Discussion Ranking the Sins

[Demonspeed]

Stop baiting please.

Well, I still think the fighting style argument is pretty lame, unless there is a clear exemple where it mattered in Taizai, as for yet I don't remember one. I thought it was clear we'd only consider PL, if not, then for me, the highest ranked sin would definitely not be neither Escanor nor Meliodas but Gowther, because his ability are already broken, and with him regaining his previous strength and his commandement, then... the guy's just haxed. I mean with 3k PL his ability worked on Galan. So with a PL around 40k, I'm pretty sure nothing could resist him.

So I don't even know why we're arguing anymore

If you say they don't matter then it means you consider PL as the reference for everything. Fighting styles include their Magic and how they fight at close and long range. Meliodas has Full Counter and clones to deal with Sunshine so unless Escanor has a PL much higher than him I have trouble imagining him victorious. Gowther's Invasion is powerful, but his attacks can be deflected and lacks destructive power, with a certain level in Spirit you can support them too. The difference in PL between him and Mel/Escanor is too big and Nightmare Teller works at close range. He is good at close range but not as good as them. Escanor and Mel can easily beat him with simple physical attacks. In my ranking, I put Gowther below King only because of King's Release, which would be too much for him.

Sigh
Dissapointing really, like I said, no disrespecting. It's no fun, everytime somebody post something which I enjoy reading, get's a reply... not beginning on that.

Anyway, Gowther will get his commandment back. Which rank does he deserve then? Still same rank?

I am expecting a PL of 50K at least. Depending on how Demon powers affect his abilities he could become a big threat. I can see him rivaling Merlin since she is the one keeping him in check.

 

[kiriya]

Moderator Notice:
Oi, keep it civil. There's no need to start mocking, belittling and baiting each other - keep calm, take a step back if you need to. It's just a manga, and insulting the other side for having a different opinion than you is just unnecessary. You can debate, and you can disagree, but making fun of and taking personal shots at the people that oppose you isn't needed and makes for a fight rather than a debate.

Any post deliberately baiting another member into an argument will be deleted from here on out.~ kiriya

 

[Rescorlian]

Stop baiting please.



If you say they don't matter then it means you consider PL as the reference for everything. Fighting styles include their Magic and how they fight at close and long range. Meliodas has Full Counter and clones to deal with Sunshine so unless Escanor has a PL much higher than him I have trouble imagining him victorious. Gowther's Invasion is powerful, but his attacks can be deflected and lacks destructive power, with a certain level in Spirit you can support them too. The difference in PL between him and Mel/Escanor is too big and Nightmare Teller works at close range. He is good at close range but not as good as them. Escanor and Mel can easily beat him with simple physical attacks. In my ranking, I put Gowther below King only because of King's Release, which would be too much for him.

I don't even get why you would imagine those kind of scenarii. Taizai isn't a manga where it matters anyway, nor it is interesting to do. When was a fight decided because of fighting style ? The only things that mattered were abilities and PL. Ban's ability it what allowed him to "win" against Galan, but his fighting style was not relevant at all.
You think Meliodas FC and clown would give him the advantage over Escanor ? Nobody can prove that before it happens. I could also throw things like Escanor is also really fast, because Estarossa didn't even see him attack. I could say the attack he used against Izraf is kinda non-targeting and thus wouldn't be sent back by FC. But I don't even see the point of making those fights fiction, since Taizai hasn't showed a single time that the important fights were decided by something other than brute force, raw PL, whatever. I mean it's not like we had a Shikamaru situation where someone won by outsmarting his opponent.

Therefor, I don't feel the need to put much more words about the Gowther's case. I feel like he should be a commandement specialize with high spirit, so even if he's weaker than others but his spirit stats remain higher, he could win the fights. Destructive power doesn't really matter if you can either break the other's spirit or make him suicide before he regains control. Also, Gowther showed he can fight at long range by shooting his arrows.

 

[Gallon]

I don't even get why you would imagine those kind of scenarii. Taizai isn't a manga where it matters anyway, nor it is interesting to do. When was a fight decided because of fighting style ? The only things that mattered were abilities and PL. Ban's ability it what allowed him to "win" against Galan, but his fighting style was not relevant at all.
You think Meliodas FC and clown would give him the advantage over Escanor ? Nobody can prove that before it happens. I could also throw things like Escanor is also really fast, because Estarossa didn't even see him attack. I could say the attack he used against Izraf is kinda non-targeting and thus wouldn't be sent back by FC. But I don't even see the point of making those fights fiction, since Taizai hasn't showed a single time that the important fights were decided by something other than brute force, raw PL, whatever. I mean it's not like we had a Shikamaru situation where someone won by outsmarting his opponent.

Therefor, I don't feel the need to put much more words about the Gowther's case. I feel like he should be a commandement specialize with high spirit, so even if he's weaker than others but his spirit stats remain higher, he could win the fights. Destructive power doesn't really matter if you can either break the other's spirit or make him suicide before he regains control. Also, Gowther showed he can fight at long range by shooting his arrows.

Demonspeed is referring to Meliodas' overall flexibility, versatility, swordsmanship, strategy of battle, and experience. Neither of these fall under the "strength" category, and yet they play an important role in a battle, an epitome being the battle between Estarossa and Escanor - Estarossa's strategy of engulfing Escanor's Cruel Sun by Blackout changed the flow of the battle to Estarossa's favor even though he was inferior in overall power. His magic was mighty enough to render Escanor's power useless for some time (I mean, Escanor could've channeled his Sunshine through his other hand, but that proves that he doesn't really think this through), sure, but it was the way that he decided to use it that gave him the advantage, not only his apparent superiority in magic.
Escanor is basically an extremely powerful being who is not fazed by most battles due to his immense power level. He keeps taking blows because he knows that they won't do jack to him, and then retaliates with overwhelming force. Besides the time he attacked Dolor and Gloxinia, we haven't really gotten much of a "smart-battle-guy" vibe from him.
So yeah, he's likely the one who'll have the greater power level out of the two most powerful Sins, but that does not guarantee his victory if they were to fight, unless, of course, his power level makes Meliodas' pale in comparison, but I doubt it's thaaaat much greater.

 

[Escanorzoldyck]

Demonspeed is referring to Meliodas' overall flexibility, versatility, swordsmanship, strategy of battle, and experience. Neither of these fall under the "strength" category, and yet they play an important role in a battle, an epitome being the battle between Estarossa and Escanor - Estarossa's strategy of engulfing Escanor's Cruel Sun by Blackout changed the flow of the battle to Estarossa's favor even though he was inferior in overall power. His magic was mighty enough to render Escanor's power useless for some time (I mean, Escanor could've channeled his Sunshine through his other hand, but that proves that he doesn't really think this through), sure, but it was the way that he decided to use it that gave him the advantage, not only his apparent superiority in magic.
Escanor is basically an extremely powerful being who is not fazed by most battles due to his immense power level. He keeps taking blows because he knows that they won't do jack to him, and then retaliates with overwhelming force. Besides the time he attacked Dolor and Gloxinia, we haven't really gotten much of a "smart-battle-guy" vibe from him.
So yeah, he's likely the one who'll have the greater power level out of the two most powerful Sins, but that does not guarantee his victory if they were to fight, unless, of course, his power level makes Meliodas' pale in comparison, but I doubt it's thaaaat much greater.

Actually escanor can dodge
He dodged one of izraf's attacks and did a back flip
He dodged gowther's arrows
He dodges when he needs to dodge

 

[Gallon]

Actually escanor can dodge
He dodged one of izraf's attacks and did a back flip
He dodged gowther's arrows
He dodges when he needs to dodge

Well, of course, it's not that he never dodges. The point is that he lacks technique and fighting experience, although he has immense strength. He's a Saitama, basically.

 

[Demonspeed]

I would not say that he lacks experience. I just find Meliodas's style more efficient. Escanor is incredibly fast so he could dodge a lot of attacks if he wanted, but it is not needed most of the time. His fighting style is basic and works because of his immense PL. Against Estarossa, I think he most likely decided not to channel Sunshine through Rhitta because of his prideful nature.

 

[Gallon]

I would not say that he lacks experience. I just find Meliodas's style more efficient. Escanor is incredibly fast so he could dodge a lot of attacks if he wanted, but it is not needed most of the time. His fighting style is basic and works because of his immense PL. Against Estarossa, I think he most likely decided not to channel Sunshine through Rhitta because of his prideful nature.

I wouldn't consider fighting far weaker opponents and overwhelming them a method of gaining experience. He lacks a refined fighting style. He knows how to fight, but his lack of experience shows in battle, especially at how he basically took a second Full Counter. He doesn't really think much during a fight.

 

[Demonspeed]

I wouldn't consider fighting far weaker opponents and overwhelming them a method of gaining experience. He lacks a refined fighting style. He knows how to fight, but his lack of experience shows in battle, especially at how he basically took a second Full Counter. He doesn't really think much during a fight.

I consider him a born warrior. It's not that his style is bad, it's simple and effective but against Meliodas he is disadvantaged because of Full Counter. Meliodas can't possibly overpower him in terms of strength but he can use his clones, Hellblaze, regenerate and is deadly with his sword. Escanor however can only attack with Rhitta without Magic(channeling Sunshine through it won't work here), and his physical strength is his highest attribute. He probably has other ways to use Sunshine at long range, Cruel Sun can be used in a way which would allow him to avoid Full Counter, Gilthunder was doing something similar with his lightning, but Meliodas is the kind of opponent who favors battles at close range.

 

[Gallon]

I consider him a born warrior. It's not that his style is bad, it's simple and effective but against Meliodas he is disadvantaged because of Full Counter. Meliodas can't possibly overpower him in terms of strength but he can use his clones, Hellblaze and regenerate, Escanor however could only attack with Rhitta without Magic(chanelling Sunshine through Rhitta won't work here), and his physical strength is his highest attribute. He probably has other ways to use Sunshine at long range, Cruel Sun can be used in a way which would allow him to avoid Full Counter, Gilthunder was doing something similar with his lightning, but Meliodas is the kind of opponent who favors battles at close range.

He has no style, to be honest - it's the most basic method of fighting, and that's just overpowering your opponents by raw power (well, I guess that's a style, lol). The reason he'd be at a disadvantage against someone very strong is because he lacks technique.
I'm not saying he'd lose, though. I still think that he'd be able to beat Meliodas.

 

[hunterxyamani]

If Meliodas said by himself that Escanor is stronger than him, and even Merlin said so ( and merlin did knew about the past meliodas and his curse and power ) why are you still discussing this...

 

[Aonori]

If Meliodas said by himself that Escanor is stronger than him, and even Merlin said so ( and merlin did knew about the past meliodas and his curse and power ) why are you still discussing this...

Peak Escanor is the strongest Sin, he makes short handy work of all commandments during daytime, even Estarossa was screwed when Escanor started to went "serious" and he says he was been rusty, that wasnt even Escanor´s 100%, I´d say against full savage Mel, it would take a 100% Escanor going all out but eventually meliodas would be fucked and die.

 

[Gallon]

We're discussing whether Meliodas' skill in battle would give him the chance to go toe to toe with Escanor; nobody's doubting that Escanor should have and has the higher raw power.

 

[Sylphe]

If Merlin included Prime Meliodas when she said that Peak Escanor surpassed any of the Sins in terms of PL then it's day clear that even if Melioads is a more skilled fighter than him, he would still lose !
The word "surpass" is very meaningful, it indicates that Escanor PL at noon is far higher than any of the other Sins, and we all know that if the difference in PL between two fighters is significant then the one with lowest is bound to lose unless he has some haxed ability !

 

[Isaiah Thomas]

If Meliodas said by himself that Escanor is stronger than him, and even Merlin said so ( and merlin did knew about the past meliodas and his curse and power ) why are you still discussing this...

Because Meliodas said this right after "Well, to begin with my strength isn't completely back to me yet". Imo that statement completely undermine the "Eacanor's even stronger than me" because there is no reason 2 say your strength isn't back if at your max Escanor is still stronger. Especially because at the time in the manga not the side story we knew nothing about Escanor or his powers.

 

[The President]

I mean, Merlin pretty much confirmed that Escanor is still far above any of the other sins (including Mel, who's power she had just witnessed).

 

[Escanorzoldyck]

If Merlin included Prime Meliodas when she said that Peak Escanor surpassed any of the Sins in terms of PL then it's day clear that even if Melioads is a more skilled fighter than him, he would still lose !
The word "surpass" is very meaningful, it indicates that Escanor PL at noon is far higher than any of the other Sins, and we all know that if the difference in PL between two fighters is significant then the one with lowest is bound to lose unless he has some haxed ability !

Fc cv rc are all hax
Commandment gowther probably could take escanor by himself
Zeldris'god ability seems so haxed
Merlin could freeze him for eternity if she's fast enough
King could petrify him
There was even one fodder hk in the first arc that had an ability that could potentially take escanor down under the right circumstances (the ability is called death iirc)
He can be sealed and so on.....

Escanor is op but not unbeatable

 

[HereNThere]

Escanor's power seems to work differently than others, so he may have immunity to certain moves. Merascylla ate his soul, yet it appeared his soul was just fine afterwards. We didn't see it return to it's body or anything. Same with Estarossa's Blackout. The only confirmed way to take out Escanor appears to be mentally tampering with him, so yeah, Gowther, with or without a powerup, can take him down.

As for Mel versus Escanor, I wouldn't say Escanor doesn't have a fighting technique, I think, currently, it's more fair to say that Escanor hasn't had a fight that allowed him to show any martial technique or, to be more precise, axemenship. All of the Sins, sans Merlin and King, have shown great expertise in their weapon of choice, so I expect Escanor to be no different.

Revenge Counter is, in my opinion, off the table because Mel can't afford to let his guard/power down when fighting Escanor. I think that's a one way ticket to death. Counter Vanish will probably be his best bet as it completely erases the magic, though we don't know if Sunshine will be susceptible to it. Full Counter will only work if Escanor sends Cruel Sun directly towards him. Escanor could potentially pull a Guila and ignite Pride Flare before Mel has a chance to use Full Counter.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

I'm not sure how Meliodas can re direct cruel sun considering the fact that Escanor has direct control over its movement. Even if Mel pushed it back Escanor could just thrown it back at him by using a simple hand gesture. It's not like Guila's where once the attack leaves her sword it's independent to outside forces - Escanor's cruel sun can still remain as a dependent move of his will. He was even shown to be flying on it, which means he must've set it in motion first in order to get into the air, and then would've had to direct its course so that he could be hovering directly over Estarossa's body.

 

[LivewireToriko]

My god.

You guys have beaten the horse to a unrecognizable state, revived it, and beaten it to death again.

Is it really that important whose stronger between the two?