So? That doesnt make it more impressive than Arthur smashing Mel a significantly larger distance and busting the floor with Mel's body, all without using an attack that Mel is weak to. Like i said, knocking someone back doesnt make you powerful, damaging someone does, Escanor hit Mel midair and he wasnt knocked back nearly as far as against Arthur, Arthur's slash>>Divine Sword Escanor?
It is true that this medium and story in particular may not always adhere to physics especially when it concerns a 5 ft person weighing about a hundred lbs (unless darkness adds weight) breaking solid ground on impact but I would still like to make a point. Friction. There are two of note in this regard: friction of flat surface vs air resistance. Judging from their hair and the apparent movement of the dirt cloud it wasn’t all that windy. Now, Arthur had to overcome air resistance while Eli had to overcome the force of friction against the ground the behemoth of natural physical might that is Mel’s legs could induce from his stable footing. Which opposing force of resistance is greater?
Physics? You can look at it more simply, is it more difficult to slap someone so hard that they're knocked back and break a dresser? Or is it more difficult to smash someone out of the air so hard that they break the ground upon impact?
No point going into it much further but I will say that the bulk of my point was that Mel had nothing preventing him from moving while suspended in air. (disregarding the wings he did not use as they were not used) Ignorance is simplicity’s fallacy.
If by "characters making these comments" you mean what Mael said about Elizabeth, i never asked for proof and i do believe what he said, though according to Demonspeed i interpret it differently to most people. But anyway, i have always held that Elizabeth unhindered by her pacifist ideals could potentially reach AM Mel's level, i think it was one of the first things i said in this thread actually. I also think i said something about Eli's PL being around non-AM Mel's PL, though i wasnt really convinced on that at the time. Doesnt make her speed, durability or general CQC skill good though, or her skills any more combat related than before, i still maintain that Elizabeth is better suited to support than fighting conventional battles like the Sins do.
Oh no no I did not mean to imply you in particular. I meant that once a statement is made it would do very well to have the statement put into a visual perspective. What she can and cannot actually do is something highly desirable. At the very least to me. Ever since chapter one I wanted to know and see the extent of her abilities and her past. But because of the nature of the depiction of her character it has been held back far more than practically any of the main characters. The way I look at things is rather reserved in nature if you will. That is to say there are very few things I perceive as impossible.
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Adrenaline is not a super power.
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I did. Your point?
According to who though? Scientifically it wasn’t though. If you fail to protect yourself that is your fault. By that logic everyone who gets KO’ed doesnt count since they weren’t adequately prepared.
I just told you that it was her fault. These particular question make me question wether you are even reading what I am giving you as I am inclined to believe you would say “likewise.”
Again fight or flight is involuntary. You can’t just think your way out of it or distract your way out of it. Your actions under it may vary, but I’m going with the assumption that Elizabeth is a warrior as stated by the manga and therefore should be accoustomed to battle
Yes fight or flight is a natural reaction. It is fight mode or flight mode. And even so she failed at that time. You portray a warrior as one impervious to “uncharacteristic” folly? Really? Is there anyone that hasn’t been hit at point blank range because they are a warrior. Do you think that arrogance or conceit is the only justifiable reason for such an event?
It has nothing to do with whether she could dodge it or not. I'm not sure how we got on topic to that. The whole point was that the KO was justifiable because there wasn't anything to distract Elizabeth. She was looking right at Deri, had her fight instincts going, and knew that the situation turned dire. Wheteher she dodges it or not doesn't change that I can't think of any reasons why the punch doesn't count. The whole thing was I need a reason as to why it doesn't count. Currently we were discussing carelessness as the reason. I don't believe that carelessness is a reason because it isn't enough to disrupt your body's natural response to danger.
Because the body needs to perceive something as a threat for fight or flight to activate. If you think a situation isn't threatening then odds are it's not going to activate. Thats why people who practice sparring don't flip out. Elizabeth however knew the situation was tense and wasn't acting oblivious, hence her frantic behavior.
Generally speaking yes. It is possible to recondition the body to deal with stress and in an orderly fashion. That's what the army does and that's why they're always yelling. But Elizabeth is a warrior, she should be used to the battlefield by now, Especially if she's Mel tier. If she isn't used to it then that's just her folly and doesn't delegitimize any bad feats, because at the end of the day thats her fault and not something outside like the situation suddenly changing from peaceful to dangerous.
What do you mean whats my point? You brought up King as an argument in Elizabeth's favor and now you're telling me that its unfair to judge her by it, you dont see a problem with that? If you dont think the feats are fair enough to judge both characters by, then maybe you shouldnt use them to make your points.
I already stated she was knocked out because she was hit just right. That being knocked out includes variables. Obstruction to air flow, blood loss, extreme stress, brain trauma and position of impact. This last one in particular maybe of particular note on her KO. In fact it doesn’t necessarily take a stronger person to render one unconscious. The necessary conditions just need to be satisfied. It is the logic behind why mon, who was so largely weaker than estarossa, was able to render him near unconscious (not going into the mechanics of a choke hold). The reason I believe carelessness is of note is because of the negligence to protect these weaknesses of the body. Why do you keep mentioning wether it counts or not? I have repeatedly stated that I do not discount it. One of the invalidities I am addressing here is the use of this one folly, of this slip up, and display of poor performance, as the only necessary example to relegate her combat ability entirely. And again, carelessness is a result of the cognitive functions and reactions within the fight or flight response.
Excuse me but what? I brought up the comparison between Eli and king to establish a relationship in which king, a warrior, performed unsatisfactory given a situation quite similar to Eli’s whereby you would be able to note that taking Kings performance in that moment alone would not be adequate evidence to surmise the extent of his abilities. What are you talking about? If you may be so gentlemanly, may you point me in the direction of my folly so that I may evaluate my error myself?
What slip up though? She did not do anything wrong.
Your "folly" was in using a feat to compare two characters when it suited you but then call it unfair when someone else uses that feat to do the same, you made the comparison, you called the situation similar, you called the results similar. You used it to support your argument for Elizabeth being unprepared or whatever, but now since that comparison also implies that Elizabeth's durability was at King's level its suddenly unfair to use it? But whatever, as you like, i wont argue further on arguments, but i will say on the topic that actually relates to the manga, if Elizabeth received a similar injury from a similar situation then her durability is similar to Kings, if her durability is not similar to King's then the situation is different and this example no longer supports your point.
What slip up? Put up a barrier perhaps. Back up.
Ridiculous. I stated it once and I’ll state it again: “I brought up the comparison between Eli and king to establish a relationship in which king, a warrior, performed unsatisfactory given a situation quite similar to eli’s whereby you would be able to note that taking kings performance in that moment alone would not be adequate evidence to surmise the extent of his abilities. This is precisely because we have been given performances by him, numerous times, that put into perspective the phrase “you can do better than that.” When did I say that it is impossible for her durability to be above, below or on the same level as him? Correct me if I am mistaken but did I not state that there is a possibility for all three of these? I have stated to Schmitty, quite recently, that to induce unconsciousness, certain requirements will have been met. As such, both king and Eli being knocked out does not necessarily give accurate representation of the durability of their bodies. This is where a bulk of the importance lies: the relationship between unconsciousness and durability. We have seen that king can take hits. A testament to his durability. We have not been given the same displays, nor number of, by the original Eli as of now, yet it has begun to the current Eli. That is what I commented on. I did not, as you accuse, relegate these displays to simple unfairness in favor of Eli but have instead noted that one example alone is not the only consideration necessary if we are to confirm, with all accuracy, the extent of that particular aspect they share, since it was not necessarily a testament to it nor have we been given numerous displays for Eli, that disprove it, as we have for king. Are you trying to analyze and discuss with me or are you trying to insult me?
Her being unable to put up a barrier or back up isn’t a negating slip up though. That’s like saying Escanor should’ve fought better against Mel. She couldn’t do it just because Derieri is an extremely effective physical fighter and can hit fast. Elizabeth is more magic based so I don’t expect her to keep up 24/7
You are absolutely all over the place and by extension I maybe as well. Before I express my wishes I would like to state that king was looking at Diane I already told seven777 this.
Ok so my points are
Ok