Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

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Avok

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Which jump series had/has the best overall antagonist?
His ending was lackluster in the sense of how he was convinced, but Pain is one of the best. His set of values and beliefs, along with his plans were excellent. If Kishimoto and his editor(s) weren't hacks they would have saved him for the final fight, developing his plan and plot weight.

Still, in the spawn of around 100 chapters Kishimoto managed to create a really solid character that surpasses pretty much everything he did before and after his arc, and ranks up there with the best villians of the demographic.

Madara was okay, but his character and ideals got too convulted, the same as the manga.
 

Koi Kage

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Madara was okay, but his character and ideals got too convulted, the same as the manga.
I couldn't really get behind Madara as an antagonist I saw him more as the "second in command" character and to me it fit him better, though I have to say I thought Kaguya was a complete waste of a character in the way Kishimoto wrote her at the end.
 

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I've always had a soft spot for Cell(Dragon Ball), but I also liked Housen(Gintama).

Current favourites are probably Shigaraki(MHA) and Muzan(KNY).
 

tirakai

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I always really liked Shaman King's Hao, he feels like the calm and confident OP type villain done right. He has emotions that aren't just 'smug', there's people he genuinely cares about, his backstory works well for his character and motives.

He's also the only time I can think of where the antagonist genuinely felt unbeatable from beginning to end. There was no crazy power scaling, no bs last minute powerups to make the MCs win, no secret weakness or bonus hidden more OP villain, he was simply too strong for the main crew to beat and it stayed that way. Antagonist wins.
 

Tamil

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Pucci, Midora/Starjun (part 1 Toriko), Meruem & Shinobu Sensui
 

WesKR

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I really liked Doflamingo and Enel. Vegeta and Frieza are probably the most memorable villains for me though.
 

Leoat12

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Can you explain what's great about Hungry Marie? I fail to see what's so great about it. The humor isn't that great, the characters so far are unlikeable save for Marie, and it generally seems all over the place. Even the art isn't anything outstanding. This is coming from a fan of Beelzebub. None of the charm of Beelzebub is present in Hungry Marie. Also, just because something is unique and goes against the norm doesn't make it good. Don't assume people only like formulaic manga just because they don't like a certain mediocre "unique" manga.
The bold part is a fundamental rule that people are forgetting recently because I see so many random and nonsensical things making success.

And don't insult our intelligence saying that Beelzebub is only below Gintama, Sket Dance is far far far better than Beelzebub. I think it is better than Gintama as well, but I don't want to be crucified today so I will leave this discussion for another day.
 

Kefka

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Hmm, antagonists from WSJ? The ones that stick out for me are Toguro from YYH, Chrollo and Meruem from HxH and especially Dio and Kira from JoJo.

Kira is such an amazing villain. Diamond Is Unbreakable wouldn't be nearly as good if it weren't for him.
 

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Viz's choices are the obvious ones. They were never going to pick up Poro or U19, and it doesnt seem Westerners can appreciate Hungry Marie. Its either love or hate.

Kamui best villain. Infact Gintama has so many amazing villains... As does HxH, Jojo.

humor isn't that great, the characters so far are unlikeable save for Marie, and it generally seems all over the place.
I can say the same for Dr Stone... People like to take shots at it's characters, but theyre no worse than Stone's obnoxious, useless and edgy trio. Infact Robot and WNL are the only two this round with bearable characters (and even Robot only has 2)...
It suffers from the same problem as U19 in that it takes 4 chapters just to get a basic idea of what kind of series it's planning to be but even U19 at least had a theme to tie the lazy attempts at genres together with the adults are oppressing kids and the kids have to fight back! stuff. All Marie has is the gender flipping and while that might have been fine a decade or two ago it's not a novel thing any more, a series needs more than just 'he's a boy trapped in a girl's body XD' to be entertaining.
That actually doesn't bother me. Too many series fall into the trap of putting everything they have into the first chapter, and they have nothing to follow it up with. Poro had this exact problem, as did almost every new series from 2016 (aside the ones that stayed). Id prefer they took their time, although i understand rookies cant really do that.

No doubt Marie is the least structured and slowest of the round, although its comedy has been enough keep me interested so far. I dont think Tamura would have gotten away with it if he didnt have past success. Hell he still might not get away with it. Anyway, it will be interesting to see if it ranks terribly or well. I dont believe the colour page is any indication given how many have failed in the past that got the same treatment).
 

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Well, RoboLaser really only has 3 or 4 characters so far. I can understand what you're saying though.
About Dr. Stone, am I the only one who was hoping it would be a battle series?
 

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Well, RoboLaser really only has 3 or 4 characters so far. I can understand what you're saying though.
About Dr. Stone, am I the only one who was hoping it would be a battle series?
Before I read the first chapter I was thinking it be similar to early Berserk: more adventure, drama, sci/fi that was close to the way alchemy in Fullmetal Alchemist was, but I got kind of disappointed when I actually read chapter one.
 

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Hunter x Hunter has three with Chrollo Lucifer, Meruem, and Dragon Quest.
5, Hisoka and Shaiapouf are great too

I agree about DQ, Hadlar, Hyunkel, Crocodine and both Vearns where pretty cool villains, Zaboera was an annoying little shit too

I would add YGO to the mix, Pegasus, Bakura and Marik will always have a special place in my heart
 

ChocoBar9

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Which jump series had/has the best overall antagonist?
In my opinion its easy to make your antagonist all powerful but its much much harder to make him a good character in his own right. Too many mangaka fall into this trap where all you need to do is make your antagonist strong so that your protagonist's victory is well deserved forgetting to actually give him a character in the process hence why you wind up with characters like Kid Buu and Aizen who aren't known for anything other than their powerlevels at this point. Having a personality also helps as well, lord knows that's what helped Frieza get his status as GREATEST DBZ VILLAIN for whatever reason, but some of the most memorable villains always seem to be characters who weren't made to be anti-thesis to the protagonist but actual characters who just so happen to collide with them. That being said its no surprise that Raoh gets so much recognition that he gets given how much was put into him and how he embodies what makes a memorable character moreso than a good "villain" since you get to understand his motivation, see him realize his conquest and his eventual demise which bare in mind has nothing to do with Kenshiro Raoh is just the final obstacle he has to overcome and some may argue that Shin was more of a rival to Ken than Raoh but that amount of focus on an antagonist is very uncommon in shounen about the only other character I can think of that had as much substantial focus and writing put into him was Meruem and that's why I'm excited to see what Horikoshi does with Shigaraki since he's obviously setup as a mirror image for the the protagonist and grows at the same rate so seeing what becomes of him on the opposite alignment is very interesting.

Not only is she the best female antagonist, not only is she the smartest antagonist but to top it all off she is actually among the very few Jump antagonists to actually win in the end but So Dakki manages to do it all while remaining so entertaining through it all. Houshin Engi is a very underrated series and manages to subvert shounen conventions while also celebrating them Dakki is interesting in that she's incredibly pragmatic and actually changes her goal once she realizes a better one which actually winds up saving the protagonist in the end and despite all this she's not a writer's pet like Hao just a very entertaining character who just so happens to be villain.

And of course Togoro without a doubt the best character Togashi has ever written and the among the best Jump antagonist ever, some may argue that belongs to Meruem but I found his development more interesting than the actual character itself, some may say Shinobu and then I'll laugh at you but Togoro had this grounded, laid back nature about him that made him pretty relatable and a backstory that made his fate all the more tragic. Togoro was the perfect adversary to Yusuke in that he not only pushed him to his limit but made him a better person as a result, all this without having a grandiose plan for domination, being a fated rival or anything just a hired thug which manages to be more memorable than a gay man with multiple personalities.
 

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Dio And Kira and Diavolo And Acdc. I mennt do you guys even read the bet mangas in jump??
 

Kadir0

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My favorite antagonist is Kaguro from Kekkaishi

My current favorite antagonist is Isabella from TPN.
 

Mammo

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speaking of villains that dress like a mummy, no arc in Kenshin is better than Shishio and his group

amazing sakuga in bnha latest episode

 
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