Discussion Estimating Characters PL

[MrSchmitty7]

Meliodas's magic is Full Counter. He can control his Assault Mode just fine ( he did that in the past in his glory days as stated by Estarossa when he showed his awakened powers ), the DK is the external factor that stole his emotions.

Escanor is different, whether he is calm or angry, that doesn't matter, he is passively controlled by Sunshine. Meliodas is totally a different case yet again.

Again, it really isn't, why he can use Sunshine power ( that you call like a regular magic ) at night? If it is like any regular magic? So, stop comparing that grace with regular magic.
Lol what? Jericho trained and awaken her power after being affected emotionally, she didn't awaken her power when she was a child like Escanor.

Sunshine can work like a magic ( like Tornado ) but it is still different than regular magic due to his origin.

Again, back to Danafor, Mel was taken over by his own magic whenever he got mad. Just because Escanor has it in a different way doesn’t make it different. Now you’re trying to say that because Escanor’s control is different from Mel’s it must be special. Fact is both can’t control their power in their own way. It doesnt make sense to make them identical though. Also, the fact that he cant use it at night has nothing to do with control, because it’s dependent on the sun that’s the nature of it.

Jericho awakened her power after her brother died. She got mad one day and then it just appeared. She never trained because she believed she didn’t have special magic.it was in the side story

Look if you can provide manga information that lists the distinction between graces and magic I’ll listen, but until then just saying “supreme deity” is getting is nowhere. I can do it for commandments

 

[Tragicdeath]

Escanor's power does not necessarily increase at the rate you suggest. I maintain that escanor bulking up at different points in the day rather than always at the same time of the day is evidence that escanor suppresses his power most of the time and his bulking up at insanely convenient times is simply evidence that he stops suppressing his power. Against izraff he bulked up near dawn, against estarosa he bulked up at 11:30 and against meliodas he bulked up mere minutes before noon. Not to mention that he doesn't bulk up every day. The rate which you are suggesting is what we saw against galan... Which would be the slowest possible increase in PL for escanor at that point in the day given how much power he was already using (it doesn't seem like supressing his power after having unleashed it is an option).

But Im just saying if you come to think of it thats the closest thing weve got from the moment he fought Galan 50060 early sunrise to 114000 @ 1130am with a boost of 64k which logically proves factor rate of 5 x 60 x 30. I know you have your own thoughts which I respect but any prove to support it? That Escanor is holding back his power and eratic boosts.

 

[sobreno]

Again, back to Danafor, Mel was taken over by his own magic whenever he got mad. Just because Escanor has it in a different way doesn’t make it different. Now you’re trying to say that because Escanor’s control is different from Mel’s it must be special. Fact is both can’t control their power in their own way. It doesnt make sense to make them identical though. Also, the fact that he cant use it at night has nothing to do with control, because it’s dependent on the sun that’s the nature of it.

Jericho awakened her power after her brother died. She got mad one day and then it just appeared. She never trained because she believed she didn’t have special magic.

That is the point of their difference. Danafor Meliodas is just a shadow of the real Meliodas, he can't control his darkness, he is more pathetic than his little brothers lol.
That shows how weak he becomes, but he slowly learns to control that form against Galand and after the trial in Istar, better against King.

It doesn't matter because Meliodas's power isn't from a deity, it is from himself, huge difference with Escanor here. You are comparing apple and orange.

Escanor can't control his power, same with Mael, both are forced to go from weak to strong cycle with this grace.

Jericho did train, how she becomes an apprentice holy knight without zero training? That doesn't make sense.

 

[kkck]

But Im just saying if you come to think of it thats the closest thing weve got from the moment he fought Galan 50060 early sunrise to 114000 @ 1130am with a boost of 64k which logically proves factor rate of 5 x 60 x 30. I know you have your own thoughts which I respect but any prove to support it? That Escanor is holding back his power and eratic boosts.

Well, the evidence would be that escanor's appearance and power is not constant every day. He clearly does not turn into the one every day. He clearly does not bulk up at the same time every day and it is fairly clear that he in fact does not bulk up every day at all. The sins rarely see escanor when he takes a different tone and were unfamiliar with the one altogether even though they even went on a vacation together 10 years back. Basically they saw each other every day. Take the meeting between escanor and ludociel. This was early in the morning as far as we know. But he looks nothing like he looked like when he fought izraff even though that was also early in the morning, perhaps even earlier. It simply makes more sense that escanor actively suppresses his power than him buffing up at specific times. Simply because escanor in fact does not buff up at specific times of the day. His buffed up form is simply his unrestrained power at any point of the day.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 28, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 28, 2018 ---

Their power is incredible, yes, but that doesn’t mean we can say it’s special magic without having any proof. Chandler for instance can warp day to night, but his is just regular magic. Ban like the Demon King is immortal, but Ban just drank magical fairy water.

When I say I need to see something about Escanor that makes him different, I mean that I need to see something that is unique only to his grace. For example, only commandments can curse people by lying. So unless Escanor’s grace does something completely crazy I’m not gonna say it’s different. Because so far all we know from the graces is that they’re just OP magics. They haven’t done anything unique that a regular person hasn’t shown before. So far Escanor’s power is just something that’s op. Nothing more or less. It beat the purgatory fire because it’s stronger, and he beat Mel because he was stronger. That’s not ground breaking

Even breaking out of Melascula’s gloom cocoon (which we all thought was impossible) makes sense now because we have evidence instead of just hype.

Proof? them being parts of a gods power is more than proof enough. As far as I can tell this is not even up for debate... What is up for debate is whether the demon king is immortal though. He wants to pass his throne to meliodas and is currently in purgatory, neither seems to be stuff that a true immortal would do.

But... there is still the bit about meliodas having the ability to train to become demon king. That would mean the gods themselves are basically just insanely powerful people, nothing more and nothing less. Just having a shit ton of strength gives them their life bending abilities. Does that mean they are not special? The whole point about graces is that they are special because they are pieces of the supreme goddess' insane power. Saying they aren't special completely ignores the entire context here.

 

[sobreno]

Well, the evidence would be that escanor's appearance and power is not constant every day. He clearly does not turn into the one every day. He clearly does not bulk up at the same time every day and it is fairly clear that he in fact does not bulk up every day at all. The sins rarely see escanor when he takes a different tone and were unfamiliar with the one altogether even though they even went on a vacation together 10 years back. Basically they saw each other every day. Take the meeting between escanor and ludociel. This was early in the morning as far as we know. But he looks nothing like he looked like when he fought izraff even though that was also early in the morning, perhaps even earlier. It simply makes more sense that escanor actively suppresses his power than him buffing up at specific times. Simply because escanor in fact does not buff up at specific times of the day. His buffed up form is simply his unrestrained power at any point of the day.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 28, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 28, 2018 ---

Proof? them being parts of a gods power is more than proof enough. As far as I can tell this is not even up for debate... What is up for debate is whether the demon king is immortal though. He wants to pass his throne to meliodas and is currently in purgatory, neither seems to be stuff that a true immortal would do.

But... there is still the bit about meliodas having the ability to train to become demon king. That would mean the gods themselves are basically just insanely powerful people, nothing more and nothing less. Just having a shit ton of strength gives them their life bending abilities. Does that mean they are not special? The whole point about graces is that they are special because they are pieces of the supreme goddess' insane power. Saying they aren't special completely ignores the entire context here.

It is Meliodas who is special here, it was stated again and again that he is the only one who can reach the throne of the DK. The DK is obsessed with him and his potential is another proof of that.

They are Gods, the narration is clear about that, it is repeated several times in the manga and Meliodas call them like that too. They are immortals, the DK granted immortality to Meliodas, it doesn't make sense that he isn't immortal himself lmao.

 

[kkck]

That is the point of their difference. Danafor Meliodas is just a shadow of the real Meliodas, he can't control his darkness, he is more pathetic than his little brothers lol.
That shows how weak he becomes, but he slowly learns to control that form against Galand and after the trial in Istar, better against King.

It doesn't matter because Meliodas's power isn't from a deity, it is from himself, huge difference with Escanor here. You are comparing apple and orange.

Escanor can't control his power, same with Mael, both are forced to go from weak to strong cycle with this grace.

Jericho did train, how she becomes an apprentice holy knight without zero training? That doesn't make sense.

Danafor meliodas is definitely weak (he was basically 32k meliodas) however there is no reason for us to think meliodas at that point couldn't control his anger. If anything the manga makes the point that meliodas is in complete control of his anger. The training with the goddesses was worthless and, even in the best case scenario, a huge waste of time that resulted from merlin and the others completely misunderstanding mel's rage. When mel blew up danafor it wasn't because something similar to what happened at byzel went on. We could even make the point that what happened at byzel was a consequence of merlin taking mel's power since after recovering it he never had trouble with his demon mark again. Merlin did blow up danafor but it wasn't because he lost control of his darkness like he did in byzel. It was just a normal fit of rage.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 28, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 28, 2018 ---

It is Meliodas who is special here, it was stated again and again that he is the only one who can reach the throne of the DK. The DK is obsessed with him and his potential is another proof of that.

They are Gods, the narration is clear about that, it is repeated several times in the manga and Meliodas call them like that too. They are immortals, the DK granted immortality to Meliodas, it doesn't make sense that he isn't immortal himself lmao.

The demon king definitely wants mel to be demon king though I don't think that means he is literally the only one that can become it. I mean, if becoming demon king is plausible merely by simply training then we can't rule out zeldris or estarosa also being capable of training to attain that. We have even seen zeldris use the more advanced demon mark (though it doesn't seem he can do this regularly yet).

And yeah, they are gods but they are gods whose power can be matched by merely training.Their power is merely the result of PL. And why does the demon king being able to curse mel with immortality mean the demon king himself is immortal? Clearly there are limitations to the guy's power considering the demon king has been sealed within purgatory and the supreme goddess remains unaccounted for.

 

[sobreno]

Danafor meliodas is definitely weak (he was basically 32k meliodas) however there is no reason for us to think meliodas at that point couldn't control his anger. If anything the manga makes the point that meliodas is in complete control of his anger. The training with the goddesses was worthless and, even in the best case scenario, a huge waste of time that resulted from merlin and the others completely misunderstanding mel's rage. When mel blew up danafor it wasn't because something similar to what happened at byzel went on. We could even make the point that what happened at byzel was a consequence of merlin taking mel's power since after recovering it he never had trouble with his demon mark again. Merlin did blow up danafor but it wasn't because he lost control of his darkness like he did in byzel. It was just a normal fit of rage.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 28, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 28, 2018 ---

The demon king definitely wants mel to be demon king though I don't think that means he is literally the only one that can become it. I mean, if becoming demon king is plausible merely by simply training then we can't rule out zeldris or estarosa also being capable of training to attain that. We have even seen zeldris use the more advanced demon mark (though it doesn't seem he can do this regularly yet).

And yeah, they are gods but they are gods whose power can be matched by merely training.Their power is merely the result of PL. And why does the demon king being able to curse mel with immortality mean the demon king himself is immortal? Clearly there are limitations to the guy's power considering the demon king has been sealed within purgatory and the supreme goddess remains unaccounted for.

Lol what? Meliodas is stated to be the only one by everyone ( from every Clans lol ) since 3000 years. But Meliodas need the training to push that potential to that level.

Zeldoris himself realized when Meliodas overpowered them stating: " It is like Father said, Meliodas is truly... "

It is obvious that he is special, Meliodas is a different class than his brothers or any Demons, hence the DK's obsession with him. He values strength, power and potential before all.

Because that is logical since he grants immortality to someone. Pretty sure that is the SD that sealed him with the help of the others races and her own race.

 

[Kay3795]

Immortality is probably a small thing to the Gods. A Human went to Purgatory & quickly aged & died. Ban was specifically chosen to go confront the DK (risky & foolish idea) who supposedly holds Meliodas' Emotions in Purgatory because he's Immortal. The DK has essentially been confined to Purgatory for over a MILLION years.

Now if the Gods can somehow get their hands on Infinity then....​

 

[Tragicdeath]

Meliodas's magic is Full Counter. He can control his Assault Mode just fine ( he did that in the past in his glory days as stated by Estarossa when he showed his awakened powers ), the DK is the external factor that stole his emotions.

Escanor is different, whether he is calm or angry, that doesn't matter, he is passively controlled by Sunshine. Meliodas is totally a different case yet again.

Again, it really isn't, why he can use Sunshine power ( that you call like a regular magic ) at night? If it is like any regular magic? So, stop comparing that grace with regular magic.
What? Jericho trained and awaken her power after being affected emotionally, she didn't awaken her power when she was a child like Escanor.

Sunshine can work like a magic ( like Tornado ) but it is still different than regular magic due to his origin.

True. Escanor is controlled by sunshine that is why if you come to think of it the factor rate has been almost accurate boost every 30 minutes. But my question really is if you guys are suggesting his power is erratic maybe he have other power besides sunshine but that would be another story and h

Well, the evidence would be that escanor's appearance and power is not constant every day. He clearly does not turn into the one every day. He clearly does not bulk up at the same time every day and it is fairly clear that he in fact does not bulk up every day at all. The sins rarely see escanor when he takes a different tone and were unfamiliar with the one altogether even though they even went on a vacation together 10 years back. Basically they saw each other every day. Take the meeting between escanor and ludociel. This was early in the morning as far as we know. But he looks nothing like he looked like when he fought izraff even though that was also early in the morning, perhaps even earlier. It simply makes more sense that escanor actively suppresses his power than him buffing up at specific times. Simply because escanor in fact does not buff up at specific times of the day. His buffed up form is simply his unrestrained power at any point of the day.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 28, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 28, 2018 ---

Proof? them being parts of a gods power is more than proof enough. As far as I can tell this is not even up for debate... What is up for debate is whether the demon king is immortal though. He wants to pass his throne to meliodas and is currently in purgatory, neither seems to be stuff that a true immortal would do.

But... there is still the bit about meliodas having the ability to train to become demon king. That would mean the gods themselves are basically just insanely powerful people, nothing more and nothing less. Just having a shit ton of strength gives them their life bending abilities. Does that mean they are not special? The whole point about graces is that they are special because they are pieces of the supreme goddess' insane power. Saying they aren't special completely ignores the entire context here.

ah i see. I was expecting figures proving escanor holding his PL. but anyways, i guess he might be holding it.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

That is the point of their difference. Danafor Meliodas is just a shadow of the real Meliodas, he can't control his darkness, he is more pathetic than his little brothers lol.
That shows how weak he becomes, but he slowly learns to control that form against Galand and after the trial in Istar, better against King.

It doesn't matter because Meliodas's power isn't from a deity, it is from himself, huge difference with Escanor here. You are comparing apple and orange.

Escanor can't control his power, same with Mael, both are forced to go from weak to strong cycle with this grace.

Jericho did train, how she becomes an apprentice holy knight without zero training? That doesn't make sense.

It’s still a form of Mel that’s just weaker. I don’t see how the level of strength correlated to whether he has control of his emotions.

You keep saying that I’m comparing apples to oranges, but I need some manga info from manga pages that shows that graces do things that regular magics can or can’t

Also Jericho didn’t have to train to awaken her ice power the same way that Mel trained to get full counter. She had basic training. Even Hendrickson didn’t have to do much training. His power awoke out of fear

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 28, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 28, 2018 ---

Well, the evidence would be that escanor's appearance and power is not constant every day. He clearly does not turn into the one every day. He clearly does not bulk up at the same time every day and it is fairly clear that he in fact does not bulk up every day at all. The sins rarely see escanor when he takes a different tone and were unfamiliar with the one altogether even though they even went on a vacation together 10 years back. Basically they saw each other every day. Take the meeting between escanor and ludociel. This was early in the morning as far as we know. But he looks nothing like he looked like when he fought izraff even though that was also early in the morning, perhaps even earlier. It simply makes more sense that escanor actively suppresses his power than him buffing up at specific times. Simply because escanor in fact does not buff up at specific times of the day. His buffed up form is simply his unrestrained power at any point of the day.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 28, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 28, 2018 ---

Proof? them being parts of a gods power is more than proof enough. As far as I can tell this is not even up for debate... What is up for debate is whether the demon king is immortal though. He wants to pass his throne to meliodas and is currently in purgatory, neither seems to be stuff that a true immortal would do.

But... there is still the bit about meliodas having the ability to train to become demon king. That would mean the gods themselves are basically just insanely powerful people, nothing more and nothing less. Just having a shit ton of strength gives them their life bending abilities. Does that mean they are not special? The whole point about graces is that they are special because they are pieces of the supreme goddess' insane power. Saying they aren't special completely ignores the entire context here.

If a person can train to become a god then that means that regular means can become special, but there still is an element to them that is regular in nature. We know the gods are powerful, but I’d like more manga info be we start assuming what does and doesn’t apply to them

 

[Tragicdeath]

I wonder if Melas has the highest magic in DC with 31.5k magic? Or is it chandler? Melas stats are
Pl = 34k
Stength = 500
Magic = 31.5k
Spirit = 2k

 

[Bøjan]

I wonder if Melas has the highest magic in DC with 31.5k magic? Or is it chandler? Melas stats are
Pl = 34k
Stength = 500
Magic = 31.5k
Spirit = 2k

From the PL's that we've seen untill now, yes she has the highest stat.But i bet the princes have stronger magic even though their magic stat is a lot lower.At least for me they have better feats using magic for destructive purposes i guess (Meliodas and Zeldris only for now).
Oh and Chandler obviously, he's a master magician and fighter at the same time, probably Cusack too but we will see.

 

[Tragicdeath]

From the PL's that we've seen untill now, yes she has the highest stat.But i bet the princes have stronger magic even though their magic stat is a lot lower.At least for me they have better feats using magic for destructive purposes i guess (Meliodas and Zeldris only for now).

Yep zeldries dies irae or day of wrath is awsome.

 

[kkck]

I wonder if Melas has the highest magic in DC with 31.5k magic? Or is it chandler? Melas stats are
Pl = 34k
Stength = 500
Magic = 31.5k
Spirit = 2k

Monspeet has 34k on magic alone. Though gloxinia would have the distinction of the highest magic stat so far at 47k. Since chandler is a mage as well I would think there is a decent chance he has the highest magic stat in the demon clan at least.

 

[Tragicdeath]

Monspeet has 34k on magic alone. Though gloxinia would have the distinction of the highest magic stat so far at 47k. Since chandler is a mage as well I would think there is a decent chance he has the highest magic stat in the demon clan at least.

Oh I forgot glox but i think it is pretty much given because hes a fairy. But what Im saying is in the demon clan which gives Mons the highest I guess.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 1, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 1, 2018 ---

Monspeet has 34k on magic alone. Though gloxinia would have the distinction of the highest magic stat so far at 47k. Since chandler is a mage as well I would think there is a decent chance he has the highest magic stat in the demon clan at least.

How about Mons PL and other stats is he around Der? Der stats are
PL = 52k
Magic = 1.5k
Strength = 48k (800 more than zel)
Spirit = 2.5k

 

[kkck]

Oh I forgot glox but i think it is pretty much given because hes a fairy. But what Im saying is in the demon clan which gives Mons the highest I guess.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 1, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 1, 2018 ---

How about Mons PL and other stats is he around Der? Der stats are
PL = 52k
Magic = 1.5k
Strength = 48k (800 more than zel)
Spirit = 2.5k

Gloxinia (and dolor) are a bit of a grey area but we did see them use PoD back when the commandments were first introduced so it's not that unreasonable to count them IMO. Still, he did fully stop being a demon eventually.

I am not sure of what you mean in the second part.

 

[Tragicdeath]

Gloxinia (and dolor) are a bit of a grey area but we did see them use PoD back when the commandments were first introduced so it's not that unreasonable to count them IMO. Still, he did fully stop being a demon eventually.

I am not sure of what you mean in the second part.

Im asking for Monspiet complete stats PL, Strength, Spirit and Magic but never mind I think you guys already posted it so Ill just have to scan it from the start.lol

 

[sobreno]

It’s still a form of Mel that’s just weaker. I don’t see how the level of strength correlated to whether he has control of his emotions.

You keep saying that I’m comparing apples to oranges, but I need some manga info from manga pages that shows that graces do things that regular magics can or can’t

Also Jericho didn’t have to train to awaken her ice power the same way that Mel trained to get full counter. She had basic training. Even Hendrickson didn’t have to do much training. His power awoke out of fear

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 28, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 28, 2018 ---

If a person can train to become a god then that means that regular means can become special, but there still is an element to them that is regular in nature. We know the gods are powerful, but I’d like more manga info be we start assuming what does and doesn’t apply to them

The showing is the proofs, the mechanics are clearly different, as well as the origin. Meliodas can't control emotions that are eaten by his Father but with training, he managed to control it ( as showed in Istar against King ), later he controlled perfectly his wrath until he dies again and his Father mess up his training.


Jericho awaken the same magic of her brother because she was obsessed with him, she wanted to proves him something during all his life. Her personality drives her into that kind of magic. Meliodas was trained by Chandler, it is natural that he awakens the same magic than his master.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

The showing is the proofs, the mechanics are clearly different, as well as the origin. Meliodas can't control emotions that are eaten by his Father but with training, he managed to control it ( as showed in Istar against King ), later he controlled perfectly his wrath until he dies again and his Father mess up his training.


Jericho awaken the same magic of her brother because she was obsessed with him, she wanted to proves him something during all his life. Her personality drives her into that kind of magic. Meliodas was trained by Chandler, it is natural that he awakens the same magic than his master.

Mel couldn’t control his emotions even when he had more emotions though. After he was cursed there was a period when he became even more emotional, as evident by the mark on his forehead when compared to 3000 years ago. The reason he blew up Danafor was because he couldn’t control the wrath that was present in him. It didn’t have to do with his father’s curse. But regardless even though Mel was basically a slave to his power when his emotions were involved, he learned to control it. The databook also implies that Escanor can learn how to control his powers as well

And yeah like I said, Jericho did not have to go through specific and arduous training to awaken her power she had basic apprentice training. Same as Escanor as his awakened during an emotion outburst, just like Hendrickson through his fear and Jericho through her pain.

The only thing that is different is the origin, but that’s not really a specific talking point because “origin” is vague. I mean a human that originated in Australia is still the same as a human that originated from Japan. There are genetic differences, but they’re still the same thing

 

[sobreno]

Mel couldn’t control his emotions even when he had more emotions though. After he was cursed there was a period when he became even more emotional, as evident by the mark on his forehead when compared to 3000 years ago. The reason he blew up Danafor was because he couldn’t control the wrath that was present in him. It didn’t have to do with his father’s curse. But regardless even though Mel was basically a slave to his power when his emotions were involved, he learned to control it. The databook also implies that Escanor can learn how to control his powers as well

And yeah like I said, Jericho did not have to go through specific and arduous training to awaken her power she had basic apprentice training. Same as Escanor as his awakened during an emotion outburst, just like Hendrickson through his fear and Jericho through her pain.

The only thing that is different is the origin, but that’s not really a specific talking point because “origin” is vague. I mean a human that originated in Australia is still the same as a human that originated from Japan. There are genetic differences, but they’re still the same thing

Mel could after the training in Istar, that was the purpose of that training and he succeed. I know that he couldn't prior to that training.
Escanor is literally different, this power can't be controlled, he can't stop himself at becoming the One at 12 A.M, no matter what, he is forced to go into that cycle. Due to his mechanics, it is literally impossible to control it lol.

Nope, Escanor had that power since when he was child, without any training. He called that a curse lol.

Again, your analogy is not pertaining to the point at hand. Sunshine is a grace that was created by the SD, it forces his user to go into cycle of transformation and power during the day and remain inactive during the night. The user doesn't have a say here. That case is unique to Escanor in this entire manga.