exactly, these two feats aren't even comparable in the slightest, consider the fact that Jellal had to use a named technique to take down Neinhart while Natsu barely exerted any effort, I think that speaks for itself..

Natsu possesses a very high level of offensive power. Jellal used a mid-tier spell basically. A spell that's never taken out an opponent before, yet it took out Neinhart.

The very reason they are comparable is that they took out the same opponent. It can simply be put down to Neinharts poor physicals. Jellal and Natsu both hit Neinhart with at least enough power to beat Neinhart. Jellal's GC might be more powerful with the spell Natsu used (likely FD fist)... we don't know that yet but we know both of them can overcome Neinhart's physicals.

Or Cana vs Brandish and Lucy vs Brandish

Maybe Brandish' allergies might have had something to do with it...

Elfman vs Bacchus in the GMG and Sting vs Bacchus.
Elfman had to use Lizardman to take on Bacchus and squeeze out a narrow win, while Sting took out Bacchus with an unnamed blow, that's exactly the same comparison here.

What do you suppose could be a difference here? Elfman faced Bacchus in battle, and out endured him. Sting hit Bacchus with a sneak attack. There's been several times where a sneak hit like that has beaten people. Sting didn't directly oppose Bacchus IIRC.

Ichiya also beat Bacchus (and that was glorious).

Using all that's provided on the table in front of you to establish feats just doesn't work in this scenario...if that was the case then people should just stop calling Red Lightning an asspull like they are..

There is inconsistency at times. Plot also intervenes... like when Jellal drowned, or when Team Natsu got taken up by Makarov's arms in Alvarez so Laxus can make an entrance to hype him... tbh if you want to disregard feats on the basis of inconsistency then you will need proof via further feats. If a feat however is largely inconclusive, then disregarding it might be a sensible thing to do (I generally consider Jellal drowning not a feat, despite it happening, he simply drowned... rather than being a representation of his physicals). But this would be very rare. Pulling the trigger on anything you don't agree with just skews away from the manga too much.

 

[SirSamuel016]

But see, why exactly are you classifying it as a gag moment? There's nothing to indicate it was anything of the sorts...remember Ultear vs Zeref on Tenrou? She pretty much took out Zeref the same way Cana did with Brandish, so why isn't that classified as a gag moment and the Cana one gets a pass?

I'm classifying it as a gag moment because it was clearly just that: a gag moment. "On my, Brandish has hayfever and it's flared up now thanks to Ajeel, oh she's distracted *karete chop* boom, she's out for the count and captured." There is no way any of that can seriously be considered a serious fight. Ultear vs Zeref was much more serious, whereas Brandish was used more in a more comedic fashion, hence it's a gag moment.

Similar to what Cana did, no? But yet somehow it's passed off as 'Power of Feelings.' This is why I personally don't think using Power of Feelings in power rankings argument is legit, if that was the case then 80% of the fights in the series would just fall under this blanket statement..

Again, Brandish's stuff there was a gag moment, Bacchus and co. were in a serious tournament. Yes, the war is serious too but was Brandish dead serious there? No. The only thing they really have in common is they got hit in the back of the head.

I'm actually in the camp of people that wasn't happy with this technique, so I'm pretty much with you on there, what I don't get is some people disqualifying it entirely, then a few sentences later they say stuff like 'YOU CANT ARGUE WITH WHAT IS IN THE MANGA'
There seems to be some reeking bias here honestly

Personally I didn't like it that much, the writing for it was, imo, poor and it could've been done much better in terms of explaining it etc.

 

[Summer]

The difference between cana vs brandish and Lucy vs brandish is significantly different. Brandish was distracted when cana attacked her while she's on guard and seemingly in another mode when it's Lucy vs brandish .

Lucy can easily do the same as what cana do to brandish if she want to... As shown in here

Spoiler

As for the Natsu vs neinhart , why can't we took the feats that natsu defeated neinhart? It's a disappointment but it's still feats.

Neinhart just have a bad durability hence why he's easily defeated.

 

[Cosmicstar]

Nienheart doesn't have bad durability. The same punch that took out Nienheart took out Jacob. This was from the same dude that one shot Bluenote. Natsu one shotting someone doesn't mean thy have bad durability.

Jellal used an attack that was super powered it covered the whole sky. His Grand chariot has never done that on the other occasions he used it. Nienheart to our knowledge doesn't have bad durability because both of the times he was taken out it was due to a super power spell by a powerful opponent.

 

[Static]

Nienheart doesn't have bad durability. The same punch that took out Nienheart took out Jacob. This was from the same dude that one shot Bluenote. Natsu one shotting someone doesn't mean thy have bad durability.

Jellal used an attack that was super powered it covered the whole sky. His Grand chariot has never done that on the other occasions he used it. Nienheart to our knowledge doesn't have bad durability because both of the times he was taken out it was due to a super power spell by a powerful opponent.

To be fair, the punch Natsu used on Neinhart was not only on a smaller scale than the punch he used on Jacob (it had far less AoE and took less time to use) plus it was clearly a casual spell and he wasn't in BDKM either. BDKM increases the power of his attacks and Natsu not using BDKM against Neinhart but using it against Jacob might indicate that he didn't really need to use all that effort and Neinhart's durability is worse than Jacob's.