Shounen Orient by Shinobu Ohtaka

[Eastgrove]

I think this might be outside of my genre. Guys running around with swords fighting things doesn't hold alot of appeal to me. I'm more interested in why people fight, their goals short term and long term. And for the life of me, nothing is more tacky than a motorcycle.

...Of course, I might be a bit of a hypocrite. I did read Claymore for like 8 years and that's basically a bunch of sword wielding women running around fighting monsters in a dark medieval setting where happy endings basically never happened, and people tended to die horribly. I guess more than anything I was taking in by how tragic things tended to be. It was very edgy, but I've matured a bit since then I suppose.

Still some nice monster designs.

So what have we got here? The Oni exploit towns and cities for labor. They have a priesthood of sorts that have rewritten history in a rather comically dubious way. What we've seen so far is that they're cruel brutes, but lack any real menace or intelligence. And a minor uprising at one quarry caused the local boss to call a retreat, personally coming down from the sky to give the order. Ohtaka chose to not follow up instead leaving the chapter to end on a light hearted optimistic note, hearkening to the start of a new adventure, rather than a rebellion.

I just don't think she's given the setting much thought...which is weird when the title of the manga is "Orient", a word that not only describes a place but an array of histories and cultures. For me at least, orient is a word that carries a certain romance to it. Romance that was completely lacking from what I read.

I guess the protagonists are likable enough, but they're completely self-taught and motivated. They'd never even seen oni and not only prepared themselves to fight them, but are extremely gung-ho and happy about it all because of some story book. That's some really weak characterization right there. No parents, no role model, no teacher. They aren't curious about the world or people. Literally all they want to do is beat up monsters as an end in of itself.

I'm sorry, this is the sort of thing Ohtaka during her prime would have scribbled out on a napkin as an after thought.

 

[airmattress]

Im slowly realising there's some sort of unjust disdain towards motorcycles

@Eastgrove Typically the first chapter of most manga is a long oneshot that has a contained story and a conclusion to it within that chapter, so that's probably why there was a "happy ending" to it. The first chapter of Magi was exactly that, and some manga even rewrite the whole chapter later on, SnB did that actually. I don't think that's happening here but that's just how these chapters are it seems.

Also there are role-models, and parents who act as teachers involved... Kojirou's dad is even in 1 panel, but more on that will be revealed later.

You and I both know drawing elaborate super detailed battles isn't Ohtaka's strongest point, so I doubt this is gonna be anything close to "Guys running around with swords fighting things" moving forward.

 

[Eastgrove]

Im slowly realising there's some sort of unjust disdain towards motorcycles

What do you call a motor-cycle gang piled up in a ditch? A good start.

@Eastgrove Typically the first chapter of most manga is a long oneshot that has a contained story and a conclusion to it within that chapter, so that's probably why there was a "happy ending" to it. The first chapter of Magi was exactly that, and some manga even rewrite the whole chapter later on, SnB did that actually. I don't think that's happening here but that's just how these chapters are it seems.

Magi's opening introduced Aladdin who was mysterious. We also got to see what kind of setting we were dealing with. The bandits he and Ugo ultimately defeated actually had some kind of plan and motivation. There was a twist in the story with the redeemed bandit girl who's past caught up to her and put her friends in danger. The only twist in this story was the propaganda used to rewrite history, which was really hard to believe.

Also there are role-models, and parents who act as teachers involved... Kojirou's dad is even in 1 panel, but more on that will be revealed later.

For all intents and purposes, they're children raised by a pile of books. If your parent has been gone for most of your life, they did not raise you. For comparison, Aladdin had Ugo...and Alibaba had alot of people, even before the manga started. I know, I get it, these are different types of characters in a completely different genre...but the two protagonists are virtually identical.

Like Goku from Dragonball Z was introduced alongside Bulma, who was the complete opposite of him. He was a savage jungle boy, she was a sophisticated and intelligent city girl with a genius for tech. Both characters brought something to the story that kept things fresh. By comparison, the protagonists in Orient are the same age, they're both sword fighters, they were raised together, have the same background, they have the same goal, they're both boys.

There's just nothing there. In 70 pages we got their life-story. If there's more to them, there was no hint of it. I feel like there's nothing to look forward to.

 

[Haya-san]

Ch 2 summary by Eleore:

Spoiler

It looks like the city they live in is Tatsuyama in the Shizuoka prefecture and Kanemaki in this story is Kojirou's real father instead of his teacher. The battle with the Tengu gave me Shadow of the Colossus vibes. I expect the others to be also based off mythical Japanese youkais. The teachers said that it's been five years since the kishin showed its true form, which coincided with when the manga started when Musashi and Kojirou made that oath. I wonder what happened to Kojirou's father.

It looks like we'll see more motorcycles and maybe even smokers in the next chapter. It seems to me the motorcycles and the cigarettes a used to show that the samurais are the delinquents/outcasts in that society

 

[Laminariales]

@Eastgrove Maybe the real hidden massage's that motorcycle gangs are modern day vagabonds (by Inoue definition) xD
That said, I think our expectations are set at just weekly entertainment, I can't imagine it becoming a distinguishable shounen tier before several volumes are out, so just let it run I guess ^^

Spoiler

Lol an egg! xD I guess the kishin where like, some trouble at some ditch district, throw an egg.
I'll wait for the scans, but atleast more characters next week hopefully! weekly release is a bless

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 5, 2018, Original Post Date: Jun 5, 2018 ---

Spoiler: Edit: Sew the scans!

My expectations were pretty low BUT really enjoyed it!! the chapter should be titled kojirou being tsun tsun about his sword (& heritage)

Kojirou sad backstory reveal itself, although still what happend to his dad remain shrouded in mystery (I agree with the guesses above!)
The panels were drawn with such an intensity, my heart skipped a beat with Kojirou's "IT'S MINE"

Musashi is love, what an SS class skilled miner! to be able to dig thorough an organic (?) matter

Well, that was fun, I wonder if the oni is really dead or like magi!duniya the next stage would be a more humanoid form, Expectation 2 the gang who appeared in the end will dig through it for resources, it's getting grotesque.

 

[Haya-san]

If I'm going to criticize something about the chapter, it's the pacing. After the flashback, the pace gets slow at parts. Also, Musashi has yet to distinguish himself from your typical shounen protagonist, and so far, he's inferior to Alibaba and Aladdin when they were introduced. Kojirou is the more interesting of the two. Maybe Musashi will stand out later when we learn more about him.

Overall, a decent start, but I still need to see more central characters and to learn more about the world to better judge it. I had a similar issue with Magi that didn't really hook me until the Balbadd arc when major characters, like Sinbad, were introduced. I enjoyed the earlier volumes of Magi more when I reread them later.

 

[Crescent Jinx]

Chapter 1 was a bit generic for me. Could list a few other mangas with similar first chapters. And unlike everyone else I found the teddyoni and oni in general to be one of the more interesting things of the chapter.

 

[Eastgrove]

Overall, a decent start, but I still need to see more central characters and to learn more about the world to better judge it. I had a similar issue with Magi that didn't really hook me until the Balbadd arc when major characters, like Sinbad, were introduced. I enjoyed the earlier volumes of Magi more when I reread them later.

I was hooked immediately and actually a grew a bit disappointed when the sense of adventure was lost in later arcs. Still, the manga tried many things and had a diverse cast of characters that enabled that.

But speaking strictly of the opening chapter chapter of Magi vs. this one, well, as I'd written, Aladdin is a mysterious character and is out of context within the setting. I'd written before that he was a point of view character, someone to follow and take in the world and meet other characters. Being a naive little boy with simple wants and needs made him very effective early on, and while the big mystery surrounding him and the eventual pay off ended up being...less than well received by many, it was at least there to intrigue people.

I don't see anything similar to that with Orient. Musashi has to shake the indoctrination he's had to endure during most of his formative years and muster up the nerve to finally declare his life's wish...but it falls flat since he's in a life and death battle against real monsters. He's literally worried about peer pressure while getting pounded into the ground. Peer pressure is scarier than fighting an oni. Even when he's totally vindicated and has living proof trying to deprive him of his own, he has difficulty embracing what he wants to be.

For me at least, at this point, he'd be a pretty worthless character if he didn't have monsters to fight. He's dissatisfied with a normal life, has nothing he wants to protect, and no where to go.

And the other guy isn't really any better. They're too similar and thus not a very dynamic pair. Ohtaka really needs to introduce some supporting characters to play off them for things to work. And quickly.

 

[iceemperor]

The raw for chapter 2 is out and I am quite disappointed, not in the direction but the characters. The story itself hasn't progressed at all. This chapter, Kojiro gets his flashback about his days as a kid at school while being from a Bushi family. On paper it should work and get us to empathize with him but I feel nothing. There's just something about the way its done that isn't clicking with me. The art is also weird. I know Magi has always had unconventional art but the contrast with some pages having lots of tone and screentone and some pages are just white with some black tones just isn't working for me here. Some pages were also hard for me to fully read even though I like the design of the the Oni. I just hope that Ohtaka is able to bounce back quickly from here and get the plot running and introducing more characters to bounce off of the main duo to make them more likeable.

 

[Haya-san]

And the other guy isn't really any better. They're too similar and thus not a very dynamic pair. Ohtaka really needs to introduce some supporting characters to play off them for things to work. And quickly.

In defense of Ohtaka, Musashi and Kojirou are based on swordsmens that lived in the 16th-17th century who were around the same age. The only difference is that she decided to make them childhood friends in this story rather than rivals that end up wanting to kill each other (it's possible that the story takes this route later on). Personally, I'm interested to see how she's going to portray them from now on, but I understand that she needs to introduce more supporting characters soon.

 

[Demonspeed]

Chapter 2 in English.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 7, 2018, Original Post Date: Jun 7, 2018 ---

Loved that double page with the Kishin. Since they defeated him like that there must be several ones.

I was not really bothered by the pacing. With Kojiro's passion rekindled they can truly be considered partners.

 

[Eastgrove]

In defense of Ohtaka, Musashi and Kojirou are based on swordsmens that lived in the 16th-17th century who were around the same age. The only difference is that she decided to make them childhood friends in this story rather than rivals that end up wanting to kill each other (it's possible that the story takes this route later on). Personally, I'm interested to see how she's going to portray them from now on, but I understand that she needs to introduce more supporting characters soon.

Well, the first chapter didn't have much focus on Koijrou. And to be honest, I am kinda brushing them aside, and not giving them a proper look.

There's a trick when designing characters and creating a dynamic between them. Musashi and Kjirou are both swordsmen of similar age and from the same time and place. Their relationship is that they are friends and equals. They are very similar, but by making them this way the differences can become more pronounced. If I had to guess, Kjirou will be the more intellectual and analytical of the two, while Musashi is more reckless. It's a classic dynamic between friends/rivals.

Personally, I've always found it an annoying one though. The reckless character ends up being saved by authorial fiat all the time at the expense of others while never learning his lesson, while the intellectual falls into the background and ends up deferring to the reckless character because they're The One or something like that. I do think I have reason to believe in Ohtaka's ability to balance the two types, but I also remember how she can fall back on authorial fiat when she writes herself into a corner and wants a desired result (literally everyone on the planet being mind controlled!).

Anyway, put simply being smart makes you slow, being impulsive makes you blind. What works and what doesn't depends on the situation, and I hope Ohtaka puts in enough thought for her scenarios to let both characters shine in their own way, especially at the expense of the other. It's fine for both characters to fail at one point or another, because that's what friends are for.

 

[Haya-san]

So, since Morgiana appeared in ch 3 of Magi, maybe the heroine will appear next? I want her to be a ninja girl. We might also get a Buddhist monk, a shrine maiden, a good youkai as side-kick/mascot and maybe a foreigner who fights with a gun (this is begining to sound like the Inuyasha main cast). Also, is Ohtaka going to introduce something like the djinn equips? Or battles wil mainly be fought with sword techniques that the characters invent?

Finally, I checked the map of Japan, and saw that Tatsuyama isn't that far from Kyoto, the capital at that time. I expect the main duo to eventually travel there and we might get a look at the central government that's being controlled by the oni.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 12, 2018, Original Post Date: Jun 9, 2018 ---

Ch 3 spoiler images:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Short summary (wait for Eleore):

Spoiler

Much like the medium, the kishin regenerated and it looks like it can't be killed with normal methods. Musashi has gone full mode shounen protag with his insistence to defeat the oni when Kojirou urged him that they must run away and that the kishin was out of their league. The samurai appear and save the day, though they sufferred some casualty. The leader of the samurai group is Naotora Takeda, who seems to be of the Takeda clan. Naotora was a daimyou during the Sengoku period and Ohtaka mixed the names.

 

[airmattress]

Chapter 3 Raw

 

[Haya-san]

I wouldn't mind if the girl with the glasses is the heroine, but it looks like she has a crush on smiley pretty boy. Someone like her would've been different from your conventional shounen heroine. She might also be older than Musashi and Kojirou.

Interestingly enough, Naotora was a female daimyou in the Sengoku period, but Ohtaka decied to make her male. But maybe he's also based on Takeda Nobutora. Both have the Kanji 'Tora=tiger' in their names, and depending on which one Ohtaka went with, he could be 18 or 26. I think there will be other bushidan and each belongs to a well-known Japanese family and sport those families' crests.

 

[Laminariales]

Spoiler

あーん、団長 （●´∀｀）ノ♡

First thing first, the war helmets for motorcycles is a fantastic idea
that aside not much happening sadly, if I had any self discipline I would let the chapters pile for a while.
Glasses lady what's up with you body? or is that fashion statement?? I realize ohtaka was too hang up over glasses-es since ka kou bun xD

Side note, musashi was pleasantly creepy this chapter

Interestingly enough, Naotora was a female daimyou in the Sengoku period, but Ohtaka decied to make her male. But maybe he's also based onTakeda Nobutora. Both have the Kanji 'Tora=tiger' in their names, and depending on which one Ohtaka went with, he could be 18 or 26. I think there will be other bushidan and each belongs to a well-known Japanese family and sport those families' crests.

That is interesting! I feel mid to late 20s, but sensei why// we need more ladies

 

[Haya-san]

Ch3 summary:


@jirachi85 Since this is a fantasy and Ohtaka wants to have a lot of freedom in portraying the characters, she had to change the names a bit. I'm sure there will be at least one bushidan leader who's female and she might be inspired by the real Ii Naotora.

I get the feeling much like how Alibaba meeting Sinbad led to him learning how to weapon-equip, the main duo meeting the Takeda samurais might lead to them learning a special skill.

 

[Belserion]

I get the feeling much like how Alibaba meeting Sinbad led to him learning how to weapon-equip, the main duo meeting the Takeda samurais might lead to them learning a special skill.

I agree. The Warriors seem to all wear some type of armor that matches the motorcycles, and since Kojirou inherited the bike from his dad maybe there's a way to equip the armor, unless those are passed down too?

In regards to this partnership, I'm hoping to see a shift soon. So far all we've seen is Kojirou watching Musashi fight in awe and comparing him to his dad. I can see him developing an inferiority complex. Hopefully meeting warriors like himself will boost his confidence a bit. I'm also hoping his bloodline is special somehow, because so far Musashi has completely overshadowed him and in a lot of these shounen, we know admiration soon turns into jealousy.

 

[Arjuna]

I bet Kojirou will become a badass later like Alibaba.

Maybe he with gain some fore sword technique also if we are lucky enough t see some flashy great moves.

 

[Laminariales]

@jirachi85 Since this is a fantasy and Ohtaka wants to have a lot of freedom in portraying the characters, she had to change the names a bit. I'm sure there will be at least one bushidan leader who's female and she might be inspired by the real Ii Naotora

Ow thanks for comforting, I'm not complaining as much as caught of guard, since expected the opposite scenario with how male dominated the sengoku era is. Characters' gender doesn't really matter but speaking aesthetic ohtakas female are 95% affinity with me (looking at magnostadt ladies for the rest 5%)

I get the feeling much like how Alibaba meeting Sinbad led to him learning how to weapon-equip, the main duo meeting the Takeda samurais might lead to them learning a special skill.

Exorcism

Reading text only translation the danshou subordinate gave a ryousai vibe xD I expect he's nicer (but his design is hassan or roh roh type those rarely succeed).

I agree. The Warriors seem to all wear some type of armor that matches the motorcycles, and since Kojirou inherited the bike from his dad maybe there's a way to equip the armor, unless those are passed down too?

Oh if that happens you deserve a medal