Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[G_I_A]

"hard but very fun"... More despair for Black Clovers haters coming directly from their supposed source of joy:

 

[SkerllyFC]

No one doubt it was a success, aside from a few people. I refuse to call that Toriko anime, a representation of the manga. It's no where near passable.

The anime couldn't even capture the narrative style of the manga which used a lot of narrations to explain concepts and narrate over the creatures. A good chunk of world building was cut off and most of the gags too. Some useless bitch Tina was introduced so this was all accepted since it was a success? So yea Toriko had a lot more greater issues than just censorship, although Toriko suffered extreme censorship till near the end. Even after that it was still awful. They butchered the best arc in the series too.

Anyways, yeah Toriko is more gory than KnY but Toriko can be a lot more light hearted than KnY. So if they couldn't capture the serious tones in Toriko, then no way they could do KnY.

Doesn't matter how successful Toei can make it, if it's not enjoyable to watch then I wouldn't want it.

"Studio Clown" would've done a better job than Toei.

I may have watched like 5 episodes so far but it stands on its own fine. Not ever adaptation has to be 1:1 or faithful, because even the more faithful ones can fail badly. Did you know that most people like FMA 2003 better than Brotherhood, which is supposed to be the most faithful one? Or that the The Shining miniseries which is the most faithful adaptation of the book of Stephen King was less well received than the Stanley Kubrick adaptation?

An Adaptation should stand on its own, not become a mere copy of the product is translating. The latter affects heavily One Piece, since they´re animating 1 manga chapter, which can have very little information on its own. Blue Exorcist is another example.

That´s why I say that 95% of western otakus are VERY CLOSE-MINDED when it ocmes to adaptations.

If you want to read Toriko´s manga, fine. But if the anime stands on its own, then it is enough to be succesful. You can appreciate both approaches just fine.

 

[Nakura]

"hard but very fun"... More despair for Black Clovers haters coming directly from their supposed source of joy:

Interesting! I'm looking forward to seeing them drawn in Hori's style then!

 

[Leoat12]

Animes are made for the Japanese audience, if they do most of the animes faithful to the original story, there is a demand for it.
It is superficial to say that western otakus are close-minded as if we dictated how animes are made.

 

[Tamil]

I may have watched like 5 episodes so far but it stands on its own fine. Not ever adaptation has to be 1:1 or faithful, because even the more faithful ones can fail badly. Did you know that most people like FMA 2003 better than Brotherhood, which is supposed to be the most faithful one? Or that the The Shining miniseries which is the most faithful adaptation of the book of Stephen King was less well received than the Stanley Kubrick adaptation?

An Adaptation should stand on its own, not become a mere copy of the product is translating. The latter affects heavily One Piece, since they´re animating 1 manga chapter, which can have very little information on its own. Blue Exorcist is another example.

That´s why I say that 95% of western otakus are VERY CLOSE-MINDED when it ocmes to adaptations.

If you want to read Toriko´s manga, fine. But if the anime stands on its own, then it is enough to be succesful. You can appreciate both approaches just fine.

No it doesn't stand on it's own fine. I never said it had to be perfectly adapted nor was I nitpicking. It's hard to even call it a Toriko anime. Those issues I addressed were actual issues and it's not hard to spot. Yes, I enjoyed FMA 2003 but at least it felt like FMA, despite the changes. With Toriko, it doesn't feel like I'm watching an adaptation of Toriko, other than it being extremely watered down.

One Piece adaptation is fine, it just suffers pacing issues. If Toriko got the same/similar treatment as One Piece then I'd totally be fine with it. I don't expect all shonen adaptations to be at the level of say like JJBA. Even JJBA isn't perfect but it's probably the closest to being perfect.

Not all. You just don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the Toriko anime. Pretty stupid for you to say it stands on its own fine when you only watched 5 out of 147 episodes.

Even ignoring the Toriko manga continuity the anime is stupid. It had a terrible anime only ending which is probably the biggest asspull I've seen.

 

[TyVip]

Miura Tadahiro sounds like he's about to follow Togashi's path. A fun path fills with grass and pots.

Get back to work Tadahiro!!

 

[iceemperor]

No it doesn't stand on it's own fine. I never said it had to be perfectly adapted nor was I nitpicking. It's hard to even call it a Toriko anime. Those issues I addressed were actual issues and it's not hard to spot. Yes, I enjoyed FMA 2003 but at least it felt like FMA, despite the changes. With Toriko, it doesn't feel like I'm watching an adaptation of Toriko, other than it being extremely watered down.

One Piece adaptation is fine, it just suffers pacing issues. If Toriko got the same/similar treatment as One Piece then I'd totally be fine with it. I don't expect all shonen adaptations to be at the level of say like JJBA. Even JJBA isn't perfect but it's probably the closest to being perfect.

Not all. You just don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the Toriko anime. Pretty stupid for you to say it stands on its own fine when you only watched 5 out of 147 episodes.

Even ignoring the Toriko manga continuity the anime is stupid. It had a terrible anime only ending which is probably the biggest asspull I've seen.

I don't really want to bring up toriko's anime again but while they did change the narration style, you have to consider that having the narrator give huge expositions,going on into pseudoscience in toriko's case, would have affected the pace of the story much more as now you have an interlude to the story. Its for this reason that lots of anime adaptations remove the huge narration texts and just have the characters say it instead. Toriko, if anything, did this in a way as to not affect the immersion of the viewer such as the case with the shining gourami and having ichiryuu introduce and give full details such as its lack of natural enemies and that even Setsuno cannot capture it alive, rather than go and have the narrator monologue for a few minutes.

The ending and the festival arcs leading up to it are another story though. I was actually looking forward to starjun vs Toriko but that wasn't properly done and then that weird gourmet cell powerup for toriko was even more out of place. I would attribute that to the upcoming Dragon Ball Kai though. That arc doesn't end on a satisfying note with Komatsu gone so they probably wanted to wrap everything up in a nice bow, at the cost of completely destroying manga events. Dragon Ball though probably had more priority over Toriko.

 

[Tamil]

I don't really want to bring up toriko's anime again but while they did change the narration style, you have to consider that having the narrator give huge expositions,going on into pseudoscience in toriko's case, would have affected the pace of the story much more as now you have an interlude to the story. Its for this reason that lots of anime adaptations remove the huge narration texts and just have the characters say it instead. Toriko, if anything, did this in a way as to not affect the immersion of the viewer such as the case with the shining gourami and having ichiryuu introduce and give full details such as its lack of natural enemies and that even Setsuno cannot capture it alive, rather than go and have the narrator monologue for a few minutes.

The ending and the festival arcs leading up to it are another story though. I was actually looking forward to starjun vs Toriko but that wasn't properly done and then that weird gourmet cell powerup for toriko was even more out of place. I would attribute that to the upcoming Dragon Ball Kai though. That arc doesn't end on a satisfying note with Komatsu gone so they probably wanted to wrap everything up in a nice bow, at the cost of completely destroying manga events. Dragon Ball though probably had more priority over Toriko.

Toriko's narrations weren't always science heavy & if Toei did omit the narrations that were science heavy, I would've been okay with it (or they could dumb it down if they were competent). The narrator would provide world building or just simply narrate what's going on which was there for a reason. It only got science heavy to explain abilities and some environments but other than that I don't see a reason to exclude it entirely. Even the simpler stuff like a lot of the comedy/gags which Shimabu was known for got omitted. It's not like the gags were hard for a younger audience to understand or were inappropriate. It's his specialty after all...

Yep, let's not forget that Midora's backstory either that was several chapters long was done in like 5-10 minutes. It was atrocious and very stupid, even if Dragon Ball Kai was going to replace. That war arc had a ton of build up. It just showed how little they cared. I would've been fine with an evening/afternoon timeslot or if a more experienced director was handling the anime.

Toriko really felt underwhelming compared to Toei's other adaptations. I'm not the biggest Toei fan but I will give credit when it's due and it's hard for me to do so with this adaptation.

 

[G_I_A]

Miura Tadahiro sounds like he's about to follow Togashi's path. A fun path fills with grass and pots.

About?! hahahaha.

 

[TyVip]

About?! hahahaha.

you know the meme Togashi put Hunter x Hunter on hiatus to play Dragon Quest? I was making a joke comment about how Tadahiro might join Togashi to play Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild and all the games he wrote in the author's comment section.

 

[ChocoBar9]

I'm curious, which to you (in your opinion) are good writers?

Maybe "good writer" wasn't the best words just that it would have been a much stronger series if you cut off the Assassination plot , keep Koro-sensei as this enigma throughout and focus more on the class and that's pretty much it. The core of the series was about Koro-sensei's relationship with the class and the actual "Assassination" portion was both the hook and its weakest element since it was just used to pad out a relatively short story.

I
Among others on this thread, I have to say you have harsh critics (nothing wrong with that) toward pretty much all current ongoing series (again, nothing wrong with that)

I don't think I'm harsh, hell I've pretty much stated on numerous occasions that this is Jump's most interesting lineup in years, about the only series I give shit to is Black Clover but even I have become tired of shitting on it and now my annoyance is towards Jump's shameless shilling of it. After a while when you keep throwing putty on putty you're just left with a giant pile since it won't change no matter how hard you shit on it.

So I want to know what is your "standard", or should I say consistent quality series from start to finish.

Well there's no such thing as a series that maintains its quality throughout its run but a series I thought didn't really dip in quality was Hoshin Engi.

 

[TyVip]

Well there's no such thing as a series that maintains its quality throughout its run but a series I thought didn't really dip in quality was Hoshin Engi.

Except

Spoiler

The part with the alien and the ancestor are pretty weird though.

I might need to re-read it sometime in the future, Taikoubou is a great MC, a total troll.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Except

Spoiler

The part with the alien and the ancestor are pretty weird though.

I might need to re-read it sometime in the future, Taikoubou is a great MC, a total troll.

Ehhh...I was willing to let it slide since the series was pretty good throughout but much of my love towards it is the great cast and Taikoubou being a memorable MC. Very underrated series.

 

[Mammo]

So the discussion from the last page got me thinking

out of all the shonen manga printed under jump comics (wsj, sq, plus, v jump) what is the manga with the most realistic chance of getting adapted by Toei?

In WSJ everything is either too young or doesn't fit their mo
Everything in SQ is too dark and edgy for kids
Plus have 2 potential candidates, Magmel which have been on hiatus for ever, and Magic Eater which needs to improves its manga sales first before talking about an anime
V have Souten no Soura, which totally fits their style, 8 volumes and ongoing, a lighthearted action and adventure and a large colorful cast for them to make merch and toys out of, but DQ 10 came out 5 years ago, it's no longer relevant

I guess if Poro survives they can adapt that?

 

[ChocoBar9]

So the discussion from the last page got me thinking

out of all the shonen manga printed under jump comics (wsj, sq, plus, v jump) what is the manga with the most realistic chance of getting adapted by Toei?

Zumo is pretty much the only one I can see Toei doing at the moment and (if it survives) Dr. Stone since they can market it as a wacky adventure series ala Toriko.

 

[Bigivelfhq]

Does anyone know why it is rare for manga publishers(not just Shueisha) to provide worldwide sales for manga series. Is it because the sales from outside Japan are too insignificant or is there another reason because even big hits like Naruto for example did not get concrete worldwide sales till 2014 after concluding and the sales were definitely significant i.e. from 130 million in Japan to over 200 million worldwide. I personally don't believe it could solemnly be due to insignificant sales if even Naruto took 15 years for us to get concrete worldwide numbers.

Publisher mainly deal with Print numbers. That is practically their sales, if you don't count the returns of books.

For sales to the end user, it is done by the retailer. The guy that buys from the publisher through Distributors the print copies, and sells it to the people. Retailers are many though and they sell many series from many distributors and many publishers. So they really don't care to collect that data(specific series sales). Who does that is a specialized tracking company, in Japan Oricon, that contacts retailers and makes a deal for them to report their sales numbers per each day(or something like that), and than process it and at the end provide that data.

Still both print numbers and sales of books aren't provided that frequently because it is a private and important business information. Such Information isn't supposed to be provided freely unless there is a specific goal.

 

[tirakai]

You don't even need to discount JQ for being too dark and edgy, the only non-gag series in the magazine without an anime yet that's old enough to consider adapting is Kono Oto Tomare! and that isn't their type of thing for a completely different reason.

You never know with Toei though, I didn't think World Trigger was their type of series at all (it's slow and methodical and pretty low on goofiness) and they done that old sumo manga a couple years back pretty suddenly.

 

[Bigivelfhq]

People talking of Yaiba not being for Toei Animation. Guess what? Who is the most known, King, anime studio for their Youkai and horror anime? Toei Animation!
Gegege no Kitaro, Devilman, Ghose Sweeper Mikami, Hell Teacher Nube, Ayakashi, Mononoke, Thriller Restaurant, ... yep, Toei Animation.

Still I don't think Toei is right now in a position of taking another series from Weekly Shonen Jump, they already have to many projects running and planned for the near future. But who knows, they can decide to take Yaiba too. Certainly it will not air in the Dragon Ball Super-One Piece block.

About the Sumo manga, Toei Animation is a pretty traditional company that does from time to time pretty old school stuff or old school style. Yep, Toei Animation is the oldest still alive anime studio, and also the most traditional :O, I know unexpected. Being Aberou Matsutarou right in that alley.

 

[SkerllyFC]

People talking of Yaiba not being for Toei Animation. Guess what? Who is the most known, King, anime studio for their Youkai and horror anime? Toei Animation!
Gegege no Kitaro, Devilman, Ghose Sweeper Mikami, Hell Teacher Nube, Ayakashi, Mononoke, Thriller Restaurant, ... yep, Toei Animation.

Still I don't think Toei is right now in a position of taking another series from Weekly Shonen Jump, they already have to many projects running and planned for the near future. But who knows, they can decide to take Yaiba too. Certainly it will not air in the Dragon Ball Super-One Piece block.

About the Sumo manga, Toei Animation is a pretty traditional company that does from time to time pretty old school stuff or old school style. Yep, Toei Animation is the oldest still alive anime studio, and also the most traditional :O, I know unexpected. Being Aberou Matsutarou right in that alley.

Hinomaru Zumo would be possible by using some of Tiger Mask W´s team.

 

[Bigivelfhq]

So the discussion from the last page got me thinking

out of all the shonen manga printed under jump comics (wsj, sq, plus, v jump) what is the manga with the most realistic chance of getting adapted by Toei?

In WSJ everything is either too young or doesn't fit their mo
Everything in SQ is too dark and edgy for kids
Plus have 2 potential candidates, Magmel which have been on hiatus for ever, and Magic Eater which needs to improves its manga sales first before talking about an anime
V have Souten no Soura, which totally fits their style, 8 volumes and ongoing, a lighthearted action and adventure and a large colorful cast for them to make merch and toys out of, but DQ 10 came out 5 years ago, it's no longer relevant

I guess if Poro survives they can adapt that?

Toei can do any of the series. While the studio main focus is kids, they do a lot of different things. People really underestimate Toei in that aspect, but they are the big pioneers of a lot of anime "genres" and "styles". Did you know that Toei Animation was the big booster of Moe "genre". Yep, with Kanon in 2002. Showing that is possible to make a highly popular series with Moe.

I would say that right now there is really little chance for any series to be adapted by Toei. But who knows? The planning team in Toei might have loved a series in the Jump labeled magazines and decided to push for that series to be adapted.

About fitting their mo, and being too dark and edgy for kids. There is nothing in Jump Comics right now(for my knowledge) that is "too dark and edgy for kids" compared to Mononoke and Ayakashi. And those were still original Toei Series. The best Psychological anime series I ever seen, is from Toei Animation, Kuchuu Buranko.
Next Season we will get another original Toei Animation series, Kado: The correct Answer. And that series is basically a Political and Philosophic series.