Fantasy Gidarts Clive vs Spriggan

[HybridTheory]

Gildarts one-shot all Spriggan under God Serena and he stops at Eileen.

How people can think Brandish magic can't work against Enchanted Neinhart but can work against this

Spoiler: One Punch Gildarts

 

[LaGOAT]

Some of y'all are funny when laxus didn't show MP above hax sprrigans he gets no diff but if it's gildarts it's a different story when both are in the same tier lol but anyways he stops at rahkied (the 3rd strongest spriggan debate me if u want I'm ready) @Pheromone brandish still solo enchanted neinhart all She have to do is use physical feats to no diff nienhart

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 20, 2017 ---

Gildarts one-shot all Spriggan under God Serena and he stops at Eileen.

How people can think Brandish magic can't work against Enchanted Neinhart but can work against this

Spoiler: One Punch Gildarts

Because ppl will say that's the tenrou gildartz he will get no diff by spriggan tier opponents

 

[Arjuna]

According to Zeref Larcade's magic works on Acno, so that there is an instance of magic working on a dragon. There is also Eclipse working on the GMG Dragons, Silver's magic working on Atlas Flame's corpse, Last Aegis working on GMG Dragons, Dragon Enslavement magic working on GMG Dragons, The "motion sickness counter" magic working on Acnologia, Enchantment "enhancements" working on Eileen's dragon subordinants, possibly more that i cant remember. But you get my point, to me it seems pretty clear that dragons are still perfectly susceptible to magic, humans being unable to beat them was likely just because they werent strong enough without the advantage DS gives them. Not that i think GIldarts could beat Eileen, if he couldnt beat August then he cant beat Eileen.

Also, im pretty sure that statement Mashima gave about spriggan's being the strongest character's in FT's history was either hyperbole or referring only to villains he's introduced, cause higher MP or not there are plenty of FT characters who are far stronger than many average spriggans, not to mention Zeref and Acno.

I should have phrased the statement properly like @Pheromone said

"No DC type Magic has been shown to be penetrate Dragon skin in the Manga".



Hiro actually mentioned that Spriggans have the highest M.P.But as they are glass canons they lost.

Gildarts has to actually show a feat where people are sweating in front of him in his casual state for me to say his MP>most Spriggans.

I don't see anywhere in the manga that says "You need DS magic to defeat a dragon". You would have to prove that statement. That is an assumption made by fans. It was never canonically stated.

And Belserion's era is different from now. His words cannot be used as evidence because they are so outdated. In the current era, there are far stronger wizards with actual magic capabilities.


In regards to the Spriggans being the "strongest", that was Mashima's words at the start of the arc.

Mashima explicitly mentioned recently that he changes and switches stuff on the spot. Meaning that nothing is planned or set in stone.

What he said in the past could be changed and discarded. Which is the case now since most of the Spriggans were proven to be hilariously beaten.

And feats >>> words.


Let me ask you a question. And let's see if you can answer it.

What will Irene do if she is turned into blocks?

Gildartz actually managed to crash August into pieces. The only reason why August can reform his body is because he can copy a magic and cancel its effects.

Irene can't copy and cancel spells.

That means once Gildartz turns her into blocks, she is as good as finished.

And August has higher durability than Irene.

That means Gildartz could turn Irene into blocks at the start of the battle. Which gives the automatic victory to Gildartz.

That's because no one has been able to defeat Dragon without DS because of their durability,and surely not Gildarts whose Haja-Kensei Zetten don't have the raw strength to beat a human August let alone a Dragon.And August don't have the same durability as a Dragon and he lacks their skin.

You can't say Belserion's era is outdated when most strong characrers are from that era.

Zeref,Acnologia,Irene,Dragons,Anna and 5 DS.


Gildarts haven't shown any feat or recieved a comment from his allies that his M.P. is something exceptional.

Spriggans 12 members Magic power and strength was compared to (Base-God Serena) who is weaker than Gildarts( Goi members never sweated in God Serena presence or said that his Magic power level is something special...

GOI already knew about Serena and they were allies at one point of time so they will not be shocked by Base Serena.They had investigated about the Spriggans so they didn't express shock or sweated even after seeing August.

Gildarts one-shot all Spriggan under God Serena and he stops at Eileen.

How people can think Brandish magic can't work against Enchanted Neinhart but can work against this

Spoiler: One Punch Gildarts

That was pre time skip.Team Natsu had already said in Caracole island that they have never witnessed this amount of magic power before on seeing Brandish.

Meaning no M.P. in pre-timeskip is as large as Brandish's.

 

[Nemispelled]

That's because no one has been able to defeat Dragon without DS because of their durability,and surely not Gildarts whose Haja-Kensei Zetten don't have the raw strength to beat a human August let alone a Dragon.And August don't have the same durability as a Dragon and he lacks their skin.

You can't say Belserion's era is outdated when most strong characrers are from that era.

Zeref,Acnologia,Irene,Dragons,Anna and 5 DS.


Gildarts haven't shown any feat or recieved a comment from his allies that his M.P. is something exceptional.

Haja-Kensei Zetten isn't his only attack though. It may be the most effective in terms of knocking out his opponent. But he also has plenty of other crash spells at his disposal, which are more effective in weakening his opponent first.

Gildartz's crash spell allows him to turn his opponent into blocks or miniature versions of themselves.

So far, that crash spell has worked on every opponent, up to date. Even the strongest Spriggan.

He successfully turned Natsu and August into blocks.. that means he would have no problem doing it to Irene as well.


And once Irene is reduced to mere blocks or miniature sized versions, Gildartz can practically stomp on her body or use all the "Haja-Kensei Zetten" he wants. By that point, Irene would have already lost.

And like I said from the beginning, Irene's dragon transformation is a slow process.

She would first have to transform into a semi-dragon humanoid before turning into a full-fledged dragon, which gives Gildartz enough time to use his crash spell on her.

Gildartz's movement speed and attack speed is far greater than Irene's since he was even able to outspeed August and turn him into blocks.


Unless Irene has a way of copying and canceling a magic like August, I don't see her winning. It's almost an insta-win once Gildartz crashes her body to pieces.

 

[Seven777]

@natsulucy @Pheromone
The fact that no offensive spell has harmed them just demonstrates their immense durability when fighting opponents FAR weaker than they are, Bottom line is that we know for a fact that dragons are not immune to magic.

 

[Arjuna]

Haja-Kensei Zetten isn't his only attack though. It may be the most effective in terms of knocking out his opponent. But he also has plenty of other crash spells at his disposal, which are more effective in weakening his opponent first.

Gildartz's crash spell allows him to turn his opponent into blocks or miniature versions of themselves.

So far, that crash spell has worked on every opponent, up to date. Even the strongest Spriggan.

He successfully turned Natsu and August into blocks.. that means he would have no problem doing it to Irene as well.


And once Irene is reduced to mere blocks or miniature sized versions, Gildartz can practically stomp on her body or use all the "Haja-Kensei Zetten" he wants. By that point, Irene would have already lost.

And like I said from the beginning, Irene's dragon transformation is a slow process.

She would first have to transform into a semi-dragon humanoid before turning into a full-fledged dragon, which gives Gildartz enough time to use his crash spell on her.

Gildartz's movement speed and attack speed is far greater than Irene's since he was even able to outspeed August and turn him into blocks.


Unless Irene has a way of copying and canceling a magic like August, I don't see her winning. It's almost an insta-win once Gildartz crashes her body to pieces.

I am talking about a situation where Gildarts is facing Dragon Irene from the beginning.

No one onscreen in the Manga has been able to beat a Dragon without using DS Magic.

So Crash Magic isn't working on a Dragon and nor is it penetrating a Dragon skin.

 

[Nemispelled]

I am talking about a situation where Gildarts is facing Dragon Irene from the beginning.

No one onscreen in the Manga has been able to beat a Dragon without using DS Magic.

So Crash Magic isn't working on a Dragon and nor is it penetrating a Dragon skin.

Well, I guess we differ there.

I have no way to prove my point, that I'm aware of. But I disagree that Gildartz will stop at Irene.

I happen to believe that he'll pass every single other Spriggan besides August.

Feat-wise, he comes pretty close to that. Portrayal and hype wise, I'm certain that would be the case.

 

[Arjuna]

@natsulucy @Pheromone
The fact that no offensive spell has harmed them just demonstrates their immense durability when fighting opponents FAR weaker than they are, Bottom line is that we know for a fact that dragons are not immune to magic.

In the past?

If you remember humans only turned the war when they got DS Magic.

And surely there were hundreds and thousands of Mages in the past who were very strong.Considering the fact that all mages from 400 years ago are top-tier.

Zirconis had already mentioned humans were nothing but "food" to the Dragons.So this means no human magic ever worked on a Dragon.

Since GMG we knew only and only when DS Magic came into existence humans had any chance.

You may argue because Dragon's have hard skin or they are too strong so they were unbeaten.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 20, 2017 ---

Well, I guess we differ there.

I have no way to prove my point, that I'm aware of. But I disagree that Gildartz will stop at Irene.

I happen to believe that he'll pass every single other Spriggan besides August.

Feat-wise, he comes pretty close to that. Portrayal and hype wise, I'm certain that would be the case.

Ok last point can you tell how are you thinking Gildarts have more M.P. than Brandish?

i)Did anyone ever sweat in front of casual Gildarts?


ii)Did anyone ever comment on Gildarts's M.P.


iii)Did anyone ever manage to beat a Dragon without using Dragon Slayer Magic?

 

[Nemispelled]

Ok last point can you tell how are you thinking Gildarts have more M.P. than Brandish?

Well, clearly their performance this arc shows.

Brandish has been outclassed and surprised by fodder Enhanced Neinhart and Base Natsu.

Gildartz has been comparable to God Serena and August.

i)Did anyone ever sweat in front of casual Gildarts?


ii)Did anyone ever comment on Gildarts's M.P.

Spoiler

Clearly, these panels show who is superior in the FT guild. Everybody looks up to Gildartz and knows that he is their superior.

This is noted by Gray when he called Gildartz "reliable as ever".

Natsu was ecstatic to see Gildartz. He wouldn't have had the same reaction if somebody like Max or Warren showed up.

Makarov even seems glorified in Gildartz's presence.

It's clear who is the best fighter and most superior member in the guild, just by Gildartz's entrance into the battlefield alone.

iii)Did anyone ever manage to beat a Dragon without using Dragon Slayer Magic?

No, but nobody has managed to defeat CSK.

Doesn't mean the dude can't be beaten.

 

[Seven777]

In the past?

If you remember humans only turned the war when they got DS Magic.

And surely there were hundreds and thousands of Mages in the past who were very strong.Considering the fact that all mages from 400 years ago are top-tier.

Zirconis had already mentioned humans were nothing but "food" to the Dragons.So this means no human magic ever worked on a Dragon.

Since GMG we knew only and only when DS Magic came into existence humans had any chance.

You may argue because Dragon's have hard skin or they are too strong so they were unbeaten.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 20, 2017 ---

Ok last point can you tell how are you thinking Gildarts have more M.P. than Brandish?

i)Did anyone ever sweat in front of casual Gildarts?


ii)Did anyone ever comment on Gildarts's M.P.


iii)Did anyone ever manage to beat a Dragon without using Dragon Slayer Magic?

Sure, they turned the tide of the war, just means that DS magic gave them the advantage.
I wouldnt bet on even a single mage 400 years ago being top tier other than EIleen, Zeref and Acno and even if there were what good would a handful of top tier mages do against an army of dragons? At best that just one or two more dead dragons of the hundreds and thousands Eileen's dragon army killed. Any human effort would be practically meaningless.

Humans being food to Dragons means nothing other than they were weaker, has absolutely no relation to "magic immunity", something we know for a fact isnt real. Dragons are affected by magic, the only reason "offensive magic" has yet to affect them is because no dragon in this series has fought someone who is their equal or superior, only people far weaker.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2017 ---

Spoiler: Gildart's MP hype

 

[Arjuna]

Well, clearly their performance this arc shows.

Brandish has been outclassed and surprised by fodder Enhanced Neinhart and Base Natsu.

Gildartz has been comparable to God Serena and August.

Spoiler

Clearly, these panels show who is superior in the FT guild. Everybody looks up to Gildartz and knows that he is their superior.

This is noted by Gray when he called Gildartz "reliable as ever".

Natsu was ecstatic to see Gildartz. He wouldn't have had the same reaction if somebody like Max or Warren showed up.

Makarov even seems glorified in Gildartz's presence.

It's clear who is the best fighter and most superior member in the guild, just by Gildartz's entrance into the battlefield alone.





No, but nobody has managed to defeat CSK.

Doesn't mean the dude can't be beaten.

Surely Gildarts have more M.P. than anyone in the Guild and the strongest as of now.So they will be ecstatic on seeing him.

But that doesn't mean he has more M.P. than most Spriggans.

And surely no one commented that his M.P. is something extraordinary in casual state not while fighting.


I had argued that August will be able to beat Gildarts but you disagreed.But see how right i was.Same with Dragon Irene.


And CSK and Dragons are different.Human Mard Geer could somehow go against CSK but on the other hand no one has been able to beat a Dragon without using DS Magic.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 20, 2017 ---

Sure, they turned the tide of the war, just means that DS magic gave them the advantage.
I wouldnt bet on even a single mage 400 years ago being top tier other than EIleen, Zeref and Acno and even if there were what good would a handful of top tier mages do against an army of dragons? At best that just one or two more dead dragons of the hundreds and thousands Eileen's dragon army killed. Any human effort would be practically meaningless.

Humans being food to Dragons means nothing other than they were weaker, has absolutely no relation to "magic immunity", something we know for a fact isnt real. Dragons are affected by magic, the only reason "offensive magic" has yet to affect them is because no dragon in this series has fought someone who is their equal or superior, only people far weaker.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2017 ---

Spoiler: Gildart's MP hype

That's when they actually started fighting.But in his casual state?

That's not the case.


Well you can't judge how many humans were there against Dragons.There maybe an army of human mages against a single Dragon but still failed.


The fact remains that no human has ever managed to beat a Dragon without using DS Magic.

 

[Nemispelled]

Surely Gildarts have more M.P. than anyone in the Guild and the strongest as of now.So they will be ecstatic on seeing him.

But that doesn't mean he has more M.P. than most Spriggans.

And surely no one commented that his M.P. is something extraordinary in casual state but not while fighting.


And CSK and Dragons are different.Human Mard Geer could somehow go against CSK but on the other hand no one has been able to beat a Dragon without using DS Magic.

Well, I don't see how "people's comments" are good sources of evidence. When judging a battle, current feats takes the most importance. If Gildartz's performance has been better than Brandish's, that means he is more superior.

And Brandish's current feats pale in comparison to Gildartz feats in this arc. Regardless of MP, Gildartz would still pull the victory.

(Although I have no doubt that Gildartz's MP is greater than Brandish's.)


I agree nobody has beaten a dragon without DS magic, but that's because most of them are top-tier (Acnologia, Igneel, Parent Dragons).

And the GMG dragons fought very weak version of the dragon slayers. That was a long time ago, most of the characters have grown a lot stronger.

Irene is on the level of low-tier dragons. Much like the GMG dragons. This was proven after 95% broken-boned Erza with a DS enchanted blade reverted her back to human form with a single slice.

Gildartz has more power than that. He should have no problem reverting Irene back to human form.

But fair enough, I'll give you the last words if you so wish. I'm still convinced Gildartz would pass Irene and stop at August.

 

[Seven777]

Surely Gildarts have more M.P. than anyone in the Guild and the strongest as of now.So they will be ecstatic on seeing him.

But that doesn't mean he has more M.P. than most Spriggans.

And surely no one commented that his M.P. is something extraordinary in casual state but not while fighting.


And CSK and Dragons are different.Human Mard Geer could somehow go against CSK but on the other hand no one has been able to beat a Dragon without using DS Magic.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 20, 2017 ---

That's when they actually started fighting.But in his casual state?

That's not the case.


Well you can't judge how many humans were there against Dragons.There maybe an army of human mages against a single Dragon but still failed.


The fact remains that no human has ever managed to beat a Dragon without using DS Magic.

Its not the case for any normal spriggan other than Brandish either

Just means the humans were weak, Rogue alone dominated 7 dragons with his own homemade magic

 

[Arjuna]

Its not the case for any normal spriggan other than Brandish either

Just means the humans were weak, Rogue alone dominated 7 dragons with his own homemade magic

That's hax ability.And again we knew most Spriggans have same amount of M.P. so it's natural they will have more or less similar M.P. other than top 3 and Chronos and DS God Serena.


But the fact still remains no one(not even strong mages)have shown the ability to beat a Dragon without DS Magic.That's what this Manga has been potraying.

 

[Seven777]

That's hax ability.And again we knew most Spriggans have same amount of M.P. so it's natural they will have more or less similar M.P. other than top 3 and Chronos and DS God Serena.


But the fact still remains no one(not even strong mages)have shown the ability to beat a Dragon without DS Magic.That's what this Manga has been potraying.

I doubt Chronos' or Serena's MP is anything special, in fact imo Chronos is weaker than most spriggans without Age Seal. But anyway, Gildart's has the "ridiculous MP level" hype, the fact that he didnt get it while just standing around doesnt mean much when most spriggans are in the same boat.

So what if its a hax ability? Cubing people is a hax ability too. Rogue defeated dragons 7v1 and he isnt even on par with them. Dragons have been portrayed as too powerful to beat by humans, sure. But they have never been portrayed as immune to magic.

 

[Arjuna]

I doubt Chronos' or Serena's MP is anything special, in fact imo Chronos is weaker than most spriggans without Age Seal. But anyway, Gildart's has the "ridiculous MP level" hype, the fact that he didnt get it while just standing around doesnt mean much when most spriggans are in the same boat.

So what if its a hax ability? Cubing people is a hax ability too. Rogue defeated dragons 7v1 and he isnt even on par with them. Dragons have been portrayed as too powerful to beat by humans, sure. But they have never been portrayed as immune to magic.

Chronos M.P.

Infact in his casual state he exerted more M.P. than Gildarts while fighting did

Spoiler

http://www.mangahit.com/fairy-tail/475/8

@Nemispelled

 

[Seven777]

Chronos M.P.

Infact in his casual state he exerted more M.P. than Gildarts while fighting did

Spoiler

http://www.mangahit.com/fairy-tail/475/8

@Nemispelled

Not really, in fact the amount of shock everyone felt was still far milder than everyone's encounter with Brandish. Less than Gildarts too.

 

[Arjuna]

Not really, in fact the amount of shock everyone felt was still far milder than everyone's encounter with Brandish. Less than Gildarts too.

It's not mild.

Carla "What's this obscene magic power. In Gildarts's case.

Ultear,"What?What is this power"? in Chronos's case.

No differences.In both cases Wendy was blown away by the aura.


But the major difference is Chronos exerted this in casual state while Gildarts did while fighting.

 

[Seven777]

It's not mild.

Carla "What's this obscene magic power. In Gildarts's case.

Ultear,"What?What is this power"? in Chronos's case.

No differences.In both cases Wendy was blown away by the aura.


But the major difference is Chronos exerted this in casual state while Gildarts did while fighting.

Mild compared to the reaction Brandish got.
I'd say the transformation itself demonstrates considerably more exertion than Gildarts headbutting Serena. Not that i think exertion means anything anyway.

 

[LaGOAT]

@natsulucy ur logic is very flaw we all know how much u love ur boy natsu r u gonna tell me that the spriggan 12 MP are higher than current natsu DF? Becuase nobody comment or is sweating about it zeref look calm when he went DF vs when he used BKDM? I know for a fact u believe that DF>END u also believe that DF is natsu strongest form but mavis nor zeref mention about his MP. Idc if team natsu was commenting about brandish MP they were caught off guard and was becuase hiro obviously wanted to hype them up. Gildartz has more MP than most sprrigan it's common sense. Gildartz didn't say comment or sweat on augusts MP doesn't mean august isn't a top tier sprrigan. Wall mention how laxus is top tier of the FT guild meaning he knows he is strong . gildartz laxus natsu gray erza and gajeel have sprrigan tier MP gildartz and laxus MP are higher than natsu erza and gajeel just like august and Irene has higher MP brandish and dimaria I don't care if no1 comment about guildartz MP its portrayal and feats that proves it also since u believe that humans can't beat dragons u have to accept that zeref is weaker than Irene