Discussion New Roles and New Rules Suggestion Thread

[GrySun]

Submissions for new roles need to follow the next format in order to be considered:

I. [Place Holder Name]

II. [Affiliation]

III. [Short Description]

IV. [Long Description/Idea/Premise/Scope]

V. [Priority/RoleType/Interactions/other Specifics]

Spoiler: Examples of Approved roles

I. Troublemaker

II. Town

III. Can once per game make a Day phase lynch be the top 2 voted people instead of regular 1 top voted person. Every player has 2 votes but cannot vote the same player twice.

IV. PMs the host on the night before the day he wishes to use his power on. Host announces at start of day that the 2 top voted players will be lynched.
Everyone gets 2 votes that they can use on 2 individual players. Both can be moved once like usual. Example:
!votekill1 PlayerX
!votekill2 PlayerY
!votelock2 (locks on PlayerY).

Any other format is also fine as long as players specify who they are voting and if it's a new vote or they are changing their first one.

V. Doesn't have a Priority, happens at the end of night after all other actions. Doesn't target another player. Primary role.

Since it happens at the end of a phase, the player can be both blocked and killed to prevent it happening.

I. Psychiatrist

II. Townie

III. The Psychiatrist investigates one person per night phase to see if the player has a Secondary Role. They get a "Your target has a secondary role" if that is the case, and a "Your target does not have a secondary role" if it's not. The Psychiatrist does not find out the allegiance of the target.

IV. It's a counter for scum secondaries without outright revealing them, leaving room for guess work and player reading.

V. Priority 2, Primary Role.

Current roles Approved for testing here

Rules on including those in a game:

• A host can take any of these roles and test them in their game. Depending on results from testing the role it will either be included into the Role list or need more changes/testing.
• A host at the very least has to announce in the opening post of the game that new roles are being tested, or alternatively even more specifically reveal the roles that are being tested.

Link to the last update post with the roles that are either close to approval or were not approved: here.

 

[Vandred]

Erratic (Sanity)

Erratic Detective (Townie) - The Host will use a randomizer to determine the Detective's sanity (Sane, Insane, Naive) for every night phase. The player will not be informed of his/her sanity.

Erratic Doctor (Townie) - The Host will use a randomizer to determine the Erratic Doctor's sanity (Sane, Insane, Naive) for every night phase. The player will not be informed of his/her sanity.

Basically RNG-wise

Detective
Sane, Insane, Naive 100%
Erratic 33%

Doctor
Sane 100% Save
Insane 50% Save, 50% Kill
Erratic 33% Save, 33% Kill, 33% Naivety

Wouldn't that make the Det's results completely worthless? Even though we already have Naive and Paranoid and the obstacles mentioned above, Dets can almost reliably figure out their sanity after a while, or at least cross the troll sanities out. If we add that Erratic variable, that small degree of certainty becomes worthless too, so Det results would become essentially random. Big no from me.

Erratic Doc is a little better, but it's essentially adding a self-block chance to Insane Doc. Neutral tending to a no.

What about a Mafia Version of the Barkeeper but with a possible negative effect to the Mafia?

Moonshine Distiller (Mafia)
The Moonshine Distiller can invite 3, 4 or 5 players to his Underground-bar every night. One random player of the chosen batch ends up being the drunkest and either fails to perform his night action, uses it on a random player or gets told a random role of the Mafia to which the Distiller belongs to. The Moonshine Distiller does get to know the identity of the drunkest visitor, but he doesn't know which of the 3 effects affected him.

So basically like the barkeeper but instead of finding out a role the Distiller gets so drunk of his own moonshine that he reveals a role of his group to the invited drunkard. I changed the last part of Barkeeper from not knowing the identity of the visitor but knowing what effect he got to knowing who got hit but not by what effect. Ofc we could change it to not knowing the identity of the drunkest visitor and knowing what effect affected him or her. Since it is like the Barkeeper I think it wont be too powerful as it cannot block or redirect a certain target.

Sounds more trouble than it's worth? Mafia roles should have the advantage of allowing them to hit targets reliably and with precision in order to allow them to plan carefully and effectively their strategy, or at least that's what I think. Mafia Escort has it beat for the first effect, the redirection would only be useful if you could count on it instead of being a 33% chance to hit another 33% chance that needs to have an active role that happens to be randomly redirected on a target actually capable of producing something good for the mafia team... While the third effect is a downside to an already weak role.

Sorry if I was too harsh with these suggestions But I've started to think for a while that keeping the role list simple and straightforward, as opposed to excessively long, overly complicated and heavy on unreliability and randomness, would make for more enjoyable games overall.

 

[James Rye]

@Vandred
In that case how about a 100% redirect action for the Moonshine Distiller but random target of one of the invites? Then a Mafia Det & Moonshine Distiller would be more useful as the Distiller would want to invite dets adn docs and other night active roles to redirect them. Plus any claims on active or night roles would automatically get a risk of being redirected which already exists thanks to the barkeeper so no problems on that front.

 

[James Rye]

@Vandred
In that case how about a 100% redirect action for the Moonshine Distiller but random target of one of the invites? Then a Mafia Det & Moonshine Distiller would be more useful as the Distiller would want to invite dets adn docs and other night active roles to redirect them. Plus any claims on active or night roles would automatically get a risk of being redirected which already exists thanks to the barkeeper so no problems on that front.

 

[Lawl Po Bia]

A cult(3rd Party)
A cult starts with the cult leader and every night he starts recruiting people, a cult leader dies if he recruits a non-townie player. Townies who got recruited lose all of their active /passive roles and they become acolytes. Acolytes can talk with each other during the night phase but do not know who their cult leader. The cult leader is allowed to read their discussion.As time goes by the bond between acolytes deepens and the cult leader gets a power up. If the cult leader is successful in recruiting 3 people his 1 time kill ability is unlocked. if the cult leader is killed all the acolytes are dying with him, but if the acolyte is killed the rest of the group is fine.

 

[Vandred]

@Vandred
In that case how about a 100% redirect action for the Moonshine Distiller but random target of one of the invites? Then a Mafia Det & Moonshine Distiller would be more useful as the Distiller would want to invite dets adn docs and other night active roles to redirect them. Plus any claims on active or night roles would automatically get a risk of being redirected which already exists thanks to the barkeeper so no problems on that front.

I don't think roles that redirecting actions every night are very appreciated in the first place, since the Hypnotist role (who could do that) was scrapped for good. But this new suggestion is still pretty random x)

On top of that, the issue that Barkeeper doesn't have is that this is a mafia role - so while the Barkeeper is supposed to clear up the doubts about someone having been redirected at least sometimes, the Distiller won't ever want to do that. Then you'd have games where everyone suspects a Distiller having redirected actions until the last mafia is found, and so on. Not a big fan of the role.

A cult(3rd Party)
A cult starts with the cult leader and every night he starts recruiting people, a cult leader dies if he recruits a non-townie player. Townies who got recruited lose all of their active /passive roles and they become acolytes. Acolytes can talk with each other during the night phase but do not know who their cult leader. The cult leader is allowed to read their discussion.As time goes by the bond between acolytes deepens and the cult leader gets a power up. If the cult leader is successful in recruiting 3 people his 1 time kill ability is unlocked. if the cult leader is killed all the acolytes are dying with him, but if the acolyte is killed the rest of the group is fine.

That's a common MG role, isn't it?

I like how the acolytes don't know who the cult leader is, but they all die if he gets lynched It would be pretty easy to overcome that with a simple code, though

Not too sure on the balance between the cult being too frail and too powerful, since the leader recruiting a bunch of townies and then dying or getting nightkilled could end up just being a lucky incident for the mafia team(s). But I think it can be worked with

 

[James Rye]

@Vandred
Alright, no direct redirects then. But could a 3rd party called Drug Dealer do it, maybe also randomly like a rouge Barkeeper who either blocks, redirects or kills somebody at night?
Also maybe the Cult Leader suggestion from Lawl could chose between recruiting or sending an Acolyte on a night kill mission? That way the Leader could start killing after recruiting in night 1 if he thinks that that is better for him than recruiting.

 

[Vandred]

@Vandred
Alright, no direct redirects then. But could a 3rd party called Drug Dealer do it, maybe also randomly like a rouge Barkeeper who either blocks, redirects or kills somebody at night?
Also maybe the Cult Leader suggestion from Lawl could chose between recruiting or sending an Acolyte on a night kill mission? That way the Leader could start killing after recruiting in night 1 if he thinks that that is better for him than recruiting.

Rogue Barkeeper? Sounds like something straight out of a @Farfy nightmare

But you've managed to get a "neutral" from me on that

Need to think some more about cults. I'd like to hear some other opinions on it too.

 

[gnut]

I don't think roles that redirecting actions every night are very appreciated in the first place, since the Hypnotist role (who could do that) was scrapped for good. But this new suggestion is still pretty random x)

On top of that, the issue that Barkeeper doesn't have is that this is a mafia role - so while the Barkeeper is supposed to clear up the doubts about someone having been redirected at least sometimes, the Distiller won't ever want to do that. Then you'd have games where everyone suspects a Distiller having redirected actions until the last mafia is found, and so on. Not a big fan of the role.



That's a common MG role, isn't it?

I like how the acolytes don't know who the cult leader is, but they all die if he gets lynched It would be pretty easy to overcome that with a simple code, though

Not too sure on the balance between the cult being too frail and too powerful, since the leader recruiting a bunch of townies and then dying or getting nightkilled could end up just being a lucky incident for the mafia team(s). But I think it can be worked with

Maybe not all die at once....maybe one each day phase passes away.
Like a suicide deal...idk.

Also....maybe the cult leader should be able to recruit mafias also.
Would put a twist on the religion factor that it effect both good and bad people

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 8, 2018 ---

Perfect role for Jesus to be recruited xD

 

[Lawl Po Bia]

That's a common MG role, isn't it?

I like how the acolytes don't know who the cult leader is, but they all die if he gets lynched It would be pretty easy to overcome that with a simple code, though

Not too sure on the balance between the cult being too frail and too powerful, since the leader recruiting a bunch of townies and then dying or getting nightkilled could end up just being a lucky incident for the mafia team(s). But I think it can be worked with

is it?idk i just wanted a bit more sinister Mason Role

@Copy Panda @GrySun does this sound ok

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 8, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 8, 2018 ---

@gnut its for discussion but I really wanted the cult leader to be engaged in the decision making process that he should choose carefully since it’s not only his neck on the line but the whole cult. I think being able to recruit the mafia will take away an edge from the role. It’s not an underpowered role too since he gets a kill ability later along the line if he is successful enough. But as I said it is up for discussion

 

[GrySun]

The cult sounds like an interesting mix between Mentor and Shapeshifter for third parties, I like it. Though like Vand I‘m not sure if it‘s too strong or too weak, really depends on how the game goes for him. Also, not sure how to organize the part with him being able to read the pad but that he can‘t talk nor the other players talking in the pad know who he is.

Do feel like it‘s a role I‘d want to approve for testing, just to see how it holds up in a test. It‘s like Shapeshifter but weaker since it‘s more risky for the Cultist, while also stronger in a way that the Acolytes don‘t shatter like Illusions and know they‘re a group and try to work together, thus helping the Cultist during day. I can see myself wanting to use both SS and Cultist in some of my games, or feeling like playing as it.

 

[Lawl Po Bia]

I think it can work in discord if we just block his typing ability and he can only read, there are small issues which panda pointed out to me which we will try to overcome

 

[GrySun]

In etherpad you can give him the link on N1, make him pick a stock color and name, and tell him not to write anything. So whenever he reads there it‘s impossible to tell by just name or color.

 

[Copy Panda]

As for Cult Leader, I currently had the following ideas. I'm doing this at Hyungs behest, so these roles are supposed to come as close to his fantasy as possible while maintaining gameplay and diversity aspects. If it's too different (and therefore undesirable) feel free to point out how and why.

I kind of like the idea of a recruiting TP that needs power to do something (honestly Mason Recruiter should have some similar perk) so that there’s something rewarding to being this TP instead of token barrier to victory. The idea of secrecy is pretty fresh too. Need some way to keep that a thing. Maybe make it the goal of the cult to find their leader or something? Hard to say for now

The Cult Leader (3rd Party)

The Cult Leader is the founding member of the Cult and may recruit their first member. The ability to recruit new members is then handled by the Cult. The Cult Leader may not communicate with the Cult at night and so the Cult does not know their leaders identity. Once the Cult recruits more than three members, the Cult Leader may employ a Night Kill instead of recruiting, unilaterally.

The Cult (3rd Party)

The Cult starts with the Cult Leader, who can recruit someone on their first night. The Cult Leader transfers the recruiting ability to their newest recruit, who next night may recruit a new member. The new member then becomes the Recruiting Member. The Cult will die upon recruiting a non-townie or a Mason. Recruited townies lose all their Primary roles and become Cult Members instead. Cult Members may communicate with one another but do not know the identity of the Cult Leader and so cannot communicate with them. Upon the Leaders death, all members are poisoned the following Night Phase and die the Phase thereafter. During this time they can still use their Night Action, however.

 

[James Rye]

Why don't we make it that once a Mason Recruiter got a big enough following that the Masons can vote for who should get a new Mason role like Mason Guard who can bodyguard the Mason Recruiter or Mason Detective etc? That way losing your role isn't so bad because latter you can earn a new rank within the Masons once it is big enough. Like 3 Masons = Unlocking Mason Guard, 5 Mason Detective, etc.

 

[gnut]

Why don't we make it that once a Mason Recruiter got a big enough following that the Masons can vote for who should get a new Mason role like Mason Guard who can bodyguard the Mason Recruiter or Mason Detective etc? That way losing your role isn't so bad because latter you can earn a new rank within the Masons once it is big enough. Like 3 Masons = Unlocking Mason Guard, 5 Mason Detective, etc.

Now that sounds awesome

 

[digitaldude]

tfw not on the council.

 

[Evil3ye]

tfw not on the council.

lucky you don't have to rework all james' submissions for 70 times

 

[Copy Panda]

oof

 

[James Rye]

Now that sounds awesome

You could even make it that you make the group decide not only who gets the role but what role out of two. Basically once the Mason group has 3 masons the Host gives them the decision to decide between the Mason Guard who is basically a Bodyguard but one who can only protect Mason Members or the Mason Investigator who can check on the dead and the actions used on them like a regular investigator. So the Mason Group has to decide between Protection or Information gathering. Same with Mafia Detective, once the group has 4 or 5 members they have to decide between a Detective with the risk of a 25% coin toss deciding whenever it is sane/insane or paranoid/naive or a Mason Nurse who the Masons know is basically a sane Doctor but who can only protect Mason Members. Then there could be other Mason Roles like the Mason Spy, a Mason Boss who is basically a 2nd Mason Recruiter to speed up the member growth and so on.

And this way if you had a not so interesting role at the start of the game you will find the game more exciting as a Mason as you might get a better role and you have what others don't have a "Mason vote" in the Mason group for roles you can only get by growing your group and for who should get said role. Ofc once you have such a Mason Role you cannot take another one in the future.

 

[digitaldude]

I was thinking about the mafia mason what if he doesnt start with the recruiter. So normally if recruiter targets mafia he dies right. What if he targets mafia mason and instead of dying he recruits him thinking he is a townie, but in reality its the mafia mason that infiltrated the masons. Thoughts? This prevents masons just banding together and confirming each other there will always be suspicion on them.