I understand, but it doesn't have anything to do with animation as far as I'm concerned. In the end what you said that none of the examples of heavy dialogue mangas adapted to anime were from Jump doesn't make much sense. They are the same, in the end... But it is interesting what you said because I don't tend to read Jump mangas in Japanese because I find them harder than from other publishers...
There's not that much to begin with that's why I asked the question. Death Note is just one example that sprung to my mind since its the most popular example and then sharkbait mentioned Bakuman. If any case the whole point of this doesn't really mean anything since Neverland's dialogue isn't particularly heavy or should be noted as an aspect that needs to be done to perfection since almost everything that dispels from the characters mouths is exposition.
Jump is making a caravan to scout new mangakas. It is from Jump SQ profile, but by what they said other Jump magazines are also there.
That's interesting, it is regular or they started with this recently?
I honestly think Toriko would have done better if it had a better anime adaptation. That's not even a controversial opinion, most fans think the same way. In fact, I'll take it a step further. I think the series would still be going.
Yeah and my follow-up question was how often does Toei air at night?
Thank you. Not a whole lot.
Is that why the chief in editor at the time was worried about how Toriko will do at the start? Clearly Toriko had a 80s aesthetic from the start till the end, that is niche since it doesn't appeal to a large audience and more specific. Besides, the main cast are all adults & not to mention it's excessive violence.
Lol. Since Toriko manga was kid friendly at the start, why did Toei censor it heavily? Yes, morning timeslot but they clearly transformed it to for a kid audience by censoring to an absolute extreme. Most of the science world buidling/explanations was completely removed (censored) too. Is that not transforming (dumbing down) for a kid audience? The censorship is more extreme than One Piece's and they ended up bringing it back near the end of the anime run.
Thankfully we got an OVA to compare it to. Toriko's OVA & second episode are completely different in atmosphere. It's obvious that Toei did a lot of transforming. That OVA was a lot more faithful, wouldn't you agree?
Do you have proof that Toriko was attracting mainly kids? Kids as in like under the age of 10? If anything I would guess it's teens (13+) or pre-teens and probably people who were fans of Takeshi that are clearly aren't kids anymore at the start of Toriko's serialization.
What do I think it means for a studio to destroy a series because of censorship? Bad adaptation. There are people who think Toriko's manga sales would maybe be better had it adapted the material better but that's not part of the discussion.
Do you even know what you're talking about? The Current Editor in Chief, at the time of Toriko he wasn't the Editor in Chief, but the editor of Toriko. Yep, and that was the reason why he was worried about how "his" series was going to go. You know that just shows how involved he was in all the process. Not that Toriko is Niche. Sometimes I don't understand how you come up with this things.
Also do you know what Niche means? And do you know the difference between Niche title and Niche subject. You could argue that the subject matter of Toriko is Niche, but certainly you can't argue that Toriko is Niche. Because if you do that, you turn around 80% if not more of the manga industry into niche. And so that would mean that the manga industry is Niche, something that is not, given that is even a worldwide Japanese cultural industry.
Did you just totally forgot what I wrote in a previous post? The reason why the things Toriko manga had didn't got away in TV anime? Let's make a more concrete example:
You have a violent manga like Devilman and its audience is spread like this:
90% - kids
9% - Teenagers
1% - Adults
Then an anime studio goes for an adaptation. They see that the manga is popular with kids, and basically with no other demographic. So they will make an anime for kids, but TV anime asks for more care and censorship of content. So they have to choose, be pure with the content(something that kids don't care, teenagers care somewhat, and Adult totally require) or go with audiences(kids that love the series, teenagers that like it, or Adults that don't really care that much). Obviously, they would choose the audience, is really a no brainer, and that showed with the popularity the anime got and the merchandise.
Also saying that Toriko was more censored than One Piece would only make sense if One Piece had a similar level of the things that were censored in Toriko. But it doesn't! Like you say you have the OVA that shown the edgy the series could be, since when did One Piece was anywhere that edgier? Also since when did One Piece got info dumps about simple subject matters, like the entire story of a snake that will only be relevant in that one fight?
This is like arguing that Attack on Titan was more censored than Doraemon. Is obviously false equivalence.
Nope, the OVA wasn't more faithful at all. In fact it had a "reverse-censorship" were they added a ton of edge.
And is funny that you think that faithfulness is basically to do with edge and dialogues. When you in the manga have Toriko only doing a single head cut and killing the Galalagate and in the Ova you have him using a ton of later seen attacks and totally pulverize the animal and having is parts flying in the most gruesome way possible, but you think that the TV anime just not showing explicitly the head cut is less faithful.
When you have the episode of the leeches, that didn't happen anywhere in the manga, and when you have the totally removal of the introduction of the world and that we are in the gourmet age, and jump directly to the stuff that would certainly be censored in Television(I'm talking of Toriko drinking and Smoking), It obviously is not more faithful than the other.
It doesn't matter your definition of kids, what matters it isn't the people where you would air anime at late night. Takeshi was also mainly liked by kids, So ...
Toriko anime was trash, just like 90% of what Toei animates nowadays. But even though it was somewhat expected, no one could have predicted they would fuck up on that level.
Gray Winter stop arguing with Bigvelfhq. He's a well known Toei shill and will defend any of their decisions regardless of what reality states. The Toriko debacle is something people still make light of to this day on Jump 2ch threads because even they were aware of how shamelessly pushed it was.
Better be a Toei Shill, that is a great company and is right now in its peak, then a My Hero Academia Shill, that says its doing amazing, even though the timeslot it was got cancelled soon after and the new one is only out of being the lowest due to the miracle that is "denpa kyoushi".
Better be a Toei Shill, that is a great company and is right now in its peak, then a My Hero Academia Shill, that says its doing amazing, even though the timeslot it was got cancelled soon after and the new one is only out of being the lowest due to the miracle that is "denpa kyoushi".
That's one two of its biggest money makers have dropped in the ratings for the past two weeks (well they've been dropping for a while before now) because they got greedy thinking they can sustain the audience share against Sentai/Rider new timeslot and lost out big time (Super did worse than Build) as a result? Is that why they haven't had a success new IP in years and that everything they've tried to lazy out on has backfired? In fact the only reason why they're on top is because of their catalogue of popular IP not because of their actual growth as a company. Congrats you're shilling a studio that the equivalent of McDonalds.
Imagine being so salty over the success of a new IP that you still spout the same garbage over and over again despite reality saying otherwise then again you're the same person who says that a show that got cancelled wasn't a failure yet a show that keeps growing and growing and is well on into another run is doing poorly.
Yep it did fine. Also the best selling show on that timeslot as well. YTV even used MHA likeness to promote their other shows and even pulled out a full page advertisement in the newspaper which doesn't happen unless you're doing something right.
Yeah I'm not even sure why he keeps saying the Toriko anime was anything but a failure even back when it first started its ratings were seen as dismal for the slot it was on (bare in mind back then DBZ Kai scoring a 10% was considered "okay" compared now where only Sazae-san can get those every week so Toriko's 5.3% was seen as bad despite the fact that's how DBS is doing nowadays) and merchandise sales dried up after its first year (add insult to injury despite World Trigger being on permanant hiatus and the anime ending there's still new merch being made for it while when Toriko ended Toei pretty much closed up shop)
"If Toei fucked up Toriko, then I guess it's better for Toei to handle adaptations over any other studio."
Can you please explain to me how that line of reasoning makes any sense at all? I can see that English isn't your first language, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you meant something else.
Since we still want to talk about Toriko, here's my argument why it isn't "that" popular (feel free to disagree with me):
I only read 30 chapters so far so i won't comment about the plots
Toriko's art is so 90's with the macho men, it won't attract the 2008 audience that way. Despite that, it's still running for 8 years.
Lack of female gourmet hunters. Most of them are chefs.You gotta have female characters so that the audience can relate to them. Rin appears once in a blue moon and treats as Toriko's love interest for the most part. I know in the beginning(?) it mentioned that there are less female gourmet hunters because the job is so dangerous, but that can't stop the author to diversify them.
I mean there's female characters, they just aren't exactly relevant. I really misread that last word given the subject was females and was about to type a very different reply...
I kinda agree with the aesthetics arguments. Are muscle guys really that popular nowadays?
The biggest hits of the decade all have young looking, skinny characters. Even pillars of the 80's and 90's like Toriyama have slowly departed from the overly muscular designs to more simply looking ones. Araki is another example.
Do you even know what you're talking about? The Current Editor in Chief, at the time of Toriko he wasn't the Editor in Chief, but the editor of Toriko. Yep, and that was the reason why he was worried about how "his" series was going to go. You know that just shows how involved he was in all the process. Not that Toriko is Niche. Sometimes I don't understand how you come up with this things.
Also do you know what Niche means? And do you know the difference between Niche title and Niche subject. You could argue that the subject matter of Toriko is Niche, but certainly you can't argue that Toriko is Niche. Because if you do that, you turn around 80% if not more of the manga industry into niche. And so that would mean that the manga industry is Niche, something that is not, given that is even a worldwide Japanese cultural industry.
Did you just totally forgot what I wrote in a previous post? The reason why the things Toriko manga had didn't got away in TV anime? Let's make a more concrete example:
You have a violent manga like Devilman and its audience is spread like this:
90% - kids
9% - Teenagers
1% - Adults
Then an anime studio goes for an adaptation. They see that the manga is popular with kids, and basically with no other demographic. So they will make an anime for kids, but TV anime asks for more care and censorship of content. So they have to choose, be pure with the content(something that kids don't care, teenagers care somewhat, and Adult totally require) or go with audiences(kids that love the series, teenagers that like it, or Adults that don't really care that much). Obviously, they would choose the audience, is really a no brainer, and that showed with the popularity the anime got and the merchandise.
Also saying that Toriko was more censored than One Piece would only make sense if One Piece had a similar level of the things that were censored in Toriko. But it doesn't! Like you say you have the OVA that shown the edgy the series could be, since when did One Piece was anywhere that edgier? Also since when did One Piece got info dumps about simple subject matters, like the entire story of a snake that will only be relevant in that one fight?
This is like arguing that Attack on Titan was more censored than Doraemon. Is obviously false equivalence.
Nope, the OVA wasn't more faithful at all. In fact it had a "reverse-censorship" were they added a ton of edge.
And is funny that you think that faithfulness is basically to do with edge and dialogues. When you in the manga have Toriko only doing a single head cut and killing the Galalagate and in the Ova you have him using a ton of later seen attacks and totally pulverize the animal and having is parts flying in the most gruesome way possible, but you think that the TV anime just not showing explicitly the head cut is less faithful.
When you have the episode of the leeches, that didn't happen anywhere in the manga, and when you have the totally removal of the introduction of the world and that we are in the gourmet age, and jump directly to the stuff that would certainly be censored in Television(I'm talking of Toriko drinking and Smoking), It obviously is not more faithful than the other.
It doesn't matter your definition of kids, what matters it isn't the people where you would air anime at late night. Takeshi was also mainly liked by kids, So ...
It's a niche series in terms of what's it about. I thought it was obvious in the way I explained it. That explains why the editor was worried whether it would sell or not. That's a fact, moving on.
I'm not sure what you're trying to do here. All I'm asking for are figures of Toriko's age demographics at the start.
The OVA was better adapted for sure. Toei fans like to sweep the gore/violence under the rug as if it doesn't mean such but that's certainly one of the traits of the Toriko manga. More importantly, the OVA caught the mood/atmosphere for the first 2 chapters. That's what was important, Baron Arch. felt a lot more ominous (the soundtrack helped a lot) and the galalagator felt more menacing/threat before the fight in the OVA. Toriko's portrayal in the OVA was more accurate to the manga. In the anime it definitely felt like a kiddy adventure. It never really felt like Toriko.
Still no proof that Toriko had mainly kids audience in the start. Yeah...Takeshi fans were mainly kids (reasonable assumption) and guess what...by the time Toriko serialized, they weren't kids anymore. It's not rocket science.
I mean there's female characters, they just aren't exactly relevant. I really misread that last word given the subject was females and was about to type a very different reply...
I kinda agree with the aesthetics arguments. Are muscle guys really that popular nowadays?
The biggest hits of the decade all have young looking, skinny characters. Even pillars of the 80's and 90's like Toriyama have slowly departed from the overly muscular designs to more simply looking ones. Araki is another example.
Nah, the time of the macho men really has passed. You don't see many manga like that nowadays, or at least popular ones. It actually surprised me that Toriko was selling so well even with its somewhat outdated art style. Lots of testosterone in that manga. Nowadays we have a lot more of the young pretty boys because that's what sells, especially with the constant rise of the fujo audience.
I wouldn't really classify Golden Kamui as a macho men manga. It's badass, sure, and the characters are well built, but it doesn't have that FotNS style like early JoJo and Toriko did. Also, the characters are a lot more homoerotic and "pretty" than Toriko's characters ever were. Might turn off some people lol.
For some reason, I never saw sales figures of Golden Kamui (although I never really looked for them either). ANN says that it has 3.2 mil copies in print with 11 volumes released, so I guess it's doing better than I expected. I always thought it was a sub 100k manga.
What? On the Wikipedia entry for Golden Kamuy, the plot outline doesn't make it seem anything like that.
"Saichi Sugimoto, a survivor of the battle of 203 Hill in the Russo-Japanese War has become a miner in Hokkaido in order to provide for the widow of his dead comrade, Toraji. He hears a dubious story of hidden Ainu gold (worth about 800,000,000 JPY / 6,636,000 USD) stashed by a criminal group, and accidentally finds clues to its location. After being attacked by the 7th Division of the Imperial Japanese Army and other mysterious groups, he decides to search for the gold along with an Ainu girl, Asirpa, who rescues him from Hokkaido's harsh northern wilderness."
What? On the Wikipedia entry for Golden Kamuy, the plot outline doesn't make it seem anything like that.
"Saichi Sugimoto, a survivor of the battle of 203 Hill in the Russo-Japanese War has become a miner in Hokkaido in order to provide for the widow of his dead comrade, Toraji. He hears a dubious story of hidden Ainu gold (worth about 800,000,000 JPY / 6,636,000 USD) stashed by a criminal group, and accidentally finds clues to its location. After being attacked by the 7th Division of the Imperial Japanese Army and other mysterious groups, he decides to search for the gold along with an Ainu girl, Asirpa, who rescues him from Hokkaido's harsh northern wilderness."
If you read Kamuy it is kinda. There were chapters where they hunt animals like bears, rabbits, etc. for food.
It's obviously more than that but there was elements like that. It certainly wasn't as macho as Toriko since Toriko brought it to a whole new extreme where it got really ridiculous.
Nah, the time of the macho men really has passed. You don't see many manga like that nowadays, or at least popular ones. It actually surprised me that Toriko was selling so well even with its somewhat outdated art style. Lots of testosterone in that manga. Nowadays we have a lot more of the young pretty boys because that's what sells, especially with the constant rise of the fujo audience.
What? On the Wikipedia entry for Golden Kamuy, the plot outline doesn't make it seem anything like that.
"Saichi Sugimoto, a survivor of the battle of 203 Hill in the Russo-Japanese War has become a miner in Hokkaido in order to provide for the widow of his dead comrade, Toraji. He hears a dubious story of hidden Ainu gold (worth about 800,000,000 JPY / 6,636,000 USD) stashed by a criminal group, and accidentally finds clues to its location. After being attacked by the 7th Division of the Imperial Japanese Army and other mysterious groups, he decides to search for the gold along with an Ainu girl, Asirpa, who rescues him from Hokkaido's harsh northern wilderness."
thinks of this as a game
the above synopsis is the main quest
the food hunting is the side quests
the manga is 70% side quests and 30% main quest
just read it, it's fantastic
Not to mention 2 of those still have full sequel manga ongoing by the original creators while another had one up until last year, and even now it still has at least one ongoing spin-off series.
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