@natsulucy ur logic is very flaw we all know how much u love ur boy natsu r u gonna tell me that the spriggan 12 MP are higher than current natsu DF? Becuase nobody comment or is sweating about it zeref look calm when he went DF vs when he used BKDM? I know for a fact u believe that DF>END u also believe that DF is natsu strongest form but mavis nor zeref mention about his MP. Idc if team natsu was commenting about brandish MP they were caught off guard and was becuase hiro obviously wanted to hype them up. Gildartz has more MP than most sprrigan it's common sense. Gildartz didn't say comment or sweat on augusts MP doesn't mean august isn't a top tier sprrigan. Wall mention how laxus is top tier of the FT guild meaning he knows he is strong . gildartz laxus natsu gray erza and gajeel have sprrigan tier MP gildartz and laxus MP are higher than natsu erza and gajeel just august and Irene has higher MP brandish and dimaria I don't care if no1 comment about guildartz MP its portrayal and feats that proves it also since u believe that humans can't beat human u have to accept that zeref is weaker than Irene.
Are you saying Natsu's MP in FDKM or Base below any Spriggans?
Yes i believe that his M.P. is below in those states than any Spriggan.Well your post is quite offensive in that respect.
And regarding DF he has to show feats.
And why is Natsu in a thread of Gildarts?
Author himself has mentioned that Spriggans are the strongest i.e. their M.P. is more than any others in one volume afternote.So will you accuse him also of bias?
And yes Zeref too has to show a feat of defeating a Dragon.
That's because END's Curse power is above Chronos.
But against Devil Slayer he faced a worthy match just like Dragon Irene was crushed by Dragon Slaying magic enchanted sword even though Dragon Irene's MP>Wendy + Erza combined.
This arc clearly proved having high M.P. or C.P. doesn't mean you will win a match.Gildarts have good DC,endurance,durability and speed.
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Seems like most people also believe Gildarts stops at Brandish.
Organ bust is overrated, its only ever been used as a surprise attack, same as Ice Lock. And even if she could do it mid battle Gildarts would cube her first because he's faster.
Brandish wouldn't have been able to get Natsu the way she did if he powered up to oppose her the way Neinhart did.
That said, I don't really find Gildarts all that impressive; certainly didn't impress me like even some lesser S12 members did. I'll give him the benefit of a doubt and say he's just about Serena's level because he wondered who would win in a fight between them. Serena himself, as I've already mentioned in the past, doesn't impress him as such. He's no better than the other members S12.
Neinhart- Gildarts is likely to defeat Neinhart because this dude wasn't much of fighter. Still Neinhart could also make Gil's life difficult depending on who he summons.
Jacob- Jacob merely needs to disappear and clap. Not much needs to be said here.
Brandish- He'd likely defeat Brandish because he's a great fighter and she's not much of one (like Neinhart). He just shouldn't let his guard down once.
Bloodman- Bloodman has very interesting abilities. I think Bloodmans wins (he's nigh-untouchable) or at least force a draw.
Wall Eehto- A fight with Wall Eehto is Gildarts type of fight. Straightforward and relatively gimmick-free. Wall Eehto could perhaps analysis a weakness in Crush-Magic and turn this battle into an epic brawl.
Ajeel- The Sand guy is one of the most impressive S12 to me. He would make this fight very interesting and difficult for Gildarts because Crush magic is countered by his Logia (one piece, I know). I think Ajeel likely wins.
Dimaria- Gildarts can't realistically put up a fight against her for similar reasons he can't against Jacob.
Invel- Invel is a powerful combatant, but Gildarts straight-up loves combat. I think the slave magic could be broken by Gildarts' willpower and magic (not sure about this though), and I think Crush-Magic is a good counter to most of his Ice powers. Ice Armour has very interesting properties though. I not so sure about this one -- it is difficult either way.
Serena- Serena has versatility on Gildarts which alone allows him to make very interesting combos regards of the Crush-Magic. Like Gildarts implied, this could go either way.
August- This battle is beyond Gildarts.
Larcade- There isn't much that needs to be said here other than Gil has no chance.
I should have phrased the statement properly like @Pheromone said
"No DC type Magic has been shown to be penetrate Dragon skin in the Manga".
Hiro actually mentioned that Spriggans have the highest M.P.But as they are glass canons they lost.
Gildarts has to actually show a feat where people are sweating in front of him in his casual state for me to say his MP>most Spriggans.
That's because no one has been able to defeat Dragon without DS because of their durability,and surely not Gildarts whose Haja-Kensei Zetten don't have the raw strength to beat a human August let alone a Dragon.And August don't have the same durability as a Dragon and he lacks their skin.
You can't say Belserion's era is outdated when most strong characrers are from that era.
Zeref,Acnologia,Irene,Dragons,Anna and 5 DS.
Gildarts haven't shown any feat or recieved a comment from his allies that his M.P. is something exceptional.
GOI already knew about Serena and they were allies at one point of time so they will not be shocked by Base Serena.They had investigated about the Spriggans so they didn't express shock or sweated even after seeing August.
That was pre time skip.Team Natsu had already said in Caracole island that they have never witnessed this amount of magic power before on seeing Brandish.
Meaning no M.P. in pre-timeskip is as large as Brandish's.
Team Natsu except Natsu said they have never witnessed this amount of magic power before on seeing Brandish because they never see Gildarts magic power while Natsu, yes.
Team Natsu except Natsu said they have never witnessed this amount of magic power before on seeing Brandish because they never see Gildarts magic power while Natsu, yes.
The way Natsu was shocked on seeing her,it can be explained she was stronger than anyone pre-time skip.Gildarts had released his magic pressure while Brandish had done it in her casual state only.
You can argue that currently Gildarts is stronger which can be accepted.
Especially,in Author's note Hiro himself mentioned Spriggans are the strongest characters which means they are stronger than any character before time-skip.
Are you saying Natsu's MP in FDKM or Base below any Spriggans?
Yes i believe that his M.P. is below in those states than any Spriggan.Well your post is quite offensive in that respect.
And regarding DF he has to show feats.
And why is Natsu in a thread of Gildarts?
Author himself has mentioned that Spriggans are the strongest i.e. their M.P. is more than any others in one volume afternote.So will you accuse him also of bias?
And yes Zeref too has to show a feat of defeating a Dragon.
No reread my post I didn't say that at all. Ok if u believe that then DF natsu gets no dif by hax spriggans then. I brought up natsu because I was using an analogy that destroy ur logic. Authors at time has proven to contradict their work. Yes I believe that the sprrigans are the strongest group. By that doesn't mean FT members can't compete to beat them. Laxus is the greatest example of all same with gildartz (although god Serena was a histora)
Organ bust is overrated, its only ever been used as a surprise attack, same as Ice Lock. And even if she could do it mid battle Gildarts would cube her first because he's faster.
In general, Brandish's organ bust is extremely overrated by the community. Only words have "claimed" that she was capable of doing so.
But when the time came for her to perform, she admitted that her magic was ineffective on somebody like Neinhart. To make matters worse, she was surprised to witness Natsu's true power when he utterly wrecked Enhanced Neinhart with 2 casual flaming fists.
That destroyed and reduced Brandish's credibility to shambles because she expressed inferiority against 2 casual opponents.
She may have the ability to mass manipulate attacks and maybe even minor tumors of weak characters or characters in base form... (And this is being lenient)
But to say that she can just organ bust and oneshot opponents on her level is just absurd.
If she could have done that, the Spriggans wouldn't have been completely wiped out by now.
There are distinguishable ranks among the Spriggans, and clearly, Brandish doesn't come out on top or near the top, for that matter.
At least half of the Spriggans outclass Brandish in terms of performance and feats.
No reread my post I didn't say that at all. Ok if u believe that then DF natsu gets no dif by hax spriggans then. I brought up natsu because I was using an analogy that destroy ur logic. Authors at time has proven to contradict their work. Yes I believe that the sprrigans are the strongest group. By that doesn't mean FT members can't compete to beat them. Laxus is the greatest example of all same with gildartz (although god Serena was a histora)
In general, Brandish's organ bust is extremely overrated by the community. Only words have "claimed" that she was capable of doing so.
But when the time came for her to perform, she admitted that her magic was ineffective on somebody like Neinhart. To make matters worse, she was surprised to witness Natsu's true power when he utterly wrecked Enhanced Neinhart with 2 casual flaming fists.
That destroyed and reduced Brandish's credibility to shambles because she expressed inferiority against 2 casual opponents.
She may have the ability to mass manipulate attacks and maybe even minor tumors of weak characters or characters in base form... (And this is being lenient)
But to say that she can just organ bust and oneshot opponents on her level is just absurd.
If she could have done that, the Spriggans wouldn't have been completely wiped out by now.
There are distinguishable ranks among the Spriggans, and clearly, Brandish doesn't come out on top or near the top, for that matter.
At least half of the Spriggans outclass Brandish in terms of performance and feats.
Bro it's call PIS we know she isn't use that feat becuase the good guys are protected by plot plus brandish wasn't entire on alavlez side she was really bipolar between the 2 sides so he wasn't really fighting against ishgar (which it was the smart thing to do becuase she would have been humiliated by nakama natsu and plotforce Lucy)
Bro it's call PIS we know she isn't use that feat becuase the good guys are protected by plot plus brandish wasn't entire on alavlez side she was really bipolar between the 2 sides so he wasn't really fighting against ishgar (which it was the smart thing to do becuase she would have been humiliated by nakama natsu and plotforce Lucy)
It's PiS if the good guys are saved by her weak performance. In other words, they benefit from her being useless.
That wasn't the case with Enhanced Neinhart, who was the good guys' enemy.
Brandish was cut by Neinhart's fodder winds and even stated that her magic had no effect on the dude. Natsu had to save Brandish by two-shotting Neinhart..
If anything, that's the opposite of PiS.
Brandish was supposed to be the superior Spriggan, but Natsu proved her wrong when he easily fodderized Neinhart.
If Brandish was caught off guard by Neinhart and surprised by Base Natsu's power, then it's clear that her organ busting is not working on everybody here.
I do understand that Brandish was in the middle of the entire war, but the fact is that she has not proven to be all that powerful. Her feats clearly suggest otherwise, regardless of the amount of hype she's been given since the beginning of the arc.
And I can't give her the benefit of the doubt, because that would be unfair to the characters who have produced decent or above-average feats.
I think a lot of people misunderstand what having high MP really means. Because MP is the amount of "mana" they have. It has nothing to do with their abilities. The Spriggans have been shown to have huge MP, as stated by Hiro himself. And tbh, one could argue that Neinhart has the most MP(excluding August and Irene) in the Spriggan 12. I mean, he has enough magic power to summon 3 Spriggan Historias. Which is very impressive. Does this mean he's strong? No, I really doubt that's the case. But he has a lot of MP. And if more to that we enchant this Neinhart, his mp will be even bigger. Does this make him strong? No. Base Natsu managed to one shot him. But Neinhart definetly has more MP than base Natsu. It's just that his physicals are super weak.
Gildarts definetly posesses a ton of MP, but I still think it's comparable to say, God Serena. And Neinhart, especially enchanted, should have more than that.
From the very start, Neinhart was portrayed as being weak, but strong in MP. So I still think Brandish's magic would affect Gildarts.
The only thing I'm not sure of, is if Brandish can do that casually to any person. As Dimaria stated, Brandish could enlarge Natsu's organs. But she already did know the location of his organs, considering she made the tumor smaller. And when Dimaria stated how Brandish can defeat Lucy, she said that Brandish could "shrink her and crush beneath her feet". Which gives me the feeling that Brandish should know the location of sade organs beforehand.
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Also, about the thread: Neinhart: Gildarts takes this pretty easy. No more needs to be said. Brandish: Either she busts his organs with her hax, either he beats her mid dif (if she can't bust his organs without knowing their location) Ajeel: Gildarts defeats him pretty easy, most likely with one serious hit. Jacob: Jacob claps. Bloodman: I doubt Bloodman can do much, but Gildarts can't hurt him as well. Bloodman is pretty hax, considering his intangibility. Could someone remind me if there is a way to bypass it without using curses? For now Bloodman wins though...
Wahl: Gildarts takes this pretty easy. I doubt it would be a one shot though. Dimaria: *clicks her teeth together*
Invel: His freeze ability is pretty hax, but I think Gildarts could bypass it. Maybe.... Other than that, Invel is pretty much a glass cannon as seen in his battle against Gray. God Serena: Gildarts high diff. Larcade: While Gildarts may be able to beat Larcade high diff(considering that Larcade's physicals are very impressive, especially against physical attacks. Magical/energy attacks are another story), I think Gildarts looses to Pleasure. I mean, it's kidna his weakness/gag. This is Gildarts after all Irene: That's where Gildarts stops. A Dragon's strength/durability is well known to be hax throughout the verse. The fact that Erza and Wendy managed to hurt Irene was because she couldn't make herself to truly fight her daughter (or PIS, call it whatever you want). But if Irene is serious, Gildarts can't beat her. She is on another level, with only August slightly surpassing her. August: Same as with Irene. He mid diffs Gildarts.
Bloodman: I doubt Bloodman can do much, but Gildarts can't hurt him as well. Bloodman is pretty hax, considering his intangibility. Could someone remind me if there is a way to bypass it without using curses? For now Bloodman wins though...
It's tough to predict how Bradman's MBP body would interact with Crash magic, but I think it would effect it. We've seen him crash other intangible things before, like Natsu's fire and Historia God Serena's breath attack. This being said, there is the wildcard in the form of the Absorption Curse, which Bradman could theoretically use to bypass a few Crash attacks. Tbh Bradman is a pretty bad match up for Gildarts, he's only shown one spell that doesn't incorporate CQC, so he only really has one attack that we can say would definitely work on Bradman, and even then, the Absorption Curse makes that tough to gauge. On top of this, Bradman's MBP's would continually weaken Gildarts the longer the fight goes on, and there's also the Sensation Curse and Tenchi Kamei to factor in.
In short, Bradman vs Gildarts is really hard to call, since it's raw power vs raw hax.
It's tough to predict how Bradman's MBP body would interact with Crash magic, but I think it would effect it. We've seen him crash other intangible things before, like Natsu's fire and Historia God Serena's breath attack. This being said, there is the wildcard in the form of the Absorption Curse, which Bradman could theoretically use to bypass a few Crash attacks. Tbh Bradman is a pretty bad match up for Gildarts, he's only shown one spell that doesn't incorporate CQC, so he only really has one attack that we can say would definitely work on Bradman, and even then, the Absorption Curse makes that tough to gauge. On top of this, Bradman's MBP's would continually weaken Gildarts the longer the fight goes on, and there's also the Sensation Curse and Tenchi Kamei to factor in.
In short, Bradman vs Gildarts is really hard to call, since it's raw power vs raw hax.
It's tough to predict how Bradman's MBP body would interact with Crash magic, but I think it would effect it. We've seen him crash other intangible things before, like Natsu's fire and Historia God Serena's breath attack. This being said, there is the wildcard in the form of the Absorption Curse, which Bradman could theoretically use to bypass a few Crash attacks. Tbh Bradman is a pretty bad match up for Gildarts, he's only shown one spell that doesn't incorporate CQC, so he only really has one attack that we can say would definitely work on Bradman, and even then, the Absorption Curse makes that tough to gauge. On top of this, Bradman's MBP's would continually weaken Gildarts the longer the fight goes on, and there's also the Sensation Curse and Tenchi Kamei to factor in.
In short, Bradman vs Gildarts is really hard to call, since it's raw power vs raw hax.
Bradman still has to physically throw out his arms to make contact with Gildarts spell to absorb it though. If Gildarts were to do what he did to August and blitz behind him and then Crash him, Bradman shouldnt be able to absorb anything
It's PiS if the good guys are saved by her weak performance. In other words, they benefit from her being useless.
That wasn't the case with Enhanced Neinhart, who was the good guys' enemy.
Brandish was cut by Neinhart's fodder winds and even stated that her magic had no effect on the dude. Natsu had to save Brandish by two-shotting Neinhart..
If anything, that's the opposite of PiS.
Brandish was supposed to be the superior Spriggan, but Natsu proved her wrong when he easily fodderized Neinhart.
If Brandish was caught off guard by Neinhart and surprised by Base Natsu's power, then it's clear that her organ busting is not working on everybody here.
I do understand that Brandish was in the middle of the entire war, but the fact is that she has not proven to be all that powerful. Her feats clearly suggest otherwise, regardless of the amount of hype she's been given since the beginning of the arc.
And I can't give her the benefit of the doubt, because that would be unfair to the characters who have produced decent or above-average feats.
but that thing she wasn't serious she was intending to lose to Lucy and when she encounter team natsu at the island she wasn't intending to kill them she ask them to leave in fact she even said she doesn't like fighting. Dimaria knew she could solo both natsu and Lucy if she want to. The nienhart situation was to show brandish that ishgar side isn't as weak as she thought (maybe base of MP) plus her magic not working on neinhart would be the exact same situation with some1 like dimaria too. Natsu was getting cut to. she pretty much underestimated them plus she use feats on natsu and natsu was on the floor. Bottom line is brandish wasn't serious the whole entire time during this arc
Bradman still has to physically throw out his arms to make contact with Gildarts spell to absorb it though. If Gildarts were to do what he did to August and blitz behind him and then Crash him, Bradman shouldnt be able to absorb anything
Probably, but unlike those guys Bradman has to wait and react to a spell and then absorb it, Gildarts gets to make the first move. The other guys if smart, would use their hax right off the bat, as should Gildarts, no blitzing, just cubing them before they kill him.
Probably, but unlike those guys Bradman has to wait and react to a spell and then absorb it, Gildarts gets to make the first move. The other guys if smart, would use their hax right off the bat, as should Gildarts, no blitzing, just cubing them before they kill him.
As for Jacob if they were able to stop him by happy iinterupting him then gildartz would easily blitzes him and I think it's possible for dimaria and brandish
but that thing she wasn't serious she was intending to lose to Lucy and when she encounter team natsu at the island she wasn't intending to kill them she ask them to leave in fact she even said she doesn't like fighting. Dimaria knew she could solo both natsu and Lucy if she want to. The nienhart situation was to show brandish that ishgar side isn't as weak as she thought (maybe base of MP) plus her magic not working on neinhart would be the exact same situation with some1 like dimaria too. Natsu was getting cut to. she pretty much underestimated them plus she use feats on natsu and natsu was on the floor. Bottom line is brandish wasn't serious the whole entire time during this arc
Well, I never actually thought she lost to Lucy. She went fairly easy on Lucy and still had the upper hand. But Lucy isn't even on the level of a high-ranking Spriggan anyways.
I doubt Brandish could have killed Team Natsu on Caracol Island though. Gray, Natsu, and Erza were all casual on the island. If those 3 were at their full-power, Brandish would have lost almost immediately.
That was supposed to be a spy/infiltration mission. Gray, Natsu, and Erza had no intention of starting a war with Alvarez around that time, which is why they did little to stop Brandish. If they wanted to, they could defeat Brandish right then and there.
I agree Natsu was cut, but the difference was that he proceeded to two-shot Neinhart without feeling much pain. And Brandish would lose the moment Natsu entered FDKM.
I do understand that Brandish wasn't serious the entire arc, but I'm not going to extrapolate her feats because of that. She may not have had any intention to fight, but she sure hasn't shown anything on the caliber of a high-tiered mage.
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