Round of 16 Natsu vs Larcade

Which Dragneel wins?

  • Natsu

    Votes: 42 54.5%
  • Larcade

    Votes: 35 45.5%

  • Total voters
    77
  • Poll closed .
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Tirl

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In 1vs1 battle I posted characteristics of fighters in previous T, but for Lacarde there is no reason for this. Lacarde wins with 3 diff (description in sign). His magic works even on Irene, Zeref and Gildarts. There is no way for Natsu to do anything. RIP

Lacade - win.
 

Seven777

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He wasn't smiling, he was seething, and he only went into DF because he thought Zeref had killed Mavis. Also, Wendy doesn't need outside stimuli. She, Sting, and Rogue are the only ones that can enter DF at will.

And Natsu can use both. They're not mutually exclusive. Like mystique Gohan going super saiyan.
......Mystic Gohan cant go super saiyan
 

Belserion

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At first I thought Natsu by default. But now really thinking about it this is a 1 vs 1 with no PoF asspulls to come out of nowhere. So from the power they have available to them, Larcade takes this. Not easily, but ultimately.
 

Axiomus

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This is the classic power vs hax, isn't it? It's interesting to note that we've seen a similar situation of power overcoming a hax with God Serena overpowered Hyperion's vampire magic by invoking his Dragon Slaying magic. I think it's pretty safe to say that the power difference between DF Natsu and Larcade is greater than the power difference between God Serena and Hyperion.
Larcade's magic worked on Natsu, but it isn't immediately incapacitating. Both Sting and Natsu were able to resist it's effects, and Larcade was relying on Zeref to strike Natsu down. Personally, I think that Zeref trapping Natsu in his black magic was a lot more debilitating to Natsu than simply becoming sleepy by the effects of Larcade's magic. Natsu was able to still trigger dragon force whilst trapped by Zeref's magic. If Natsu can trigger dragon force under those conditions, I don't really think it's that far fetched to say that he can trigger dragon force under Larcade's influence.
It's probably worth mentioning that I don't think dragon force is necessary to defeat Larcade. Any attack on the level of WSD rough silk can achieve this, and dragon force is a bit overkill for this. Dragon Force has the greatest chance of allowing Natsu to break free from Larcade's magic though. Again, using a similar concept to God Serena's increase in power overcoming Hyperion's magic. From there, he would only need to throw demolition fist.
 
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Pheromone

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Larcade wins this one, thanks to hax. RIP would be pulled before Natsu can chance any one of his vaporizing nukes, and we know how effective RIP was on an energetic Natsu from a severely weakened Larcade.

Personally, I think that Zeref trapping Natsu in his black magic was a lot more debilitating to Natsu than simply becoming sleepy and Natsu was able to still trigger dragon force.
I disagree. Natsu was only physically restrained by Zeref's black magic, mentally he was perfectly as sound as he could be, as he gave his normal Natsu-esque speech. I read that moment as Natsu both concentrating mentally and pushing himself physically as hard as he could to trigger Dragon Force to overpower the black magic's tightening hold.

Something I can't see him doing under Larcade's RIP, given how his mental faculties would be debilitated, effectively hindering his ability to concentrate.
 

Axiomus

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I disagree. Natsu was only physically restrained by Zeref's black magic, mentally he was perfectly as sound as he could be, as he gave his normal Natsu-esque speech. I read that moment as Natsu both concentrating mentally and pushing himself physically as hard as he could to trigger Dragon Force to overpower the black magic's tightening hold.

Something I can't see him doing under Larcade's RIP, given how his mental faculties would be debilitated, effectively hindering his ability to concentrate.
Natsu was merely sleepy under Larcade's magic, but he could still think pretty clearly. He has enough mental faculties to recognize that Larcade called Zeref his father, and he was aware enough to know that he had to keep himself together to fight Zeref. Besides, it shouldn't take that much concentration for Natsu to decide to use dragon force. Sting and Rogue were both under the effects of Larcade's RIP, and they formulated a strategy of letting Sting fall into the shadows.
 

Pheromone

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Natsu was merely sleepy under Larcade's magic, but he could still think pretty clearly. He has enough mental faculties to recognize that Larcade called Zeref his father, and he was aware enough to know that he had to keep himself together to fight Zeref. Besides, it shouldn't take that much concentration for Natsu to decide to use dragon force. Sting and Rogue were both under the effects of Larcade's RIP, and they formulated a strategy of letting Sting fall into the shadows.
I don't believe registering one word and/or a giving/receiving straightforward tactical directives can compare with inducing one of the strongest physical transformations that the human body can undergo with Dragon Slayer magic, one that adopts the strength and anatomical characteristics of a dragon.

I simply see the latter requiring much, much more mental concentration to pull off.

Veins pop out in this manga whenever characters are physically pushing their bodies as hard as they can. Natsu was able to think perfectly fine, as he digested the entirety of Zeref's real plan, and reasoned against it.
 
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Axiomus

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I don't believe registering one word and/or a giving/receiving straightforward tactical directives can compare with inducing the strongest physical transformation that the human body can undergo with Dragon Slayer magic, one that adopts the strength and anatomical characteristics of a dragon.
You make it sound like Natsu needs to be a genius to fire off dragon force. Sting can maintain his WSD form whilst under the effects of Larcade's magic. You don't need absolute mental concentration to maintain dragon force. We've seen Natsu maintain his dragon force even when he gets hit or overpowered by attacks, which would break his concentration all the same.
 
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**Silver**

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You make it sound like Natsu needs to be a genius to fire off dragon force. Sting can maintain his WSD form whilst under the effects of Larcade's magic.
Natsu already defeated Dimaria i think this is enough proof that Larcade has zero change win this fight...

Dimaria=Larcade
 

Kiki

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Natsu already defeated Dimaria i think this is enough proof that Larcade has zero change win this fight...

Dimaria=Larcade
It was END!Natsu. Natsu doesnt have END power in this tourney.
 

Arjuna

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Let us also not forget DF Natsu>END who is stronger than Larcade according to Zeref.Larcade is just a prototype for creating END.
 

Axiomus

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Dragon Force is greater than the END powers we've seen so far though.
Add to that Larcade is even below END when Zeref revealed he is just a prototype in reviving END/Natsu.
 

Pheromone

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You make it sound like Natsu needs to be a genius to fire off dragon force
Nope. All I see is Larcade's magic being great enough of an inhibiter to prevent mental concentration in inducing one of the most strenuous transformations in the series.

If it's really that hard for you to buy in spite of what's been said in this thread, we can agree to disagree.

Sting can maintain his WSD form whilst under the effects of Larcade's magic.
Which didn't do him any good, as he was rendered immobile in the fight, until he used the hax-breaker dynamic of his magic to slip momentarily right through Larcade's magic and oneshot him.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
You don't need absolute mental concentration to maintain dragon force. We've seen Natsu maintain his dragon force even when he gets hit or overpowered by attacks, which would break his concentration all the same.
There's getting hit, which at the very worst only startles the mind, and then there's a continuous stream of immobilizing drowsiness.

We weren't even talking about maintaining Dragon Force, anyway. We were talking about the transformation.
 

Axiomus

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Nope. All I see is Larcade's magic being great enough of an inhibiter to prevent mental concentration in inducing one of the most strenuous transformations in the series.

If it's really that hard for you to buy in spite of what's been said in this thread, we can agree to disagree.

Which didn't do him any good, as he was rendered immobile in the fight, until he used the hax-breaker dynamic of his magic to slip momentarily right through Larcade's magic and oneshot him.
Since when has dragon force ever been mentally taxing though? It's taxing physically in that it takes up a lot of magic power to sustain. I find it hard to believe that being sleepy is a greater inhibitor than say getting beaten around by Zero. I would find it much harder to concentrate if someone was hitting me than if I was merely sleepy. It wasn't just a one off hit either, Zero landed multiple attacks against him in quick succession.
Sting's WSD isn't on the same level as Natsu's dragon force. My main point was that Sting had no problem maintaining the form, meaning that it probably didn't mentally tax him that much - if at all.

We weren't even talking about maintaining Dragon Force, anyway. We were talking about the transformation.
You lost me here. Dragon Force is what Natsu used against Zeref. What transformation are we talking about?
 

Pheromone

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I find it hard to believe that being sleepy is a greater inhibitor than say getting beaten around by Zero. . Natsu maintained dragon force just fine through Zero beating him up. I would find it much harder to concentrate if someone was hitting me than if I was merely sleepy. It wasn't just a one off hit either, Zero landed multiple attacks against him in quick succession.
There's getting hit, which at the very worst only startles the mind, and then there's a continuous stream of immobilizing drowsiness.

We weren't even talking about maintaining Dragon Force, anyway. We were talking about the transformation.
Natsu's forever been a tank who could withstand punches and kicks on end, and with Dragon Force he's only moreso. Punches and kicks aren't going to do much to his concentration, of all people.

Already been said earlier in this thread that Natsu's not one to resist the mind's failings anywhere nearly as well as he can tank bodily hit well, something which I agree with.

Sting's WSD isn't on the same level as Natsu's dragon force. The power difference between Natsu's dragon force and Larcade is way larger. My main point was that Sting had no problem maintaining the form, meaning that it probably didn't mentally tax him that much - if at all.
We're not talking about power levels at all here, hax magic is what's being discussed.

WSD Sting held on only long enough for Rogue to tell him what to do before he used his hax-breaker to slip through Larcade's hax.

An interval stretching at what, 10 seconds at they very, very most and of which WSD Sting was mentally taxed enough to be rendered completely immobile against Larcade. Which would easily be the scenario here with Natsu.

You lost me here. Dragon Force is what Natsu used against Zeref. What transformation are we talking about?
:notsure

You're the one who brought up the possibility of Natsu transforming into Dragon Force in this matchup.

I'm telling you that Larcade's magic won't let that transformation happen at all to begin with, let alone this sudden talk of yours about Natsu being able to maintain it.
 
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Axiomus

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Natsu's forever been a tank who could withstand punches and kicks on end, and with Dragon Force he's only moreso. Punches and kicks aren't going to do much to his concentration, of all people.

Already been said earlier in this thread that Natsu's not one to resist the mind's failings anywhere nearly as well as he can tank bodily hit well, something which I agree with.

We're not talking about power levels at all here, hax magic is what's being discussed.

WSD Sting held on only long enough for Rogue to tell him what to do. An interval stretching at what, 10 seconds at they very, very most and of which WSD Sting was mentally taxed enough to be rendered completely immobile against Larcade.



:notsure

You're the one who brought up the possibility of Natsu transforming into Dragon Force.

I'm telling you that Larcade's magic won't let that transformation happen at all to begin with, let alone this sudden talk of yours about Natsu being able to maintain it.
Even if Natsu has good durability, getting hit affects your concentration. Especially when you're getting kicked around on the floor like that. If he could concentrate, he would be trying to dodge or blocking. The bottom line is that Natsu was clearly in worse shape fighting Zero, than he was against Larcade. If he can push past the pain of getting kicked around or blasted by magic, he can probably push past whatever sleepiness he's feeling from Larcade.

No hax should be beyond any limits. We've seen multiple times that a sufficiently powerful opponent can become immune to the effects of a certain hax. Examples include: END vs Age Seal, Neinhart vs Mass manipulation, Wall vs Macro, God Serena vs Vampire. WSD Sting simply wasn't at the level where he could overpower Larcade's magic. DF Natsu is at the level where he could erase Zeref's body, so the gap between him and Larcade is arguably larger than the gap between God Serena and Hyperion. Also, Sting was not completely immobile against Larcade. He was drowsy, but he could still move his hands around. Maybe he wouldn't be doing any acrobatics, but I doubt he wouldn't be able to walk or anything.

You mean the dragonized form? Dragon Force is the dragonized form. If you can maintain Dragon Force, you can maintain the transformation. If Sting can maintain his WSD form under RIP, why wouldn't Natsu be able to enter his DF under the same conditions? Hold on. Are you trying to imply it would take greater mental focus to enter dragon force than to maintain it? Why?
 

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In a real fight, natsu takes this. In this forum tournament? Natsu loses this round.

Too many people hate natsu for them to declare him the winner. Natsu hate is too strong on here
 

Pheromone

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Even if Natsu has good durability, getting hit affects your concentration. Especially when you're getting kicked around on the floor like that. If he could concentrate, he would be trying to dodge or blocking. The bottom line is that Natsu was clearly in worse shape fighting Zero, than he was against Larcade. If he can push past the pain of getting kicked around or blasted by magic, he can probably push past whatever sleepiness he's feeling from Larcade.
Taking hits does indeed break bursts of concentration at infinitesimal moments. Larcade's RIP is a steady stream of constant drowsiness, which inherently taxes the mind at completely different level, forcing a part the mind try to fend off the constant drowsiness that probably only getting worse, and another to continue fighting. This is nothing like pain, which while can have its sustained impact on the mind for extremely grievous injuries, I'd argue Natsu's acclimated enough to pain to mentally withstand it in battle without letting it hamper his concentration, so long as the rest of his body doesn't fail him.

I'm just repeating myself at this point. I, like quite a few other people here, don't see Natsu as strong-willed enough to be able maintain sufficient concentration in that sort of situation to induce Dragon Force transformation, let alone maintain it.

No hax should be beyond any limits. We've seen multiple times that a sufficiently powerful opponent can become immune to the effects of certain hax. Examples include: END vs. Age Seal, Neinhart vs. Mass manipulation, Wall vs Macro, God Serena vs Hyperion. WSD Sting simply wasn't at the level where he could overpower Larcade's magic. DF Natsu is at the level where he could erase Zeref's body though. The gap between him and Larcade is arguably larger than the gap between God Serena and Hyperion, for example.
Yet Zeref stated that Larcade's magic was suited to match up against Acno. This is an assertion that relates directly to the character at hand, let alone inferring any sort of speculation as to what you may feel about DF Natsu being arguably strong enough to somehow turn off Larcade's hax.

Let's keep in mind that Larcade's Pleasure had an impact on both Zeref and Irene, the former obviously much stronger and the latter very arguably so. Hax magic is hax magic.

Larcade's magic was engineered to take down opponents much stronger than he was, and his magic was shown to be effective on stronger individuals.

You mean the dragonized form? Dragon Force is the dragonized form. If you can maintain Dragon Force, you can maintain the transformation.
Human -> Dragon Force is what's being discussed here. One of the most strenuous transformations in the series that alters your body.
 

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If Larcade really passes this round,i wonder how many people will make the same argument about Larcade's R.I.P. if he faces Gildarts or Gray.
 
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