I was thinking about the mafia mason what if he doesnt start with the recruiter. So normally if recruiter targets mafia he dies right. What if he targets mafia mason and instead of dying he recruits him thinking he is a townie, but in reality its the mafia mason that infiltrated the masons. Thoughts? This prevents masons just banding together and confirming each other there will always be suspicion on them.
I actually thought about that once too. Starting masons are always very suspicious of there being a mafia mason, but changing him to also be recruitable opens up some more options, though not sure how hard it is for him to get recruited early enough. Would support that change.
And even without that rule there‘s some funny stuff that can be done there as host in a setup.
Some recycled ideas of mine and one inspired by Evil:
Basically a Badass Cowboy version who does his thing at night but due unlike the BC not having the safety of being confirmed as sure-proven townie once he has done a hunt the BH gets an extra vote as reward if he risks a night kill and does get a mafia or 3rd party role. if he kills a townie then that is punishment enough plus he is risking his own life doing the kill action so no reason to give further punishment as death is the ultimate punishment in this game anyway.
I took the idea of the Ghoul and Necromancer and put them together. Now the Ghoul is a corpse eater, as it is from folk tales and video games, who after eating the flesh of his fellow evil members gain their abilities for one night phase. This way an early killed Janitor for example can still be "reused" by the Ghoul at least once. The whole can only eat OR do an action helps to make the Ghoul not powerful. I added the 3rd roles because then the Ghoul becomes a fun Mafia character who actually makes use of dead 3rd party roles. Ofc, it can be left out if seen as too strong as that he can only eat Mafia roles, which alone should be fun given we have usually 2 different mafias so the red ghoul mafia could eat the orange mafia to use the ability once. Then there is the passive Mafia Bomb role which the Ghoul can't actively use so I think that if the Ghoul eats the Mafia Bomb he just becomes a Bomb basically till he dies as the action of the bomb has to be activated by killing the Ghoul.
All in all I think the Ghoul will be a very fun role to play plus it is a role that actually works better the worse things go for mafia/3rd parties as it gets more choices of what to eat and reuse the lost abilities at least once more.
The Idea is to have a Mastermind who tries to recruit all 3rd roles in the game and win it as a team of evil on their own against the mafias and townies. Due the MM having a kill or recruit ability the league needs no extra kill action and since the 3rd roles keep their abilities to kill or hand out presents the league becomes a 3rd party chance to win as a SK has problems to win on his own but once he gains a partner who can also kill or get them a 3rd and 4th partner then the chances of Sk winning a game skyrocks.
Also this way with the Mastermind more 3rd role suggestions (Like my Beauty and Rival/Beauty Lover suggestion, the Arsonist suggestion, Shapeshifter, rouge Barkeeper) become more available and plausible as on their own they have hard times winning but put a MM into the game who happens to find them before they are killed or lynched and the game goes differently. Plus I noticed that we get more than 1 3rd roles in our latest mafia games so why not make it that there is a role who can unite all those different 3rd role under one common goal: To win the game!
So what are your thoughts on those 3 roles? They sound good, right? They don't sound OP, right? (expect maybe Mastermind but he gonna have a hard time finding the 3rd roles before they are killed and even united they still risk losing by being killed by mafias or lynched by townies.
Some recycled ideas of mine and one inspired by Evil:
Basically a Badass Cowboy version who does his thing at night but due unlike the BC not having the safety of being confirmed as sure-proven townie once he has done a hunt the BH gets an extra vote as reward if he risks a night kill and does get a mafia or 3rd party role. if he kills a townie then that is punishment enough plus he is risking his own life doing the kill action so no reason to give further punishment as death is the ultimate punishment in this game anyway.
I took the idea of the Ghoul and Necromancer and put them together. Now the Ghoul is a corpse eater, as it is from folk tales and video games, who after eating the flesh of his fellow evil members gain their abilities for one night phase. This way an early killed Janitor for example can still be "reused" by the Ghoul at least once. The whole can only eat OR do an action helps to make the Ghoul not powerful. I added the 3rd roles because then the Ghoul becomes a fun Mafia character who actually makes use of dead 3rd party roles. Ofc, it can be left out if seen as too strong as that he can only eat Mafia roles, which alone should be fun given we have usually 2 different mafias so the red ghoul mafia could eat the orange mafia to use the ability once. Then there is the passive Mafia Bomb role which the Ghoul can't actively use so I think that if the Ghoul eats the Mafia Bomb he just becomes a Bomb basically till he dies as the action of the bomb has to be activated by killing the Ghoul.
All in all I think the Ghoul will be a very fun role to play plus it is a role that actually works better the worse things go for mafia/3rd parties as it gets more choices of what to eat and reuse the lost abilities at least once more.
The Idea is to have a Mastermind who tries to recruit all 3rd roles in the game and win it as a team of evil on their own against the mafias and townies. Due the MM having a kill or recruit ability the league needs no extra kill action and since the 3rd roles keep their abilities to kill or hand out presents the league becomes a 3rd party chance to win as a SK has problems to win on his own but once he gains a partner who can also kill or get them a 3rd and 4th partner then the chances of Sk winning a game skyrocks.
Also this way with the Mastermind more 3rd role suggestions (Like my Beauty and Rival/Beauty Lover suggestion, the Arsonist suggestion, Shapeshifter, rouge Barkeeper) become more available and plausible as on their own they have hard times winning but put a MM into the game who happens to find them before they are killed or lynched and the game goes differently. Plus I noticed that we get more than 1 3rd roles in our latest mafia games so why not make it that there is a role who can unite all those different 3rd role under one common goal: To win the game!
So what are your thoughts on those 3 roles? They sound good, right? They don't sound OP, right? (expect maybe Mastermind but he gonna have a hard time finding the 3rd roles before they are killed and even united they still risk losing by being killed by mafias or lynched by townies.
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Wasn't apprentice my idea or do I remember that incorrectly?
Not really sure what you mean by got inspired by me, but perhaps save the explains here for after the current games is done.
Anyways, I kind of like the Mastermind as an idea. Personally I don't think he needs to be told who the other 3rd roles are. IMO it has a viable chance to win as it is. What needs to be worked out is the interaction with the Mafia Lover, as in will he get removed from the other team, will the mafia team know about that etc. Also not sure about the Mentor-double recruit. But generally I see the Mastermind as third party Mason Recruiter with killing ability which could be quite cool.
Bounty Hunter could work with the 50:50 chance each night. I don't think there need to be a mafia kill reward though. That would unbalance the game for this roll too much in favour for the town. So perhaps rename it in like... a crazy kamikaze person or something?
This Ghoul thing really throwing me off, I don't know, too much shit can happen and it's very complicated to deal with. I would scrap that completely and start somehow anew... taking only one element at the time, like if you wanna use this graveyard mechanic things.
Not really sure what you mean by got inspired by me, but perhaps save the explains here for after the current games is done.
Anyways, I kind of like the Mastermind as an idea. Personally I don't think he needs to be told who the other 3rd roles are. IMO it has a viable chance to win as it is. What needs to be worked out is the interaction with the Mafia Lover, as in will he get removed from the other team, will the mafia team know about that etc. Also not sure about the Mentor-double recruit. But generally I see the Mastermind as third party Mason Recruiter with killing ability which could be quite cool.
Bounty Hunter could work with the 50:50 chance each night. I don't think there need to be a mafia kill reward though. That would unbalance the game for this roll too much in favour for the town. So perhaps rename it in like... a crazy kamikaze person or something?
This Ghoul thing really throwing me off, I don't know, too much shit can happen and it's very complicated to deal with. I would scrap that completely and start somehow anew... taking only one element at the time, like if you wanna use this graveyard mechanic things.
All right, Mastermind with just ability to recruit 3rd roles into his league is all I need anyway. As long as it means we get a bigger variant of 3rd roles down the line as well.
Hm, I think I got just the name for a Townie role like that:
I added the townie kill as a little punishment to balance the reward for killing a mafia. Though ofc, we can just delete both, townie punishment and mafia reward, and just have a "Badass Cowboy" version for the night phase for Townies.^^
Am fine with making the Ghoul simpler as long as he keeps his graveyard mechanic as that is a resource we have only a single role about so far. Giving the Mafia one if the Townie have one seems fair to me.
There, now the Ghoul can only eat active Mafia roles, meaning roles that actually have an action. So Bomb, Boss and the like has no meaning of being eaten by the Ghoul. Much simpler yet still fun and kind of important depending on the roles he eats, isn't it? A good role, isn't it?
As for the Bounty Hunter I think I can change it into a 3rd role that is not OP but would ofc be lovely to be recruited by the Mastermind:
I think the BH in THIS setting is interesting because he would need the townies to fail to lynch too many mafias or 3rd roles else he cannot win the game on his own. His goal is achieveable esp. if he manages to survive long into the game to guess the real townies and possible criminals, so it is a cool 3rd role that has a good chance of winning if played cool and level-headed and a bit lucky. Unlike the Happy-trigger Cop, he gets only a punishment and no reward as he has a 100% kill chance. Since he is supposed to be on the side of law but also an unlawful fellow he can kill townies but will get punished by it as every night missed kill is one less chance to cross a Bounty of his list. I am also thinking of giving the BH a list at the start by the Host who tells him 3 randomly chosen of the available Mafia/3rd roles in the game, but just like with the Mastermind, this role would not need it to be fun. I think this role is like a serial killer but with shackles and a beatable challenge so it will be very fun to add to the game without gamebreaking the game like the Shapeshifter did for example.
Speaking of the Shapeshifter I think I go and change his role and his Illusion secondary role as well while I am at it:
The idea is basically the same as with the Gambler was with the Noble where it came down to take votes or have townies win additional ones. In this case, the politician. For the Mafia changing votes would be too strong, but for a lonesome 3rd role (depending if the Mastermind doesn't manage to recruit the Shapeshifter that is.) it is actually a challenging yet cool feature. The politician is interesting as he could make mafias vote for their own buddies or have them receive 3 penalty votes which depending on the state of the game can be a death sentence. So the idea for the Shapeshifter is to bide his time, thus the hiding to protect himself ability with all the ups and downs like a regular hider, and gather his forces to start killing off his competition at the right time, thus the Illusion ability where he kill a player but keeps the player in-game as an unknowing Illusion. Ofc, if said Illusion receives too many pms to change his vote or notices that his actions bear no result he might get suspicious. Those "illusions" are "perfect", meaning all the Shapeshifter can do is try to manipulate them, thus the "politician like action" of his but only in regards to his Illusions, but he cannot control them like puppets, so getting too many Illusions too early could backfire for the Shapeshifter if people notice he is in-game and start looking to shatter his Illusions. I think the change makes the Shapeshifter a less killer and more hiding 3rd role who has to get his timing down right t start putting Illusions up as he would rather want Illusions with passive roles as they won't notice a change in their actions as they have none. The most fun part about this role though is that the Shapeshifter could kill and replace a Mafia with an Illusion and the Mafia sends said Illusion out to kill somebody which ofc will automatically fail as no Illusion's action will bear any result. However to make the game still fun and meaningful for the unaware Illusions, their VOTE still matters. And this is where the Shapeshifters ability to manipulate comes in as unlike the politician he could influence several Illusions but a) with the risk that the more Illusions he gets the sooner his cover gets blown and b) the Illusions rather taking the 3 penalty votes than following his order.
So the Shapeshifter got an interesting ability which is not OP as he is on his own and his fellas are really brittle and he has an ability to protect himself but depending on his target, he could still die at night.
You guys think this change is better than the huge wall of texts from before? This way the Illusions could still play the game and have an impact as well if the Shapeshifter decides it is better for his cover to let them roam freely.
Do the illusions win with the shape shifter? Or are they just there to do their bidding?
Also, I don't think it's wise to have it deal with voting. Nor do I think that the shape shifter should be able to hide behind anything else but illusions. Given that they're illusions, ignoring voting and the like, maybe make it so that their night action simply doesn't work? Like, as if they're blocked, essentially. While they're under the spell of the shape shifter, they're technically quantities for them, but if the SS dies, they're town again? Roles shouldn't be locusts of power, they should disrupt the game around them.
Do the illusions win with the shape shifter? Or are they just there to do their bidding?
Also, I don't think it's wise to have it deal with voting. Nor do I think that the shape shifter should be able to hide behind anything else but illusions. Given that they're illusions, ignoring voting and the like, maybe make it so that their night action simply doesn't work? Like, as if they're blocked, essentially. While they're under the spell of the shape shifter, they're technically quantities for them, but if the SS dies, they're town again? Roles shouldn't be locusts of power, they should disrupt the game around them.
Well, the Illusions are part of the Shapeshifter so I would say yes. I mean, they would win without knowing it and it could be a mix of townies, Mafias and possible other 3rd roles but yes they would win.
Good idea about making the Shapeshifter hide behind Illusions! Fits its name and would make it actually necessary to kill somebody to even have a place to hide and since one place to hide might be too risky the Shapeshifter could be prone to get some more hiding places even if it means risking blowing his cover. Also I did wrote that Illusions are basically blocked as they get no results from their actions. Given what you said though you mean that the Illusion is more like "enchanted"`? In that case wouldn't it actually be good to make the turned aware that they are under an Illusion but that they like it as in they changed team and became a 3rd role in this case an "illusion" or better said are under an illusion?
Well, if you want less killing roles (which is real hard for 3rd role I tell ya, though the Shapeshifter could be changed into more of a recruiting and less of a killing one I suppose) I would have the idea of a Townie Deputy who can gets recruited aka revealed instead of killed if killed by Badass Cowboy, Vigilante Townie or Mafia Assassin. Basically a recruit role that runs counter to some but not all killing roles.
@FaustXIII i see you asking for feedback in like every thread, i pity you, so i'll give my feedback for all its worth...
I like your mafia roles the most. Though i don't know what the point of the Godfather would be, in terms of strategy. At the end of the day the roles will still be the same, and as i see it, the only benefit of swaping the roles around the members would be to please them. Like, player A prefers that particular role and feels he'd do a better job at it than player B. But in order to do that and plan all of this, the Godfather would need to talk to his team before... Maybe thanks to the Mastermind. As i see it, the Godfather would'nt be that useful otherwise, if you can't plan it with your teammates.
The Mastermind seems cool, i like it.
In your townie roles, i like the Coast Guard the most, since it can be a good counter to Pirate/Mafia Pirate, especially the Mafia Pirate. I don't see the point of countering the Townie Pirate if you (the Coast Guard) is townie yourself. And this is the problem i have with your other roles (Witch Hunter, Pimp, Alcoholic). It feels like only countering your own teammates. Especially the Pimp.
I don't know what to expect from the Alcoholic, i mean the barkeeper is such a unique role and based on luck a lot, with an Alcoholic one might be able to create strategies with the Barkeeper. Never played BK so i can't tell if Alcoholic could be beneficial in some way.
The Witch Hunter's only use is to lynch a townie and make this townie's role useless... If that isn't screwing your own team over i don't know what is.
The therapist is interesting, it could be a nice addition tbh. The problem i see is how long it would take to be useful. First one player (having a sanity) would have to find who the therapist is, which can already take a while, up to maybe D2 or D3. Then it would take a "therapy session" to get his sanity changed "over a period of time". It feels like way too long for it to be worth it. Might be a good idea to change this a bit.
That's it for my feedback; being a pretty new and unskilled player, you might take my points with a grain of salt.
I like your mafia roles the most. Though i don't know what the point of the Godfather would be, in terms of strategy. At the end of the day the roles will still be the same, and as i see it, the only benefit of swaping the roles around the members would be to please them. Like, player A prefers that particular role and feels he'd do a better job at it than player B.
But then again there are well established players in this community. As The Godfather wouldn't you want to swap the roles that fits your teammates's skills and tendencies?
For example, you wouldn't want a Mafia Assassin in the hands of an impulsive player if you have the opportunity to give to another mafia teammate that can use the assassinations well.
Most established players might also attract unwanted attention just like in the case of @MidoBan's who dies/gets lynched on Day 1/Night 1 for consecutive games because some players were threatened by his skills. He is still probably the most skilled player in MH ever. Too bad he isn't active anymore.
Placing the more important roles to players who might not get least suspicion or can handle suspicions well might give the Mafia team a better chance of winning don't you think?
But in order to do that and plan all of this, the Godfather would need to talk to his team before... Maybe thanks to the Mastermind. As i see it, the Godfather would'nt be that useful otherwise, if you can't plan it with your teammates.
The Mastermind seems cool, i like it.
Merging The Godfather and Mafia Mastermind into one role is actually a good idea!
In your townie roles, i like the Coast Guard the most, since it can be a good counter to Pirate/Mafia Pirate, especially the Mafia Pirate. I don't see the point of countering the Townie Pirate if you (the Coast Guard) is townie yourself. And this is the problem i have with your other roles (Witch Hunter, Pimp, Alcoholic). It feels like only countering your own teammates. Especially the Pimp.
I don't know what to expect from the Alcoholic, i mean the barkeeper is such a unique role and based on luck a lot, with an Alcoholic one might be able to create strategies with the Barkeeper. Never played BK so i can't tell if Alcoholic could be beneficial in some way.
The Witch Hunter's only use is to lynch a townie and make this townie's role useless... If that isn't screwing your own team over i don't know what is.
Yeah I suggested most of them as counters to roles that hasn't have a counter already, for some sort of balance in the mix.
Townie roles in my opinion should only be counters to Mafia/3rd Party roles
That's why we have for example Sickly and Healthy, Townie Bomb and Bomb Diffuser
Certain interactions with Townie that counters other Townie might make a game more interesting actually.
The therapist is interesting, it could be a nice addition tbh. The problem i see is how long it would take to be useful. First one player (having a sanity) would have to find who the therapist is, which can already take a while, up to maybe D2 or D3. Then it would take a "therapy session" to get his sanity changed "over a period of time". It feels like way too long for it to be worth it. Might be a good idea to change this a bit.
Yeah I can't come up with a reasonable time period myself. Maybe hosts who've hosted games that dragged on for several day/night phases or games who've had a lot of players might have a good insight on how long the therapy should last.
Therapist I tried to get such a guy into the game 3 times each with a different name like Quacksalber, Headscrewer or Therapist. Each time it was denied. Dunno if this try can get through. A townie role to find out dets or doc sanitys soon is pretty strong as the det no longer need to wait for deaths to know his sanity plus if the therapist can change a naive into a sane det then it is a very strong role for townie to have. Maybe if it has a 3 unbroken therapy session or something where he then finds out the original sanity and can change it if he wants it but then the sanity gets "rerolled" which is basically a 50:50 on either getting sane/insane or crap. But ofc the new sanity is not known to either of the two roles.
Dunno about the Alcoholic. If you want a role to mess with the BK it should be a Mafia role in my book as it is a very weak and annoying role so it should at least belong to the Team that could profit from it a little bit. That way the passive Mafia role would block one of the chosen roles of the BK by random, without the BK knowing that one of his chosen players got replaced by the Alcoholic or Drunkard and if the BK finds out the Mafia Role it doesn't really help him as the Alcoholic is only a passive Mafia Role meant to annoy and hinder the BK till he is dead or lynched.
Witch Hunter Hmmmm, I get what you mean, but come on. The Witch is already such a weak role, nearly all roles are weak in my book when they are passive because then the players don't have anything active to do expect posting and voting and guessing who's mafia and who's not. And in regards to the Witch we do have the Mason Recruiter who can turn the Witch into a Mason and join a group where she could be more useful in the long run. So I don't see the need for such a specific role.
Pimp No, big no from me. Every player who is the prostitute would kill the Pimp if they could. A player playing another player's role is beyond evil and unnecessary. However, the idea of a role that solely exists to "redirect" targets, either randomly or chosen, is a funny one. Maybe I like it because I was the one who introduced that kind of action with the BK and his 33% redirect change to a random target.
I would name that role Director for example. The Director would be a townie role with the night ability to redirect his targets action, if the target has an action or even used it that night, on a target of his chosen. Kinda like this "I chose James Rye to target GrySun" as pm to the host. If I have an action and use it this night, like on Holt, then in truth it gets redirected without me knowing or maybe with me getting a pm that my target did got redirected but not at who. Though that kind of message would be too good for Director as he could prove himself too easily. This action redirecting could also be used for Mafia but here as a 50:50 chance 50% chance to succeed like the Director or 50% for the target to get told that somebody tried to redirect their target but failed. We could name that Mafia role Conman for example.
Coast Guard N,o again as above. I like the idea of an anti-pirate role but then it should be one that either can look behind the disguise of the stolen role or who can protect a group every night from having their role stolen.
Dunno about the Godfather. Doesn't seem necessary to me, getting random roles is one of the fun parts of Mafia, why should the Mafia kept except of that rule?
Mafia Mastermind, eh, I like it more as a 3rd role trying to create their own League of Evil by trying to find and recruit other 3rd roles which will be hard given we have so few 3rd roles, yet, and given that besides the Mastermind we will have like one or two more 3rd role at max. So no. I don't think this role is needed.
Hope I wasn't too harsh but I had my fair share of harsh critic as well for plenty of my roles, so yeah. Good luck.
Hey, Hosts! You guys think we can try out the Old Cat Lady Townie role,please? That one had a lot of support!
I would name that role Director for example. The Director would be a townie role with the night ability to redirect his targets action, if the target has an action or even used it that night, on a target of his chosen. Kinda like this "I chose James Rye to target GrySun" as pm to the host. If I have an action and use it this night, like on Holt, then in truth it gets redirected without me knowing or maybe with me getting a pm that my target did got redirected but not at who. Though that kind of message would be too good for Director as he could prove himself too easily. This action redirecting could also be used for Mafia but here as a 50:50 chance 50% chance to succeed like the Director or 50% for the target to get told that somebody tried to redirect their target but failed. We could name that Mafia role Conman for example.
I am fairly certain that Old Cat Lady had mostly received support because people like the name, and I'm not even kidding. It's a broken role that none of the hosts approved.
The suggestion was this:
As it is, it's a confirmation machine. It's Mafia Det, Spy and... reverse Spy combined, acting on 3-5 players at once, every single night. Either it gets a serious reworking, or I don't see it ever making its way into the role list.
Panda had a suggestion to turn it into this:
Which I still don't like. Getting a confirmation on active/passive claims as soon as Night 1 on 3-5 people is already huge, and the OCL 2.0 would continue to get free results with no effort required for nights on end, getting more and more accurate the more of her nyanbourhood members die off. The role would have the potential of reducing the claiming space of mafia claims by a pretty big margin, essentially making it so that you should almost automatically claim an active role if you're killing or doing something every night, and passive if you don't plan to - risking doing otherwise just wouldn't be worth the effort, which is an unnecessary and honestly not fun restriction if you ask me.
@Vandred Good critic here are two suggestions to replace the broken role with a functional one that still had merit in being used:
This set-up the OCL is basically like a radar. She only gets told who used actions on her neighbors, which depending on the size of her growing neighborhood can be more or less actions. It is growing because 1) then it starts small and not big right from the beginning which is too much of a bonus and 2) this way the OCL can prevent her neighborhood from dying out and making her role obsolete. I am not quite sure yet if she should be told ALL actions on ALL neighbors as depending on the size of her neighborhood that could be a lot or just randomly, which at the start would be only one player to be randomly targeted but given he lives long enough it will then be 2 and 3 and so on. Probably random, I think, that way the size the OCL decides upon gives her sort of a percentage of what target she gets told were actions used on, like 1 neighbor 100% 2 neighbors 50%50% and 3 33% each and so on.
Here, we basically have ALL players be the neighborhood and the OCL is less of a radar with a growing group of observed targets and more of an "upside-down spy" where she does not observe the "active player", like the spy hopes to get one when he chooses his target, but the "receiver" of the action aka the victim in case of a murder for example. The fun part about a spy is that if he is lucky he can catch the murderer red-handed if he happened to observe the killer of the in the night murdered victim. Ofc the spy can never quite be sure if that person really did murder the target or if he was a det who investigated and who happned to investigate the same target as the killer or a naive doc or an insane doc or a prostitute or an apprentice who wanted to learn. But it is a start, it is something. The Old Cat Lady on the other hand observes the potential targets of such actions, so in theory she could find more actions in one night if she happened to observe a "popular" target. After all the spy can only observe one action done by the target itself as even the BK can influence only one player from the ones he invited whereas the OCL could observe "James Rye targets GrySun, Holt targets GrySun, Demonspeed target GrySun" in a single night but have no idea who did what exactly on Gry, if he died the OCL would ofc know that one of those 3 have to be the murderer just like the spy can assume that with his observation "James Rye targets GrySun" and Gry being dead next day phase. The idea here is to have the OCL be more of an active part whereas in the other role suggestion she is more of a passive part, kinda like a fisher throwing out his bait and waiting for somebody to bite, here she is looking each night at somebody and either gets unlucky (nobody targeted the observed target that night phase) or lucky and gets one or several people reported who did target the player the OCL observed this night phase.
From the two suggestion I guess I might like the 2nd option a bit more due many players already having experience with the spy so it would not be too hard to understand the OCL as well. Plus with that variant we can just add the "Paranoid Old Cat Lady" who gets random targets just like the Paranoid Spy so that the real OCL can never be quite sure if she is sane or paranoid till after a couple night phases and ofc day phases where people admit they did target the players in the nights she says has observed then.
Alright, I'll put up some of the role ideas I got from Faust's suggestions:
A simple passive role with an impact of another, very often, used Townie role. Mafia doesn't have many passive roles anyway and at least this role fulfills something by hindering the BK a little compared to some other roles of the Mafia like the Unskilled Mafia Member. Also this way the Hosts could use the Drunkard on the Mafia team to give them the idea that a BK or some BKs are in the game whereas in truth none is. Just you know, for a certain troll host to consider as an option.
Basically a "Super" Bodyguard who is useful alive as he could block the Mafia Investigator or Mafia Pirate actions if they were to target his protected player. Ofc like a normal Bodyguard he would die to save the other player's life. And ofc he could end up blocking a det investigation or an apprentice following action as well, so his role is a two-sided blade but surely an interesting one to play with.
This is the idea I had for the pirate counter role albeit him defending only one role from having his role stolen could be not strong enough as a pirate counter.
Maybe a 3rd role that also steals roles but unlike pirates changes it daily by returning old roles back to their previous owner and need to steal a pirate role to make it permanent or something like that? A Buccaneer for example?
Thoughts on that matter?
