Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2018] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[ChocoBar9]

I wouldn't call HxH un-shounen like it very much has all the basis of a shounen manga from training arcs, tournament arcs, adventure, friendship etc. What Togashi does is take everything a step further with those same aspects to give you something completely different from your expectations (How much are you willing to go for "friendship"? Will you perhaps kill yourself and everyone around you? How much are you willing to attain "victory"? Are you willing to sacrifice your very being or sanity?) and this will seem very un-shounen like from a perspective of a person who reads nothing but shounen manga but edgy for new readers and not necessarily beyond the boundaries of other shounen manga. Death Note is the best example of an un-shounen like manga that reached wide-spread popularity and acclaim ever its still surprising how a manga like that ran and Jump (during what was their creativity bankrupt era) and was met with such huge response from readers that it didn't get instantly canned for being too boring for younger readers.

 

[iceemperor]

Thing is though, un-shounen like manga are a risky gamble for both the mangaka and the magazine. Sure, it works with things like TPN and HxH but even those have so many shounen aspects to it. HxH especially, it sure tries to be inventive but it still remains very much shounen. But how often do we get series that are successful despite trying new things that are un-shounen?
I'd say its more safe for a new mangaka to try the old method even if its too cliche because that still sells, clearly.

Regardless of how risky it is, its a necessary gamble to take if you want to stand out in the thousands of manga that are currently published every month. Jump's speciality is that its "volatile" enough that they will allow almost any genre. That's why we have Kimetsu no Yaiba currently placing in the top 5 every week and making itself a flagship, though in a niche way, of the magazine. There are of course plenty of manga that have gambled and lost and gotten cancelled but the possibility to succeed is higher in Jump given the bigger readership and exposure. If you can stand out and write a good story, your story will sell, even if not immediately. That's big for Jump because they won't cancel you if your questionnaire results are good even if you don't sell particularly well. Then they will do their advertising campaigns to raise sales.

 

[ChocoBar9]

I always find the argument that its "too much of a risk" unfounded upon especially when you consider how many manga that follow the traditional shounen formula get cancelled every year while last year alone the manga that made it past the chopping block are those considered nontraditional (Neverland, Dr. Stone and Kimitsu). You just have to make a story that stands out and people won't care if you're rehashing or if you're completely original.

 

[101nemesis]

So I just read Bozebeats and at the very least, the art is fantastic. Generic, sure. But well done and detailed. I'll read this solely for the art if this is the quality every week, which I have doubts about.
The story was alright, protagonist is meh. But he is CLEARLY meant for people like Shark. Like, you guys could literally just live off this one chapter alone.

I always find the argument that its "too much of a risk" unfounded upon especially when you consider how many manga that follow the traditional shounen formula get cancelled every year while last year alone the manga that made it past the chopping block are those considered nontraditional (Neverland, Dr. Stone and Kimitsu). You just have to make a story that stands out and people won't care if you're rehashing or if you're completely original.

Kimetsu is a shounen battle manga. There is nothing so different about it aside from the brutal first few chapters. It's doing the usual stuff in from a different approach at times but that doesn't make it non-traditional. Dr. Stone and TPN make sense in your argument though. But again, how many non-traditional hits have we had in the past 10 years? Genuinely asking.

 

[ChocoBar9]

You're right about Kimetsu being traditional shounen much like HxH being a product that couldn't have been written by anyone else and taken the extreme approach to the formula but its still very much traditional.

Kimetsu is a shounen battle manga. There is nothing so different about it aside from the brutal first few chapters. It's doing the usual stuff in from a different approach at times but that doesn't make it non-traditional. Dr. Stone and TPN make sense in your argument though. But again, how many non-traditional hits have we had in the past 10 years? Genuinely asking.

From the top of my head excluding TPN and Dr. Stone; AssClass, Medaka Box, Souma, Bakuman and Sket Dance. Yeah not that much.

 

[TyVip]

But Sket Dance is a poor man Gintama take place in the modern world according to Gintoki .

 

[ChocoBar9]

Well there's not another MC that knows his Jump manga better than Gintoki so it must be the truth.

 

[SharkBait]

But Sket Dance is a poor man Gintama take place in the modern world according to Gintoki .

Thats an offensive post. SketDan is much better than Gintama.

 

[Halloween]

Anecdotally, I've noticed the last time people overwhelming praised a new series' artwork was with MHA.

Hopefully Bozebeats follows a similar path.

 

[savethecat]

On one end Bozebeats art is really well drawn and great.

It’s just that personally I appreciate a unique and original art style over well drawn. With MHA it’s the best of both worlds because the art is great and Horikoshi has his signature style.
And all Kimetsu doesn’t have the best art, I love the unique art style.

My gripe with Bozebeats art is that the style meshes in with a ton of other manga’s art style

 

[SharkBait]

My gripe with Bozebeats art is that the style meshes in with a ton of other manga’s art style

You cant say that and not give examples.

 

[Halloween]

It's not just the great art, it's also the character designs. The demon tree thing stood out especially.

 

[TyVip]

It's not just the great art, it's also the character designs. The demon tree thing stood out especially.

thought you wouldn't read a new series until their first ranking . Jk Jk.

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On a side note, i found scatter pieces of what suppose to be a one shot-ish for Act Age (not complete chapter, just couple images). Asagaya Geijutsu Kōkō Eizōka e Yōkoso (阿佐ヶ谷芸術高校映像科へようこそ). For some reason the art in the "one shot" was really unpolished, they look like sketches.

edit: Wow thanks razers

 

[xAsum0x]

On one end Bozebeats art is really well drawn and great.

It’s just that personally I appreciate a unique and original art style over well drawn. With MHA it’s the best of both worlds because the art is great and Horikoshi has his signature style.
And all Kimetsu doesn’t have the best art, I love the unique art style.

My gripe with Bozebeats art is that the style meshes in with a ton of other manga’s art style

What? How is this a gripe lol

 

[razerxs]

On a side note, i found scatter pieces of what suppose to be a one shot-ish for Act Age (not complete chapter, just couple images). Asagaya Geijutsu Kōkō Eizōka e Yōkoso (阿佐ヶ谷芸術高校映像科へようこそ). For some reason the art in the "one shot" was really unpolished, they look like sketches.

There was a 'name' contest for aspiring mangaka who couldn't draw. The author (Matsukita ) managed to place with this.
Then he was introduced to an artist (Usazaki). Their final oneshot is here.

 

[Halloween]

thought you wouldn't read a new series until their first ranking . Jk Jk.

Ordinarily I wouldn't have. I was sitting in my car bored out of my mind and decided to read it after several friends of mine all praised it.

 

[Koen]

I really don’t understand the bozebeats hype over here.

The first chapter did not have a proper story. And something that disturbed me a lot was how the art was sometimes closer to a shojou/josei manga than a shounen manga.

Bozebeats does not belong in WSJ.

 

[Tamil]

#BringBackShimabu

We need a true battle shonen.

 

[Halloween]

#BringBackShimabu

We need a true battle shonen.

Trust me, I wouldn't mind. I doubt he does action again, though. Or hell, I doubt he works in WSJ again.

 

[Scruffy8642]

Do you think Shudan is worth reading all the way through even after it's unfortunate fate?

Absolutely. Almost all of Yokota’s stories are short anyway, so he is really good at wrapping them up, even when cancelled. Shudan has been translated up until chapter 27 and it doesnt even feel like its been cancelled, more just a natural progression of events for a short story. Even cancelled, its well above any other series that came out in 2017, including the three that have been successful.

Just read Bozebeats too. It certainly did some things well. Namely, its what a first chapter should be - a good introduction to the series that’s all wrapped up in 1 chapter and leads on to events that expand the story. This is nothing particularly noteworthy, but new Jump series seem to have abandoned this idea of a first chapter so we haven’t really seen anything like it since Neverland. And then the obvious character and monster designs along with his art composition are pretty great.

Aside those two things, it didn’t do much for me. It lacked impact and interesting characters. The concept also falls a bit flat. I actually think this kind of thing wouldve worked best as a 2nd or 3rd chapter as a flashback. The first couldve done more world building and set the scene for the series, before proceeding into a solid, character origin flashback.

While it was a very conclusive first chapter, it didn’t really tell us anything. I also feel like the death of the mother wolf should have been a much bigger deal than it was and should’ve left us shocked at the end of the chapter. Just thinking to other successes like Neverland and MHA, both had that shock factor where the series manages to punch you in the face, whether it be through feels, or cruel reality. This was set up to be the equivalent of that, but due to showing none of their relationship, it ended up meaning nothing to us. The colour pages being unrelated to what followed certainly felt disjointed too, and goes in hand with what I said before about how this probably should’nt have been the first chapter.

Overall, it was better crafted than most of the crap we see, but it still wasn’t executed all that well. It left me with no real desire to continue reading. Others can say what they want, but Im still proud to be going down with the sinking ship that is Golem Hearts (Granted, this had the better first chapter)!