Discussion The Holy war

Who started the war?

  • The demon clan

    Votes: 13 26.5%
  • The Goddess clan

    Votes: 27 55.1%
  • Humans

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 9 18.4%

  • Total voters
    49

T25

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How does it not ? Correct me if I’m mistaken but he implied he was the go to for purging demons in the absence of the SD, regardless Mael was the strongest in his clan



It wasn’t until King damaged him until his mind started deteriorating, point is..... Mael regulated 3 Commandments without having to take the timbe to absorb them, he was able to harness the power of 4 Commandments and use their techniques despite the fact that the Darkness isn’t compatible with Goddess biology

Monspeet literally said anyone other than Meliodas absorbing more than 1 Commandments would be destroyed, yet Mael ate 4 and held on despite being an Angel
That is a universal and historical code of conduct. “On behalf of His Majesty, I shall....” “In the name of....” The respect for ones lord as to perform as tasked to them by said lord. Or just respect and honor. I don’t know how you have construed that to mean he is second only to his lord. Zeldris is known as the DKs representative, and prior, his executioner. On behalf of the dk, he performed executions and represented the dk in matters such as deplomacy, judgement and the like. How does that inherently mean that his personal power is second standing in comparison?

You argued that Mel was never stated to be the most powerful in the clan despite what you have seen of his power and incoming revelations. So I do not understand how you are not holding mael in a similar light given that it is heavily implied that his title of strongest is heavily reliant on a given power unlike Mel and just as is the case with dc, we don’t know much about the gc. You say that mael is second only two the sd, but there is sufficient basis to question this granted that maels power and reputation by in large was a result of a power he held that was not his own that’s primary or secondary function strengthened him over time. Furthermore, there is implication that one non AA without external assistance was inherently at a level of power comparable to those with it.

His mind was already influenced even when he only had three. If you couldn’t see that, then you had sariel and Eli put it into words for us. He regulated them to a much better degree than estarossa who went crazy. But even still, he did not eliminate their negative influence. An incomplete control but still notable.

He was able to harness the power of four at what cost? The cost of his complete sanity. If you cannot think properly then you don’t have that much control. I don’t know how to make this anymore clear. What you are referring to as “mind deteriorating” was the instant he lost any semblence of control and self destructed. Just because he was stronger and could use abilities doesn’t mean he was sane doing it. His thoughts:



How is this more in control than a guy walking into a subway screaming obscenities then mumbling incoherently before proceeding to start screaming again? Or a guy coming into a restaurant after a night out asking for a table to eat and food to sit at? At least they arent homicidal I suppose.

Was monspiet wrong? I think mael kind of proved it a bit, on the gc spectrum at least, rather than contradict it. He was being destroyed mentally and when his endurance failed he literally self destructed. I don’t remember mon putting a time limit on how long they could last.
 
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sobreno

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How does it not ? Correct me if I’m mistaken but he implied he was the go to for purging demons in the absence of the SD, regardless Mael was the strongest in his clan



It wasn’t until King damaged him until his mind started deteriorating, point is..... Mael regulated 3 Commandments without having to take the timbe to absorb them, he was able to harness the power of 4 Commandments and use their techniques despite the fact that the Darkness isn’t compatible with Goddess biology

Monspeet literally said anyone other than Meliodas absorbing more than 1 Commandments would be destroyed, yet Mael ate 4 and held on despite being an Angel
His mind was actually gone before King even attacked him to be fair.

He couldn't handle 4 commandments, that is a fact.
 

Estarossa173

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His mind was actually gone before King even attacked him to be fair.

He couldn't handle 4 commandments, that is a fact.
It certainly took a while for the rejection process to happen.

A LONG while.
 

eefrit

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I'll say this, while it was clear that Mael's mind was corrupted by the Commandments even after he returned to his true self, I'd say the traumatic revelation of him being Estarossa contributed to that mental degradation. He literally was just woken up and had several bombs dropped on him, so he was feeling a lot of different emotions, most of them negative, so I'd say it was easy for the Commandments capitalize on his weakness.

I personally think Mael is still in possession of the 4 Commandments and, with him spirit/mind all well and good, he can contain all 4 of them with no issues.
 

T25

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It certainly took a while for the rejection process to happen.

A LONG while.
Started as soon as he had the first one
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I'll say this, while it was clear that Mael's mind was corrupted by the Commandments even after he returned to his true self, I'd say the traumatic revelation of him being Estarossa contributed to that mental degradation. I personally think Mael is still in possession of the 4 Commandments and, with him spirit/mind all well and good, he can contain all 4 of them with no issues.
I agree with that first point. As for the being able to contain the four now with no issue, while I won’t reject the possibility I am skeptical of the logic of it considering it wasn’t a concept of overflowing power but rather a biological contradiction. There is a way I can see it happen logically though. Developed immunity. As in holding one for so long caused a mutation. Basically what could theoretically happen should a hybrid being exist.
 

Mael the strongest

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The worst thing about the Goddess Clan is that their strongest character get ignored so badly that it doesn't even have a little " dialogue " lol.

That is how much they are getting respect from Nakaba.

I wonder sometimes if she still exists lmao.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
And a name as pretentious as the " Goddess Clan ".

Any newbie who read the manga will expect: " Wow, Goddess sound godly, they have God like power like time or space shit. "

I have to admit by name alone, Goddess sound " stronger " than just a " Demon " lol and yet.

That is Demons who get random power up, transformation lol.

We are in difficulty, no problem we were actually playing around lol.
We are about to die, no problem, random Indura transformations.

We are about to be defeated, let's Gogeta with 1, 2 and boom, Fusion warrior.

We were outnumbered, no problem, let's randomly " absorb " more than one commandment because lol I can.

Daddy will beat me, oh no, let me use a Godly magic hakai power that I never showed before because, lol I was scared like a cat about it.XD

I can go on like that with the Demons, it is clear as day who Nakaba fanboys over here lol.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
If I was writing the Goddess Clan.

I will give them:
1) Innate power like Demons beside random Ark or light stuff.

2) Diversity and not generic or boring appearance.

3) An Original Goddess like the Sinner for the Goddess Clan.

4) Transformation power up for high tier Goddess like high tier Demons, beside sacrificing their hearts, it is their wings in exchange of far greater power.

5) Someone doing " True Day " to counter True night and boost the magic power of the Goddess during the day.

5) Nephelim mode which is get by absorbing more than one grace.

6) Elizabeth actually be an Erza type without the bullshit friendship power up of course.
If you get what I meant.
Man you care about the goddess so much Im impressed
 

Mighty Escanor

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The worst thing about the Goddess Clan is that their strongest character get ignored so badly that it doesn't even have a little " dialogue " lol.

That is how much they are getting respect from Nakaba.

I wonder sometimes if she still exists lmao.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
And a name as pretentious as the " Goddess Clan ".

Any newbie who read the manga will expect: " Wow, Goddess sound godly, they have God like power like time or space shit. "

I have to admit by name alone, Goddess sound " stronger " than just a " Demon " lol and yet.

That is Demons who get random power up, transformation lol.

We are in difficulty, no problem we were actually playing around lol.
We are about to die, no problem, random Indura transformations.

We are about to be defeated, let's Gogeta with 1, 2 and boom, Fusion warrior.

We were outnumbered, no problem, let's randomly " absorb " more than one commandment because lol I can.

Daddy will beat me, oh no, let me use a Godly magic hakai power that I never showed before because, lol I was scared like a cat about it.XD

I can go on like that with the Demons, it is clear as day who Nakaba fanboys over here lol.
--- Double Post Merged, ---
If I was writing the Goddess Clan.

I will give them:
1) Innate power like Demons beside random Ark or light stuff.

2) Diversity and not generic or boring appearance.

3) An Original Goddess like the Sinner for the Goddess Clan.

4) Transformation power up for high tier Goddess like high tier Demons, beside sacrificing their hearts, it is their wings in exchange of far greater power.

5) Someone doing " True Day " to counter True night and boost the magic power of the Goddess during the day.

5) Nephelim mode which is get by absorbing more than one grace.

6) Elizabeth actually be an Erza type without the bullshit friendship power up of course.
If you get what I meant.
Liked your post overall, but I've never been a fan of goddess-demon parallelism. Nakaba could've made the Goddess clan more powerful and add more variety to its members, but concepts like true day-true night, original demon-original goddess, heart sacrifice-wing sacrifice, decree absorption-grace absorption, and such dualities would make these clans identical to one another. I do like his current approach towards different clans, none of them seems to be a mere imitation. Weak or strong, diverse or generic, these five main clans each have a unique distinctive feature of their own, even the underused giants. More variety among members would have been desired, but too much similarities between the clans oppose the very concept of diversity.
 

sobreno

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Liked your post overall, but I've never been a fan of goddess-demon parallelism. Nakaba could've made the Goddess clan more powerful and add more variety to its members, but concepts like true day-true night, original demon-original goddess, heart sacrifice-wing sacrifice, decree absorption-grace absorption, and such dualities would make these clans identical to one another. I do like his current approach towards different clans, none of them seems to be a mere imitation. Weak or strong, diverse or generic, these five main clans each have a unique distinctive feature of their own, even the underused giants. More variety among members would have been desired, but too much similarities between the clans oppose the very concept of diversity.
Yep, you are right, I guess he decided to favorite one and forget the other lol.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Man you care about the goddess so much Im impressed
Because their treatment is sad lol.
 

TarXan

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That is a universal and historical code of conduct. “On behalf of His Majesty, I shall....” “In the name of....” The respect for ones lord as to perform as tasked to them by said lord. Or just respect and honor. I don’t know how you have construed that to mean he is second only to his lord. Zeldris is known as the DKs representative, and prior, his executioner. On behalf of the dk, he performed executions and represented the dk in matters such as deplomacy, judgement and the like. How does that inherently mean that his personal power is second standing in comparison?

You argued that Mel was never stated to be the most powerful in the clan despite what you have seen of his power and incoming revelations. So I do not understand how you are not holding mael in a similar light given that it is heavily implied that his title of strongest is heavily reliant on a given power unlike Mel and just as is the case with dc, we don’t know much about the gc. You say that mael is second only two the sd, but there is sufficient basis to question this granted that maels power and reputation by in large was a result of a power he held that was not his own that’s primary or secondary function strengthened him over time. Furthermore, there is implication that one non AA without external assistance was inherently at a level of power comparable to a those with it.

His mind was already influenced even when he only had three. If you couldn’t see that, then you had sariel and Eli put it into words for us. He regulated them to a much better degree than estarossa who went crazy. But even still, he did not eliminate their negative influence. An incomplete control but still notable.

He was able to harness the power of four at what cost? The cost of his complete sanity. If you cannot think properly then you don’t have that much control. I don’t know how to make this anymore clear. What you are referring to as “mind deteriorating” was the instant he lost any semblence of control and self destructed. Just because he was stronger and could use abilities doesn’t mean he was sane doing it. His thoughts:



How is this more in control than a guy walking into a subway screaming obscenities then mumbling incoherently before proceeding to start screaming again? Or a guy coming into a restaurant after a night out asking for a table to eat and food to sit at? At least they arent homicidal I suppose.

Was monspiet wrong? I think mael kind of proved it a bit, on the gc spectrum at least, rather than contradict it. He was being destroyed mentally and when his endurance failed he literally self destructed. I don’t remember mon putting a time limit on how long they could last.
Bruh Mael is the strongest in the Goddess clan, their entire clan sacrificed themselves because of his death, you’re statements claiming otherwise is kinda irrelevant, it’s been stated several times, he’s the strongest Arc Angel & member of his clan


Also I brought up the Commandments because it was stated multiple times that nobody other than Meliodas can take them in and regulate them properly, Mael managed to do this with 3 to 4 without having to partake in the absorbtion process before he started getting consumed, he didn’t master them but he was able to harness the Darkness despite being an Angel
 

OtakuFreak

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Bruh Mael is the strongest in the Goddess clan, their entire clan sacrificed themselves because of his death, you’re statements claiming otherwise is kinda irrelevant, it’s been stated several times, he’s the strongest Arc Angel & member of his clan


Also I brought up the Commandments because it was stated multiple times that nobody other than Meliodas can take them in and regulate them properly, Mael managed to do this with 3 to 4 without having to partake in the absorbtion process before he started getting consumed, he didn’t master them but he was able to harness the Darkness despite being an Angel
It's been stated he is the strongest member of the Four Archangels, but not of his entire clan. Don't get me wrong, I firmly do believe he is the strongest Goddess outside of the Supreme Deity but Nakaba-sensei seems pretty reluctant on giving him such a title or feat - suggesting that he may not be in the ''second to SD'' spot.

If you ask me, he isn't officially the ''second strongest'' because:

1) ''Sun'' officially belongs to the Supreme Deity, whom essentially gift-wrapped Mael his titles, feats and status as the strongest AA - so its not like he earned his way there, it was largely due to how powerful his blessing makes him.

2) His power is never stable and inconsistent. Mael is obviously stronger than any of the other Four Archangels + Elizabeth in the morning, near-noon or noon itself but when ''sun'' becomes inactive or much weaker, his own attitude of his comrades (and statement) gives the perception that the other AA + Elizabeth are fully capable of matching his strength. Hell, I'd argue that Base Mael is inferior to Ludoshel whom has ''Flash'' at all times. You can't really call Mael the second strongest Goddess when his power weakens at specific times of the day to the point that others in the clan can temporarily surpass or match him, right?

Just my 2 sense on why he will NEVER be the official 2nd strongest Goddess (i.e ''by title'')
 

T25

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Bruh Mael is the strongest in the Goddess clan, their entire clan sacrificed themselves because of his death, you’re statements claiming otherwise is kinda irrelevant, it’s been stated several times, he’s the strongest Arc Angel & member of his clan


Also I brought up the Commandments because it was stated multiple times that nobody other than Meliodas can take them in and regulate them properly, Mael managed to do this with 3 to 4 without having to partake in the absorbtion process before he started getting consumed, he didn’t master them but he was able to harness the Darkness despite being an Angel
How is my looking into it irrelevant? You didn’t look into elis display against indura all that much and argued even against her power being at the AA level despite her feat, which you claim to be non existent, and now say that otakus “theories are coming to fruition” despite believing he was delusional even though you had the same information he had to use. Did you look into it?

When chandler came in and revealed he had taught Mel full counter, by looking into it, you would be able to suspect that mel may have had an innate magic of his own or that there were some circumstance revolving around why he never used it. And even before chandler, you had the fact that everyone of the seven deadly sins had a background to the magic they possessed except Mel, the mc of mcs, to look into and question. Did you? Look how it played out.

It has been claimed that mael is the strongest AA, not the strongest member of his clan, and when you look into it, which I do to the best of my ability for everyone and everything, his title is closely linked to a power given to him. So yes he has been called the strongest AA, but I have also been given reason to wonder wether he is the strongest gc member, regardless of the results of my speculation.

Yes the COED was used after the “death of mael” but what do you see when you look into it? You see that there was sometime after his “death” before it was used evidenced by the blood of kin on maels hands. As a result of the flashback in 200, you see that even before maels “death” there was disobedience and counterproductivity towards the goals of the gc by some of its strongest members. You also see that Mael was not the only one to leave as drole and gloxinia had turncoat (not to mention the implications of possible discord among the clans they lead and by extension the impact on the alliance that is stigma) as well as the death of Mel and Eli before the conclusion of the war. I was mistaken. The dc lost 1, the gc “gained” 1 then the gc lost four while the dc gained two more.

To summarize:
though the gc lost mel, they gained esarossa. By the end the DC lost one but gained three, while the GC lost four with discord amongst the top figures and no gain. This is what you can see. Is it relavent? I think it’s possible.


This was what mon said. If he took in more he would be destroyed. No specifics to amount taken nor time he could control. He simply said that he would be destroyed. Mael with three was able to handle and control them better than estarossa but his soul was still being corrupted and destroyed. The basis for mons statement was on how one commandment left him unstable. Three in mael, and mael was still unstable. Mon wasn’t wrong. And I don’t think it was stated only mel could do it. He said “it’s one thing for mel or zel.” I’m not sure of where it was expressed only Mel or zel could do it either. I don’t see why it isn’t more of a possibility for, say, mon to be able either. Maels strength and capability allowed him to do what he did but his biology got in the way. Isn’t it possible for someone powerful to do it as well?
 
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OtakuFreak

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Yes, Mael's death was the biggest factor into the Goddess Clan becoming suicidal, but at the same time let's not pretend that:

-Multiple fodder dying
-Fodder betraying stigma
-Gloxinia & Drole becoming commandments
-Elizabeth & Meliodas being killed

Didn't play a role into the suicidal notion of the Goddesses, because it certainly did. Hypothetically, even with Mael's death and the lose of ''sun'' the Goddesses still could've won the war, albeit with much more difficulty. In my opinion, Mael's death was the most important but it was also the last push into making the Goddesses practically be forced into suicide.
 

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To be fair though, Ludoshel could challenge Prime Meliodas due to how his power was said to be comparable with the Demon Prince. Of course, Meliodas would win because FC + OG magic but it would high difficulty.

so get ur shitty meme reaction out of my face boiiiii

wait no let me put mine in as well:

 

Kay3795

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To be fair though, Ludoshel could challenge Prime Meliodas due to how his power was said to be comparable with the Demon Prince. Of course, Meliodas would win because FC + OG magic but it would high difficulty.

so get ur shitty meme reaction out of my face boiiiii

wait no let me put mine in as well:

High difficulty with OG magic? Hysterical! You do a very poor job masking the desperation.
 

OtakuFreak

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High difficulty with OG magic?
We don't know what his magic actually is. Plus, if Ludoshel can evade such magic with his blessing then it really doesn't matter what it is. You guys give it too much credit.

Hysterical! You do a very poor job masking the desperation.
Not really, otherwise I'd be claiming Ludoshel could defeat Meliodas with little effort (like how others are saying)
 

Commanderaxe

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To be fair though, Ludoshel could challenge Prime Meliodas due to how his power was said to be comparable with the Demon Prince. Of course, Meliodas would win because FC + OG magic but it would high difficulty.

so get ur shitty meme reaction out of my face boiiiii

wait no let me put mine in as well:

Lol Ludo easily got rekt by Zeldris, and unless his true form boost his power by like 100k, even THEN, he'll be nothing to Mel with OG magic unless you're claiming Ludo is powerful enough to not exist in the human realm as well as damage the gods? No Ludo gets stomped

 

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