I don't know where are you guys getting but Zeldris can never beat One.
In fact i believe he may not even beat 114000 Escanor.
In fact i believe he may not even beat 114000 Escanor.
The DK's power isn't really special (compared to Meliodas) yes, but because of that you can use him as a scale of how much it does boost Zeldris. It certanly isn't above 114k Escanor, since it was nothing compared to Meliodas and 114k Escanor was nothing too.So that should give us a "rough estimate" of how much boost Zeldris gets.But with the 2nd mark + DK power he can probably surpass 114k Escanor albeit not by much.How much more with DK's power
I think its too early to say DK's borrowed power isnt special because pretty much DK let Zel borrow it for a reason. Zel was stomped by Mel mainly because he didnt activate his demon mark and could also be demons power wasnt activated as well. Although you can make an argument Zel clearly stated even with DK's power he couldnt move but we really didnt see Zel changed his demons mark and maintains his base. Because if the dk's power was activated we could somehow see changes from Zels demon mark or physical features.The DK's power isn't really special (compared to Meliodas) yes, but because of that you can use him as a scale of how much it does boost Zeldris. It certanly isn't above 114k Escanor, since it was nothing compared to Meliodas and 114k Escanor was nothing too.So that should give us a "rough estimate" of how much boost Zeldris gets.But with the 2nd mark + DK power he can probably surpass 114k Escanor albeit not by much.
The notion that Sunshine is a superior Grace to any other is conjecture to begin with because often times, it isn't taken into consideration the obvious discrepancy (in functionality) Sunshine has compared to the other known Graces.Come on, there is no way that even with daddy's power zeldris can arbitrarily seal anyone's magic regardless of who he is. Escanor is one of the most powerful characters in the series to date, the notion that zeldris can just seal his power easily is ridiculous. Can he also seal the archangel's powers? And also assault mode meliodas'? Seriously....
This is sorta ironic since you're arbitrarily throwing limits on his sealing ability when there is no indication of such.Come on, there is no way that even with daddy's power zeldris can arbitrarily seal anyone's magic regardless of who he is. Escanor is one of the most powerful characters in the series to date, the notion that zeldris can just seal his power easily is ridiculous. Can he also seal the archangel's powers?
Yeah,if Zeldris is allowed to tag Meliodas,he should be able to seal up Fullcounter with no problem.And also assault mode meliodas'? Seriously....
Sounds like you've really got this PL thing all figured outzels own master put him on estarossas level.. esta was able to tank two of the archangels grace.. n elizabeths ark right after getting burned by monspeets hellblaze.. before absorbing anymore commandments.. so.. durability wise.. zel should be able to tank 70k poeples..
without commandment.. zel is now at best 50k.. n thats being generous..
the weakest of the achangels are between 75-90k.. n they are suppose to be able to handle 2 commandments.. maybe not two of the most powerful commandments.. but average.. that still puts each of them above any commandment individually..
zel showed confident to be able to face one of thw archangels without commandment.. means.. he can power up t around 80k+ power level.. as meliodas did seem a bit worried.. n sinc emael is dead.. he doesnt count.. n zel has to be a bit weaker for mel to be concerned at all!
but what doesnt make sense is why chusak compared estarossa with zel.. even if we were to take into account that esta has hidden power.. that would mean it s enough to beat mael? or it would make no sense.. but id esta is that strong.. n zel is comparable.. thats a bit too much power.. n mela said no one stood a chance against am meliodas 3k years ago..
so yeah.. at this point the writer would be seriously contradicting hinself if he gives esta or zel any bullshit power up..
if zel has second release.. n he cant yet use ir or master it.. but eventually learns it.. thats the only way.. i wouldnt be surprised if he becomes as strong as meliodas am in his release state.. considering how strong both of his brothers are atm.. he needs a serious boost to be relevant..
now if we cut out exactly how strong he gets with his 2nd release.. he is nowhere near escanor.. we all know the strongest character atm is escanor.. it would make no sense for a weakened zel to even stand a chance..
unless he invests some serious potential for the story.. he seems pretty much a fodder character who is only there to replace melipdas in casehe decides not to become dk at the end of this arc..
also.. with greater power level.. estarossa broke through two dimensions summoned by two grace.. theres no way his little magic gonna put escanor down.. unless he fights escanor wgen he is around 50k..

Sounds like you've really got this PL thing all figured out
Now I'm not gonna even attempt to have a crack at this PL theory anymore, but I just wanna address the line in bold. I've come to the absolute realisation that I, nor any fan, have the authority to use absolutes in someone else's work. This is Nakaba's design, & only he can make (or in some cases even break) absolutes. He's got the absolute power to do absolutely anything in NNT, even make Zeldris destroy ONE.
Commandments don't affect your PL unless you have several absorbed. Cusack doesn't know Estarossa's story and the way he killed Mael is unknown. Considering how Sun works he most likely killed him when he had a PL comparable to Escanor during their fight. Sariel and Tarmiel being in the 80K doesn't mean Mael, who has Sun was minimum at that level. Zeldris can power up with his mark, we saw him, Estarossa can't. They are only at a comparable level with their initial marks. PLs are not as important as you seem to think.zels own master put him on estarossas level.. esta was able to tank two of the archangels grace.. n elizabeths ark right after getting burned by monspeets hellblaze.. before absorbing anymore commandments.. so.. durability wise.. zel should be able to tank 70k poeples..
without commandment.. zel is now at best 50k.. n thats being generous..
the weakest of the achangels are between 75-90k.. n they are suppose to be able to handle 2 commandments.. maybe not two of the most powerful commandments.. but average.. that still puts each of them above any commandment individually..
zel showed confident to be able to face one of thw archangels without commandment.. means.. he can power up t around 80k+ power level.. as meliodas did seem a bit worried.. n sinc emael is dead.. he doesnt count.. n zel has to be a bit weaker for mel to be concerned at all!
but what doesnt make sense is why chusak compared estarossa with zel.. even if we were to take into account that esta has hidden power.. that would mean it s enough to beat mael? or it would make no sense.. but id esta is that strong.. n zel is comparable.. thats a bit too much power.. n mela said no one stood a chance against am meliodas 3k years ago..
so yeah.. at this point the writer would be seriously contradicting hinself if he gives esta or zel any bullshit power up..
if zel has second release.. n he cant yet use ir or master it.. but eventually learns it.. thats the only way.. i wouldnt be surprised if he becomes as strong as meliodas am in his release state.. considering how strong both of his brothers are atm.. he needs a serious boost to be relevant..
now if we cut out exactly how strong he gets with his 2nd release.. he is nowhere near escanor.. we all know the strongest character atm is escanor.. it would make no sense for a weakened zel to even stand a chance..
unless he invests some serious potential for the story.. he seems pretty much a fodder character who is only there to replace melipdas in casehe decides not to become dk at the end of this arc..
also.. with greater power level.. estarossa broke through two dimensions summoned by two grace.. theres no way his little magic gonna put escanor down.. unless he fights escanor wgen he is around 50k..
1.meliodas asked zel if he can handle archs without his commandment.. so its safe to assume that it does decrese power.. so far we havent seen anyone losing a commandment n then measure then measured their power.. nothing supports what you just said.. but what i said still makes sense.. losing something means gettinf weak.Commandments don't affect your PL unless you have several absorbed. Cusack doesn't know Estarossa's story and the way he killed Mael is unknown. Considering how Sun works he most likely killed him when he had a PL comparable to Escanor during their fight. Sariel and Tarmiel being in the 80K doesn't mean Mael, who has Sun was minimum at that level. Zeldris can power up with his mark, we saw him, Estarossa can't. They are only at a comparable level with their initial marks. PLs are not as important as you seem to think.
Nowhere has it been said that they add to your PLs, they are curses with special effects. We know how powerful Piety is and Zeldris will be alone against the opponents coming, Stigma made a team specifically to limit its effects. It's understandable to think that but it's not safe to assume they do because of that, nowhere has it been said.1.meliodas asked zel if he can handle archs without his commandment.. so its safe to assume that it does decrese power.. so far we havent seen anyone losing a commandment n then measure then measured their power.. nothing supports what you just said.. but what i said still makes sense.. losing something means gettinf weak.
I am talking about Escanor before his last second power up. Sariel and Tarmiel are generally the weakest, but their PLs are stable, Mael was not. If Estarossa beat him in a fair fight, his PL was not comparable to them so it was during the earliest hour of the morning or at night. Sariel and Tarmiel's words don't matter here, he killed him and they are arrogant. That's why they are puzzled.2.esta killing mael is unknown story.. thats what makes it interesting.. the escanor that beat esta was around 100k.. i doubt mael was that strong when esta beat him.. he couldnt even beat lower power level archs.. besides.. that theory doesnt even make sense since archs are able to summon dimensions suitable to them.. if two of the weakest could do that.. i dont see why mael couldn't.. so either esta beat him by cheap shot.. or he has some other power. also.. sariel n tarmiel said there is no way esta shouldve been able to beat mael.. so that means.. even at maels weakest.. he shouldve been able to handle someone with a power level of 60k(estas pl) so.. he is anywhere above 60k even at his weakest.. i don't think being 80k is too much considering othe archs power..
He knows a lot about Zeldris, he doesn't know a lot about Estarossa. Without his 2nd mark their PLs are similar. That's all. Why are you assuming that every single parameter is taken into account here? Cusack's words don't even matter much now. Zeldris has a 2nd mark, Estarossa doesn't so Zeldris is obviously stronger than him.3.i believe chusak knows about zels demon mark.. cause it would make no sense for him not to.. sinc ehe trained him.. n he still compared estarossa who didnt have it with zel.. means.. he actually compared them.. i dont think if he actually believd zel can handle him with demon mark.. he woukdve said esta might be stronger.. or even bothered to imply that.
The manga tells you not to be obsessed with it and if you consider that the rule has been broken several times then I don't see why you are saying this. In battles, everything doesn't revolve around PLs. I never said it is not important.4.the whole show hs become a game of power level.. so far.. only a few characers has broken that rule..
if absorbing a commandment boosts power.. its only logical conclusion that if you give away your commandment.. you will get weaker.. nothing you said about it makes sense.. nor is it proven.. but absorbing one gives boost its proven by estas power level.. n it also doesnt make sense that absorbing one wont boost but 2 will.. lol! xDNowhere has it been said that they add to your PLs, they are curses with special effects. We know how powerful Piety is and Zeldris will be alone against the opponents coming, Stigma made a team specifically to limit its effects. It's understandable to think that but it's not safe to assume they do because of that, nowhere has it been said.
I am talking about Escanor before his last second power up. Sariel and Tarmiel are generally the weakest, but their PLs are stable, Mael was not. If Estarossa beat him in a fair fight, his PL was not comparable to them so it was during the earliest hour of the morning or at night. Sariel and Tarmiel's words don't matter here, he killed him and they are arrogant. That's why they are puzzled.
He knows a lot about Zeldris, he doesn't know a lot about Estarossa. Without his 2nd mark their PLs are similar. That's all. Why are you assuming that every single parameter is taken into account here? Cusack's words don't even matter much now. Zeldris has a 2nd mark, Estarossa doesn't so Zeldris is obviously stronger than him.
The manga tells you not to be obsessed with it and if you consider that the rule has been broken several times then I don't see why you are saying this. In battles, everything doesn't revolve around PLs. I never said it is not important.
Your Magic and other kind of abilities matter too. With his current feats for example I can perfectly see Zeldris beating Escanor at the earliest hour of the morning without his 2nd mark since he could kill him with ease his a curse.
If they do. I am saying that I don't believe that they boost PLs and that you can't prove that they do because of Mel's lines and also because it's not been stated in the manga. Estarossa is not like the other Demons, it gave him the PoD, which is a very important power for Demons and he trained to reach that level with it. We have seen flashbacks of him when he had Love and he was struggling to defeat low tier Goddesses.if absorbing a commandment boosts power.. its only logical conclusion that if you give away your commandment.. you will get weaker.. nothing you said about it makes sense.. nor is it proven.. but absorbing one gives boost its proven by estas power level.. n it also doesnt make sense that absorbing one wont boost but 2 will.. lol! xD
You don't know how strong Mael was or in what situation he was when Estarossa defeated him. Nothing says that his PL was minimum in the 60K range all the time and if he was then Estarossa could have defeated him.no.. they were puzzlew by how weak esta was before absorbing the extra commandments.. n yet managed to kill mael.. it obviously means even at maels weakest.. mael was stronger than 60k or at least strong enough to handle it.. im not even talking about powered up esta.. almost all the characters are arrogant.. ban meliodas escanor zel king.. etc.. that doesnt mean they are dumb.. sariel n tarmiel were intelligent enough to catch on estas power almost reaching them after witnessing it.. so yeah..
Estarossa's PL is 60K while Zeldris's PL is 61 with their initial marks so, their PLs are similar. Obviously Cusack knows that Zeldris has a second mark but Cusack doesn't know much about Estarossa and Estarossa doesn't have a second mark. So, why are you acting as if they were at the same level again? We don't need words, it's clear that Zeldris is stronger.ofcourse chusak doesnt know everything about esta.. but he knows his normal power level.. n that he is not like his other brothers.. n cantuse second state of demon mark.. n he obviously knows everything about zel.. specially such a big thing.. you are telling me not to assume.. yet you are also assuming.. i really dont understand.. are you trying to tell me i should assume the same thing you are assuming?
I am simply saying that thinking that PL> everything is wrong, not that it doesn't matter.you are telling me power leevl is not as important yet you are saying you didnt say its not important.. i think i already proved that in most cases power level matter.. escanor was atleast able to fight back without the one against am.. zel wasnt able to even stand..
n as for zel being able to eat escanor during the warly hours.. i believe he can can down or at leqst compete with any escanor except 11am to 1pm.. but saying that is like saying can a normal human beat escanor? yes.. cause in human form he is weak af.. any decent human can beat him..
???i dont think the op wanted an answer like that?
Not to mention that Fraudrin, the guy whose weakness compared to the others has been highlighted many times had a PL of 30K.Commandments only add to your power if you absorb them. Otherwise someone like galland would have a power level of around 12,000 before receiving his commandment which is incredibly low. Plus if they naturally added to your power, then what’s the point of absorbing them in the first place? All one would have to do is just keep them activated on themselves and boom, problem solved
If they do. I am saying that I don't believe that they boost PLs and that you can't prove that they do because of Mel's lines and also because it's not been stated in the manga. Estarossa is not like the other Demons, it gave him the PoD, which is a very important power for Demons and he trained to reach that level with it. We have seen flashbacks of him when he had Love and he was struggling to defeat low tier Goddesses.
You don't know how strong Mael was or in what situation he was when Estarossa defeated him. Nothing says that his PL was minimum in the 60K range all the time and if he was then Estarossa could have defeated him.
Estarossa's PL is 60K while Zeldris's PL is 61 with their initial marks so, their PLs are similar. Obviously Cusack knows that Zeldris has a second mark but Cusack doesn't know much about Estarossa and Estarossa doesn't have a second mark. So, why are you acting as if they were at the same level again? We don't need words, it's clear that Zeldris is stronger.
I am simply saying that thinking that PL> everything is wrong, not that it doesn't matter.
???
Not to mention that Fraudrin, the guy whose weakness compared to the others has been highlighted many times had a PL of 30K.
:v lmao! anyway.. judging by your profile picture i understand its impossible to make any sort of rational argument with you in this matter.. so ill leave it at that..
The commandments can be turned into raw power, that's what Meliodas is doing and Estarossa already did. Estarossa lied about being Meliodas while he had absorbed Truth. Why didn't he turn to stone then? Because the decree was no longer active, having been turned into power.if c didnt add power level.. that means.. meliodas with 10c will only getthe haxes.. not pl.. that means.. he will still be around 140+k.. and he said with 10c he can fight dk.. so that would mean 140k pl is enough to rival dk.. in other words.. escanor>dk.. that makes zero sense.. its obvious that absorbing c gives power boost.. sigh!
It's very clear that Zeldris is naturally stronger than Estarossa. At base Zeldris has a slightly higher power level and the DK's magic. Plus Zeldris has a confirmed natural power up whereas Estarossa doesn't. And like Cusack said, Zel,Mel, Chandler, and himself are the 4 highest ranked demons.its pretry safe to say commandments ads powwr level.. ill say this with a different example.. and it will be my last example cause idk how to convince with more simplistic term..
if c didnt add power level.. that means.. meliodas with 10c will only getthe haxes.. not pl.. that means.. he will still be around 140+k.. and he said with 10c he can fight dk.. so that would mean 140k pl is enough to rival dk.. in other words.. escanor>dk.. that makes zero sense.. its obvious that absorbing c gives power boost.. sigh!
did i ever say i knew how strong mael was? what i said was.. its a safe assumption to say he wasnt anything above 60k judging by the archangels dialogues.. whether you want to believe it or not is different matter..
uhh.. no its not clear zel is stronger than esta lol! xD pfft..:v lmao! anyway.. judging by your profile picture i understand its impossible to make any sort of rational argument with you in this matter.. so ill leave it at that..
i never said pl>everything.. what i said was.. pl is most important than anything else in most cases.. and characters who can beat higher pl characters are very few.. ban merlin and most likely gowther.. these three are the only one capable of taking on higher power level characters.. so.. yeah.. theres no guarantee that zel has that kind of hax.. he may.. he may not.. but thats just assumption from both sides till we see.. i doubt his hax can compare to merlin or ban..
I said that they give you boost when you absorb more than one. So with two, you get stronger, but the effects of the curse disappear. Estarossa is currently much stronger but Love, Truth and Reticence are no longer in effect. Derrierie, the Sins and other clearly hate him and they are not unable to attack.its pretry safe to say commandments ads powwr level.. ill say this with a different example.. and it will be my last example cause idk how to convince with more simplistic term..
if c didnt add power level.. that means.. meliodas with 10c will only getthe haxes.. not pl.. that means.. he will still be around 140+k.. and he said with 10c he can fight dk.. so that would mean 140k pl is enough to rival dk.. in other words.. escanor>dk.. that makes zero sense.. its obvious that absorbing c gives power boost.. sigh!
OK. I get it. I was saying something similar.did i ever say i knew how strong mael was? what i said was.. its a safe assumption to say he wasnt anything above 60k judging by the archangels dialogues.. whether you want to believe it or not is different matter..
Yeah right. Let's ignore that Monspiet said that Mel and Zel were geniuses while Estarossa was below average and a shame to his clan. Let's ignore that Zeldris has a second mark. I like Zeldris more than Estarossa but I am not the type of person who will deny that Estarossa is naturally stronger if you have good arguments.uhh.. no its not clear zel is stronger than esta lol! xD pfft..:v lmao! anyway.. judging by your profile picture i understand its impossible to make any sort of rational argument with you in this matter.. so ill leave it at that..
Well, it doesn't work like that. If your PL are similar, nothing says that the one with the higher PL will win.i never said pl>everything.. what i said was.. pl is most important than anything else in most cases.. and characters who can beat higher pl characters are very few.. ban merlin and most likely gowther.. these three are the only one capable of taking on higher power level characters
No guarantee? We saw him curse Merlin with Hellblaze. And Merlin only lasted this long because of her resistance to curses. Until proven otherwise, Escanor has no curse resistance or immunity so as long as the power gap is not too wide he could beat him with that move. You need Goddess tier magic to dispel it... so.. yeah.. theres no guarantee that zel has that kind of hax.. he may.. he may not.. but thats just assumption from both sides till we see.. i doubt his hax can compare to merlin or ban..