Discussion The Holy war

[Mythoclast]

It hilarious how as soon as they found themselves in similar situation that the demon clan had been inflicted with for over a decade,they immediately opted for a desperate stalemate.
I don't consider what they did a W.

 

[OtakuFreak]

It hilarious how as soon as they found themselves in similar situation that the demon clan had been inflicted with for over a decade,they immediately opted for a desperate stalemate.
I don't consider what they did a W.

I mean the Goddesses situation was even worse than what the Demons had initially.

They lost not only Mael, Elizabeth, Meliodas and the Kings, but also one of the blessings which could've dictated the tide of the war quite easily. And given how sunshine is one of the SD'S powers, it would've pushed the balance towards the demons heavily (since 10 commandments = 50% and 3 Blessings = 37.5% hypothetically).

So yeah, the Goddesses lost more power even when you exclude the Kings and other clans influence yet were Still able to defeat the Demons and draw a stalemate in their favour.

The Demons had nothing, no seal or backup plan, they were fortunate enough that Gowther mind fucked Mael and that the Supreme Deity was foolish enough to remove two AA tier pieces in the middle of a war from her side of the fight.

The Goddesses even when they lost more power than the demons had a back up plan to fall back on and claim victory.

Don't see how the Demons get praised for their war effort when they got simply lucky.

 

[titantron91]

Goddess Clan called out "war".
The Demon Clan's zero regard for non-Demon's lives (and afterlives) as well as the fight for magical resources in Britannia were the reasons though.

 

[Gut's is the man]

It hilarious how as soon as they found themselves in similar situation that the demon clan had been inflicted with for over a decade,they immediately opted for a desperate stalemate.
I don't consider what they did a W.

It really wasn't.

 

[OtakuFreak]

It really wasn't.

Yet the Demon Clan accepted the coffin of eternal darkness as a defeat on their part, as told by Zeldris.

The Goddesses technically won, but it's like killing an enemy whilst killing yourself - not too credit worthy.

 

[titantron91]

Yet the Demon Clan accepted the coffin of eternal darkness as a defeat on their part, as told by Zeldris.

The Goddesses technically won, but it's like killing an enemy whilst killing yourself - not too credit worthy.

If it weren't for Fraudrin, the seal on the 10 Commandments and stronger Demons would've probably stayed for another 1000 years at the minimum
I mean, the Goddesses were really patient, taking time to reform their bodies while the Demons were sealed.
And even 3000 years wasn't enough for them to reform fully and were only forced to call up suitable hosts when the 10 Commandments and the Masters were freed thanks to Fraudrin and Hendriksen.

 

[Gut's is the man]

If it weren't for Fraudrin, the seal on the 10 Commandments and stronger Demons would've probably stayed for another 1000 years at the minimum
I mean, the Goddesses were really patient, taking time to reform their bodies while the Demons were sealed.
And even 3000 years wasn't enough for them to reform fully and were only forced to call up suitable hosts when the 10 Commandments and the Masters were freed thanks to Fraudrin and Hendriksen.

I find it suspicious that they did nothing until after a month passed.

 

[T25]

Yes, because Elizabeth & Meliodas were already providing results that benefited Stigma in multiple ways despite their final goal being different. Meliodas had already eliminated countless fodder and a member of the Ten Commandments, whilst Elizabeth had achieved a great feat for the Goddess Clan: defeating Indura.

Whilst Elizabeth did leave Monspiet & Derriere alive, she still greatly assisted her clan in the fact that no one in the clan besides her or Mael could be able to fully take out the Indura. In fact, if Elizabeth had not intervened the battle with the Indura's then it was highly likely that a few members of the Four Archangels could've been killed. Elizabeth stopping this outcome is a huge benefit for Stigma, so for the Supreme Deity to merely become ignorant and focus on the ''saving the enemy commandments'' and thus eliminate her daughter, makes her a moron IMO.

If the Supreme Deity was really focused on punishing her daughter and Meliodas, why not simply use them in the war, defeat the Demon Clan and then highhandedly curse them herself instead of eliminating during a middle of the war with her enemy? If she was smart, she would've done this.



Yes, Off-topic discussion will stop... after I'm finished



Elizabeth is the Supreme Deity's daughter and Meliodas is the lover of her only child, I'm pretty sure they belong more to her than they do to the Demon Clan. Hell, Elizabeth even identified herself as a part of the Goddess Race, so it seemed almost clear who's side she would have more bias for.

Even if Meliodas was weakened due to the presence of emotions, him & Elizabeth were still soldiers of the highest power among the war, thus the Supreme Deity taking them out of the equation in the middle of a war is a highly illogical and foolish move. She had so much potential in using them for her own benefit. For example:

If I was the Supreme Goddess, I would've seen the potential and benefit Elizabeth & Meliodas brought to the war through their actions in defeating an enemy commandment and purifying the Indura which directly saved the Four Archangels and thus used them as much as I could. Instead of aligning myself with the Demon King in order to punish the duo, I would've brainwashed them both into following my objectives (i.e kill & conquer) and once the war was won for my clan, either decide to keep them brainwashed, or eliminate Meliodas and punish Elizabeth for her actions. Besides this, I would've immediately eliminated Gowther before he could take down Mael and victory for the Goddess Clan would've been assured.

Though, if I wasn't aware of Gowther's plan and Mael was eliminated anyway, then I would've still pushed Elizabeth & Meliodas to achieve my objectives. Even without Mael, a brainwashed Elizabeth & Meliodas against a crippled Demon Clan could've still helped the Goddesses to victory, albeit it being harder.

Point is, in my opinion the Demon Clan were extremely lucky that the Supreme Deity was moronic enough to eliminate two highly powerful soldiers whilst Gowther took out Mael who was now uncontested with Meliodas absence.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 20, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 20, 2018 ---

Got to love the SD for her hypocrisy, can just imagine how the conversation went down with her daughter

SD: ElIzAbEtH yOu MuSt Be PuNiShEd FoR jOiNiNg WiTh A dEmOn!!!!!!

Elizabeth: But you're tag-teaming us with the Demon King....

SD: ShUt ThE fUcK uP

When did the sd curse them? How many times had they defied her wishes?

 

[sobreno]

Goddesses obviously.

 

[Gut's is the man]

Goddesses obviously.

Pooring gasoline on a fire eh.

 

[sobreno]

Pooring gasoline on a fire eh.

They wouldn't dare, after all, it is ME.

 

[T25]

How is a balance of power between two warring factions be purely perception. To say in war that a balance isn't objectively true and is just subjective only showcases one's own stupidity on war or lack of thought to how it was fought. (The fact that we see most of the fighting occur in the goddess realm makes it seem that the Demon actually held the advantage and Mel's defection only tipped the advantage the other way. Which while fitting what we've seen. Does not fit what everyone sa- you get the problem with the holy war right? Not only are Meliodas decision odd. But the war itself is built on a balance that sound laughable and we never see to be true and for the original HW to work and the risk of every clan to die, the demons had to have been so monumentally strong. The loss of meliodas and two commandments only evened it.)

Okay a quesiton, why did Meliodas stay with stigma even though it couldn't possibly bring him any closer to his goal and if anything brought him farther away from it due to becoming weaker. Surely he could have persuaded Elizabeth to leave given how their continued presence would just mean further the very slaughter they hated. (My issue with Elizabeth is a similar to Meliodas if differing degree to where I think she lands. i.e. a idiot or selfish prick) Them fighting for stigma in the first place makes no sense and they didn't run away until the tail end of the war. (Which creates another can of worms. Asking how on earth didn't know and so cover it up to give them peace and bring the war to a swifter end.)

It's when you look at meliodas actions and then later conviction, that the degree of contradiction of his behavior is noticeable. Which is my problem, Nakaba probably didn't have the full motivation written out and likely didn't have time to realize once down that the conviction were too much in conflict with what Meliodas did as to make any kind of reasonable sense. Meliodas only being for Elizabeth is acceptable and the correct answer, but that still makes him self, AT BEST. And a compeltly hypocrite when he claims that he wanted to end the war due to thinking it stupid, since Elizabeth didn't even factor into it.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 4, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 4, 2018 ---

What would happen if you mix @OtakuFreak and @Undina then?

You ask me how it’s perception and proceed to speak of “seeing” repeatedly. Do you see it? If a scale is balanced by two opposing rocks, add a rock to one side and perception is changed. The state of balance is disrupted. Balance is perceived. We saw them fight in brittania. How do you know we weren’t looking at brittanian sky? How do you know there were no fights in the demon realm? Are we not aware that there are “islands” above the clouds in brittania? A back and forth tug of war. Reservations. A treaty. Does that not possibly constitute a perception of evenness?

Eli did factor into stigma. Mon and deri lived after that incident no? It seems that they did not know how to end the war. So what is to be done? Abandon it to its own devices until the demise of everyone or choose to impact it in someway with some action and conviction? We don’t know what to do so we won’t do anything. How’s that sound? What does that say? We don’t know how much or what transpired but we still have an ongoing story that may shed some light into this so as to allow further deduction before an ultimate conclusion no? I don’t feel like saying an action was worthless just to have it thrown back at my face as completely wrong later down the line if I can help it.

 

[Estarossa173]

You know, all the AAs had to do is gather the 10C, 6BK, and masters in one area. Dump them in the dimension that sariel and tarmiel showed and use the attack that nearly killed estarossa. Right there, only meliodas, zeldris, chandler, and cusack would remain since they are powerful enough to break out of the dimension. If these 4 went up against all 4 archangels, they could probably lose.

 

[Kay3795]

You know, all the AAs had to do is gather the 10C, 6BK, and masters in one area. Dump them in the dimension that sariel and tarmiel showed and use the attack that nearly killed estarossa. Right there, all but meliodas, zeldris, chandler, and cusack would remain since they are powerful enough to break out of the dimension. If these 4 went up against all 4 archangels, they could probably lose.

It's never that easy lol.

1) How are they gonna just gather a bunch of Demons in one spot along with the 4 Highest Demon (also Cusack & Chandler weren't really a part of the fighting) when the battlefield isn't one place?

2) Top Demons will protect the weaker ones from harm. Meliodas' massive orb of darkness is an example how Top Demons can apply darkness to shield their comrades

Spoiler

The already tried mass fodder elimination techniques anyway like Omega Ark but that won't work against the 10Cs

Spoiler

 

[OtakuFreak]

It's never that easy lol.

1) How are they gonna just gather a bunch of Demons in one spot along with the 4 Highest Demon (also Cusack & Chandler weren't really a part of the fighting) when the battlefield isn't one place?

2) Top Demons will protect the weaker ones from harm. Meliodas' massive orb of darkness is an example how Top Demons can apply darkness to shield their comrades

Spoiler

The already tried mass fodder elimination techniques anyway like Omega Ark but that won't work against the 10Cs

Spoiler

Both examples you gave were when the Four Archangels weren't actually trying to kill whoever they were facing but were instead playing around with their enemy, so because of this context in both scenarios it reduces the validity in your claim. Plus, if the AA's were fully attempting to kill every single demon in @Estarossa173 scenario, then its pretty much an accepted fact that the weaker individuals in such a scuffle with either die quick, or be a hindrance to the stronger people in battle due to needing to be constantly protected at every turn.

So realistically, only Zeldris/Meliodas/Chandler/Cusack are surviving in such a battle against the AA, everyone else will either be killed or allowed to escape through the top tier demons efforts of breaking the dimensional hold.

 

[Samael Morningstar]

Also the whole OG Magic Meliodas shit needs to fucking die today, with it active he can combat the Demon King at 50%

It’s be stated that every magic power has a weakness, The Ruler was formidable and impossible to overcome until Ban discovered his Gift power & Ominous Nebula was damn near impossible to overcome until Escanor broke through it

We don’t jack about Mel’s magic power or how it works besides the fact that it’s destructive and had dire consequences so stop passing off mere speculation or headcannon as facts

This wank is getting ridiculous holy shit

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 29, 2018, Original Post Date: Dec 29, 2018 ---

The Goddess Clan has more quality fighters while the Demons have immense quantity

Mael, Elizabeth & Ludociel rival Meliodas

Zeldris is only on that level with ON + DK’s magic activate but in terms of raw strength/power he’s inferior

Sariel and Tarmiel are stronger than all the Commandments, the 6 Black Knights and all fodder Demons

The Goddess clan has 5 A class warriors while the Demons have 3

Bro here's the real thing
OG magic mel>= One mode Mael>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Near to noon Mael >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Leader of 10C AM mel
And the rest of the times they are mostly equal

 

[Tragicdeath]

This is what I believed. Only difference is went from a vicious fighter to a more merciful combatant.

As Revo said however, take this to the proper place.

Oh true definitely. But where could I discuss about your new prof pic. Like I wasnt expecting youd choose spawn or is it a butterfly.lmao. On a serious note, do you believe his a merciful combatant or maybe hes just hiding his true nature but hes pretty much the same like DK mentioned in chap 183 he sees the real meliodas's like hes hiding that he trembles in anger or fear which most probably the 2nd one.

 

[TarXan]

This is what I believed. Only difference is went from a vicious fighter to a more merciful combatant.

As Revo said however, take this to the proper place.

Yeah it’s weird people keep saying Prime Mel, Peak Mel and creating 30 versions of Meliodas, his 2nd Demon Mark stayed the same after he switched sides

Also Meliodas had feelings for Elizabeth while he was Leader of the Commandments, he had positive emotions

It was literally stated that’d he’d sneak out with Elizabeth during the war before his betrayal

Anyway you’re right

 

[mandark]

Guys to be said bellion was a complete idiot lol. Who in his right mind attacks goddess territory in morning lol when goddess have a upper hand in fight against demon.

If he had attacked at night atleast he could have made mael useless.

------> And from it i have a theory.

Mael said "what is this darkness which is greater than my SUN" something like it. Here mael says SUN so what if it was really his sun, i mean it might have been night time and just like chandler's true night it was his true sun something like that cuz its really funny of bellion to attack goddess territory at morning lol.
Whats your thought on this?

Ps: its just a theory no blind fanboying

 

[Estarossa173]

Guys to be said bellion was a complete idiot lol. Who in his right mind attacks goddess territory in morning lol when goddess have a upper hand in fight against demon.

If he had attacked at night atleast he could have made mael useless.

------> And from it i have a theory.

Mael said "what is this darkness which is greater than my SUN" something like it. Here mael says SUN so what if it was really his sun, i mean it might have been night time and just like chandler's true night it was his true sun something like that cuz its really funny of bellion to attack goddess territory at morning lol.
Whats your thought on this?

Ps: its just a theory no blind fanboying

I highly doubt Bellion would’ve been able to beat mael. Mael isn’t like escanor who is completely useless at night. He should be strong even when it’s night.

Also this needs to be said, If only the Surpreme Diety put stronger goddesses to watch the entrance to the goddess realm Bellion wouldn’t have been able to waltz in there like nothing.

Like seriously, how the fuck did they let bellion and later meliodas enter their realm so easily?