Chapter Tower of God Chapter 320 Discussion / 321 Predictions

[kkck]

One of the reason's I think there is more to it then just finding paradise is because her actions don't match her words. She says she wants paradise, but at the same time she is climbing the tower, building a team, looking for the thorn and if she says that she will fufill Arlen's wish that entails killing Zahard which is revenge in my book. Now maybe there is another way to break out of the tower, something Arlen might have told her. If that is the case, then why go through all this trouble. We were so close to knowing everything she knew during the Hell Train games when she made that bet with Koon. I am hoping she will eventually spill the beans during this arc.

I don't see what mean about rachel's actions not matching her words. I mean, the implication here is that rachel wants to climb the tower to get out. She can't do that alone, we know that much at least. I am not so sure that rachel specifically wants to murder zahard either. It is plausible that that is her goal however she has never made that point. Maybe if she has to kill zahard to get out of the tower it would be her goal but I can't imagine her caring beyond that.

 

[Mlu]

So here's my theory, 1st nothing is as it "seems" remember Garam said she'd only tell Baam part of the story which means she may be altering some facts cause Baam isn't ready for the whole truth. FUG as it is now , has 2 factions Baam followers who seem to be the elders within Fug and Karaka followers who are the newbies in fug, those who follow Karaka do so out of impatience and doubt in Baam because they think he's weak since he cares for people. This we learnt in the workshop arc, also Jinsung already stated that Luslec wasn't too pleased about Karaka trying to kill Baam which tells us that the founders of FUG don't want Baam dead except for the one elder Karaka has managed to get on his side. Jinsung also points out how Karaka has lost sight of FUG's plans/goals and is basically now a rogue member acting on his own for his OWN ambitions at whatever the cost and even warns him against this... I believe Karaka doesn't know the whole story of FUG nor the prophecy, this is why he wants the thorn because he believes he could use it somehow to kill Zahard but in truth the thorn was actually left behind for Baam which means not just anybody possibly Urek included can actually kill Zahard but rather Baam specifically is the irregular with the potential power to do this. I think there's parts of information that Garam left out, which actually specify why Baam is the 'chosen one'. If any irregular could kill Zahard I believe Enryuu or Phantanium would have done it themselves. The whole "irregulars" can kill Zahard narrative is there to mislead the reader so we're in the dark and get shocked when it comes out as to why ONLY Baam can do it.


Then there's Rachel who we actually know very little about, like her age. I think she was possibly a servant to Arlene and may have been asked to look after Baam whilst they were outside. I think Rachel knew and adored Arlene this is why she wants to achieve her goal of seeing stars, she must have been around Arlene quite often and that's how she got so sold on the idea of seeing stars. I think she is playing a role possibly assigned to her by Arlene herself, that she be this person and act like this in order to get Baam to climb the tower cause Baam had no intentions of climbing the tower and never would have opened the door without Rachel saying she's leaving him to go climb the tower. I think Rachel isn't/wasnt evil, at some point and was merely playing her role in getting Baam into the tower and also getting him to climb the tower. However I do think she may have lost sight of her role once in the tower as she saw how easily Baam made friends and how people always want to be around him, that may have changed Rachel and made her jealous which is why she now may be trying to go down a different path than the one she was initially intended for.

 

[axl2608]

I like your theory's, but I don't agree with the second one.
At the end of season 1 you can see the first floor from Rachel's side and it looks different.
Se really wanted to climb the tower and she didn't think about Baam at all.
But when Baam passed the test first and got sent up she was really upset.

Also, for the second theory, it sounds plausible, except the part with Phanta...he is an Axis so he would be able to kill Zahard regardles who made him immortal.
I think SIU stated once that is Phanta wanted he could destroy the whole Tower story so that would mean that he is stronger than the God(Axis) of the tower that potentially made Zahard immortal.

 

[Mlu]

Ohkay that's true about Phant but also begs the question as to why did he storm Zahards castle and not kill him? There's also that unanswered question which leaves a little bit of room for my 2nd theory and the Rachel part, I feel like could have also been something we were shown to completely throw us off about Rachel's true intentions. She's the biggest mystery in this, also how is it she knows so much about Baam and the rings she literally knows more about the tower and it's history than possibly 99% of its inhabitants in such a short time. Which means she's been in contact with either Luslec directly or has met Arlene before. I guess that part we really just have to wait and see as to who Rachel is.

 

[axl2608]

Regarding Phanta, we don't know his motivation at all...not why he storm the castle and not why he didn't kill Zahard.
I think this is the reason his sobriquet is The Riddle.

Rachel could have known Arlene...we have to wait and see

 

[kkck]

Ohkay that's true about Phant but also begs the question as to why did he storm Zahards castle and not kill him? There's also that unanswered question which leaves a little bit of room for my 2nd theory and the Rachel part, I feel like could have also been something we were shown to completely throw us off about Rachel's true intentions. She's the biggest mystery in this, also how is it she knows so much about Baam and the rings she literally knows more about the tower and it's history than possibly 99% of its inhabitants in such a short time. Which means she's been in contact with either Luslec directly or has met Arlene before. I guess that part we really just have to wait and see as to who Rachel is.

I think it is quite clear why phanta didn't kill zahard. Because he didn't feel like it. Phanta is effectively a god. A billion billion zahards would be less than worthless fodder to him. A billion billion billion administrators could never hope under any circumstances to affect him in any form or context. That is what godhood implies. Phantaminum doesn't even have to be physically present to kill zahard, he could will him dead from inconceivably long distances and there is not a speck of a chance of zahard ever resisting. If phantaminum wants zahard dead all he has to do is will it. SIU made the point that phantamimum could actually obliterate the tower out of existence.

Well, the spoilers from this chapter do heavily imply rachel knew arlen. I guess we can't rule our rachel having found another pocket arlen had or something.

 

[shaheer]

We Get a Look at ENRYU the super awesome existence. I am so loving this arc. He seems so young and rather motivated by the hatred of Zahard, i was kind a expecting something different.

 

[Jammin]

Official chapter is out.
http://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-2-ep-240/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=321

Wow, that was a loooong chapter. With a whole lot of information to absorb.

So Arlen Grace isn't really Baam's mom but rather the mother of a child who was killed by Zahard in a jealous rage whom she offered up to a god to possess it. In hopes of vengeance. And that's Baam. Did I get all that right?

Pretty dark and interesting stuff.

My main initial thoughts coming away from the chapter are...

- I wonder if Zahard regrets it? I mean, he's a villain for sure but when he eventually meets Baam again after all these years and is reminded of his sins I wonder what his reaction will be. If he was obsessed with Arlen to the point where he doesn't want anybody else even to this day. I have to imagine that he hates himself about as much as a person can.

- Wow, Baam and Rachel are probably really old. Like REALLY old. Sounds like he was born long before Garam was. He was probably in suspended animation for a while there but still. He and Rachel have got to be pretty ancient right?

- I don't trust Hwa Ryun, or dopplegangers there of! Not even a little bit.

- Yes, Wangan! Insult Rachel more! Rain the insults down upon her.

 

[Spirit]

This is a lot of information to process but boy was this chapter fantastic. We now know what Baam is the "God from the Outside" and that he's destined to kill Zahard. But somehow I feel like Baam will do whatever he wants in the end, such is the fickle way of any God after all. But the thing I'm most excited about is the fact that we see Enryu for the very first time. I didn't know what to expect of him but this is similar to what I pictured him as. Of course he's the God's messenger, so in this context, does that mean that the Tower's strongest denizen serves Baam?

 

[Demonspeed]

Spoiler: SIU's Blog post

This week's request is from 리디아-nim: The Koons at a swim meet. Or more of a life-threatening dive...? Why did I choose swimming? It's said to be pretty good for anatomy studies... it is said;;;

Actually, I took a swim class during college for a year, and a sports major that was in the class looked so cool when he did butterflies. I can't do that. I can barely freestyle, and I'm out of practice;; I was suprized at the amount of volleyball, and I like volleyball, with their speed and power. Until I started making Tower of God, I used to love going to watch games, but ever since I started... ㅠ I love watching baseball and basketball live too. I'm terrible at sports, but I loved watching;;;

Next week's theme is 'Occupation': Pick a character and a job/career they may have ^^

This episode... hm... A story that's from very very long time ago ^^;; I actually had a lot of thought over this, since I'm telling stories deep in the lore. Since I can't make flashbacks involving characters whose faces haven't been revealed yet I had to make Garam give an exposition, so a lot of the artistic direction was limited, yes. It's mainly text, but I hoped it still was interesting... that's what I was thinking.

I considered cutting the exposition as short as possible, but since so much has been spread around as "official lore" I thought explaining it in the main work would cut a lot of the nonconstructive theories, or predictions that only confuse readers. Since this is a webtoon, I get a lot of comments predicting what is to come, and from the previously-revealed lore so many esotaric theories were made at times so it broke immersion for some people actually I heard ^^;; So I thought to cut some of that kind of theories at the cost of increasing the text amount. So instead of being a story, it feels like I'm narrating a book, but considering the genre, which is a longer piece of fantasy, it's something we had to take care of. It's a genre specialty in other words. Isn't it fun? Hehe?

So this chapter an important tale has taken it by the storm. Since it's only text based, when the main actors show up later the past can be spoken of in more realistic looking terms. I really want to serialize the journey of Zahard and the 10 Clan-Heads sometime in one format or another. ((T/N: ToG sequel NOT confirmed))

(Many of you guessed on the meaning of FUG, and the G here does indeed mean "Grace". The "FU" well... I'll reveal later, but it's nothing big ^^;

Anyway, with Tower of God-certified OP Enryu entering the narrative ring in the end so it should be a exotic red crab party next week... or so one hopes hehe. Pohang has the best red crabs. (What kind of a train of thought is this.) (T/N: Pohang is a city in south-east Korea, north of Busan)

Hell-Jo, who got buried in the exposition will get more kick to his own story next week ^^
Well, weather's warming up, but still be on the look out, cold's about, stay healthy this week, and see you in the next one!

Thank you ^^!

Source.

- Yes, Wangan! Insult Rachel more! Rain the insults down upon her.

Your "hate" for Rachel is something else...

I do think it means Baam is V and Arlen's son. The God(I assume it's Phantaminum) just resurrected him.

 

[shaheer]

I think Phanta resurrected him and Most likely Enryu was some stead of Phanta. Baams power is abnormal and no wonder Baam doesnt have the physical quality of Zahard that was the only thing i couldnt explain when 319 was made available (i thought well baam inherited sth else that is his insane ability) Baams power doesnt seem like Magic so he didnt clearly inherit Arlenes power either, may be a combination of V and Phantas power?I am not sure why V didnt taken in Imortality initially especially when he was hell bent to fight the zahard establishment. Or was it that he couldnt make that deal with the admins? I think SIU is trying to spice up FUG to become a hero. The problem is I already hate FUG so that is a bit difficult to swallow for me.

Rachels past is a mystery. What was she some kind of a handmaid of Arlene when she started the journey with her dead child? I think she got into worshiping Arlene or something to the point she saw herself being the person who makes the dream come true for Arlene and was pissed off with Bam being somewhat related to Arlene and her dream/prophecy. Thus, she is trying too hard to enact the prophecy for herself. Like if you hear that the chosen one will destroy this building and you already see the chosen one is there you try destroying the building first so that in the act of doing the prophetic actions you are taken in as the real chosen one. I am not sure if i explained it well

 

[Demonspeed]

I don't see how this makes FUG looks good. Arlen is a crazy woman obsessed with revenge who wants her kid to do what she could not. Baam doesn't care about that and doesn't even know her. He just want to stay with his friends.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 6, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 6, 2017 ---

This is a lot of information to process but boy was this chapter fantastic. We now know what Baam is the "God from the Outside" and that he's destined to kill Zahard. But somehow I feel like Baam will do whatever he wants in the end, such is the fickle way of any God after all. But the thing I'm most excited about is the fact that we see Enryu for the very first time. I didn't know what to expect of him but this is similar to what I pictured him as. Of course he's the God's messenger, so in this context, does that mean that the Tower's strongest denizen serves Baam?

Baam is not the God. He has been resurrected by him.

 

[shaheer]

Well, it makes the FUG good in the sense that there is a personal vendetta involved and the whole orchestration of this vendetta was from zahard by locking the door and then trying to snatch the woman of V and eventually killing Bam previous self. That is it doesn't deal with Fug being good perse but it makes hard look devilish. Thus balancing the scale somewhat.

I would like Bam to do what he is doing that is the lesson he learned that he has to think for himself rather than only being for others. That might come to play. Personally, i want Bam to defeat Fug and zahard but not because he wants to go up but because that becomes the right thing to do. Alternatively, i ll be happy if Urek destroys Fug for some reason or another showing off his swag by destroying the Fug chief while Bam takes on Zahard.

It would be interesting if Rachel manages to get a thorn tbh. She will be one step closer to her dream thinking she is the actual one. It would be epic to crush her when she feels the greatest. That is what i want. Rachel gaining a thorn and then later koon crushing her hopes down to zero by destroying her plans and kicking her to some void so that she can never see a scintilla of light forget a starry sky

 

[Spirit]

I don't see how this makes FUG looks good. Arlen is a crazy woman obsessed with revenge who wants her kid to do what she could not. Baam doesn't care about that and doesn't even know her. He just want to stay with his friends.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 6, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 6, 2017 ---

Baam is not the God. He has been resurrected by him.

Ah, I thought I may have misinterpreted. But surely Garam said that the God had been resurrected inside Baam's body? And is this god Phantaminium? I'm a little confused

 

[axl2608]

Garam said that God will put his power in the baby and the baby will be revived or something like that, not that God will be in Baam's body.
Also, it never explicitly states that Phanta is that God...it could be him or some other Axis.
It depends on when it happened because SIU stated that Phanta was human before becoming an Axis, so right now it is only speculation that he was that God.

 

[Demonspeed]

Well, it makes the FUG good in the sense that there is a personal vendetta involved and the whole orchestration of this vendetta was from zahard by locking the door and then trying to snatch the woman of V and eventually killing Bam previous self. That is it doesn't deal with Fug being good perse but it makes hard look devilish. Thus balancing the scale somewhat.

I would like Bam to do what he is doing that is the lesson he learned that he has to think for himself rather than only being for others. That might come to play. Personally, i want Bam to defeat Fug and zahard but not because he wants to go up but because that becomes the right thing to do. Alternatively, i ll be happy if Urek destroys Fug for some reason or another showing off his swag by destroying the Fug chief while Bam takes on Zahard.

It would be interesting if Rachel manages to get a thorn tbh. She will be one step closer to her dream thinking she is the actual one. It would be epic to crush her when she feels the greatest. That is what i want. Rachel gaining a thorn and then later koon crushing her hopes down to zero by destroying her plans and kicking her to some void so that she can never see a scintilla of light forget a starry sky

It's hard for me to see Arlen as good and Zahard as bad with that story alone. Zahard did something awful with that kill, but Arlen and V decided to fight Zahard and his allies to climb higher and lost. Arlen refusing to marry Zahard is another matter.

I don't think anyone other than Baam will get the Thorn, even temporarily excepted if it's a villain, but there is no other Irregular climber besides Baam and Rachel so far. If Rachel gets the Thorn, she will become a Living Ignition Weapon, it'll be impossible to retrieve it without melting her. And I don't see her dying here.

Ah, I thought I may have misinterpreted. But surely Garam said that the God had been resurrected inside Baam's body? And is this god Phantaminium? I'm a little confused

Zahard killed Baam, Arlen kept wandering in the Tower, looking for a way to get out, all this time while carrying Baam's corpse, which could not rot thanks to her magic. She found a way out and the God decided to resurrect Baam.

 

[kkck]

Zahard killed Baam, Arlen kept wandering in the Tower, looking for a way to get out, all this time while carrying Baam's corpse, which could not rot thanks to her magic. She found a way out and the God decided to resurrect Baam.

This is something I find weird... If rachel and bam were out of the tower then why didn't rachel have the skies and stars she longs for? I guess the situation is that arlene got out of the tower, got to wherever the cave is located, presumably right outside the tower in some form but this was still not the true outside somehow since there weren't skies or stars. However there are still people there since rachel was there. Rachel met arlene, found bam.... Eventually arlene escaped this place. Or since she was outside the tower she finally died. And the cave bam was at was his tomb where his mother placed her before moving on. Rachel found him but kept him there to the best of her ability and didn't tell anyone about the resurrected boy in the cave.

 

[Demonspeed]

This is something I find weird... If rachel and bam were out of the tower then why didn't rachel have the skies and stars she longs for? I guess the situation is that arlene got out of the tower, got to wherever the cave is located, presumably right outside the tower in some form but this was still not the true outside somehow since there weren't skies or stars. However there are still people there since rachel was there. Rachel met arlene, found bam.... Eventually arlene escaped this place. Or since she was outside the tower she finally died. And the cave bam was at was his tomb where his mother placed her before moving on. Rachel found him but kept him there to the best of her ability and didn't tell anyone about the resurrected boy in the cave.

Stars can't be seen so easily from outside in the TOG world. Urek talks about the same thing and he is an Irregular. We know they can be seen from outside but not from everywhere.

 

[shaheer]

This is something I find weird... If rachel and bam were out of the tower then why didn't rachel have the skies and stars she longs for? I guess the situation is that arlene got out of the tower, got to wherever the cave is located, presumably right outside the tower in some form but this was still not the true outside somehow since there weren't skies or stars. However there are still people there since rachel was there. Rachel met arlene, found bam.... Eventually arlene escaped this place. Or since she was outside the tower she finally died. And the cave bam was at was his tomb where his mother placed her before moving on. Rachel found him but kept him there to the best of her ability and didn't tell anyone about the resurrected boy in the cave.

I dont think the outside is like stars and skies all around. It might be like the tower different atmosphere in diff zone. Not to mention the first chapters seem to give a vibe like a sort of dungen. In which case baam and rachel might have been in the foundation enclave rather than the wider world.

What i wonder is how come rachel is so dumb. Instrad of trying to find a escape route from the cave to the areas other than tower she harboured to get in and then destroy zahard and then climb to the infinite top.

 

[kkck]

I dont think the outside is like stars and skies all around. It might be like the tower different atmosphere in diff zone. Not to mention the first chapters seem to give a vibe like a sort of dungen. In which case baam and rachel might have been in the foundation enclave rather than the wider world.

What i wonder is how come rachel is so dumb. Instrad of trying to find a escape route from the cave to the areas other than tower she harboured to get in and then destroy zahard and then climb to the infinite top.

Well, clearly the "outside" of the tower rachel and bam come from don't have stars and skies considering rachel is currently looking for that and deemed it necessary to enter the tower to actually get to that. I also don't think we should conclude the entirety of the place bam was at was a dungeon or a cave. Surely bam was in a cave however that world likely was much bigger than that. There likely were other people from whom rachel comes from. And she had clothes and food... Those don't come from the air.

As for rachel, I doubt she is as dumb as you suggest. The situation is likely that the place they were at simply wasn't the outside. And the cave was just a small part of a bigger whole (which again, is not the outside). We also know for a fact that during rachel and bam's time at the cave she left bam alone presumably to go somewhere. Rachel most likely went to where there were other people and left bam alone and hidden in the cave.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 6, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 6, 2017 ---

Stars can't be seen so easily from outside in the TOG world. Urek talks about the same thing and he is an Irregular. We know they can be seen from outside but not from everywhere.

Ah, where was that said? I would have thought the outside world was more akin to our own world (except regular people can be ascended into axis considering phantaminum). And this is a quote from the wiki from mazino:

What fun would it be to become the king of the Tower? Tell Zahard to keep his boring seat. I will get out of the Tower. Outside the Tower, there exists a vast world, rolling skies stretch endlessly, and countless stars illuminate the darkness. A place that is a thousand times -- no, a billion times wider and freer than the tower. Once you imagine that such a world exists, don't you think all those things you want are all so trivial?

I would get the impression stars can indeed be seen from the outside. Though them not being visible from literally everywhere is perhaps not too weird.