Discussion Alvarez Mages Power Rate - [FINISHED]

The President · Jan 25, 2017

Seven777 said:
Fair enough, on these points. However none of them disproves the fact that good guys, even foddery ones are tanks. Lisanna, with absolutely no counter to Azir, was still able to fight Azir for an extended period of time, the same for Levy. Both are leagues below Lucy's level, to the point where she could probably solo both of them. Jacob not instantly killing her doesnt prove he's weak.

Its not the fact that he did not kill her, its how much attacks he threw and how much damage he outputted, and it was very little considering the amount of attacks he threw at her.

Thats not tanking, the dude is getting blown away like scrap. Larcade did more damage to Sting with one stationary chop then Jacob did with a barrage of punches to Lucy.

Bradman stopped one punch, a feat that Jacob accomplished against Natsu 2 seconds into their battle. Jacob was overpowering Natsu at almost every turn, a character who even without his fire has top tier physical strength.

Jacob did not stop a punch in the same manner that Bradman did. Bradman stopped Gajeels punch with the palm of his hand like nothing while Jacob "diverted" the punch by displacing it, which shows skill but not physical strength.

Sand World can barely be considered hax, its just a crappier version of Stealth. Transport is a one-hit kill, its in a totally different class that would rival even Age Seal if it was faster.

When you consider that Ajeel can assimilate into the sand and basically becomes pseudo omnipresent and invulnerable within its range (which is pretty huge) I would say its still one of the most impressive spells to date. On top of rendering the opponent a stationary target who can't see shit. I'd say its much more accurate to say that Stealth is the crappier version of Sand World, and not by a little either, SW is WELL above Stealth in utility. There are a few attacks which are OHKOs but that doesn't mean shit if they are easy to pull off.

The FT guild members are literally standing there wondering what is going on, thats at least a 5-10 second initiation. And thanks to hiro we even get a nice view of exactly how far it reaches, and let me tell you that for a super human character in FT, they can escape that AoE in one simple jump. If the fight is not taking place in a building, Transport is damn near useless.

Third Seal based on Bradman's own word is his strongest technique.

It might have a hidden utility we do not know about, maybe its the most useful but not the most powerful pound for pound. If it is that means it is > Mards curse, which means its power is greater then anything Jacob has regardless.

The sound he creates by walking isnt part of his body either. His magic is complete camouflage, Invel isnt gonna be able to see through it unless he has an actual counter to undo it like Lucy did.

Yes it is. You create sound with your own body, he masks that, not to mention that there are ways to make very very little noise by walking and I'd imagine that the acclaimed "strongest assassin" mastered that. Doesn't change the fact that he is still technically there.

And Invel's armor has no feats other than getting shattered by Gray.

It took a few attacks from Gray.

Transport Azir, if Azir's dead i assume his attacks will cease(Sand World did).
Azir's is told things by Sand, we have no idea what the process is, how much sand it takes, how long it takes or how accurate it is. For all we know by the time Azir senses where Jacob is, he'd already be somewhere else entirely.

Won't work, Ajeel jumps out of its AoE. Ok man, stop reaching, quite frankly it doesn't take a genius to notice that sand is going around a space in the shape of a body. Gaara from Naruto actually found a character with the exact same ability as Jacob in the same way (albeit with less sand). Said character also left footprints in the dessert mind you.[/QUOTE]

Seven777 · Jan 25, 2017

Dr. Monty said:
Its not the fact that he did not kill her, its how much attacks he threw and how much damage he outputted, and it was very little considering the amount of attacks he threw at her.

Thats not tanking, the dude is getting blown away like scrap. Larcade did more damage to Sting with one stationary chop then Jacob did with a barrage of punches to Lucy.

Jacob did not stop a punch in the same manner that Bradman did. Bradman stopped Gajeels punch with the palm of his hand like nothing while Jacob "diverted" the punch by displacing it, which shows skill but not physical strength.

When you consider that Ajeel can assimilate into the sand and basically becomes pseudo omnipresent and invulnerable within its range (which is pretty huge) I would say its still one of the most impressive spells to date. On top of rendering the opponent a stationary target who can't see shit. I'd say its much more accurate to say that Stealth is the crappier version of Sand World, and not by a little either, SW is WELL above Stealth in utility. There are a few attacks which are OHKOs but that doesn't mean shit if they are easy to pull off.

The FT guild members are literally standing there wondering what is going on, thats at least a 5-10 second initiation. And thanks to hiro we even get a nice view of exactly how far it reaches, and let me tell you that for a super human character in FT, they can escape that AoE in one simple jump. If the fight is not taking place in a building, Transport is damn near useless.

It might have a hidden utility we do not know about, maybe its the most useful but not the most powerful pound for pound. If it is that means it is > Mards curse, which means its power is greater then anything Jacob has regardless.

Yes it is. You create sound with your own body, he masks that, not to mention that there are ways to make very very little noise by walking and I'd imagine that the acclaimed "strongest assassin" mastered that. Doesn't change the fact that he is still technically there.

It took a few attacks from Gray.

Won't work, Ajeel jumps out of its AoE. Ok man, stop reaching, quite frankly it doesn't take a genius to notice that sand is going around a space in the shape of a body. Gaara from Naruto actually found a character with the exact same ability as Jacob in the same way (albeit with less sand). Said character also left footprints in the dessert mind you.

Perhaps, but that just means the amount of attacks Jacob is capable of landing is significantly higher than any other spriggans.

What? Jacob just put his arm up and lets Natsu's attack hit him, how is that different? He didnt divert anything, in fact it looked far more impressive.

Sand World's scale is impressive to be sure, but in terms of its function it doesnt do much more than Stealth does. Since even though he can assimilate into sand, he still has to take physical form to attack and once manifested he can be both seen and attacked. Unlike Jacob who can simply stay invisible while unleashing his attacks. I'll admit that i undersold Sand World a bit by calling it worse than Stealth, but its far less dangerous a skill than Transport.

At least 5-10 seconds? Hardly, being generous would be giving it 3 seconds. Dodge-able, like any other attack, but that hardly makes the spell useless. If Jacob can get behind Natsu, grab his head and shove it into the floor, he can get behind Azir and cast Transport where he wont see it coming.

An attack Gajeel can swim through to find Levy, then swim out himself carrying her, then get back up and attack? Yeah, Transport shits all over that.

You create sound with your body, but it isnt a part of it, the sound itself is in the air. Sure, Jacob's technically still there, with complete camouflage.

It took one punch from Gray, which then shattered it.

Alright, then Jacob jumps out of Sand Pits AoE.
I'm reaching? Haha, you're the guy trying to use an ability that was barely given any emphasis, was never used in combat and pretending to know how it works and how it can be applied to counter Jacob's stealth(a technique who's limits you also dont know), based on nothing but what happened in a totally different manga.

Doughboy · Jan 25, 2017

Only reason I can see Brandish coming at 9 is she less durable than Dimaria. Everything else about her points to high tier spriggan stuff. I rank God Serena, Dimaria, Brandish as all high tier so I gave them all the same score.

Jko · Jan 25, 2017

natsulucy said:
You can't blame Wahl for that.Machias race are naturally weak to lightning and without resistance even a comparatively weak lightning will destroy him.

And God Serena with only half of his DS Lacrimas was so dangerous that Sensei needed Acnologia to kill him like he did with END to defeat Dimaria.

He had lightning immunity. He didn't have a weakness to lightning so him getting oneshotted after lightning immunity was bypass shows how weak his durability was.

So? Getting oneshotted by Acno doesn't make you an adversary lol. Gildarts could've took him down imo.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 25, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 25, 2017 ---

DiMaria >>>>>> Larcade.
Her Hax >>>>>>>>>> His Hax.
Her Stats >>>>> His Stats.

DiMaria is straight up stronger than Larcade. He definitely ain't top 3.

Hermit · Jan 25, 2017

Wahl or Invel for me.
Wahl is WAY too overrated for someone who fought with a diseased opponent, and wasn't even able to beat him despite having all the advantages in that fight (lightning immunity, Laxus being basically a punching bag for like 50% of the fight), and his opponent having all the odds stacked against him. Plus people somehow think his Etherion cannon accounts for something :-_-

Invel because seriously, the dude lacks feats. His ice was melted by BASE Natsu. That was honestly underwhelming. Plus he only has 2 notable techniques to speak of. Ice Lock and Ice Slave. Outside that he really has nothing to show. Even Sand World was more impressive than the blizzard he cast over Magnolia.

Demon Hunter · Jan 25, 2017

considering that we compare Spriggans to Spriggans then I place Wall and Bloodman above Invel.

Ice Lock and Ice Slave shouldn't really work on freaking machine and a demon.

non humans basically.

heck, Ice Slave and Ice Lock is one of the reasons why Invel is strong and why he is overrated asf when it comes to PL.

Weakness and Macro = game over.

heck, Wall's bots can do the job for him and Etherion is overhyped as Jellal's Abyss Break though I would place it at the top when it comes to attack power. its Etherion after all.

The President · Jan 25, 2017

Wahl is mad underrated, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes out soon even though he is easily the 5th strongest spriggan. He has the highest attack power of the spriggan (Top 2 not included) and can spam it just as easily as Serena can. His physical stats are also amongst the highest of the spriggan. His body disposition (being a robot) makes him immune to half of the haxxed magic out there, and his weakness magic covers most of the other half, making him a walking anti-hax machine (literally). DiMaria is the only 'regular' spriggan above him, and thats purely because of Age Seal, and even still with it being stepped on by pseudo END she could potentially go down one or two places.

Seven777 said:
Perhaps, but that just means the amount of attacks Jacob is capable of landing is significantly higher than any other spriggans.

But that doesn't hit hard, so why does being able to land multiple attacks matter.

What? Jacob just put his arm up and lets Natsu's attack hit him, how is that different? He didnt divert anything, in fact it looked far more impressive.

It most certainly did not look more impressive, he literally just threw a guard up while Bradman is stopping Gajeels attack with the palm of his hand (base Bradman at that). Bradmans is a display of strength, Jacobs is not.

Sand World's scale is impressive to be sure, but in terms of its function it doesnt do much more than Stealth does. Since even though he can assimilate into sand, he still has to take physical form to attack and once manifested he can be both seen and attacked. Unlike Jacob who can simply stay invisible while unleashing his attacks. I'll admit that i undersold Sand World a bit by calling it worse than Stealth, but its far less dangerous a skill than Transport.

Yes it does. It allowing Ajeel to assimilate with it cuts Stealths weakness to omnidirectional attacks by half (since he can only be hit when he re-appears). Even when he does take physical form, he still cannot be seen. I'd argue that attacks like Sand Pit are far more dangerous then Transport in battle, let alone Sand World. At least with Sand Pit a solid chunk of the characters have no counter (even if those that do can counter it easily), Transport can be countered by anyone with a pair of legs on them.

At least 5-10 seconds? Hardly, being generous would be giving it 3 seconds. Dodge-able, like any other attack, but that hardly makes the spell useless. If Jacob can get behind Natsu, grab his head and shove it into the floor, he can get behind Azir and cast Transport where he wont see it coming.

Nope, at least 5 seconds. It activates and everyone is surprised, then Makarov has the time to physically ask what the hell is going on (which would take more then a second by itself) and then some more time passes as everyone is aimlessly looking around and then we get a panel showing the outside of the guild with Transport STILL seemingly being in effect. I'd wager that its the higher end of the interval I proposed, definitely not a meager 3 seconds, although even in that case it is still relatively easy to dodge for someone with a shred of battle instinct. Yes trying to put a number on panel-time is dodgy, but the point was quite clear that the attack is far far far from instant.

An attack Gajeel can swim through to find Levy, then swim out himself carrying her, then get back up and attack? Yeah, Transport shits all over that.

Its probably more deadly then that because if it wasn't then some of the other attacks Bradman showed would have been better then it, since according to Bradman they weren't that would mean that Gajeel got downright lucky to escape it.

You create sound with your body, but it isnt a part of it, the sound itself is in the air. Sure, Jacob's technically still there, with complete camouflage.

If you mask your bodies properties then you yourself aren't making any sounds, only when coming in contact with an object will THAT object make a sound, but Jacob is an acclaimed assassin so it stands to reason that he knows how to prevent noises from leaking out.

It took one punch from Gray, which then shattered it.

Actually it tanked the initial punch, it only broke when Gray added extra momentum to the thrust.

Alright, then Jacob jumps out of Sand Pits AoE.

Sand Pit is damn near instantaneous, Ajeel activated it and Elfman is balls deep in the ground a mili second later. Transport takes far longer. I'd liken Transports speed to Sand Tsunami, probably a little faster but its AoE isn't even a tenth of the latter so its still far less practical.

I'm reaching? Haha, you're the guy trying to use an ability that was barely given any emphasis, was never used in combat and pretending to know how it works and how it can be applied to counter Jacob's stealth(a technique who's limits you also dont know), based on nothing but what happened in a totally different manga.

Sand World was not only used in combat, but used to destroy someone who was holding their own with human Irene. Barely given emphasis? You are talking out of your ass bro, when it was used we had a good 10 different reactions to what was going on. It had more emphasis then pretty much any technique used by a spriggan to date, except maybe Age Seal and Larcades pleasure magic. Its hardly a matter of pretending to know how it works, the fact that a given body occupies a certain amount of space around which everything goes around is something I've known since elementary school. A ghost being made visible by throwing some cooking dough is a concept demonstrated by fucking goosebumps for crying out loud. The situation I am saying will happen happening in another manga is hardly the focus of my point, that was just to put a little extra emphasis on it.

Now tell me, do you seriously believe that Sand World won't reveal Jacob quite easily?

Takuan · Jan 25, 2017

@BluePegasus come on man, i wanna know :awe

Let it be Invel

BluePegasus · Jan 25, 2017

"But I can't have them underestimating me now.. That'd be boring..

BORINGGGG, DIMARIAAAA!"

#9

Wall Eehto
Score: 5,83333333

Highest score: 8 x 2 (@DiMaria Yesta, @randimari)
Lowest score: 2 x 2 (@Brandish, @Zelefomavis)

With that, the first non-human participant in this rate has fallen. It's Wall, my former favourite Spriggan, before Dimaria stole my heart. His design and personality are just excellent. Enough said about his characteristics for now, I think that the ninth spot is a good moment to say goodbye to our most beloved robot. I gave this piece of metal a 7,5.

How long have we actually waited to get a solid explanation of Wall's magic, though? Did we actually get an explanation anyway? Kagura referred to his magic as Alchemy the other day and well, that was it. But it all became a bit more clear; he can basically create whatever type of machine whenever he wants. An interesting, outright epic magic type and maybe one of my Spriggan's favourites. His most recognizable feat, of course, is the fact that he can analyse other people's weakness and process them into his machines. So yeah, we can conclude that Wall is a counter to like every mage. And with that I'm not even done yet. I hope y'all didn't forget his most impressive feat of all; this man has control over Etherion itself. Yes, Etherion. You know, that secret weapon of the Magic Council that can wipe away an entire area. It's a shame that it takes a very long time before it's activated, though. Wall would've definitely ended up higher in this list if that weapon didn't have any loading time, mark my words. I'm not going to start about his fight against Laxus, because.. You know, I absolutely don't agree with the way he was defeated by our man. Oh, and Neinhart made a Historia version of him. He ended up getting trolled by Minerva.. Or Makarov? You guys may pick one yourself. Long live off-screen fights!

Overview
Magic: Weakness
Spriggan Team: South
Highlights: Chapter 459, 460, 461, 472 & 473

Takuan · Jan 25, 2017

Oh, well that's a surprise. First surprise for me so far. I thought Wahl was more overrated that that. I think i placed Brandish in 9th place (only due to lack of feats, i thik she has more to show but eh), then Invel and Wahl slightly above. But i thought people considered him pretty good.
Not gonnna lie, 9th place seems pretty mediocre for Wahl.

I like that guy though, i wanted him to go further than that :/ but hey, this is a power ranking, not a popularity contest... So i guess it makes sense.

Hermit · Jan 25, 2017

Can't say I'm surprised, although for a moment there I got this horrible nightmare where it would be God Serena to be chosen. Now that would be the real shocker.

Dr. Monty said:
New Wahl is mad underrated, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes out soon even though he is easily the 5th strongest spriggan. He has the highest attack power of the spriggan (Top 2 not included) and can spam it just as easily as Serena can. His physical stats are also amongst the highest of the spriggan. His body disposition (being a robot) makes him immune to half of the haxxed magic out there, and his weakness magic covers most of the other half, making him a walking anti-hax machine (literally). DiMaria is the only 'regular' spriggan above him, and thats purely because of Age Seal, and even still with it being stepped on by pseudo END she could potentially go down one or two places.

Curious, when you say he was weakness magic, you're referring to his Proxy, right? You count Wahl along with his Proxy? Tbh, I always viewed that Proxy as his subordinate, the same way Irene has enchanted swords, Juliet and Hynhe as her subordinates, so I usually don't count it when looking at Wahl himself.
As far as the series goes though, his main body hasn't been shown to have Weakness Magic, so I don't think that would count in his arsenal.
About attack power of the Spriggans, why do you have his attacks so high? I mean, his missiles were cut easily by Kagura, and those were among some of the best weapons in his arsenal. The rest of his attacks seem fairly dodge able/tankable, like the bullets he used against Laxus. His long range cannon was blocked by Christina, which honestly isn't that impressive. That only leaves the attack he used that scorched the sky against Laxus, and even then I don't think that would work on a handful of characters as long as they dodge the attack (It wasn't exactly super fast or anything).
I do agree on his body disposition as a point though.
Although, Wahl's best feat is taking out Beth, so having him at 5th place.....ehh...

Doughboy · Jan 25, 2017

No surprises, Wall is a low to mid tier S12. Design is cool and unique. Being a Machia was a surprise. Jovial personality fits him. Assault Mode and the functions like Railgun and Anti-Matter Laser was the only good thing to come out from his fight against Laxus.

The President · Jan 26, 2017

Well, even though Wahl is in reality way above that (high-tier spriggan, top 3 notwithstanding), I am actually not surprised he is low, my first prediction to come true. Wahl and Ajeel are easily the most underrated spriggan of the entire bunch.

Emperor Spriggan said:
Curious, when you say he was weakness magic, you're referring to his Proxy, right? You count Wahl along with his Proxy? Tbh, I always viewed that Proxy as his subordinate, the same way Irene has enchanted swords, Juliet and Hynhe as her subordinates, so I usually don't count it when looking at Wahl himself.

The proxy is literally him in another much weaker body. Irene actually can use the power she bestowed upon her swords, she showed it when she tortured Mirajane, so I'm not sure how that example supports your point.

As far as the series goes though, his main body hasn't been shown to have Weakness Magic, so I don't think that would count in his arsenal.

He actually did. When he analyzed Laxuses body he was using weakness magic. I'm pretty sure hiro literally said weakness magic is Wahls main magic.

About attack power of the Spriggans, why do you have his attacks so high? I mean, his missiles were cut easily by Kagura, and those were among some of the best weapons in his arsenal.

How are the missiles the best thing in his arsenal? Its literally his most casual attack and is only used to hype other characters (i.e. Kagura, Minerva). Literally every other attack he has shown is superior to those missiles. That laser he used on Laxus is around Jupiter level. The RailGun is even stronger then that (unfortunately for him Laxus was resistant) and the Etherion Gun is even stronger then that. The fire blast he used upon initially entering assault mode is probably stronger then the RailGun but weaker then the Etherion Gun. The missiles in assault mode are literally faster and more compact (aka stronger explosion) versions of the ones that Kagura and Minerva stopped and the copper/zinc bullets which Laxus couldn't even physically react too are definitely more deadly then those missiles as well. You seriously cannot tell me that this guy doesn't have the strongest firepower among the spriggan sans August and Irene and that those casual missiles are his strongest attacks.

Not to mention, he was doing just as good against Minerva in base as Bradman was doing against Rogue at full power. That in itself shows that there is quite a wide gap in power between Wahl and Bradman, and the other spriggan of Bradmans level as well.

Brandish μ · Jan 26, 2017

Wall received a solid score of 2 from me. His attacks are as good as God Serena's, but I guess 4 lacrima >>>>>>>>>>> Etherion for hype :fail

Dr. Monty said:
How are the missiles the best thing in his arsenal?

They're not. But Idk what's so bad about Kagura cutting them. She isn't fodder. She had no problem cutting Larcade's magic...

And the one's he used on Laxus were in Assault form, the panel didn't even show them all detonating.

The President · Jan 26, 2017

Brandish said:
Wall received a solid score of 2 from me. His attacks are as good as God Serena's, but I guess 4 lacrima >>>>>>>>>>> Etherion for hype

Proper ranking. No regular spriggan should be going above a 3. Although I disagree that Serenas attacks are as good as Wahls. If anything I could see his physical stats edging Wahls out since matching a blow with Gildarts as a historia has quite a lot of merit to it. But offensively Wahl has shown to be more impressive IMO, even if we were to extrapolate Serenas attacks due to 'hype.'

They're not. But Idk what's so bad about Kagura cutting them. She isn't fodder. She had no problem cutting Larcade's magic...

I never said it was bad, as I said it was among the worst he had to offer. Cutting Larcades magic shouldn't be too hard, it doesn't seem like it has a physical form to begin with (which is what makes it so deadly). I bet I could do it.

And the one's he used on Laxus were in Assault form, the panel didn't even show them all detonating.

I can't recall, I just remember him firing a bunch of compressed missiles in assault mode. I don't recall if they even did any damage, but they are above the missiles stopped by Minerva and Kagura if not for the sole fact that they were used in assault mode and thus get the benefit of the doubt.

Hermit · Jan 26, 2017

Dr. Monty said:
The proxy is literally him in another much weaker body. Irene actually can use the power she bestowed upon her swords, she showed it when she tortured Mirajane, so I'm not sure how that example supports your point.

Okay, fair enough.
Let's view the Proxy and Wahl's real body as the same person. Their best feat is taking out the Raijinshuu + Ichiya in a suicide attack. Is that really a noteable feat? For someone who you say is the 5th strongest Spriggan, I think that's a pretty lackluster feat.

Dr. Monty said:
He actually did. When he analyzed Laxuses body he was using weakness magic. I'm pretty sure hiro literally said weakness magic is Wahls main magic.

Weakness Magic....without the bots? He was just analysing Laxu's body as you put it. Nothing more, nothing less. If it really was Weakness Magic then he would have found a weakness in Laxus's magic, or his body. Nothing of the sort happened.

See? There's a clear difference between Weakness Magic and what Wahl did in the fight against Laxus.

Dr. Monty said:
How are the missiles the best thing in his arsenal? Its literally his most casual attack and is only used to hype other characters (i.e. Kagura, Minerva). Literally every other attack he has shown is superior to those missiles. That laser he used on Laxus is around Jupiter level. The RailGun is even stronger then that (unfortunately for him Laxus was resistant) and the Etherion Gun is even stronger then that. The fire blast he used upon initially entering assault mode is probably stronger then the RailGun but weaker then the Etherion Gun. The missiles in assault mode are literally faster and more compact (aka stronger explosion) versions of the ones that Kagura and Minerva stopped and the copper/zinc bullets which Laxus couldn't even physically react too are definitely more deadly then those missiles as well. You seriously cannot tell me that this guy doesn't have the strongest firepower among the spriggan sans August and Irene and that those casual missiles are his strongest attacks.

I said the missiles were among some of the best weapons in his arsenal. I don't think you can make the argument that their used to hype other characters when Kagura used a sheathed Archenemy to cut them down, and Minerva used the same spell she used to dispell Natsu's LFD Hammer in the GMG, both of which are base techniques by the female mages. I don't exactly think hyping works that way.
How on earth is the laser Jupiter Level? Dude, have you seen what Jupiter can do? It LITERALLY took out a good number of the airborne forces that were with Ajeel, and damaged Ajeel enough for Erza to land a finishing blow on him and end the fight. Do you really think Wahl's laser is capable of that?

Compare this to Wahl's laser and tell me if the effect is the same.

You'd have a better argument by saying that the long range cannon he used that was blocked by Christina is at around the same power output as Jupiter. The laser isn't.
The RailGun is stronger than the laser, I'll agree. But seeing that the laser is hardly on Jupiter's level, I'm not sure if that accounts for much.
Etherion Gun has no feats, you aren't allowed to use it here.
What do you mean Laxus couldn't physically react to? He LITERALLY saw the bullets coming his way and pulled a Matrix before stopping them. He didn't even need to use lightning to vaporize them, that was just him going overkill.

I'm not saying his firepower isn't impressive, it is. But it's hardly as high as you're making it out to be. Sans August and Irene the only Spriggan who has firepower nearing those 2 is God Serena.
The Historia argument is a little faulty since I don't think he was revived at full power, although I do agree with you that Wahl is clearly above Bradman. But as far as the other S12 go, he isn't above that many of them.

Brandish μ · Jan 26, 2017

Dr. Monty said:
Proper ranking. No regular spriggan should be going above a 3. Although I disagree that Serenas attacks are as good as Wahls. If anything I could see his physical stats edging Wahls out since matching a blow with Gildarts as a historia has quite a lot of merit to it. But offensively Wahl has shown to be more impressive IMO, even if we were to extrapolate Serenas attacks due to 'hype.'

I didn't give a normal 12 above 3... if August/Irene/Larcade are above everyone else, Idk how you can represent that by giving the regular Spriggans 5+. Serena's best hype comes from Gildarts' mouth imo.

Dr. Monty said:
I never said it was bad, as I said it was among the worst he had to offer. Cutting Larcades magic shouldn't be too hard, it doesn't seem like it has a physical form to begin with (which is what makes it so deadly). I bet I could do it.

Nah you didn't say it I was just making a general comment. Cutting a missile shouldn't be too hard either imo, Kagura can stop an attack like that is all.

Dr. Monty said:
I can't recall, I just remember him firing a bunch of compressed missiles in assault mode. I don't recall if they even did any damage, but they are above the missiles stopped by Minerva and Kagura if not for the sole fact that they were used in assault mode and thus get the benefit of the doubt.

IIRC he fired like 9 on panel, and you see 1 detonate with the other 8 still coming. I don't think it did as much damage as the laser but I can't tell because it happened quickly.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 26, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 26, 2017 ---

So the most underrated to me was going to be Wall and Ajeel with a possibility of Larcade (should he not get 3).

Most overrated will be Brandish and God Serena I think.

The President · Jan 26, 2017

Emperor Spriggan said:
Okay, fair enough.
Let's view the Proxy and Wahl's real body as the same person. Their best feat is taking out the Raijinshuu + Ichiya in a suicide attack. Is that really a noteable feat? For someone who you say is the 5th strongest Spriggan, I think that's a pretty lackluster feat.

Huh? But we aren't looking at the proxies feats, we have no reason to do so. I'm just saying that what it did Wahl can do to a greater extent, including weakness magic and creating weakness bots.

See? There's a clear difference between Weakness Magic and what Wahl did in the fight against Laxus.

Just because he isn't making bots does not mean he is not using weakness magic. The first and foremost function of weakness magic is to analyze the opponent and identify any of their shortcomings. Then he can act accordingly.

I said the missiles were among some of the best weapons in his arsenal. I don't think you can make the argument that their used to hype other characters when Kagura used a sheathed Archenemy to cut them down, and Minerva used the same spell she used to dispell Natsu's LFD Hammer in the GMG, both of which are base techniques by the female mages. I don't exactly think hyping works that way.

And they are clearly his worst. He was also a historia against Minerva, and his missiles wasn't even directed at Kagura when she cut it so she had all the time in the world.

How on earth is the laser Jupiter Level? Dude, have you seen what Jupiter can do? It LITERALLY took out a good number of the airborne forces that were with Ajeel, and damaged Ajeel enough for Erza to land a finishing blow on him and end the fight. Do you really think Wahl's laser is capable of that?

Compare this to Wahl's laser and tell me if the effect is the same.

Jupiter did around the same much damage to Ajeel that the laser did to Laxus. I am being very generous by equalizing their durability, in reality, Laxus is probably a fair bit more durable then Ajeel and Wahls laser is more powerful by extension. AoE doesn't mean a lot in this situation, Jackal had some enormous AoE despite dishing out mediocre damage at best with it.

You'd have a better argument by saying that the long range cannon he used that was blocked by Christina is at around the same power output as Jupiter. The laser isn't.

If we go by the Inverse-Square Law then that attack is way stronger then Jupiter because it traveled a shit ton of distance and would have naturally lost energy/power in direct proportion to the distance it traveled. It doesn't matter though cause that attack requires prep and isn't really battle efficient as a result so I did not count it.

Etherion Gun has no feats, you aren't allowed to use it here.

Its hyped to be capable of eradicating some of Laxuses level without a trace. Not to mention, its fucking etherion, even if its a pocket etherion, thats still some massive firepower.

What do you mean Laxus couldn't physically react to? He LITERALLY saw the bullets coming his way and pulled a Matrix before stopping them. He didn't even need to use lightning to vaporize them, that was just him going overkill.

I mean just that, he clearly isn't physically reacting to the attack. He reacted to it and stopped it with an electrical wall, but he couldn't physically move. I thought three straight panels of him having the exact same facial expression and pose while the bullets get closer and closer was evidence enough of this.

I'm not saying his firepower isn't impressive, it is. But it's hardly as high as you're making it out to be. Sans August and Irene the only Spriggan who has firepower nearing those 2 is God Serena.

God Serena in no shape or form has firepower nearing those two, and he's definitely not above Wahl in firepower. Him having to use 4 DS attacks to defeat already heavily injured GoI is more pathetic then it is impressive. He did not do any sort of damage to the FT crew either, they looked like they were having a nice bath, another rather pathetic display. I'm giving him a lot of benefit by saying I'm sure he has a lot more to offer then that.

Brandish said:
I didn't give a normal 12 above 3... if August/Irene/Larcade are above everyone else, Idk how you can represent that by giving the regular Spriggans 5+. Serena's best hype comes from Gildarts' mouth imo.

I agree.

I also agree that God and Brandish will be the most overrated Brandish should have already been out. God has the potential to be high if Gildarts does something impressive but for now he is squarely in the middle of the pack, maybe a little above.

Nemispelled · Jan 26, 2017

I don't really get the logic here... sure, Wahl has some crap durability (I've always advocated for this, from the beginning), but that's no surprise considering he's more of an offensive type. He sacrifices defensive feats to produce all types of high-damage and large AoE spells. That's not even mentioning his attack speed and flexibility in top-classed maneuvers.

This is the "Spriggan 12 Power Rating" thread. If anybody has good firepower, it's Wahl.

What's even more surprising is that, Wahl's opponent was Laxus. The dude who casually nuked Ajeel, and would have oneshotted him to death if it weren't for August stepping in.

Laxus is arguably one of Ishgar's best top-tiered mage at the moment. The only person who is definitely above him is Gildartz.

It's expected that Wahl would be easily beaten by Laxus.. at least 75% of the Spriggan 12 at the moment would fail harder than Wahl did, if they had to fight Laxus in a 1v1.

The other Spriggans were fighting mages calibers below Laxus and they still performed even worse.

The result this time was completely far from expected, at least in my opinion. The last 3 came as no surprise, but it seems that there won't be an overall consensus from here on out. I didn't think that the votes would be so different, considering the Spriggans' performances in the manga, but I guess I was wrong.

Brandish is gonna be next for sure. And soon, following her will be God Serena. No doubt.