Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2018] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[SharkBait]

Bozebeats will be the Black Torch of Jump.

Is that good?

I was thinking itd be the next BLeach.

 

[TyVip]

Is that good?

No not really.

In term of sales and content.

 

[cody]

No not really.

In term of sales and content.

BT is fine content wise, in my opinion. Bozebeats is actually really similar to BT, so let's see how it differentiates itself since it has a weekly schedule to work with.

 

[savethecat]

Bozebeats was only okay to me.

Wasn’t bad, but I feel like we don’t need another exorcism/demon hunting manga with Kimetsu No Yaiba in the magazine. And Kimetsu is already so unique with its writing style and art style.


Bozebeats art is great, but at the same time doesn’t have a unique art style the separate it from other series too much. And outside of the Monks using guns, it’s not super different from other exorcism series.

With that being said, from a technical standpoint I thought it was well drawn and well written. Just nothing that stands out

 

[iceemperor]

BT is fine content wise, in my opinion. Bozebeats is actually really similar to BT, so let's see how it differentiates itself since it has a weekly schedule to work with.

I don't particularly see how the weekly schedule might help differentiate the two besides the fact that Bozebeats will be able to get through more content. The organization or what not will be introduced next chapter and we'll get moments where the MC shows off. This is very similar to BT. In order to distinguish itself, it either needs to make a drastic change or pull through with superior execution of "generic" story elements along with great characterization and interactions. I only hope that it doesn't feign substance using breakneck pacing.

 

[cody]

I don't particularly see how the weekly schedule might help differentiate the two besides the fact that Bozebeats will be able to get through more content. The organization or what not will be introduced next chapter and we'll get moments where the MC shows off. This is very similar to BT. In order to distinguish itself, it either needs to make a drastic change or pull through with superior execution of "generic" story elements along with great characterization and interactions. I only hope that it doesn't feign substance using breakneck pacing.

That's what I meant, it will get through more content.

 

[xAsum0x]

Looking at the background characters in the color pages I think interesting designs and tech are in store if it survives. It has tons of potential.

 

[Doughboy]

@Newkerzy one would hope. Just don't make them useless. On another note I thought the mother wolf's death was the best part, it was emotional and done well. Wasn't too soft, wasn't too edgy. Surprised me. If it's the same premise as KnY then at least the art is better from first glance. But Golem Hearts had good art too...

 

[Mawara]

I'm curious for the answers of my question, and I hope to hear what you think about this:

Which arcs in manga should a mangaka read, when they want to start their own shonen manga?
Like, not just copying but more like taking notes how to do shonen (or at least, a good shonen arc in general)?

Some people can guess my answers, but I would recommend for any new Mangaka to read the Zabuza Arc(Naruto), the Soul Society Arc(Bleach) and I would say either the Arlong Park or the Alabasta Arc from One Piece(maybe even both).

 

[SharkBait]

But Golem Hearts had good art too...

Golem Heart could have had better character design and could have felt like it wasnt a one piece knockoff. Every one piece knockoff is DoA.

 

[Doughboy]

You could just list what arcs were the most infamous or sold the most during their time period. I'd recommend Zabazu, Yorknew, Alabasta, Cell, Oracion Seis, FMA's first arc.

 

[TyVip]

Battle Shounen only answer

Enies Lobby in One PIece. It has everything: conflict, little bit of tragedy, resolve, world building, lead up to it.
Sennin fight in Houshin Engi
Houshin Engi and JoJo part 3, 5 maybe 4 if you want to go to villains of the week route.
Hunter Exam in Hunter x Hunter if you want to include obligatory tournament arc. It's what inspire Kishimoto to write that Chunin Exam arc.
Zabuza Arc, Anything that involve Shikamaru arc. First arc of FMA lead up to Scar or whatever his name is.
First arc of Dragonball and Yaiba for light hearted comedy shounen.

 

[Tanzo]

The new CG Saint Seiya remake from Netflix might be delayed to 2019 now.

 

[Avok]

I'm curious for the answers of my question, and I hope to hear what you think about this:

Which arcs in manga should a mangaka read, when they want to start their own shonen manga?
Like, not just copying but more like taking notes how to do shonen (or at least, a good shonen arc in general)?

Some people can guess my answers, but I would recommend for any new Mangaka to read the Zabuza Arc(Naruto), the Soul Society Arc(Bleach) and I would say either the Arlong Park or the Alabasta Arc from One Piece(maybe even both).

The Kyoto arc in Rurouni Kenshin.
The whole Pain Arc, including Jiraiya stuff. It shows what to do, and absolutely what not do to torwards the end, but still, one of the best shonen arcs ever.

 

[cody]

I don't think a mangaka should just read a set of arcs from some shounen manga, a person that wants to become a mangaka should read as much manga as possible, from all demographics and genres from all kinds of time periods.

Edit: Remember how in Bakuman one of the MC's had Ashita no Joe as their favorite manga.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Which arcs in manga should a mangaka read, when they want to start their own shonen manga?
Like, not just copying but more like taking notes how to do shonen (or at least, a good shonen arc in general)?

The Cell arc in Dragonball not necessarily because it was "good" but witnessing Akira Toriyama essentially write himself in and out of a corner through the span 7 volumes is a feat to behold. Being a mangaka is hard and you essentially have to juggle writing and drawing a story by yourself and if you're working for a weekly manga publication like Jump you also have to sustain your readers interest to keep your work alive but occasionally you'll wind up getting sidetrack and forgetting your pace thus hitting a corner, the reason why Akira Toriyama is a legend is because he made a career just by winging it through all his works because his 1# priority was to entertain readers first and foremost and the Cell arc is a prime example of what happens when you're writing a story as you go along rather than planning it. In most cases doing this will make the story gradually fall apart like so many other of his colleagues and proteges suffered from (Kishimoto, Kubo, Mashima, Oh Great!, etc.) but Toriyama did the opposite and kept tacking on more and more until he came up with something resembling something of a narrative so in short he improvised and tied together a plot that gave us some of the most iconic and entertaining moments in the entire series while also sticking with the franchise's core "anything can happen" mentality that's kept it strong for years on end. As a mangaka is always good to expect for your story to not go as planned as you go on, you may change your mind or reader/editorial input might influence you which isn't a bad thing but there's a talent to improvising your story that not a lot of mangaka have.

 

[Avok]

I agree. Android/Cell arc is the perfect example of a mangaka not knowing what the fuck is going on but everything working in the end. In the last part he managed to tie in some early stuff with some nice character development in Goku and Gohan. It's my favorite arc in Dragon Ball for the same reason.

Dragon Ball manga just flows so well, everything was written on the go but the story is always moving smoothly. You can devour volumes and volumes and not get tired.

 

[iceemperor]

I'm curious for the answers of my question, and I hope to hear what you think about this:

Which arcs in manga should a mangaka read, when they want to start their own shonen manga?
Like, not just copying but more like taking notes how to do shonen (or at least, a good shonen arc in general)?

Some people can guess my answers, but I would recommend for any new Mangaka to read the Zabuza Arc(Naruto), the Soul Society Arc(Bleach) and I would say either the Arlong Park or the Alabasta Arc from One Piece(maybe even both).

If anything, "taking notes on how to do shounen" is probably the main reason why we have so many "generic", forgettable shounen manga. Mangaka, especially this current generation that grew up on OP, Naruto, Bleach, etc and have also read past classics like DB, FoTN, Saint Seiya, etc, have absorbed all of this. Even if a mangaka is somehow able to stay away from these series and be "pure", they will still have read newer stories like Haikyuu, AssClass, Heroaca, etc, who all almost derive from these older manga. That's the problem. By reading certain "recommended shounen manga arcs", you end up rehashing the same shounen elements over and over again until you end up with a shallow story.

New mangaka should really focus on just learning what makes for a good story in general. They should study classic literature and screenplay writing. They should learn how to write good dialogue and how to evoke certain emotions in readers. All of these are used in every story. One thing I've found is that the label of "shounen manga" is actually rather broad. Its more that mangaka and readers in general and maybe even editors limit themselves to a certain image of what it should be. I myself am also probably guilty of this. Its why we get so blown away with series like Neverland and HxH. They do things that are "un-shounen-like". Neverland is even advertised as "un-Jump-like". This surprises us and we get excited for these stories. Not to say "traditional" shounen is bad as people still like series like Heroaca and BC however, new mangaka should really just study what makes for a good story or arc in general.

Toriyama didn't even read manga when he submitted a one-shot for an award the first time. Same goes for Torishima, yet they were able to create Dr. Slump and DB.

 

[101nemesis]

If anything, "taking notes on how to do shounen" is probably the main reason why we have so many "generic", forgettable shounen manga. Mangaka, especially this current generation that grew up on OP, Naruto, Bleach, etc and have also read past classics like DB, FoTN, Saint Seiya, etc, have absorbed all of this. Even if a mangaka is somehow able to stay away from these series and be "pure", they will still have read newer stories like Haikyuu, AssClass, Heroaca, etc, who all almost derive from these older manga. That's the problem. By reading certain "recommended shounen manga arcs", you end up rehashing the same shounen elements over and over again until you end up with a shallow story.

New mangaka should really focus on just learning what makes for a good story in general. They should study classic literature and screenplay writing. They should learn how to write good dialogue and how to evoke certain emotions in readers. All of these are used in every story. One thing I've found is that the label of "shounen manga" is actually rather broad. Its more that mangaka and readers in general and maybe even editors limit themselves to a certain image of what it should be. I myself am also probably guilty of this. Its why we get so blown away with series like Neverland and HxH. They do things that are "un-shounen-like". Neverland is even advertised as "un-Jump-like". This surprises us and we get excited for these stories. Not to say "traditional" shounen is bad as people still like series like Heroaca and BC however, new mangaka should really just study what makes for a good story or arc in general.

Toriyama didn't even read manga when he submitted a one-shot for an award the first time. Same goes for Torishima, yet they were able to create Dr. Slump and DB.

Thing is though, un-shounen like manga are a risky gamble for both the mangaka and the magazine. Sure, it works with things like TPN and HxH but even those have so many shounen aspects to it. HxH especially, it sure tries to be inventive but it still remains very much shounen. But how often do we get series that are successful despite trying new things that are un-shounen?
I'd say its more safe for a new mangaka to try the old method even if its too cliche because that still sells, clearly.

 

[TyVip]

New mangaka should really focus on just learning what makes for a good story in general. They should study classic literature and screenplay writing. They should learn how to write good dialogue and how to evoke certain emotions in readers. All of these are used in every story. One thing I've found is that the label of "shounen manga" is actually rather broad. Its more that mangaka and readers in general and maybe even editors limit themselves to a certain image of what it should be. I myself am also probably guilty of this. Its why we get so blown away with series like Neverland and HxH. They do things that are "un-shounen-like". Neverland is even advertised as "un-Jump-like". This surprises us and we get excited for these stories. Not to say "traditional" shounen is bad as people still like series like Heroaca and BC however, new mangaka should really just study what makes for a good story or arc in general.

Toriyama didn't even read manga when he submitted a one-shot for an award the first time. Same goes for Torishima, yet they were able to create Dr. Slump and DB.

Part of this is why i'm kinda excited to see what Ace Age will bring to the table. If Act Age is truly a film, and it manages to bring the "drama/film" to life just like Your Lie in April with music, it will be really really good. Since it's not new to make a play/movie-ish in a high school setting romcom manga, but a manga that devolve all in a film department is rather new.

edit: it's a film manga.

"ACT-AGE centers on a certain young woman and a genius director who meet at an audition for rookie actresses."

The last one that involve a film/drama stuff was Koisome Moijji and that one was boo boo