Discussion Official Baam Discussion Thread

[Sakashi]

I personally think that the reason to why Zahard didn’t pick a fight with other irregulars was because of that they didn’t care about him. I mean, look at Urek Mazino. Urek told Baam that he wasn’t interested in the seat of the king. The only thing that matters to Mazino is to get out of the tower and that leads to the question: Does Urek know that Baam is his way out of the tower? If he does which I don’t think, it explains why he doesn’t pick a fight with Zahard but that can change in the future if he gets to know the truth about Baam and chooses to protect him against Zahard.

Furthermore, speaking of Enryu. Why didn’t Enryu just fight Zahard and kill him? I see a lot of questions like these on forums. I personally think that there is more to Zahards contract that we don’t know and that could also explain why a Irregular like Enryu killed a Guardian but not Zahard himself despite how strong he is and his unique Shinsoo quality.

Finally, the reason to why Zahard wants to kill Baam is simple. He is the child in Arlene’s prophecy, that is said to bring truth to the tower and defeat the king.

 

[Ripcord]

I agree that there might be something more to Zahard's immortality contract. Originally we learned that all you need is an irregular to defeat Zahard, however when Rachel was talking to Wangnan she mentioned that collecting the thorn fragments might be the clue to defeating Zahard's immortality.

If Zahard has some sort of guide-like ability then you would need something that operates outside of that to defeat him. Makes me think that Emily is FUG’s plan B if Bam doesn’t work out.

 

[shaheer]

I suspect Bams moves (25 th bam series) would be akin to Vs. Given his main teachers are from Fug and i believe that Fugs original techs are from V i guess his new attacks that he creates would have those stuffs that he learned from Fug.
With regards to what his talents are its myriad it seems. The only thing he has for sure is gluttony.

 

[Brian Taboada]

Sui said it somewhere that Baams powers will be beyond heretical and border almost on magic. Meaning that he will be able to do things that are that are not only outside the rules of the tower (for regulars) but completely beyond comprehension to everyone.

I also think Zahard has been waiting for Baam or someone like him. Even though Baam did not seem like someone who was going to go directly against the king, it is by the nature of who Baam is that he will be the one who Zahard has feared all along.

 

[kkck]

This is my take on this:

1.- We simply don't know what the black stuff is. Its not necessarily a shinsoo quality in that regard. It could easily just be what bam's shinsoo looks like. If it is a shinsoo quality, it would be a secondary one since his primary one is the orb which as far as we know does not have a shinsoo quality like lighting. There is also the question of whether there is a difference for the user between shinsoo attributes/shapes. As in, is the first one the "primary" one and thus the strongest or are all equally powerful for the user.

2.- Spells and shinsoo control are entirely different things. Of course, spells can potentially affect shinsoo as far as we know but the basis for spells does not appear to be shinsoo. Bam having the ability to apparently nullify spells around him is... remarkable. It could be what will eventually allow bam to kill zahard if contracts are similar to spells for some reason.

3.- Bam already has way too much stuff going for him ability wise. He doesn't need more. He has astonishing growth rate, talent, the thorn, everything he has devoured... Going a bit further, he needs to get rid of stuff, bam has so much stuff its essentially bloatware at this point. Why the fuck does he need a data viole within him? The souls? Thrysas? Just puke it out and let it die. Heck, bam does not even learn by... "learning". He learned martial arts by essentially getting punched a lot without even putting an iota of the work his peers would require. Technically speaking bam has no peers for that matter.

 

[Ripcord]

This is my take on this:

1.- We simply don't know what the black stuff is. Its not necessarily a shinsoo quality in that regard. It could easily just be what bam's shinsoo looks like. If it is a shinsoo quality, it would be a secondary one since his primary one is the orb which as far as we know does not have a shinsoo quality like lighting. There is also the question of whether there is a difference for the user between shinsoo attributes/shapes. As in, is the first one the "primary" one and thus the strongest or are all equally powerful for the user.

2.- Spells and shinsoo control are entirely different things. Of course, spells can potentially affect shinsoo as far as we know but the basis for spells does not appear to be shinsoo. Bam having the ability to apparently nullify spells around him is... remarkable. It could be what will eventually allow bam to kill zahard if contracts are similar to spells for some reason.

3.- Bam already has way too much stuff going for him ability wise. He doesn't need more. He has astonishing growth rate, talent, the thorn, everything he has devoured... Going a bit further, he needs to get rid of stuff, bam has so much stuff its essentially bloatware at this point. Why the fuck does he need a data viole within him? The souls? Thrysas? Just puke it out and let it die. Heck, bam does not even learn by... "learning". He learned martial arts by essentially getting punched a lot without even putting an iota of the work his peers would require. Technically speaking bam has no peers for that matter.

I agree with you for the most part. Regarding shinsoo quality, color seems to be tied to the quality and that is why I think the black shinsoo is exactly his quality.

I think that the Viole in him still represents that part of himself and is more symbolic than a source of power. The many souls from Hoaqin seem to be extraneous.

The administrators (Thryssas) in him seem to be merging into a single entity. And the sun in him appears to be his own power but now he has his white line....



If Bam can suddenly use spells it would probably be too much. More likely he will incorporate spell-like techniques into what he already knows rather than just make something unique. For example he won’t be using the spells we just saw Levi use anytime soon. As far as we know Bam can’t copy spells.

 

[kkck]

I agree with you for the most part. Regarding shinsoo quality, color seems to be tied to the quality and that is why I think the black shinsoo is exactly his quality.

I think that the Viole in him still represents that part of himself and is more symbolic than a source of power. The many souls from Hoaqin seem to be extraneous.

The administrators (Thryssas) in him seem to be merging into a single entity. And the sun in him appears to be his own power but now he has his white line....



If Bam can suddenly use spells it would probably be too much. More likely he will incorporate spell-like techniques into what he already knows rather than just make something unique. For example he won’t be using the spells we just saw Levi use anytime soon. As far as we know Bam can’t copy spells.

Yeah but... What is the blackness there? Shinsoo qualities so far seem to be electricity, ice, fire... And they of course behave as said elements. Bam's black shinsoo does not seem to have any given specific characteristic to it. Odds are decent at least that bam's shinsoo turns black... just because. Eduan's shinsoo is blue because of lightning and zahards is gold because of his golden needle but that doesn't mean every single color out there has an elemental property to it. We just saw bam's orb lacking anything like electricity and we also have androsi's needle thingies which are pink but also do not seem to have any quality. They are just pink.

 

[Ripcord]

Yeah but... What is the blackness there? Shinsoo qualities so far seem to be electricity, ice, fire... And they of course behave as said elements. Bam's black shinsoo does not seem to have any given specific characteristic to it. Odds are decent at least that bam's shinsoo turns black... just because. Eduan's shinsoo is blue because of lightning and zahards is gold because of his golden needle but that doesn't mean every single color out there has an elemental property to it. We just saw bam's orb lacking anything like electricity and we also have androsi's needle thingies which are pink but also do not seem to have any quality. They are just pink.

There have been many posts relating color to specific families and what they mean. Some are more obvious than others. I think someone as high detailed as you tend to be can appreciate that authors should be consistent when they introduce a system such as shinsoo color. I would find it bad writing if SIU had shinsoo color mean something some of the time and mean nothing at others. I know he mentioned making it easier to see who is doing what in a battle, but he’s added to that and so far all the top players seem to use it. This list includes branch family members not listed (such as Nobic).

Koon - blue, electricity
- blue/white, ice
- unknown third quality

Ha - red, strength/power?
- green (Yuri), acid/anti-acid??

Zahard - gold, durability

Hachid - purple, corruption/souls power

Arie - white, spatial manipulation/cutting

V - black, consumption/disintegration (makes sense his would be the opposite of Zahard)

Eurasia - blue, water (Laure’s attack on Beta)

Mazino - yellow, light (though not the same as Shinwonryu)

Yeon - reddish orange, fire

Blitz - reddish orange, fire

 

[Jammin]

I have a theory for what Baam's "power" is but it's hard to put into words because it's a Chinese wuxia concept usually translated as a "domain" or "territory".

It's not an easy concept to explain but I'll try by putting it like this...

Imagine, if you will, that the shinsoo under Baam's influence recognizes him as king/god. It is like his "kingdom". And like a kingdom it obeys it's king, can conquer more territory. and will resist any influence aside from it's king. This is why he can control it so well, why he is resistant to spells, and why he could kill Zahard. Because his shinsoo is an instrument of his will and only obeys his laws and will accept no ruler but him.

This I think matches up with what we know about Baam's powers. I think his power is to influence and conquer shinsoo.

 

[Ripcord]

I have a theory for what Baam's "power" is but it's hard to put into words because it's a Chinese wuxia concept usually translated as a "domain" or "territory".

It's not an easy concept to explain but I'll try by putting it like this...

Imagine, if you will, that the shinsoo under Baam's influence recognizes him as king/god. It is like his "kingdom". And like a kingdom it obeys it's king, can conquer more territory. and will resist any influence aside from it's king. This is why he can control it so well, why he is resistant to spells, and why he could kill Zahard. Because his shinsoo is an instrument of his will and only obeys his laws and will accept no ruler but him.

This I think matches up with what we know about Baam's powers. I think his power is to influence and conquer shinsoo.

So then would you guess that the thorn amplifies the shinsoo quality of the user? SIU has stated that each person would have a different effect. It seems Bam is able to exert more influence over nearby shinsoo when he uses it.

 

[shaheer]

Imagine, if you will, that the shinsoo under Baam's influence recognizes him as king/god. It is like his "kingdom". And like a kingdom it obeys it's king, can conquer more territory. and will resist any influence aside from it's king. This is why he can control it so well, why he is resistant to spells, and why he could kill Zahard. Because his shinsoo is an instrument of his will and only obeys his laws and will accept no ruler but him.

Isnt that what an exis basically is? I dont think SIU will get exis into this story the Bam would be too op.

 

[Jammin]

So then would you guess that the thorn amplifies the shinsoo quality of the user? SIU has stated that each person would have a different effect. It seems Bam is able to exert more influence over nearby shinsoo when he uses it.

Pretty much. Though I think in Baam's case his Shinsoo quality (the black shinsoo) is essentially a condensed version of that for maximum effect. I think all the shinsoo he controls has that characteristic to some degree. But that stuff is focused projection of his will.

I expect him to gain more qualities later and that those will also share that trait but not to the degree his black shinsoo does. Meaning it will resist opposing shinsoo control skills.

Isnt that what an exis basically is? I dont think SIU will get exis into this story the Bam would be too op.

No, what I'm talking about isn't like that. An axis is basically a god. Baam is no god.

If I'm correct in my theory Baam's power makes him simply a small independent sphere of power. And his quality allows him to project that. It's as limited by strength as any other power but the only rules that can bind it would be ones of his own creation. Even if he grows massively strong he won't be like an Axis. He would be more like an unbound guardian but I doubt he'll ever reach that level.

 

[kkck]

I have a theory for what Baam's "power" is but it's hard to put into words because it's a Chinese wuxia concept usually translated as a "domain" or "territory".

It's not an easy concept to explain but I'll try by putting it like this...

Imagine, if you will, that the shinsoo under Baam's influence recognizes him as king/god. It is like his "kingdom". And like a kingdom it obeys it's king, can conquer more territory. and will resist any influence aside from it's king. This is why he can control it so well, why he is resistant to spells, and why he could kill Zahard. Because his shinsoo is an instrument of his will and only obeys his laws and will accept no ruler but him.

This I think matches up with what we know about Baam's powers. I think his power is to influence and conquer shinsoo.

That sounds like you are building up to shinsoo being bam's axis territory.

 

[Vitala]

For me baam power is very annoying for a MC, i find him similar to ichigo from bleach but with way more power up, so for me i think we don't even know what is his true power, in he beginning he could just copy techniques at sight, that was already too op, but SIU started to add anything he can in baam, red skeleton, thorn ( now there is 4 fragments), blue demon, red thyrissa, hoaqin souls, the sun inside him, he can absorb every attack shinsoo related, he has high shinsoo resistance higher than the majority in the tower, he has immunity agaisnt spell for a reason we don't know, has an orb as his form, has a great tension, i'am sure i forgot somethings .

 

[Ripcord]

That sounds like you are building up to shinsoo being bam's axis territory.

It depends on your perspective. As far as I recall, the weakest axis can defeat even the most powerful non-axis. Bam’s ability’s effectiveness does seem to scale with power levels as @Jammin suggests. It’s possible that if he gets competent enough with his ability that he can exert control over anyone regardless of power level but for now he’s constrained by that.

 

[Jammin]

That sounds like you are building up to shinsoo being bam's axis territory.

I just don't think I'm explaining it well enough because it's not that. And I'm not sure how to. It's a weird concept and I can't think of a good manga parallel.

The clearest way I think I can say it would be that I think his black shinsoo contains his "will".

It depends on your perspective. As far as I recall, the weakest axis can defeat even the most powerful non-axis. Bam’s ability’s effectiveness does seem to scale with power levels as @Jammin suggests. It’s possible that if he gets competent enough with his ability that he can exert control over anyone regardless of power level but for now he’s constrained by that.

Not quite. See functionally, if what I'm suggesting is correct, then his shinsoo would work very similarly to everybody else's. His control of it would just be a deeper level than an ordinary person can achieve and allow it to do things other shinsoo can't.

To throw out a practical example (because that's easier to explain)...

Say a normal regular is fighting somebody with a strong defensive shinsoo. They use a powerful attack exceed the defensive ability and pierce it. To overpower it.

If somebody with the ability I'm suggestion was doing the same thing. They could use their attack to break down or conquer the shinsoo forming the defense itself. And once the attack is delivered it would likely be difficult to heal since the residual shinsoo would be in conflict with the target's shinsoo.

Does any of that make sense?

 

[Ripcord]

I just don't think I'm explaining it well enough because it's not that. And I'm not sure how to. It's a weird concept and I can't think of a good manga parallel.

The clearest way I think I can say it would be that I think his black shinsoo contains his "will".

Not quite. See functionally, if what I'm suggesting is correct, then functionally his shinsoo would work very similarly to everybody else's. His control of it would just be a deeper level than an ordinary person can achieve and allow it to do things other shinsoo can't.

To throw out a practical example (because that's easier to explain)...

Say a normal regular is fighting somebody with a strong defensive shinsoo. They use a powerful attack exceed the defensive ability and pierce it. To overpower it.

If somebody with the ability I'm suggestion was doing the same thing. They could use their attack to break down or conquer the shinsoo forming the defense itself. And once the attack is delivered it would likely be difficult to heal since the residual shinsoo would be in conflict with the target's shinsoo.

Does any of that make sense?

And to go along with what you’re saying, if the person he’s fighting has a strong enough defense he can’t break it down.

 

[Jammin]

And to go along with what you’re saying, if the person he’s fighting has a strong enough defense he can’t break it down.

Correct.

But where a defense would be impossible to break for ordinary shinsoo he could essentially drill through it with a concentrated enough attack because his attacks don't just hit on a physical level but on the level of the shinsoo itself. Which is why an immortal person could be harmed by it.

Am I making sense here or just talking nonsense? It's hard to tell sometimes.

 

[Ripcord]

Correct.

But where a defense would be impossible to break for ordinary shinsoo he could essentially drill through it with a concentrated enough attack because his attacks don't just hit on a physical level but on the level of the shinsoo itself. Which is why an immortal person could be harmed by it.

Am I making sense here or just talking nonsense? It's hard to tell sometimes.

The difference is like this:

When Maschenny sent out lightning and Jinsung sent out Red Drop the lightning and red mist are made of shinsoo but they act on each other as if they were lightning and whatever red mist is....

If Bam were to send out his black shinsoo against Maschenny’s lightning, Bam’s attack doesn’t interact with her attack as if it were lightning, rather his attack goes after the fundamental shinsoo at the heart of the attack.

In a sense it’s similar to how Hungry Ghost realm absorbed any chakra based attack no matter the elemental makeup of the attack, whereas most chakra based attacks interact on the surface level (fire vs water).

I get what you’re saying and yet it is very hard to explain XD.

 

[GOOMOONRYONG]

Wow, you guys have been very busy with the discussion I never thought my post would have this many responses haha

I like your take on Baam's power Jammin, I could definitely see that as a possibility.