Discussion Luffy the Fifth Emperor?!

[ThatOtherGuy]

Hi,

I'm pretty new here. Been a long time reader of one piece and I do have a bit of experience discussing it on the internet, but this is pretty much my first time on mangahelpers.

I thought I'd make my first thread here about the newest big development in the manga: Luffy being hailed as the Fifth Emperor of the sea.

At first, I felt excited about the news, as the chapter was pretty hype, and we all know Oda knows how to write a hype chapters when he wants to. But after a bit of time, my usual skepticism settled in. Now, I'm not really going to dispute the title, seeing as there is really no reason why he couldn't be called Emperor, as long as the news is calling him that, and we all can guess that next arc will probably feature the fall of another emperor, which will make it completely official. Instead I'm going to try to compare him to other Emperors and see how he stacks up now, just to get a feel of whether or not this was too early.

First of all, I will attempt to answer the question: What constitutes an Emperor of the Sea?

This is of course, a title that has been bestowed so far on four powerful pirates in the New World, over at least two generations. Unlike the Shichibukai, this 'appointement' does not seem to be something ruled on by the World Government. Instead, it seems to function more like a popular 'nickname' for the powerful pirates with the most followers out there. The ones who quite literally, as the name suggests, rule over empires. So having territory, and a big pirate army to defend it, is quite necessary.

Another thing that seems necessary to being an Emperor of the Sea is notoriety. Luffy for instance, has only been hailed as the fifth Emperor after he broke the Billion Beli mark. It does seem however, that most other emperors have subbordinates who are very notorious too, such as Katakuri, Jack, Smoothie, Cracker, Perospero & Snack. I'm sure Marco, Jozu & Vista all had a bounty higher than Ace's 550 million too. So far, it seems like 500 Million is the mark to surpass to be in the big leagues as far as enfluence goes.

So in conclusion, in addition to the obvious power level required for being an Emperor, one needs Territory, Armies, and notoriety.

Territory:

So far, Luffy's territory in the New World is limited officially to Fishman Island, and Green Bit. Though one could argue that Dressrosa and Prodence (Elizabello's country) are also part of it, and maybe Orlumbus's country too, though his king didn't seem pleased by his joining Luffy at all in that one panel we got to see of him. Zou is loyal to a Samurai clan that Luffy hasn't fully put under him yet, so I would hold off on that one until Kaido is taken down. This seems like a pretty thin haul so far. After all, most independant supernova have hide outs of their own as Territory and Luffy has barely surpassed them a tiny bit so far on this regard.

Army:

On this one, I think Luffy has done pretty well for himself so far. He has a fleet of 7 crews besides his own, and though the Sun Pirates haven't declared for him officially yet, they are bound to Fishman Island, which has, so he can count on them when it counts. It's kind of ironic really, but the Germa 66 were looking to get an alliance with a Yonko through Sanji, and they got one, just not with the same Yonko. And let us not forget Shirahoshi of course, she is an ancient weapon after all.

Comparing to other Supernova, Luffy seems to be quite ahead, especially seeing as Bege and Law seem to be destined to be dragged under him, but the actual Emperors are still a lot better equipped than he is on this front.

Notoriety:

This one, I think we can measure with a certain ammount of accuracy, given that it is measured by numbers (bounties), and even compare a bit to another Emperor crew.

We have eight known bounties in the Big Mom Pirates, ranging from Katakuri at 1,057,000,000 beli to Bobbin at 105,000,000 beli. The average of these bounties is: 626,625,000 beli.

The average of the top 8 known bounties amongst Luffy's crew and allied subordinates is: 426,850,000 beli.

There is a ratio of 1.47 between the two values, as in the Big Mom Pirates are about one and a half times more notorious than The Strawhat Pirates. Though one has to keep in mind that the bounty of Big Mom herself isn't known yet, so the value I calculated is a lower limit. Maybe we should assume something along the lines of The Big Mom Pirates being about twice as notrious as the Strawhat Pirates.

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In conclusion, Luffy has most definitely broken from the pack of the Supernova, but his Emperorship seems to be still in it's infancy from a harsh critic's perspective. I think 'Big News' Morgan chose to start calling him an Emperor a bit prematurely, which is not necessarily a bad move, seeing as the string of achievements Luffy has had so far pointes towards him doing better in the future.

 

[Fox666]

Jinbe said it's hard for a bounty to increase after it "exceeds 300 million", I assume after that point it takes time to get your bounty increased. Indeed Luffy bounty had small increments after that, 100 million each time, and the 20-year-old Ace was only 550 million. Or at least it's what normally happens, which is why Luffy is being labeled the Fifth Emperor for having a sudden increase like that.

 

[dikwetz]

I agree that territory, army and notoriety are the main reasons why one is labelled an emperor. Law explained to Luffy that emperors are not the same kind of opponent as what he faced before simply because of the sheer amount of strong subordinates they have. It is also true that Whitebeard had a pretty nice crew himself, with a large amount of skilled allied crews. The same can be said of Big Mom and presumably Kaidou. We also know that Blackbeard, on top of his own power, has got many subordinates of varying strength, including for example Kuzan. Shanks remains a wild card, very few is known about him and his connections.

However, there is another pattern I'd underline. Due to the reasons above, Emperors are feared, and basically considered undefeatable. And to prove so much, there is a single condition: winning an encounter against another Emperor.

Whitebeard was the strongest man in the world.

Kaidou is called the strongest beast in the world. Plus he has never really lost because he is impossible to kill.

Blackbeard was called an emperor from the moment he defeated the remainder of the Whitebeard Pirates. He does not seem that impressive, being cowardly in front of Akainu, but what seems to matter is the result, Blackbeard is undefeated.

Big Mom was unchallenged for decades.

Luffy is called an emperor from the moment he was the victor against the Big Mom Pirates.

Shanks had a skirmish with Kaidou, and shortly after was in Marineford, strongly implying that he emerged victorious. Shanks seems to have been injured only once by another pirate, and it was Blackbeard.

 

[McNuss]

Luffy is called an Emperor in Morgans Fake News article. There is still a long road ahead for us for him to actually become one.

 

[kkck]

TBH I don't think there is a specific thing that makes you an emperor in this context. Gold roger made it to pirate king but as far as we know he never had massive armies behind him. During the battle of ed war or whatever against shiki it was his sole ship against shiki's fleet...

Law described the yonko as pirates with control over massive crime rings and spheres of influence over a territory. Big mom rules over her islands as a borderline queen and had territory affiliated to her. WB also had a vast crew and territory affiliated to him though we never learned if he had something like WCI where he ruled as king. He seemed to spend most of his time in his flagship so he probably didn't have an actual kingdom of his own. Since BB took over WB's territory he also probably does not have a kingdom but that is just my guess.

Kaido seems to have a vast crew and affiliated pirate crews... And we have no more information beyond that.

Shanks has been seen little and he is either chilling at islands or at his pirate ship. Looking at shanks he goesn't strike me as the type to have kingdom of his own. We have yet to see a single crew that is affiliated to him but it'd be difficult for him to compete with other yonko if he didn't have an army behind him. But I would expect his crew relations to not be quite so formal as with other yonko considering he is a former roger pirate. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out his crew structure is somewhat similar to luffy's fleet structure but perhaps somewhat more formal as shanks might want people bearing his flag.

 

[McNuss]

Kaido seems to have a vast crew and affiliated pirate crews... And we have no more information beyond that.

Shanks has been seen little and he is either chilling at islands or at his pirate ship. Looking at shanks he goesn't strike me as the type to have kingdom of his own. We have yet to see a single crew that is affiliated to him but it'd be difficult for him to compete with other yonko if he didn't have an army behind him. But I would expect his crew relations to not be quite so formal as with other yonko considering he is a former roger pirate. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out his crew structure is somewhat similar to luffy's fleet structure but perhaps somewhat more formal as shanks might want people bearing his flag.

Kaido occupies the Wano Country and also has an unnamed island where weapons are made. Shanks has territory as seen in the Bartolomeo cover story.

 

[kcd]

Beautiful, nice work bro.

There's no doubt whatsoever that Luffy deserves this title, he's earned it. While I liked the three variables you used to make your points, I wanna look at it in a different light.
Sometime ago, I said that Luffy is the closest thing to a yonko, that's why I really wasn't surprised the bird guy deemed him worthy of the tittle. It was all a matter of time before the world knew the extent of his strength, influence and might.

Just having the entire citizens of zou alone (as allies) shows anyone (looking to take him down) what they have to contend with. The two rulers of the Minks tribe are definitely strong enough to go toe to toe with any top yonko commander, so in essence, by acquiring zou, Luffy already has the man power that can handle a third (1/3) of a yonko's millitary might quite comfortably (and still have spare manpower to help out against the others, drawing conclusion from Jack's encounter with them, they kept on overwhelming Jack's surbordinates till he resulted to using underhanded tactics). They are certainly the ones to look out for, especially during major conflicts, they are valuable to him probably as much as he's valuable to them.

Another major ally (though not yet official) is the Germa pirates (lol) or simply Germa 66. While I don't think the three kids can beat a yonko commander alone (though not impossible), the germa country certainly have the man power to take out a yonko's commander's fleet. Now, add law to the equation and they (the 3kids plus law) could take out another yonko's commander while the fleet (germa army) handles the commander's fleet.
Now, all that is left is the final third of the yonko's crew and the yonko himself.

Luffy's crew (Sanji, Jimbe, Franky, Zoro and most importantly Nami) PLUS the sun pirates PLUS the strawhat grand fleet (excluding the commanders) can definitely overwhelm the remaining third of a yonko's fleet.
Luffy and Marco and all seven commanders (most importantly Bartolomeo) PLUS luck (very much needed) can take on the yonko and fancy their chances of winning.
A yonko's crew can very well be matched by Luffy's full might if it becomes official that both germa and the sun pirates are his allies.
Even if they don't join his umbrella and even if luffy can't beat a yonko himself as he currently is, any yonko challenging him should be ready to lose atleast 90 percent of their forces, which is a feat only yonkous and the world government are capable off, hence the reason why I think 'Luffy is' and should be considered a yonko.

 

[M3J]

Luffy as an Emperor feels to weird and un-Luffylike. Just look at how he reacted to being named leader of a freakin' huge fleet that'd actually help him on his road to becoming the Pirate King. I don't see Luffy acquiring territories unless he has to to protect it, like with Fishman Island.

Though, Luffy would probably choose to be a kind of "ruler" that lets his people have freedom to do whatever.

 

[Fox666]

Like Roger, Luffy would not want the responsibility of being a ruler.

 

[McNuss]

One of my favorite musics is reggea music. There are many young reggea artists that get labeled by the press as the "next Bob Marley". None of them actually comes even close to Bob in terms of sales and polularity. I bet you could alter this example with any field of music, or sports, art, etc...

This is how I see Morgans article. It is hype, mixed with fake news. Obviously Luffy will really triumph in the end, and with his 5600 followers and all his other allies, he is on a good way. But he is not there yet. Not Now.

 

[kcd]

Though, Luffy would probably choose to be a kind of "ruler" that lets his people have freedom to do whatever.

Exactly, Luffy as an emperor wouldn't care about acquiring territories the way Bigmom do, but, I think his fleet will do so regardless, as they do have free hand afterall.

What I found equally interesting as the actual chapters themselves are - "the tales of the self-proclaimed grand fleet", particularly Bartolomeo, who's currently on a mission to sell luffy merchandise and burn other pirate's flags. It's highly possible he's already acquiring territories for luffy.

He seems the perfect commander fit for that task because of his devil fruit. He definitely has the potential to be on par with other top yonko's commanders especially if he learns to use his abilities in interesting ways. I see him becoming overpowered if he can copy Cracker's way of fighting, most especially if he learns of ways of manipulating his barrier just the way cracker manipulates his biscuits, but that's by the way.

Luffy's not the type to want territories to rule over as you rightly said, but at some point, it may be revealed that his fleet has control over huge chunks of the new world, which would further solidify his title as an Emperor, and ofcourse, act as the basis through which he becomes one of the greatest pirates in the world, and then ultimately, the pirate king.

I'll hold my thoughts for now but, when that time comes, I trust that the News guy will deliver the news in such an entertaining and captivating manner as he's done with whole cake island, lol.

 

[ThatOtherGuy]

Luffy is called an Emperor in Morgans Fake News article. There is still a long road ahead for us for him to actually become one.

I think of it more as a prediction. This Morgan guy was invited to cover the Wedding of the year after all, and he looks suspiciously like a news coo, so I'm pretty sure he's legit.

Luffy as an Emperor feels to weird and un-Luffylike. Just look at how he reacted to being named leader of a freakin' huge fleet that'd actually help him on his road to becoming the Pirate King. I don't see Luffy acquiring territories unless he has to to protect it, like with Fishman Island.

Though, Luffy would probably choose to be a kind of "ruler" that lets his people have freedom to do whatever.

Yup, that's Luffy alright!