Discussion Bounties: How are they Attributed?

[Ketimatsu]

I never said Katakuri is weak. I just said that he's not as strong as people are making him out to be. The reasons you mentioned above show that he's strong. But, is he stronger than Cracker? At least when it comes to facing Luffy?

I do not know, maybe. I just gave you reasons that are totally legitimate suggesting he could be stronger than Cracker We will see, but there are reasons to believe so, it is not just delusional fanboy comments.

Grabbing him counts as a hit. Katakuri was caught in his grip.

Bah it did not do anything to him, as I said he has good reasons too to be dragged into the mirror world.

In this situation Luffy is the half dead guy while Katakuri is the fully powered guy. Katakuri should've been able to take out Luffy in a couple of seconds If he was truly that strong. But he couldn't.

To me it does not seem Katakuri has really tried to take out Luffy, litterally he is toying around so far. And so far the most troublesome thing with Katakuri is that no attack seems to do anything to him. I will not comment further on Doflamingo but I disagree, Luffy needed G4 to defeat them and I do not think without he would have won.

Er, no. The Marine put a bounty out on Luffy not because of his power, but because Luffy attacked him. Nothing to do with Luffy beating Arlong or Krieg (which no Marine at the time would have known).

And the amount of the bounty was 30 millions because he beat those guys.

Saying that he's fine even without any rest isn't realistic

He ate Sanji's food, slept in the mirror world and drank milk. Perfect rest for Luffy.

Why didn't Katakuri just stay on the ship which has all of his enemies on it? I don't get what you're trying to say. Why would Katakuri want to go inside the mirror world in the first place? Maybe he gave up on trying to kill his enemies so he could look cool?

He knows the real threat is Luffy, he said it himself and want to kill personally while he has zero interest in the others. He did not lay a finger to deal with Brook and Chopper. And on top they are still on Big Mom territory with all his brothers and sisters and Big Mom herself after them. It is quite smart to face Luffy in an environment he knows. No seriously no big deal there.

And I do not get why this discussion about bounties keeps going. We all know they do not NECESSARILY represent strength and other factors can / are involved. But again quite often they were used to hint / highlight the strength of a character. In the case of Katakuri, it does not NECESSARILY means he is the strongest. But the most likely reason for his bounty without further information is that he is REALLY strong, more than he committed 10000000 crimes or went on 100000 missions for Big Mom. Do not see what is so hard to get.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Also, why do you guys insist that Cracker's performance was better than Katakuri's?

It was actually better up until last chapter. Only the last chapter truly showcased just how strong Katakuri was. Prior to last chapter, no one could really determine just how strong he was. Everything he'd done up until then paled in comparison to what Cracker has done against Luffy.

Plus character's design and wow-effect could also serve as indicators of strength

Not really, that's subjective. Someone could sincerely find Bobbin's character design to be the coolest character design ever, and as far as we've seen, he's not that strong. Design isn't characteristic of strength, it's merely design. Weevil was said to possess strength akin to that of Whitebeard's in his youth, his design is not that great to many, but from such a comparison, we can tell he's powerful. Design is not a substantial way to project power, it's rather superficial and presumptuous. Judging a book by is cover is what kids do; Luffy's character has non wow to it nor is his design that great compared to his enemies, yet, he's strong.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Not really, that's subjective. Someone could sincerely find Bobbin's character design to be the coolest character design ever, and as far as we've seen, he's not that strong. Design isn't characteristic of strength, it's merely design. Weevil was said to possess strength akin to that of Whitebeard's in his youth, his design is not that great to many, but from such a comparison, we can tell he's powerful. Design is not a substantial way to project power, it's rather superficial and presumptuous. Judging a book by is cover is what kids do; Luffy's character has non wow to it nor is his design that great compared to his enemies, yet, he's strong.

That's why I say "could also" and not "should always" :-)

Keep in mind that we're not reading an encyclopedia here. It's a fictional story which revolves around keeping us readers entertained. And for that there are numerous writing/drawing techniques: character design, first introduction, bounty revelation, other characters' opinion etc.

With Bobbin we knew next to nothing about his powers and position in the crew. Apart from the fact that he somehow managed to destroy an island... But with Katakuri we knew right away that he was one of the three sweet commanders, his OH was seemingly unparalleled, his design was pure epicness, his bounty was the highest we've ever seen, Bege feared him and complimented his strength.

Before last chapter as well, Katakuri toyed with everyone who attempted to land a hit on him.

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https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...s_Ichiji.png/revision/latest?cb=2017081803352

I couldn't find a single panel where Luffy coughs blood while fighting against Cracker, but in case with Katakuri, he did.

___________

D: Question!! If God Enel were to descend to the Blue Sea, how much would his bounty be? Also, what would happen if he did that? Would he rule the Blue Sea? P.N. Gorozoro

O: I see. Interesting question. Knowing how tricky he would be to beat, I'd imagine he could reach as much as 500,000,000. Luffy was lucky to be rubber. But like Luffy said, there all sorts of even crazier guys down on the Blue Sea. Enel would NOT rule it.

Even Oda himself thinks (knows) that it's quite normal to think of a bounty as a power level indicator.

 

[Enima]

First those are not bruises, but burns. Second, Perospero was in the epicenter of that explosion, we also don't know wether he used Haki or not. And finally what's your point? Big Mom was said to be akin to an iron ball even ignoring the Haki, so her being damaged by that explosion says something. And for Perospero who was inches away from Pedro to get away with simply losing a limb is quite impressive. And then he just grows a new candy arm, uses this crazy candy slug technique and overall looks very capable of continuing fighting.

If he didn't use Haki, then we have to question his Intelligence. He already knew that Pedro was gonna blow himself up So unless he was some kind of Idiot, he should've used haki.

Big Mom is not Invincible, she used Haki against Luffy and was stunned by Zeus' attack she can take damage from physical impact, she's not Kaido.

Losing a Limb because of a bomb is enough proof to show that he's pretty weak. If he wasn't using armament Haki then that just makes things worse. How can we consider him strong If he isn't smart enough to use armament Haki when a bomb's gonna explode right next to him?

Also, why do you guys insist that Cracker's performance was better than Katakuri's? It was impressive, but if I recall correctly nearly each of Katakuri's punches/kicks made Luffy cough blood while Katakuri himself wasn't even scratched once. At the very least he was on par with Cracker, from that perspective.

Cracker vs Luffy:- Luffy at 100% power , had help from Nami. Couldn't touch cracker for 11 hours.
Katakuri vs Luffy:- Luffy's exhausted due to the battle aginst Cracker, no one is helping Luffy. Caught Katakuri and Katakuri couldn't get out of his grip.

Wow, great achievement. What did it do to Katakuri again? Oh, nothing... Right.

He stopped Katakuri from harming any of his crew mates. That was Luffy's aim and he has achieved it already. If this was Cracker, Luffy would be fighting 10 soldiers in the mirror world while 10 soldiers are on the Sunny slaughtering the Straw hats.

This is a lame excuse for a New World pirate. New World's big fish can fight days on without rest. Ace vs Jinbei – 5 days. Akainu vs Aokiji – 10 days.

Depends on who he fights. He can fight Perespero for days. He can fight 17 year old Ace for more than five days (not that he needs to, Luffy can prolly finish them in minutes with G4). A battle only lasts that long if the fighters are equal in power.

This is Like saying Usain bolt is nothing compared to marathon Runners because he only runs short distances while they run miles.

Why did Lucci let Luffy reach him?

Because he wanted to challenge Luffy, but at the same time he was making sure he completed his mission. Fighting against Luffy didn't Impact Robin's capture. Different situation here.

If you're saying Katakuri chose to be captured by Luffy then that means he allowed the Straw hats to escape for no good reason. Lucci didn't let anyone escape intentionally.

Also, someone asked Oda in SBS once what bounty would Enel have had he sailed the seas as a pirate. And Oda replied – 500 million berries. He clearly meant it in a way that the number represents Enel's power level.

Meanwhile the guy who kicked enel's ass ages ago has gotten 100 times stronger but just received a 500 million beri bounty. So....... "It represents power levels"?

Bah it did not do anything to him, as I said he has good reasons too to be dragged into the mirror world.

I still don't see the good reason

To me it does not seem Katakuri has really tried to take out Luffy, litterally he is toying around so far. And so far the most troublesome thing with Katakuri is that no attack seems to do anything to him. I will not comment further on Doflamingo but I disagree, Luffy needed G4 to defeat them and I do not think without he would have won.

He doesn't seem like the typa guy to play around.

Yeah, Doflamingo would've won at the end. But it wasn't gonna be a one sided battle.

He ate Sanji's food, slept in the mirror world and drank milk. Perfect rest for Luffy.

We're talking about a guy who rests for days after a fight. This isn't anywhere close to being enough.

He knows the real threat is Luffy, he said it himself and want to kill personally while he has zero interest in the others. He did not lay a finger to deal with Brook and Chopper. And on top they are still on Big Mom territory with all his brothers and sisters and Big Mom herself after them. It is quite smart to face Luffy in an environment he knows. No seriously no big deal there.

Again, If he chose to fight In the mirror world, then he should've Grabbed Luffy and Jumped Inside instead of what's happening now. He couldn't have possibly planned all of this.

Katakuri:- *So I should let this guy grab me, then I should make it look like I can't get out, and then I should also let him Knock out My sister for no good reason, I should also let Jinbei go even though he betrayed us..... Hah! perfect plan*

 

[Ketimatsu]

He doesn't seem like the typa guy to play around.

Well he is. Unfortunately, again a character who is probably overconfident but we will see. Throws jelly beans around and now he replicates Luffy's attacks....

Again, If he chose to fight In the mirror world, then he should've Grabbed Luffy and Jumped Inside instead of what's happening now. He couldn't have possibly planned all of this.

Did not say he planned all this, but it did not seem to bother him so much. I just suppose he has ways to see it to his advantage too.

We're talking about a guy who rests for days after a fight. This isn't anywhere close to being enough.

Well stamina and endurance are part of strength too and Luffy keeps evolving in these areas too. And in the fight against Cracker what did he do for hours and hours? He ate. xD Bah and like Pea and others mentioned, fights can last for days and days so yeah I do not see anything really shocking or problematic here.

 

[nik87]

You @Enima ate Assume Assume No Mi, you assume way too much in a logic barely anyone except you understands, maybe @Hannibal Psyche since you seem to have similar opinions about this.
I noticed in our discussion about Cracker that you dont get anything and i ended it since there was no point explaining it since you dont understand, here again you dont understand anything. Its pointless arguing since you will argue it your way whatever we present.
I say the sky is blue. Argue it

I'll make one example to hopefully make it clear for you, if you dont understand still then never mind it.
Thing is not about what Katakuri wanted or didnt want. It is about the fact that Oda wanted this fight to play out in Mirror world. So, either Katakuri wanted to get inside or if he didnt want to get inside, doesnt matter, he was getting inside because gOda decided so. I guess you still wont get it

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Meanwhile the guy who kicked enel's ass ages ago has gotten 100 times stronger but just received a 500 million beri bounty. So....... "It represents power levels"?

Just read Oda's answer.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

That's why I say "could also" and not "should always" :-)

Still doesn't work like that. It doesn't indicate strength, it's simply a look. The only context in which appearances indicate strength is when it symbolises a progression in strength like a transformation.

Looks never indicate strength, that's a baseless assumption. A character looking cool doesn't correlate with strength, all it is is simply how they look. Regardless of using "could" doesn't really change anything in this regard.

Keep in mind that we're not reading an encyclopedia here. It's a fictional story which revolves around keeping us readers entertained. And for that there are numerous writing/drawing techniques: character design, first introduction, bounty revelation, other characters' opinion etc.

Entertainment doesn't change the fact that it still has no baring on whether a character is strong or not, that's purely aesthetic. Only facts and fights tell us how strong a character is.

With Bobbin we knew next to nothing about his powers and position in the crew. Apart from the fact that he somehow managed to destroy an island... But with Katakuri we knew right away that he was one of the three sweet commanders, his OH was seemingly unparalleled, his design was pure epicness, his bounty was the highest we've ever seen, Bege feared him and complimented his strength.

Appearances does not complement strength, it's simply an aesthetic feature. Bounty also doesn't tell us strength. Urouge's bounty of 108m in comparison to Kidd's 470m bounty, yet Urouge actually took down a commander. Hell, we didn't even get to see Snack's bounty. For all we know, he had a bounty higher that Perospero which in essence would mean someone with a measly bounty of 108m took down someone with over 700m.

I couldn't find a single panel where Luffy coughs blood while fighting against Cracker, but in case with Katakuri, he did.

Coughing blood up is not a sign of superiority, even Bellamy made Luffy cough blood. What's your point? Cracker overwhelmed Luffy.

Spoiler

Katakuri up until last chapter did nothing significant. All he did was kick Luffy while he was focused on something else. Even Bellamy would be capable of hurting Luffy if he was distracted.

 

[Ketimatsu]

Still doesn't work like that. It doesn't indicate strength, it's simply a look. The only context in which appearances indicate strength is when it symbolises a progression in strength like a transformation.

Looks never indicate strength, that's a baseless assumption. A character looking cool doesn't correlate with strength, all it is is simply how they look. Regardless of using "could" doesn't really change anything in this regard.

Seriously, trying to argue there is no correlation between the look of a character and its strength? Jeez man, you read other mangas? Of course there are links between character design and strength, and so many authors play on that.

Can please someone tell to @Hannibal Psyche the meaning of Urouge bounty? And that was pre-time skip? And we have no clue about how he took down Snack in which conditions or even if he did it alone?

Cracker overwhelmed Luffy.

Nobody can defeat an opponent whose powers are totally unknown, here is the simple reason why he was overpowered.

 

[I Am Atomic]

the meaning of Urouge bounty?

Many of you mentioned what Bounty in One Piece world indicates. There were variety of reasons. Here is one more none of you mentioned. Oda likes to do whatever he wants and that is what he did with Urogue's bounty of 108 million berries.

Spoiler: Signifance of number 108 in Buddhism

"In Buddhism, according to Bhante Gunaratana this number is reached by multiplying the senses smell, touch, taste, hearing, sight, and consciousness by whether they are painful, pleasant or neutral, and then again by whether these are internally generated or externally occurring, and yet again by past, present and future, finally we get 108 feelings. 6 × 3 × 2 × 3 = 108.

Tibetan Buddhist malas or rosaries (Tib. ཕྲེང་བ Wyl. phreng ba, "Trengwa") are usually 108 beads; sometimes 111 including the guru bead(s), reflecting the words of the Buddha called in Tibetan the Kangyur (Wylie: Bka'-'gyur) in 108 volumes. Zen priests wear juzu (a ring of prayer beads) around their wrists, which consists of 108 beads.

Japa mala, or japa beads, made from tulasi wood, consisting of 108 beads plus the head bead.
The Lankavatara Sutra has a section where the Bodhisattva Mahamati asks Buddha 108 questions and another section where Buddha lists 108 statements of negation in the form of "A statement concerning X is not a statement concerning X." In a footnote, D.T. Suzuki explains that the Sanskrit word translated as "statement" is pada which can also mean "foot-step" or "a position." This confusion over the word "pada" explains why some have mistakenly held that the reference to 108 statements in the Lankavatara refer to the 108 steps that many temples have.

In Japan, at the end of the year, a bell is chimed 108 times in Buddhist temples to finish the old year and welcome the new one. Each ring represents one of 108 earthly temptations (Bonnō) a person must overcome to achieve nirvana."

Source

Number 108 is relevant in Hinduism and Jainism as well.

Oda likes to put in other information in Bounty's. Therefore, Bounties can be misleading.

I use bounties to hype up a character so I will feel excited when Luffy face them.

Joker and Kuma's bounty: 340mill and 296mill respectively. Moria's bounty is 320mill. The former two are 10 times stronger than Moriah but the bounties doesn't say that. I am comparing a Warlord to another because both their bounties are frozen.

Therefore, IMO, I would recommend people to get hyped when they see high bounties but do not say that A>B because of higher bounty unless it is obvious.

Urogue's bounty shows us that he is a monk. In the SBS, we learn that Urogue likes meat, women and violence. A true monk is not supposed to do these 3 things but Urogue is a rogue monk. This can be seen in his name. Me: U Rogue mate? I made that up.

 

[Ketimatsu]

Urogue's bounty shows us that he is a monk. In the SBS, we learn that Urogue likes meat, women and violence. A true monk is not supposed to do these 3 things but Urogue is a rogue monk. This can be seen in his name. Me: U Rogue mate? I made that up.

thank you @Barrier I thought you mentioned it before quite well.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Regarding Luffy's stamina. I believe that he is back to almost full.

On chapter 871, Luffy clashed with BM using G4

Spoiler

After that we see that Luffy is out of G4 and said "I am loosing power"

Spoiler

Many speculated that BM drained his energy or Luffy is tired. However, what I think happened is different.

BM called Luffy spineless and in reply Luffy said to Sanji "just one puch"

Spoiler

So here it is. From the start, Luffy only wanted to trade one punch with BM. He went G4 and out. However, when he went out of G4, all the air is expelled out, which made Luffy go weaker. Hence, he said he is losing power.

Therefore, I think that Luffy isn't that tired. Otherwise, Luffy v Katakuri shouldn't be happening.

Another thing to add. When Bege asked Jinbe to wake up the SH's he replied by saying let them sleep more cuz they are tired. Then they slept. So, Luffy should be back to full. Exchange with BM was one punch (read above).

Why I believe this is the case is because if Luffy defeat Katakuri then its BS if he was tired.

 

[Enima]

Well stamina and endurance are part of strength too and Luffy keeps evolving in these areas too. And in the fight against Cracker what did he do for hours and hours? He ate. xD Bah and like Pea and others mentioned, fights can last for days and days so yeah I do not see anything really shocking or problematic here.

He ate and fought, eating and fighting sucks up a lot of energy

The problem is Luffy is the only one who has fought before.

When two people fight for days they lose the same amount of stamina. Here, only Luffy has lost stamina while Katakuri is at full power. If katakuri had fought Cracker for eleven hours too then this is a fair battle.

You @Enima ate Assume Assume No Mi, you assume way too much in a logic barely anyone except you understands, maybe @Hannibal Psyche since you seem to have similar opinions about this.

Spoiler

I noticed in our discussion about Cracker that you dont get anything and i ended it since there was no point explaining it since you dont understand, here again you dont understand anything. Its pointless arguing since you will argue it your way whatever we present.
I say the sky is blue. Argue it

I already gave you enough feats to show that Cracker did better against Katakuri. So, yeah there's no point in arguing we should just respect each others opinions and leave it at that....

Spoiler

Bounty does not represent strength

Thing is not about what Katakuri wanted or didnt want. It is about the fact that Oda wanted this fight to play out in Mirror world. So, either Katakuri wanted to get inside or if he didnt want to get inside, doesnt matter, he was getting inside because gOda decided so.

Yeah, like how Luffy's only losing because Oda decided so. How does that prove anything?

Just read Oda's answer.

Yeah, Oda's giving him a 500 million bounty even though he got beaten by a pirate worth 100 million. Why would enel be worth 500 million If strength had anything to do with bounty?

 

[M3J]

If you want to think critically then start doing it. Start thinking behind the scenes. It is Oda who decides things and attaches bounties and he put the numbers accordingly to each character. He knows the background and details for every bounty, if there are details.
Has it been stated that Katakuri went on more missions and why he earned higher bounty? It hasnt. You can assume anything for the sake of argument but like i said it wont change a thing. Bounties are about power levels, exceptions excluded, and power levels only. Additional factors which contribute to bounties are minor percentages which you can ignore since in most cases those are not even mentioned.

Er, but I am thinking behind the scenes and thinking critically. You're the one ignoring what Oda has shown us.

Has it been stated that Katakuri's bounty was due to his power level? No it wasn't, so you're assuming things as well. It's one thing if Oda said that bounties represent power ONLY, but he's also made it a fact that bounties take numerous things into factor. I have the manga supporting this, whereas you only have the early manga.

And the amount of the bounty was 30 millions because he beat those guys.

Can you prove it? Manga doesn't show us that Nezumi cited him beating Arlong as the reason why Luffy's bounty was 30 million. He just wanted Luffy to have a bounty and claimed Luffy was a dangerous criminal. Never stated why. Maybe he did in the anime, but not the manga. You're free to offer proof.

 

[nik87]

Er, but I am thinking behind the scenes and thinking critically. You're the one ignoring what Oda has shown us.

I dont think you are. What am i ignoring?
I am not saying that Bounties represent 100% strength only but i think they do represent strength as main part in most cases. Sure there are exceptions for which bounty has nothing to do with strength but like said, they are exceptions. Ask yourself what is One Piece about, what kind of men are we following and encountering and what bounties represent for such men.

If you have some manga facts supporting your claims explain difference in bounties for the 3 sweet commanders. You can assume here many things but you dont have any details nor facts.

If you think critically then you should know why Luffy's bounty was 30mil. It was not accidentally higher than any other bounty in East Blue.

 

[Enima]

@Barrier this is Luffy after switching back from G4

Spoiler

No way Luffy is weaker than Galette, so the only reason for him to let her step on him like that would be because he's too tired to fight back.

Spoiler

Sanji had to carry him. He's recovered some stamina since then, but he's nowhere near his full power.

 

[nik87]

@Enima He is not tired, its side effect from G4. When he leaves that form he is crippled for some time.

 

[Enima]

He is not tired, its side effect from G4. When he leaves that form he is crippled for some time.

Yeah it drains his energy and since he was already exhausted he's in this state. It's not like he used boundman for a long time either. That shows he's already exhausted.

He can't suddenly go from being unable to defend himself from a low tier fighter to fighting a yonko commander tier character easily.

 

[Kato756]

Cracker - 860mil bounty.
Smoothie - 932mil bounty.
Katakuri - 1.057mil bounty.

What are the crimes they committed?
Have they ever been said?
Will they ever be said?
Why are their bounties not the same if it is not the strength that they represent?

Bounties are measurement of Strength, exceptions excluded (Robin, Dragon, ...). Before you take bounties as something presented from WG, it is an information from Oda firstly, to us, the audience, to let us know how strong the characters are.

Considering the concept of bounty = "the danger they represent to the goverment", which means both influence, information, and raw power, it is not wonder that Top Commanders of a Yonkou, with every member of this group having the power to challenge the marines individually, who also have acess to a bunch of underground network plus (dunno if the WG knows about this, but even if they did, what would they do?) a Road Pone, PLUS their might, plus the capability of commanding the troops of said Yonkou.....is it any wonder their price is so high?

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Yeah, Oda's giving him a 500 million bounty even though he got beaten by a pirate worth 100 million. Why would enel be worth 500 million If strength had anything to do with bounty?

I don't think you read it properly.

Here, I'll post it again:

D: Question!! If God Enel were to descend to the Blue Sea, how much would his bounty be? Also, what would happen if he did that? Would he rule the Blue Sea? P.N. Gorozoro

O: I see. Interesting question. Knowing how tricky he would be to beat, I'd imagine he could reach as much as 500,000,000. Luffy was lucky to be rubber. But like Luffy said, there all sorts of even crazier guys down on the Blue Sea. Enel would NOT rule it.

IF bounties had nothing to do with strength, then Oda would have used different phrasing. But he says it very clearly: Knowing how tricky he would be to BEAT... I'll ask you this, why did Oda say it like that? Should bounties only account for how dangerous the person is to the government, then Oda would have never used such wording in his answer.

In other words, tricky to beat ≈ strong. No matter how you look at it, "tricky to beat" is an attribute of ability/power so it's in direct correlation with strength/combat prowess. And Oda claims, that this aspect, precisely, could lead to Enel reaching a bounty of 500 million berries.