Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Leoat12]

The latter sounds more like a double-edged sword to me. While it's true that assigning new editors to veterans is a good way to train up the newbies, but the opposite effect could also happen when the newer editors put in suggestions that end up derailing the story without any constructive reason to back his suggestion up.

This may happen if you suppose that a veteran mangaka accepts everything that a newbie say to him which is unlikely, isn't it the reason that the put new editors with veteran mangakas? Editors don't seem to impose things, it is an exchange of ideas and when the editor see that the mangaka's idea is clearly better he has to abide by it. That's when they learn.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 12, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 12, 2017 ---

I never believed in those conspiracies, they have a poll directly with the readers and there is no reason to keep a series that they clearly say that the readers don't like.

 

[Doughboy]

Thanks for the info, the excerpts about the rankings was interesting the most, basically been a hot topic for whatever reason over the last two ToCs cause of MHA's ranking. Whoever said the covers were decided months before, I think ChocoBar, was right. Does it really take that long to make a mag cover? I mean the base picture just get photoshopped with all the logos and ads right? That's surprising to hear when it seems like it's no more hassle than making a volume cover. Also the stuff about the editors, that shit must be brutal to be someone like Oda's editor. You would barely have a say in anything, but realistically that's how it should be due to dude's success.

 

[De La Croissant]

So, based on all this info, the theory that the new editor-in-chief is pushing the new titles is valid or not?

 

[Bigivelfhq]

So, based on all this info, the theory that the new editor-in-chief is pushing the new titles is valid or not?

Again, the "New Editor in Chief" is quite old. He is there since Toriko in 2008.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 12, 2017, Original Post Date: Sep 12, 2017 ---

Also the stuff about the editors, that shit must be brutal to be someone like Oda's editor. You would barely have a say in anything, but realistically that's how it should be due to dude's success.

I believe that is the reason things went wrong for Bleach and Naruto. Noob Editors that didn't had a say, and let the authors do everything.

 

[De La Croissant]

An editor stays with an author for how many years before being replaced? Three?

 

[Mammo]

Jump sales for 4/9 to 10/9 (I only copied stuff that managed to be in the top 50)

1 My Hero Academia　１５ 集英社 堀越耕平 2017.9.4
2 Food Wars ２６ 集英社 附田祐斗 2017.9.4
3 The Promised Neverland　５ 集英社 出水ぽすか 2017.9.4
5 Kekkai Sensen Back2Back　３ 集英社 内藤泰弘 2017.9.4
9 Kinnikuman　６０ 集英社 ゆでたまご 2017.9.4
10 Yuuna of Yuragi Manor　７ 集英社 ミウラタダヒロ 2017.9.4
13 Dr.Stone　２ 集英社 Ｂｏｉｃｈｉ 2017.9.4
25 Hinomaru Sumo　１６ 集英社 川田 2017.9.4
31 Dokyuu ****** HxEros　１ 集英社 きただりょうま 2017.9.4
38 My Hero Academia Vigilante　２ 集英社 古橋秀之 2017.9.4
39 My Hero Academia Smash　４ 集英社 根田啓史 2017.9.4

※30位以下のおおまかな実売目安（推定）
30位31000/50位16900/100位7850/200位4200/300位2850/400位2250/500位1800

 

[Tamil]

I never really kept up with HZ sales....so it's been stationary in terms of growth this whole time? Is it at risk of cancellation since it started act 2?

 

[razerxs]

The latter sounds more like a double-edged sword to me. While it's true that assigning new editors to veterans is a good way to train up the newbies, but the opposite effect could also happen when the newer editors put in suggestions that end up derailing the story without any constructive reason to back his suggestion up.

I believe it's meant to force the newbies to develop stronger arguments behind their suggestions. It'd be worse to pair them with newer authors who'd be much more suggestible to bad changes. The actual worst case would be ignoring the newbies' input. I like the idea that authors are demanding others' opinions and trying new things.

2 Food Wars ２６ 集英社 附田祐斗 2017.9.4
3 The Promised Neverland　５ 集英社 出水ぽすか 2017.9.4

It just keeps on climbing.

 

[XtrnlArdent]

It's that bad news for Yuragi? If I'm correct that was the first week of sales.

 

[Scruffy8642]

I never really kept up with HZ sales....so it's been stationary in terms of growth this whole time? Is it at risk of cancellation since it started act 2?

Well if it was they would have ended it at act 1. It was literally the perfect place to end the series and no one would have complained if it had. Yet it still didn't, which is reason to suspect Jump have plans for it.

 

[Nakura]

I'm really curious to see MHA's numbers tomorrow. This is the first volume since 12 that didn't have an OVA edition, and the series has had a good backlog boost throughout S2.

 

[jagman1x3]

Jump sales for 4/9 to 10/9 (I only copied stuff that managed to be in the top 50)

1 My Hero Academia　１５ 集英社 堀越耕平 2017.9.4
2 Food Wars ２６ 集英社 附田祐斗 2017.9.4
3 The Promised Neverland　５ 集英社 出水ぽすか 2017.9.4
5 Kekkai Sensen Back2Back　３ 集英社 内藤泰弘 2017.9.4
9 Kinnikuman　６０ 集英社 ゆでたまご 2017.9.4
10 Yuuna of Yuragi Manor　７ 集英社 ミウラタダヒロ 2017.9.4
13 Dr.Stone　２ 集英社 Ｂｏｉｃｈｉ 2017.9.4
25 Hinomaru Sumo　１６ 集英社 川田 2017.9.4
31 Dokyuu ****** HxEros　１ 集英社 きただりょうま 2017.9.4
38 My Hero Academia Vigilante　２ 集英社 古橋秀之 2017.9.4
39 My Hero Academia Smash　４ 集英社 根田啓史 2017.9.4

※30位以下のおおまかな実売目安（推定）
30位31000/50位16900/100位7850/200位4200/300位2850/400位2250/500位1800

Not seeing Our Lonely War here, list and Japan's taste invalidated.

 

[Newkerzy]

I believe it's meant to force the newbies to develop stronger arguments behind their suggestions. It'd be worse to pair them with newer authors who'd be much more suggestible to bad changes. The actual worst case would be ignoring the newbies' input. I like the idea that authors are demanding others' opinions and trying new things.

I agree with this. But IMO, it's also just as possible for a newbie to screw up an author's whole story by pointing it in another direction. They could try and steer a story based on popularity of a subplot/characters, which is a weak argument. I think this is what a lot of new editors fall into. I think that due to Jump's competitive nature among its editors, a lot of them try to keep the ratings up no matter what and that can be detrimental to the story.

I remember to this day that Yahagi (Kishi's editor) switched with a newbie somewhere around Itachi vs Sasuke. After that, we had the Pain invasion arc which was the series' highest point. But post-Pain, everything went downhill (with the exception of Kushina's flashback). It's at this point you have to question where the fault lies between Kishi and his editor.

I personally think that the editorial department really needs to choose based on compatibility, rather than assigning a less-experienced editor for experience's sake.Yahagi and Kishi already had a great dynamic going on, and they knew what the other is thinking. If they wanted to switch Yahagi with someone else, they should pick someone who shares the same kind of vision Yahagi had.

Tl;dr. What is Jump's full criteria on assigning new editors to veterans?

 

[XtrnlArdent]

Not seeing Our Lonely War here, list and Japan's taste invalidated.

You like Futaribocchi Sensou too, I see you are a man of culture as well. I'm impressed by the sales of ****** HxEros, maybe it becomes one of the bestselling titles in Jump SQ.

 

[Mammo]

74 9784088811543 ふたりぼっち戦争　１ 集英社 肘原えるぼ 2017.9.4

this is not great, but it could be worse

 

[razerxs]

I personally think that the editorial department really needs to choose based on compatibility, rather than assigning a less-experienced editor for experience's sake.Yahagi and Kishi already had a great dynamic going on, and they knew what the other is thinking. If they wanted to switch Yahagi with someone else, they should pick someone who shares the same kind of vision Yahagi had.

That dynamic is sort of a problem on its own. I remember that Yahagi was credited for pushing the Uchiha lore which was the worst anchor on the series.

The point of an editor is to give the author a fresh take and critical advice. They're not supposed to write the series. At the end of the day, vision needs to be the author's responsibility.

 

[Newkerzy]

That dynamic is sort of a problem on its own. I remember that Yahagi was credited for pushing the Uchiha lore which was the worst anchor on the series.

The point of an editor is to give the author a fresh take and critical advice. They're not supposed to write the series. At the end of the day, vision needs to be the author's responsibility.

Yes, the Uchiha lore was undoubtedly the worst crux of the series, but then I have to ask, how did he end up writing something as great as Pain arc? The only arc that topped it in any other series in my memory would be the Kamino arc in MHA. How much of Yahagi's influence was in that arc? If it was 100% Kishi, and not his new editor, then he really should've been given free reign after all.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Yes, the Uchiha lore was undoubtedly the worst crux of the series, but then I have to ask, how did he end up writing something as great as Pain arc? The only arc that topped it in any other series in my memory would be the Kamino arc in MHA. How much of Yahagi's influence was in that arc? If it was 100% Kishi, and not his new editor, then he really should've been given free reign after all.

The Pain arc gets ruined entirely by its copout ending undoing the damage that had been done throughout the arc and started the "talk no jutsu" trend that stuck with the series until the end. It does have the most tense moments in the series especially if you read it as it was going on and the final moment where all the villagers are thanking Naruto is pretty feelsy especially if you had been following the series since the very beginning but they really did drop the ball with that ending.

 

[Doughboy]

The Pain arc gets ruined entirely by its copout ending undoing the damage that had been done throughout the arc and started the "talk no jutsu" trend that stuck with the series until the end. It does have the most tense moments in the series especially if you read it as it was going on and the final moment where all the villagers are thanking Naruto is pretty feelsy especially if you had been following the series since the very beginning but they really did drop the ball with that ending.

I would still give this arc a 10/10 for personal bias but imagine if talk no jutsu was never invented which led to the my main issue with the pitfalls in the war arc. Things would of been so much different. Realistically between Kishi and his editor, I wouldn't know who to give more blame to for the downward trend at the end.

 

[Bigivelfhq]

You liked the pain arc?

I liked parts of it, but calling it good is too much. It was probably one of the worst invasions and defensive battles I ever read . And the fact that the Village had so many interesting characters and the possibility of appearing even more new and unknown others, but in the end basically anybody did anything(other than being powned, majorly off-screen).

Not to talk about retarded Tsunade in the entire arc. And then everything going for Naruto, that got a stupid powerup, powerup the felt even worse given the 2,5 years of timeskip where there little powerup, if not powerdown(due to the uncontrol of kyubi) and right before elemental training.

Also not to talk the way the arc started was stupid and destroyed a ton of plot points of the series. The akatsuki never during Naruto life attacked the village. Sasuke in the beginning of that arc even asked why, and Kizame responded because they didn't had man power. That was a little weak argument, for taking decades to take a kid, but it was all destroyed with Tobi sending right after Pain to attack the village because of a whim. And worse the fact that Pain totally powned the entire village. It practically invalidated every base the story had until that point.


About who is to fault about how the story went. The fault is always and will always be of the author. The story his is, the final word is his, the one that places what he has to place is his, and the name in the chapters is his.