Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[xAsum0x]

Ppl want adventure battle shonen but don't realize they prob get cancelled after 10+ chaps a la Demons Plan, Red Sprite.

 

[Divinenega]

Ppl want adventure battle shonen but don't realize they prob get cancelled after 10+ chaps a la Demons Plan, Red Sprite.

In fairness neither of those was well...good

 

[xAsum0x]

Neither was Black Clover, it's just a crapshoot

 

[savethecat]

Ppl want adventure battle shonen but don't realize they prob get cancelled after 10+ chaps a la Demons Plan, Red Sprite.

Well obviously we want them to be good too. Just because we want Adventure Battle Shonen doesn't mean we'll accept whatever is thrown at us

 

[Leoat12]

Well obviously we want them to be good too. Just because we want Adventure Battle Shonen doesn't mean we'll accept whatever is thrown at us

I wonder about that...
*cof**cof* Black Clover *cof**cof*

 

[WyldViolet]

Lol based on what information?

As i said in my post.
Tabata's clear love of Berserk and the progression of Griffith in all his beautiful, overpowered, ambition makes the inspiration between the two apparent. .
Not a hard stretch to make story wise.
Reading comprehension and reading a lot of manga help.

 

[savethecat]

I wonder about that...
*cof**cof* Black Clover *cof**cof*

I think there's a lot of fun to be had in Black Clover.

Despite all the hate it gets I would say it's a far better work then Red Sprite and Demons Plan. Even if you think it's at the same level of writing BC has far better art and paneling

 

[Sir Isley]

As i said in my post.
Tabata's clear love of Berserk and the progression of Griffith in all his beautiful, overpowered, ambition makes the inspiration between the two apparent. .
Not a hard stretch to make story wise.
Reading comprehension and reading a lot of manga help.

I only see the similar looks and nothing else. Will has yet to display or do anything scrub-ish like pre-eclipse Giffith.

I think there's a lot of fun to be had in Black Clover.

Despite all the hate it gets I would say it's a far better work then Red Sprite and Demons Plan. If if you think it's at the same level of writing BC has far better art and paneling

That is exactly why I read it. If I want a tad more serious there's MHA. If I want extra serious, I got TG: re and Berserk(to re-read).

 

[vampire killer]

https://www.animenewsnetwork.cc/new...1-on-u.s-monthly-bookscan-august-list/.120852
No one is talking about the big news. BHA is dominating the west.

 

[WyldViolet]

I only see the similar looks and nothing else. Will has yet to display or do anything scrub-ish like pre-eclipse Giffith.



That is exactly why I read it. If I want a tad more serious there's MHA. If I want extra serious, I got TG: re and Berserk(to re-read).

No, Yuno is going to become the Griffith like character.

 

[iceemperor]

Ppl want adventure battle shonen but don't realize they prob get cancelled after 10+ chaps a la Demons Plan, Red Sprite.

Those were most probably purposefully cancelled in 10 weeks to help the mangaka grow. Demon's Plan is Okamoto's first serialization so giving him experience actually having a serialization was also one reason. One of Oda's first editors said that they purposefully raise the bar on rookies and cancel them in around 10 weeks so that they grow from the experience and also listen to the readers and the editors. He said that newcomers, especially rookies with promise run full speed and only write what they want and don't listen to their editors. They actually raised the hurdle even further with Oda when he debuted, who would basically fight with his editor on changes to be made at the name stage. The editor would suggest changes and Oda would discard them and do as he originally wanted. One Piece was a hit from the beginning though so cancellation was out of the question and the editor mentions that a reason One Piece flows so well is because Oda has had these ideas since well before serialization. If you look into Jump's history, a lot of the mega hit series are by mangaka that have had one previous failure. Oda, Kishimoto are special cases where their first serialization was a mega hit.

 

[Newkerzy]

You're forgetting Toriyama, I think. Dr. Slump was a big hit in Japan, but DB eclipsed it, and cemented itself as a legend.

 

[Sir Isley]

No, Yuno is going to become the Griffith like character.

I definitely don't see the relation between the two.

 

[savethecat]

Those were most probably purposefully cancelled in 10 weeks to help the mangaka grow. Demon's Plan is Okamoto's first serialization so giving him experience actually having a serialization was also one reason. One of Oda's first editors said that they purposefully raise the bar on rookies and cancel them in around 10 weeks so that they grow from the experience and also listen to the readers and the editors. He said that newcomers, especially rookies with promise run full speed and only write what they want and don't listen to their editors. They actually raised the hurdle even further with Oda when he debuted, who would basically fight with his editor on changes to be made at the name stage. The editor would suggest changes and Oda would discard them and do as he originally wanted. One Piece was a hit from the beginning though so cancellation was out of the question and the editor mentions that a reason One Piece flows so well is because Oda has had these ideas since well before serialization. If you look into Jump's history, a lot of the mega hit series are by mangaka that have had one previous failure. Oda, Kishimoto are special cases where their first serialization was a mega hit.

I would say it's BS that they sign rookies with the intention of cancelling them in 10 weeks.
I'm sure editors know that all new series are more likely to fail than succeed.
But they sign every series with the hope that it'll be the next breakout series.
If Demon's Plan came out and it was an immediate huge hit, it definitely wouldn't have been axed

 

[Leoat12]

Those were most probably purposefully cancelled in 10 weeks to help the mangaka grow. Demon's Plan is Okamoto's first serialization so giving him experience actually having a serialization was also one reason. One of Oda's first editors said that they purposefully raise the bar on rookies and cancel them in around 10 weeks so that they grow from the experience and also listen to the readers and the editors. He said that newcomers, especially rookies with promise run full speed and only write what they want and don't listen to their editors. They actually raised the hurdle even further with Oda when he debuted, who would basically fight with his editor on changes to be made at the name stage. The editor would suggest changes and Oda would discard them and do as he originally wanted. One Piece was a hit from the beginning though so cancellation was out of the question and the editor mentions that a reason One Piece flows so well is because Oda has had these ideas since well before serialization. If you look into Jump's history, a lot of the mega hit series are by mangaka that have had one previous failure. Oda, Kishimoto are special cases where their first serialization was a mega hit.

I don't know what you actually tried to say with this comment, but for me it was basically saying that editors are terribly wrong with this policy? The two biggest series of our generation were made by rookies who "didn't know what they were doing and needed help of editors" <- Editors point of view.
Bakuman has never been more true in this regard, it also covered this situation where Mashiro and Takagi listened to the editor and really suffered because of that. I'm not saying that authors, principally rookies, don't need editors' help, but if they try to excessively order the author around, they will miss genius authors like Oda and Kishimoto. Oda IS a genius and it seems like they didn't see him that way because they tried to order him around and conflicts arose. What if Oda listened to the editors? One Piece would have the same success?
I don't like this approach, basically they are canceling authors in 10 chapters to come to them and say "See? I told you to listen to me." and control them tight in the next series. It doesn't seem to me a healthy approach. It cuts potentially beautiful flowers by the root. (Man, that was poetic. xD)

 

[TyVip]

Oda did listen to the editor for the first chapter though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

 

[Leoat12]

Oda did listen to the editor for the first chapter though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

Do you think the first chapter was bad? XD

 

[Heiji]

Black Clover 2nd novel will be out 04/10.

 

[iceemperor]

I don't know what you actually tried to say with this comment, but for me it was basically saying that editors are terribly wrong with this policy? The two biggest series of our generation were made by rookies who "didn't know what they were doing and needed help of editors" <- Editors point of view.
Bakuman has never been more true in this regard, it also covered this situation where Mashiro and Takagi listened to the editor and really suffered because of that. I'm not saying that authors, principally rookies, don't need editors' help, but if they try to excessively order the author around, they will miss genius authors like Oda and Kishimoto. Oda IS a genius and it seems like they didn't see him that way because they tried to order him around and conflicts arose. What if Oda listened to the editors? One Piece would have the same success?
I don't like this approach, basically they are canceling authors in 10 chapters to come to them and say "See? I told you to listen to me." and control them tight in the next series. It doesn't seem to me a healthy approach. It cuts potentially beautiful flowers by the root. (Man, that was poetic. xD)

Its the opposite. They viewed Oda as the real thing and someone with huge potential from the beginning and purposefully raised his OK line. Here's his editor Kushima who was with him before he started One Piece:

He purposefully rejected drafts that may have been okayed if it was any other rookie. I miss spoke but Kushima states that there was a trend of promising rookies being cancelled in 10 weeks and his reason for that is that they would have total confidence in themselves since they were told or saw themselves as having promise and would do as they liked and would not listen to their editors and more often created series that were difficult for the readers to immerse themselves or relate with. Due to this, they would be unable to gain popularity and would quickly end. They would then learn from this and would succeed in the next serialization. Oda didn't want to fail the first time around had already decided that he would write a manga about "pirates and magic users and ninja" and the like. Kushima says that Oda was unsure if he could stand up again if his series was cancelled in 10 weeks. So he worked with his editor to make his first series a hit. This is why they raised the hurdle bar for him. During their meetings, it looked like they were fighting because Oda was very stubborn and in his own words "overconfident" and only changed the parts that he felt needed to be changed after the editor listed all the changes that needed to be made. He would not redo any parts of the story he had already decided that he will definitely not change. Kushima says that the parts he did change came out much better than he expected.
Here's another excerpt about the relationship between Oda and Kushima:

Oda himself says that editors go through lots of mangaka's works during the year and those experiences help them develop their own distinct "theories". They would see the many mistakes that many rookies make and would advise newcomers about them so that they would not make the same mistakes.

 

[Leoat12]

Now you clarified much more what you wanted to say, now I agree 100%. Now it sounds like the editors don`t let the rookies to die in the hands of the readers (we`re monsters. xD) just to control them afterward. XD
It is very rare to see a series be canceled in 10 weeks though, only the most terrible ones can do this.