Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2018] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[WesKR]

BozeMononoke was decent.

 

[Xzone]

Piccolo vs Goku battles are a good example on how to write a battle, Toriyama count a good story(piccolo losing because goku still have his arm, and piccolo jr breaking the arm later).
This is the biggest problem in nekketsu, some author don't know how to make a story.

Anecdotally, I've noticed the last time people overwhelming praised a new series' artwork was with MHA.

Hopefully Bozebeats follows a similar path.

People overhyped and liked condor's art more than MHA in the First chapters.

 

[Newkerzy]

If anything, "taking notes on how to do shounen" is probably the main reason why we have so many "generic", forgettable shounen manga. Mangaka, especially this current generation that grew up on OP, Naruto, Bleach, etc and have also read past classics like DB, FoTN, Saint Seiya, etc, have absorbed all of this. Even if a mangaka is somehow able to stay away from these series and be "pure", they will still have read newer stories like Haikyuu, AssClass, Heroaca, etc, who all almost derive from these older manga. That's the problem. By reading certain "recommended shounen manga arcs", you end up rehashing the same shounen elements over and over again until you end up with a shallow story.

New mangaka should really focus on just learning what makes for a good story in general. They should study classic literature and screenplay writing. They should learn how to write good dialogue and how to evoke certain emotions in readers. All of these are used in every story. One thing I've found is that the label of "shounen manga" is actually rather broad. Its more that mangaka and readers in general and maybe even editors limit themselves to a certain image of what it should be. I myself am also probably guilty of this. Its why we get so blown away with series like Neverland and HxH. They do things that are "un-shounen-like". Neverland is even advertised as "un-Jump-like". This surprises us and we get excited for these stories. Not to say "traditional" shounen is bad as people still like series like Heroaca and BC however, new mangaka should really just study what makes for a good story or arc in general.

Toriyama didn't even read manga when he submitted a one-shot for an award the first time. Same goes for Torishima, yet they were able to create Dr. Slump and DB.

Speaking of MHA, IMO it's even harder to take something old and present it into something refreshing and feels like it's a new thing. Horikoshi's take on shonen tropes is probably one of the more inspiring ones. Generally MHA's take on the shonen category is nothing new, but it clearly has its own distinctive flavor that separates it from the rest of other shonen mangas that preceded it and the ones that are running right now.

 

[savethecat]

What? How is this a gripe lol

My favorite type of manga and art in general are ones that have a unique art style.

For Exp. A1 Pictures have more on model character designs, but they have “the anime look”.
Where as studio a Trigger has cartoony, sometimes off model designs, but their art is immediately recognizable.

My point is I don’t the art style of Bozebeats is immediately recognizable. And the MC doesn’t really have a stand out look either.


Also, I’m not saying this is a legit issue. I’m saying it’s a nit pick due to my personal preferences

 

[Mawara]

Read the latest chapter of Kimetsu No Yaiba. Yeaaaaah, I can now see why people start saying the mangaka may be a little bit sadistic.
... not that I judge!

I don't think a mangaka should just read a set of arcs from some shounen manga, a person that wants to become a mangaka should read as much manga as possible, from all demographics and genres from all kinds of time periods.

Well, that is certainly true, I just had in mind, even manga I dont like that much anymore(Naruto and Bleach), there are still arcs in those, I didnt just enjoy a lot, I wouldnt mind defending/justifying them, because I still think. they deserve it. ^^

If anything, "taking notes on how to do shounen" is probably the main reason why we have so many "generic", forgettable shounen manga. Mangaka, especially this current generation that grew up on OP, Naruto, Bleach, etc and have also read past classics like DB, FoTN, Saint Seiya, etc, have absorbed all of this. Even if a mangaka is somehow able to stay away from these series and be "pure", they will still have read newer stories like Haikyuu, AssClass, Heroaca, etc, who all almost derive from these older manga. That's the problem. By reading certain "recommended shounen manga arcs", you end up rehashing the same shounen elements over and over again until you end up with a shallow story.

New mangaka should really focus on just learning what makes for a good story in general. They should study classic literature and screenplay writing. They should learn how to write good dialogue and how to evoke certain emotions in readers. All of these are used in every story. One thing I've found is that the label of "shounen manga" is actually rather broad. Its more that mangaka and readers in general and maybe even editors limit themselves to a certain image of what it should be. I myself am also probably guilty of this. Its why we get so blown away with series like Neverland and HxH. They do things that are "un-shounen-like". Neverland is even advertised as "un-Jump-like". This surprises us and we get excited for these stories. Not to say "traditional" shounen is bad as people still like series like Heroaca and BC however, new mangaka should really just study what makes for a good story or arc in general.

I can not say much to this. Especially, because after 10 years of being a writer I still do researches and studies how to improve my writing, how I can improve the tension in my plot, while dialogues keep feeling natural and so on.
I just have the philosophy that by good stories you'll get inspired, while bad stories should warn you.
And analysing certain arcs(or books, what I also do), I can not only learn to become better in the long run, but also learn how to appreciate these stories much more.
Though I am thankful for the answers of all the other guys to my question, also thank you @iceemperor for this reminder, never to chain oneself to one's inspirations.

 

[ShenGao]

Read the latest chapter of Kimetsu No Yaiba. Yeaaaaah, I can now see why people start saying the mangaka may be a little bit sadistic.
... not that I judge!

Like i said, Gotouge is showing her gore fetish. The next fight against an Upper Moon Demon will probably involve burning humans alive, ripping out eyes with finger nails and strangling someone with their own intestine.

 

[cody]

Like i said, Gotouge is showing her gore fetish. The next fight against an Upper Moon Demon will probably involve burning humans alive, ripping out eyes with finger nails and strangling someone with their own intestine.

The less childly friendly, the better, because it decreases the chances of Toei getting the anime and censoring the shit out of it! xD

I love it, this is a manga about slaying demons, so showing all the gore and messed up shit is great. Things will obviously will get much worse and I like this impeding sense of hopelessness and doom the main characters will always have to go up against, stakes are high, this is the tragic life of someone that decides to become a demon slayer and I'm not getting off this wild ride.

 

[ShenGao]

The less childly friendly, the better, because it decreases the chances of Toei getting the anime and censoring the shit out of it! xD

Not really. Toriko was as much, if not even more, brutal than Kimetsu and Toei still grabbed it to censor it beyond redemption.

 

[cody]

Not really. Toriko was as much, if not even more, brutal than Kimetsu and Toei still grabbed it to censor it beyond redemption.

Yeah, but the method of killing demons in Kimetsu is a pretty brutal one and the demons mostly have humanoid shapes, so censoring

Spoiler

humanoid shaped demons getting decapitated all the time, when it's a crucial part of the manga would be stupid

. Would they censor out a fundamental aspect of the manga?

Toriko does seem to be quite brutal, but it looks like Toei had the wrong approach and really looked at it as a grand scale adventure, which is unfortunate. Kimetsu doesn't have the grand adventure aspect.

Meh, whatever, m-maybe Kimetsu will be spared xD. I hope so...

 

[Scruffy8642]

Toriko is one of the more gory series to come out of Jump in the last decade. Toei just replaced it all with white fluid or nothing at all and it was problem solved.

 

[Halloween]

People overhyped and liked condor's art more than MHA in the First chapters.

Is condor a Jump series?

Also, as an aside, do we know the age of Bozebeats' mangaka?

 

[razerxs]

Shoseki Ranking 1/8-1/14
1 The Promised Neverland #7
11 The Disastrous Life of Saiki K #24
18 Yuragi-sou no Yuuna-san #9
22 Boys Over Flowers Next Season #8
43 The Promised Neverland #1
44 The Promised Neverland #6
47 The Promised Neverland #2
50 The Promised Neverland #3
52 The Promised Neverland #5
54 The Promised Neverland #4
65 Hinomaru Zumo #18
96 Koro-sensei Q! #3
106 Juuni Taisen #2
110 Touken Ranbu: Hanamaru #2
276 Shudan #2

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 16, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 16, 2018 ---

Is condor a Jump series?

Mitsukubi Condor was a recent but short lived series.

 

[Halloween]

Shoseki Ranking 1/8-1/14
1 The Promised Neverland #7
11 The Disastrous Life of Saiki K #24
18 Yuragi-sou no Yuuna-san #9
22 Boys Over Flowers Next Season #8
43 The Promised Neverland #1
44 The Promised Neverland #6
47 The Promised Neverland #2
50 The Promised Neverland #3
52 The Promised Neverland #5
54 The Promised Neverland #4
65 Hinomaru Zumo #18
96 Koro-sensei Q! #3
106 Juuni Taisen #2
110 Touken Ranbu: Hanamaru #2
276 Shudan #2

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 16, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 16, 2018 ---

Mitsukubi Condor was a recent but short lived series.

Okay, I'm not seeing anything special with that artstyle. Not bad by any means, but nothing that surpasses MHA in my opinion.

 

[Tamil]

Yeah, but the method of killing demons in Kimetsu is a pretty brutal one and the demons mostly have humanoid shapes, so censoring

Spoiler

humanoid shaped demons getting decapitated all the time, when it's a crucial part of the manga would be stupid

. Would they censor out a fundamental aspect of the manga?

Toriko does seem to be quite brutal, but it looks like Toei had the wrong approach and really looked at it as a grand scale adventure, which is unfortunate. Kimetsu doesn't have the grand adventure aspect.

Meh, whatever, m-maybe Kimetsu will be spared xD. I hope so...

Toriko IS brutal, very brutal, you can google search it for yourself. It makes Kimetsu look like a joke with the amount of blood/gore Toriko had. I think the last WSJ title that was very brutal was Vento Aureo (part 5 JoJo) but even then wasn't as brutal as Toriko. There's a reason why the fandom got triggered when Toriko got censored to shit.

From the japanese scans I've seen of Takeshi, it looks pretty brutal at times. I would rank it like this in terms of gore from what I read at least

North Star > Toriko > HxH/JJBA > Kimetsu

I think Toei won't get their hands on Kimetsu either way but that's my wishful thinking and I would imagine they would want to focus Kitaro.

 

[SharkBait]

Where the shudan buyers at. Id have bought Shudan day 1. Go soccer.

 

[cody]

Toriko IS brutal, very brutal, you can google search it for yourself. It makes Kimetsu look like a joke with the amount of blood/gore Toriko had. I think the last WSJ title that was very brutal was Vento Aureo (part 5 JoJo) but even then wasn't as brutal as Toriko. There's a reason why the fandom got triggered when Toriko got censored to shit.

From the japanese scans I've seen of Takeshi, it looks pretty brutal at times. I would rank it like this in terms of gore from what I read at least

North Star > Toriko > HxH/JJBA > Kimetsu

I think Toei won't get their hands on Kimetsu either way but that's my wishful thinking and I would imagine they would want to focus Kitaro.

Yeah, I actually did do that regarding Toriko and the more I saw the more I wanted to read it since it looks amazing and like a huge dose of awesome manliness and badassery, but it's quite long so it will have to wait.

Well, all we can do is have wishful thinking. Toei also have the Saint Seiya anime with females as mc's. And possibly HZ but I really kind of hope that HZ somehow dodges Toei, that would be really nice, I'd like to see I.G or Madhouse or both really bring out the best of HZ in anime form.

Another thing is, Toei did do a Kitaro anime in 2008 for Noitamina and it only had like 11 episodes, so this could be short as well? I wanted to say that, but then I saw they also had an 100 episode Kitaro anime that ran for 100 episodes in 2007. So hopefully Toei do stay busy with it for a very long time. xD

 

[Tamil]

Yeah, I actually did do that regarding Toriko and the more I saw the more I wanted to read it since it looks amazing and like a huge dose of awesome manliness and badassery, but it's quite long so it will have to wait.

Well, all we can do is have wishful thinking. Toei also have the Saint Seiya anime with females as mc's. And possibly HZ but I really kind of hope that HZ somehow dodges Toei, that would be really nice, I'd like to see I.G or Madhouse or both really bring out the best of HZ in anime form.

Another thing is, Toei did do a Kitaro anime in 2008 for Noitamina and it only had like 11 episodes, so this could be short as well? I wanted to say that, but then I saw they also had an 100 episode Kitaro anime that ran for 100 episodes in 2007. So hopefully Toei do stay busy with it for a very long time. xD

Kitaro could be a long runner and it's not impossible for Toei.

If Toei brought the same staff that did Mononoke for KnY then I'm all up for Toei but that seems unlikely.

 

[cody]

Kitaro could be a long runner and it's not impossible for Toei.

If Toei brought the same staff that did Mononoke for KnY then I'm all up for Toei but that seems unlikely.

That's never going to happen, regarding the Mononoke staff, I would love to see it happen, but the director seems to have left Toei, he's probably a freelancer, his most recent work was the second season of Gatchaman crowds, which is a really cool show that I really liked, it was made by Tatsunoko Production, but the overall staff was special for Mononoke and such a long time has passed, the same magic won't be recreated, especially under Toei, I mean, it won't happen unless some kind of miracle unleashes or some shit xD.

Ah, I love and hate the suspense until an inevitable adaptation gets announced, what will be the fate of this fun cute manga that I'm invested into from WSJ, will it get a good treatment or get shit on, oh, the tension... I really hate this randomness and how we can't do much about it, ugh.

Well, Toei are busy with DB Super and they're rather focus on that since it's a guaranteed success instead of trying out new WSJ properties, World Trigger's anime didn't exactly do that amazingly and Dragon Ball Super is a safe pick for a long runner. Or maybe that's my wishful thinking. Then they always have OP and Precure. They have the Saint Seiya girl edition thing plus the CG saint seiya.
If Kitaro is a long runner, maybe WSJ manga will be safe for a while from the deadly hands of hacks at Toei.
Seriously, I'd love to see HZ evade Toei, since with Toei the bar will be set really low(basically the minimum) and unless things go really well and a dedicated staff pops up, Toei will disappoint in some aspects for sure. I remember I saw snippets of a few random World Trigger episodes and my fucking God, just how terrifying can Toei be.

 

[shoyoboyo]

Careful with with the anti-Toei posts, or else the local Toei shill will pop up again.

 

[cody]

Careful with with the anti-Toei posts, or else the local Toei shill will pop up again.

I wouldn't have known what you're talking about since I haven't been here for that long, but I was randomly looking through the 2017 WSJ thread yesterday and I happened to find what you're talking about. It was funny to see a whole different Kimetsu no Yaiba anime discussion earlier in the year.

edit: I said the 2016 WSJ thread, but I meant the 2017 one