Discussion The Holy war

Who started the war?

  • The demon clan

    Votes: 13 26.5%
  • The Goddess clan

    Votes: 27 55.1%
  • Humans

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 9 18.4%

  • Total voters
    49

OtakuFreak

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Lol Ludo easily got rekt by Zeldris,
What do you expect when he's not in his original body and Zeldris has magic immunity?

unless his true form boost his power by like 100k, even THEN, he'll be nothing to Mel with OG magic unless you're claiming Ludo is powerful enough to not exist in the human realm as well as damage the gods?
Woah, aren't we getting too far of ourselves here?

We literally have no idea what Meliodas magic is, so you can't put such a high importance on it, especially when it injured the Demon King who's weakened + off-guard.

Doesn't change the fact that Ludoshel is still comparable to Meliodas and could challenge him pretty well. Ludoshel can just bypass FC and his magic with speed.
 

Commanderaxe

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What do you expect when he's not in his original body and Zeldris has magic immunity?



Woah, aren't we getting too far of ourselves here?

We literally have no idea what Meliodas magic is, so you can't put such a high importance on it, especially when it injured the Demon King who's weakened + off-guard.

Doesn't change the fact that Ludoshel is still comparable to Meliodas and could challenge him pretty well. Ludoshel can just bypass FC and his magic with speed.
Ludos speed did jack against Cusack. He even claimed Zeldris ON was faster than his grace. Mels og magic puts him on a level where hes literally too powerful to exist in the human realm. Ludo doesnt have such a restriction. Not even Mael does. Hes far beneath OG magic Mel. Regular assault Mel then maybe perhaps he can give him some trouble. Some being the operative word. Weaked or not, the DK was speechless and shocked, showing its a feat that requires unfathomable power. Not to mention once again, he now has the same restriction as the gods
 

OtakuFreak

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Ludos speed did jack against Cusack.
True, but at the same time he was keeping up with Cusack and this was without his original body.

It's pretty much undeniable that Ludoshel is the fastest character in the series at full strength. If in a human vessel, he's able to keep up with top-tier demons in speed, its far obvious that in his Goddess body, he will be beyond them.

He even claimed Zeldris ON was faster than his grace.
Sure, but I feel like people give it too much credit. Yes, the vortex of darkness was superior to his speed, but at the same time, individually (as in person speed) Ludoshel is still the fastest out of the top tiers. If Zeldris didn't have magic immunity, Ludoshel could've fought back better.

Mels og magic puts him on a level where hes literally too powerful to exist in the human realm.
Mhm.

Ludo doesnt have such a restriction. Not even Mael does. Hes far beneath OG magic Mel. Regular assault Mel then maybe perhaps he can give him some trouble.
You can't say that because WE DON'T KNOW what Meliodas magic is. Yes, he has the restriction of not being in the mortal realm, but it doesn't mean he's on the level of the Gods or far above everyone else at top tier. It's a restriction, not a power.

Hell, if Meliodas can't exist in the mortal realm with this power, why even bring it up? He can't use it then LOL.

Some being the operative word. Weaked or not, the DK was speechless and shocked, showing its a feat that requires unfathomable power.
I don't give if he was speechless or shocked, practically everyone has that expression when Meliodas literally just exists, so it doesn't mean anything.

Not to mention once again, he now has the same restriction as the gods
So? It means nothing for his combat ability or power, once again its a restriction, NOT a power.
 

Commanderaxe

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True, but at the same time he was keeping up with Cusack and this was without his original body.

It's pretty much undeniable that Ludoshel is the fastest character in the series at full strength. If in a human vessel, he's able to keep up with top-tier demons in speed, its far obvious that in his Goddess body, he will be beyond them.



Sure, but I feel like people give it too much credit. Yes, the vortex of darkness was superior to his speed, but at the same time, individually (as in person speed) Ludoshel is still the fastest out of the top tiers. If Zeldris didn't have magic immunity, Ludoshel could've fought back better.



Mhm.



You can't say that because WE DON'T KNOW what Meliodas magic is. Yes, he has the restriction of not being in the mortal realm, but it doesn't mean he's on the level of the Gods or far above everyone else at top tier. It's a restriction, not a power.

Hell, if Meliodas can't exist in the mortal realm with this power, why even bring it up? He can't use it then LOL.



I don't give if he was speechless or shocked, practically everyone has that expression when Meliodas literally just exists, so it doesn't mean anything.



So? It means nothing for his combat ability or power, once again its a restriction, NOT a power.
Its still a power capable of damaging a god. My point stands. Not to mention the restriction is that he cant remain in the human realm. Nothing is stopping him from activating it, destroying his target, then disappearing. And how can you say it doesnt matter if the fckin DK was shocked by an overwhelming power? If one of the 2 most powerful characters in the series practically looks panicked and in shock, then it means that something is a big fckin deal obviously. Its obvious that Ludo would be utter fodder in the face of OG magic mel. Hell regular assault Mel made Mael retreat LOL. Not even adding that fact that Ludo showed hesitation and fear when confronting a non-AM Mel. Mael is the only archangel that poses a grave threat to Mel. Altho against an OG magic Mel then the threat he poses diminishes greatly. All in all, DK said that an OG magic Mel would be able to put up quite a fight against him. THAT is indisputable. Ludo is far beneath Mels true power
 

TarXan

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It's been stated he is the strongest member of the Four Archangels, but not of his entire clan. Don't get me wrong, I firmly do believe he is the strongest Goddess outside of the Supreme Deity but Nakaba-sensei seems pretty reluctant on giving him such a title or feat - suggesting that he may not be in the ''second to SD'' spot.

If you ask me, he isn't officially the ''second strongest'' because:

1) ''Sun'' officially belongs to the Supreme Deity, whom essentially gift-wrapped Mael his titles, feats and status as the strongest AA - so its not like he earned his way there, it was largely due to how powerful his blessing makes him.

2) His power is never stable and inconsistent. Mael is obviously stronger than any of the other Four Archangels + Elizabeth in the morning, near-noon or noon itself but when ''sun'' becomes inactive or much weaker, his own attitude of his comrades (and statement) gives the perception that the other AA + Elizabeth are fully capable of matching his strength. Hell, I'd argue that Base Mael is inferior to Ludoshel whom has ''Flash'' at all times. You can't really call Mael the second strongest Goddess when his power weakens at specific times of the day to the point that others in the clan can temporarily surpass or match him, right?

Just my 2 sense on why he will NEVER be the official 2nd strongest Goddess (i.e ''by title'')
That makes 0 sense, if there was a Goddess member beyond Mael why the hell would they feel the need to activate the Coffin ????

Excluding the SD, Mael was the strongest, I don’t think it’s a debate, literally the Holy War ended because the Goddesses felt sacrificing themselves was the only option after Mael’s supposed death

If there was another Angel above him then literally what was the point of sacrificing the entire clan ?????
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Yes, Mael's death was the biggest factor into the Goddess Clan becoming suicidal, but at the same time let's not pretend that:

-Multiple fodder dying
-Fodder betraying stigma
-Gloxinia & Drole becoming commandments
-Elizabeth & Meliodas being killed

Didn't play a role into the suicidal notion of the Goddesses, because it certainly did. Hypothetically, even with Mael's death and the lose of ''sun'' the Goddesses still could've won the war, albeit with much more difficulty. In my opinion, Mael's death was the most important but it was also the last push into making the Goddesses practically be forced into suicide.
This was never even confirmed

When Mael became Estarossa, Meliodas and Elizabeth where still alive according to the flashback

Mael was still alive when Stigma was betrayed in the FKF as well

Drole and Gloxinia switching sides wouldn’t be enough to phase stigma because in the end their fodder compared to Mael, Elizabeth, Ludociel & Meliodas

We don’t know when the chain of events happened or took place
 

Shadowlord123

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Sun Mael is clearly the strongest Goddess besides the SD, I don't think that's debatable. What is very questionable is whether graceless Mael was the strongest besides the SD or not and I don't think he really was.
 

TarXan

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How is my looking into it irrelevant? You didn’t look into elis display against indura all that much and argued even against her power being at the AA level despite her feat, which you claim to be non existent, and now say that otakus “theories are coming to fruition” despite believing he was delusional even though you had the same information he had to use. Did you look into it?

When chandler came in and revealed he had taught Mel full counter, by looking into it, you would be able to suspect that mel may have had an innate magic of his own or that there were some circumstance revolving around why he never used it. And even before chandler, you had the fact that everyone of the seven deadly sins had a background to the magic they possessed except Mel, the mc of mcs, to look into and question. Did you? Look how it played out.

It has been claimed that mael is the strongest AA, not the strongest member of his clan, and when you look into it, which I do to the best of my ability for everyone and everything, his title is closely linked to a power given to him. So yes he has been called the strongest AA, but I have also been given reason to wonder wether he is the strongest gc member, regardless of the results of my speculation.

Yes the COED was used after the “death of mael” but what do you see when you look into it? You see that there was sometime after his “death” before it was used evidenced by the blood of kin on maels hands. As a result of the flashback in 200, you see that even before maels “death” there was disobedience and counterproductivity towards the goals of the gc by some of its strongest members. You also see that Mael was not the only one to leave as drole and gloxinia had turncoat (not to mention the implications of possible discord among the clans they lead and by extension the impact on the alliance that is stigma) as well as the death of Mel and Eli before the conclusion of the war. I was mistaken. The dc lost 1, the gc “gained” 1 then the gc lost four while the dc gained two more.

To summarize:
though the gc lost mel, they gained esarossa. By the end the DC lost one but gained three, while the GC lost four with discord amongst the top figures and no gain. This is what you can see. Is it relavent? I think it’s possible.


This was what mon said. If he took in more he would be destroyed. No specifics to amount taken nor time he could control. He simply said that he would be destroyed. Mael with three was able to handle and control them better than estarossa but his soul was still being corrupted and destroyed. The basis for mons statement was on how one commandment left him unstable. Three in mael, and mael was still unstable. Mon wasn’t wrong. And I don’t think it was stated only mel could do it. He said “it’s one thing for mel or zel.” I’m not sure of where it was expressed only Mel or zel could do it either. I don’t see why it isn’t more of a possibility for, say, mon to be able either. Maels strength and capability allowed him to do what he did but his biology got in the way. Isn’t it possible for someone powerful to do it as well?
But that’s the thing though we actually have multiple sources CONFIRMING Mael is the strongest, a lot of the examples you revealed were indirectly revealed as the story progressed

It was stated that Elizabeth is comparable to Meliodas which is just a gauge of her powers but Mael was literally confirmed to be the strongest Arc Angel by 4 different sources

Also we can even gauge Mael’s strength by Escanor’s feats, a freaking human who can’t even maximize the full potential of the Sun Grace damn near never lost a battle with the strongest characters in the entire series

I totally understand and agree with you but Mael isn’t the same as other characters where they’re strength is completely mysterious & get revealed indirectly

- Sariel stated he can regulate 3 Commandments at Base because he’s the strongest AA

- Dollther stated Mael was the mightiest of the 4 Arc Angels

- Tarmiel stated it was impossible for someone of Estarossa’s caliber to defeat Mael

- Ludociel blatantly stated Mael would be the one to surpass, implying that at the time Ludo was the strongest member of the GC

- Gowther stated Mael is a very powerful existence

- Ludociel stated towards noon, he can’t hope to compete or compare with Mael mean it’s hopeless to even put them in the same category or realm of power

- Sariel and Tarmiel restating that Mael’s death cause a major shift in the holy war

- The Goddess clan sacrificed their ENTIRE race after Mael died

I understand what you’re saying but Nakaba would literally be the worst author ever if there was an Angel superior to Mael excluding the SD because it contradicts the whole purpose of the entire manga’s story which all began because of the Goddess Clan using the Coffin of Eternal Darkness because Mael was turned into Estarossa
 

T25

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But that’s the thing though we actually have multiple sources CONFIRMING Mael is the strongest, a lot of the examples you revealed were indirectly revealed as the story progressed

It was stated that Elizabeth is comparable to Meliodas which is just a gauge of her powers but Mael was literally confirmed to be the strongest Arc Angel by 4 different sources

Also we can even gauge Mael’s strength by Escanor’s feats, a freaking human who can’t even maximize the full potential of the Sun Grace damn near never lost a battle with the strongest characters in the entire series

I totally understand and agree with you but Mael isn’t the same as other characters where they’re strength is completely mysterious & get revealed indirectly

- Sariel stated he can regulate 3 Commandments at Base because he’s the strongest AA

- Dollther stated Mael was the mightiest of the 4 Arc Angels

- Tarmiel stated it was impossible for someone of Estarossa’s caliber to defeat Mael

- Ludociel blatantly stated Mael would be the one to surpass, implying that at the time Ludo was the strongest member of the GC

- Gowther stated Mael is a very powerful existence

- Ludociel stated towards noon, he can’t hope to compete or compare with Mael mean it’s hopeless to even put them in the same category or realm of power

- Sariel and Tarmiel restating that Mael’s death cause a major shift in the holy war

- The Goddess clan sacrificed their ENTIRE race after Mael died

I understand what you’re saying but Nakaba would literally be the worst author ever if there was an Angel superior to Mael excluding the SD because it contradicts the whole purpose of the entire manga’s story which all began because of the Goddess Clan using the Coffin of Eternal Darkness because Mael was turned into Estarossa
Yes we have many statements of mael being the strongest AA. It is those reveals as the story progressed that enable a deeper understanding of the reality, so to speak, within the story. Many of those had a basis within the story prior to their reveals.

Ignoring that sun is a loaned power, I can only think of one person potentially turning out to be truly more powerful than mael other than the sd and thats Eli. Mael of sun at his peak is powerful to a degree I do not know and I don’t see much wrong with saying that he maybe second to few in his clan in that state. However, that mysteriousness of other characters is the foundation of what would come to pass in the future. Escanor is known as the mightiest of the sds. Come to find out that, there was a set up for Mel to turn out to have actually been stronger in the past and forced back into the possession of that power to contend against escanor for that title. And it was all rooted in mels past and situation. It was stated repeatedly and implied repeatedly that estarossa was the middle child. That didn’t turn out true. Gowthers choice to use mael because of his power, while not completely false, turned out to be a mask for his desire for vengeance rather than just an end to the war. You have mystery and then you have halve truths. Just because you are told something by the story doesn’t automatically make it true when given a panarama view. And that’s because you are being told a story through the eyes of characters that for the most part do not have this panarama view. Sometimes that is reflected in the story.

Now as for the case with mael vs Eli I’ll give three hypotheticals:
1. What if the graces turned out be elis?
2. What if Eli had an innate magic power on the same level as Mel?
3. What if Eli had never shown off the depth of her power, with it only being known to her mother who has not shown up yet?
All of these have roots in the mysteriousness of her characters history as well as the fact that she is unlike any other character with repeated use of violence. You have repeated statements of maels power as an AA but what do you know of Eli? Of course this may ultimately turn out meaningless and mael with sun was truly second only to the sd but the fact that this is an ongoing story with histories almost completely unknown is cause for speculation. Is it not true that eli is in a top 5 list or something of people whose history is pretty unknown?

As for your last paragraph I think the perception of importance is scewed. A giant and most significant portion of this story is about Mel and Eli. Be it birth or death, this story began with them not the COED. You keep saying and emphasizing that the coffin was used because of maels death but why do you keep relegating the significance of the continuation of the war after it and the death of Mel and Eli before the use of the coffin? You say that the betrayal of gloxinia and dolor, that was also before the use of the coffin, was ultimately insignificant but those were not only the most powerful of their clan, they were also their leaders and the forefigures of the alliance that was the gcs side. Yes the use of the coffin was attributed to the death of mael by the story but this same story also showed you what I have just stated.
 

the powerscaller

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Yes we have many statements of mael being the strongest AA. It is those reveals as the story progressed that enable a deeper understanding of the reality, so to speak, within the story. May of those had a basis within the story prior to their reveals.

Ignoring that sun is a loaned power, I can only think of one person potentially turning out to be truly more powerful than mael other than the sd and thats Eli. Mael of sun at his peak is powerful to a degree I do not know and I don’t see much wrong with saying that he maybe second to few in his clan in that state. However, that mysteriousness of other characters is the foundation of what would come to pass in the future. Escanor is known as the mightiest of the sds. Come to find out that, there was a set up for Mel to turn out to have actually been stronger in the past and forced back into the possession of that power to contend against escanor for that title. And it was all rooted in mels past and situation. It was stated repeatedly and implied repeatedly that estarossa was the middle child. That didn’t turn out true. Gowthers choice to use mael because of his power, while not completely false, turned out to be a mask for his desire for vengeance rather than just an end to the war. You have mystery and then you have halve truths. Just because you are told something by the story doesn’t automatically make it true when given a panarama view. And that’s because you are being told a story through the eyes of characters that for the most part do not have this panarama view. Sometimes that is reflected in the story.

Now as for the case with mael vs Eli I’ll give three hypotheticals:
1. What if the graces turned out be elis?
2. What if Eli had an innate magic power on the same level as Mel?
3. What if Eli had never shown off the depth of her power, with it only being known to her mother who has not shown up yet?
All of these have roots in the mysteriousness of her characters history as well as the fact that she is unlike any other character with repeated use of violence. You have repeated statements of maels power as an AA but what do you know of Eli? Of course this may ultimately turn out meaningless and mael with sun was truly second only to the sd but the fact that this is an ongoing story with histories almost completely unknown is cause for speculation. Is it not true that eli is in a top 5 list or something of people whose history is pretty unknown?

As for your last paragraph I think the perception of importance is scewed. A giant and most significant portion of this story is about Mel and Eli. Be it birth or death, this story began with them not the COED. You keep saying and emphasizing that the coffin was used because of maels death but why do you keep relegating the significance of the continuation of the war after it and the death of Mel and Eli before the use of the coffin? You say that the betrayal of gloxinia and dolor, that was also before the use of the coffin, was ultimately insignificant but those were not only the most powerful of their clan, they were also their leaders and the forefigures of the alliance that was the gcs side. Yes the use of the coffin was attributed to the death of mael by the story but this same story also showed you what I have just stated.
bro you have nothing but pure assumptions and speculations
 

TarXan

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Yes we have many statements of mael being the strongest AA. It is those reveals as the story progressed that enable a deeper understanding of the reality, so to speak, within the story. Many of those had a basis within the story prior to their reveals.

Ignoring that sun is a loaned power, I can only think of one person potentially turning out to be truly more powerful than mael other than the sd and thats Eli. Mael of sun at his peak is powerful to a degree I do not know and I don’t see much wrong with saying that he maybe second to few in his clan in that state. However, that mysteriousness of other characters is the foundation of what would come to pass in the future. Escanor is known as the mightiest of the sds. Come to find out that, there was a set up for Mel to turn out to have actually been stronger in the past and forced back into the possession of that power to contend against escanor for that title. And it was all rooted in mels past and situation. It was stated repeatedly and implied repeatedly that estarossa was the middle child. That didn’t turn out true. Gowthers choice to use mael because of his power, while not completely false, turned out to be a mask for his desire for vengeance rather than just an end to the war. You have mystery and then you have halve truths. Just because you are told something by the story doesn’t automatically make it true when given a panarama view. And that’s because you are being told a story through the eyes of characters that for the most part do not have this panarama view. Sometimes that is reflected in the story.

Now as for the case with mael vs Eli I’ll give three hypotheticals:
1. What if the graces turned out be elis?
2. What if Eli had an innate magic power on the same level as Mel?
3. What if Eli had never shown off the depth of her power, with it only being known to her mother who has not shown up yet?
All of these have roots in the mysteriousness of her characters history as well as the fact that she is unlike any other character with repeated use of violence. You have repeated statements of maels power as an AA but what do you know of Eli? Of course this may ultimately turn out meaningless and mael with sun was truly second only to the sd but the fact that this is an ongoing story with histories almost completely unknown is cause for speculation. Is it not true that eli is in a top 5 list or something of people whose history is pretty unknown?

As for your last paragraph I think the perception of importance is scewed. A giant and most significant portion of this story is about Mel and Eli. Be it birth or death, this story began with them not the COED. You keep saying and emphasizing that the coffin was used because of maels death but why do you keep relegating the significance of the continuation of the war after it and the death of Mel and Eli before the use of the coffin? You say that the betrayal of gloxinia and dolor, that was also before the use of the coffin, was ultimately insignificant but those were not only the most powerful of their clan, they were also their leaders and the forefigures of the alliance that was the gcs side. Yes the use of the coffin was attributed to the death of mael by the story but this same story also showed you what I have just stated.
I know Sun is a loaned power lmfao, point blank period Mael was seen as the Jesus Christ of his clan

Also you keep bringing up hypotheticals, speculations & assumptions

Also Meliodas & Elizabeth were definitely still alive according to Mael’s flashback of him being turned into Estarossa

But being is, when the coffin of eternal darkness is brought up, it’s directly linked to Mael, not the death of Elizabeth/Meliodas or Glox/Drole switching sides

Gowther, The Arc Angels, Jelamet and various sources literally stated that Mael dying gave everyone incentive to sacrifice themselves, even Ludociel one of the strongest on the Goddess side
 

T25

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bro you have nothing but pure assumptions and speculations
I know Sun is a loaned power lmfao, point blank period Mael was seen as the Jesus Christ of his clan

Also you keep bringing up hypotheticals, speculations & assumptions

Also Meliodas & Elizabeth were definitely still alive according to Mael’s flashback of him being turned into Estarossa

But being is, when the coffin of eternal darkness is brought up, it’s directly linked to Mael, not the death of Elizabeth/Meliodas or Glox/Drole switching sides

Gowther, The Arc Angels, Jelamet and various sources literally stated that Mael dying gave everyone incentive to sacrifice themselves, even Ludociel one of the strongest on the Goddess side
I am well aware that I am using speculation. It is the entire point of my comments. I am using speculation because I am speculating wether or not mael is truly and ultimately the most powerful of his clan other than the sd. It is due to speculation that when some are proven wrong others can say that that they saw it and understand it. In many cases, it is also because of a lack of doing so, coupled with a proud character, that you have statements claiming “bs” or that others are “delusional.” There really is a fine line.
Estarossa being mael was speculation until it was revealed in the story was it not?
Mel being the son of the dk was speculation until it was revealed in the story was it not? Eli being the daughter of the sd was speculation until it was revealed in the story was it not?
Hawk having some notable significance to the story was speculation until it was revealed in the story was it not?
Eli being a goddess was speculation until it was revealed in the story was it not?
The dk was spying on Mel was speculation until it was revealed in the story was it not?
Zels strength and capabilities was speculation until it was revealed in the story was it not?
Everything you know of the story until now was speculation you could have had in the window of time before it was revealed in the story. Do you not understand the significance of being able to speculate what is and what isn’t in an ongoing story that provides you with the means to make a judgement or provide a possibility? Did you not understand what I was saying?


Mel and Eli were alive when mael was turned into estarossa but they had died before the coffin was used. I thought I had already expressed this.

When the coffin is brought up, which isn’t often, characters link it to mael. Are you saying that you are unable and unwanting of seeing the details surrounding it? You say that the fact that it was used on mael and the subsequent effect is proof of maels unquestioned superiority but what then of maels claim that there were at least two others that could have been used for the same effect. The man who had decided to help and cast the spell in the first place did not refute him. Instead, said man explained that the real reason was for vengeance. Does this not imply that the importance you place on the effect of maels absence is a significance just as easily placed on the shoulders of the two people that could have been used in his stead? Ergo, would this not also mean that ludo and Eli are just as second in the clan as mael?
 
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BurlapJack

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When elizabeth awakens her innate magic, she will be superior to mael and you all will deal with it
 

OtakuFreak

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That makes 0 sense, if there was a Goddess member beyond Mael why the hell would they feel the need to activate the Coffin ????
No one was beyond Mael though? At best, Ludoshel or Elizabeth could be very comparable or on par with Mael when it wasn't morning or near-noon. Mael was seen as the ''hope'' of the Goddess Clan, so not only did his death heavily impact the balance power of the Goddesses, but it also pretty much fucked them up psychologically since they became suicidal or get triggered at the thought of his ''death''.

Hell, Jelamet literally started crying like a little bitch when Escanor appeared before her whom had the same vibe as Mael, so whilst Ludoshel + Elizabeth are comparable to Base Mael, the latter's importance to the clan is even greater since he was worshipped like a God.

Excluding the SD, Mael was the strongest, I don’t think it’s a debate, literally the Holy War ended because the Goddesses felt sacrificing themselves was the only option after Mael’s supposed death

If there was another Angel above him then literally what was the point of sacrificing the entire clan ?????
Like I said, Ludoshel or Elizabeth weren't above him, at best they could match his strength when sun became inactive but the emotional importance of Mael to the clan was much greater than anybody else, so his death largely had the biggest impact.

But at the same time, the other events of the war must've

This was never even confirmed

When Mael became Estarossa, Meliodas and Elizabeth where still alive according to the flashback
But it wasn't long before they were killed. Hell, the fact that the Goddesses didn't IMMEDIATELY activate the seal and only did it after Elizabeth + Meliodas death followed Mael's suggests that not all hope was lost and that some faith was had in the remaining top tiers.

Mael was still alive when Stigma was betrayed in the FKF as well

Drole and Gloxinia switching sides wouldn’t be enough to phase stigma because in the end their fodder compared to Mael, Elizabeth, Ludociel & Meliodas

We don’t know when the chain of events happened or took place
It obviously wasn't a large factor, but with the Giant & Fairy King's betraying stigma, its pretty obvious that the Fairy + Giant Clan's were probably lost and weren't as trusted anymore.

Still contributed to the seal being activated.

Also for the chain of events, we know what happened though?
 

TarXan

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I am well aware that I am using speculation. It is the entire point of my comments. I am using speculation because I am speculating wether or not mael is truly and ultimately the most powerful of his clan other than the sd. It is due to speculation that when some are proven wrong others can say that that they saw it and understand it. In many cases, it is also because of a lack of doing so, coupled with a proud character, that you have statements claiming “bs” or that others are “delusional.” There really is a fine line.
Estarossa being mael was speculation until it was revealed in the story was it not?
Mel being the son of the dk was speculation until it was revealed in the story was it not? Eli being the daughter of the sd was speculation until it was revealed in the story was it not?
Hawk having some notable significance to the story was speculation until it was revealed in the story was it not?
Eli being a goddess was speculation until it was revealed in the story was it not?
The dk was spying on Mel was speculation until it was revealed in the story was it not?
Zels strength and capabilities was speculation until it was revealed in the story was it not?
Everything you know of the story until now was speculation you could have had in the window of time before it was revealed in the story. Do you not understand the significance of being able to speculate what is and what isn’t in an ongoing story that provides you with the means to make a judgement or provide a possibility? Did you not understand what I was saying?


Mel and Eli were alive when mael was turned into estarossa but they had died before the coffin was used. I thought I had already expressed this.

When the coffin is brought up, which isn’t often, characters link it to mael. Are you saying that you are unable and unwanting of seeing the details surrounding it? You say that the fact that it was used on mael and the subsequent effect is proof of maels unquestioned superiority but what then of maels claim that there were at least two others that could have been used for the same effect. The man who had decided to help and cast the spell in the first place did not refute him. Instead, said man explained that the real reason was for vengeance. Does this not imply that the importance you place on the effect of maels absence is a significance just as easily placed on the shoulders of the two people that could have been used in his stead? Ergo, would this not also mean that ludo and Eli are just as second in the clan as mael?
Oh nah this has been dragging in for too long, all evidence points to Mael but the strongest in the GC, as he was seen as the hope of his clan, but we can put those statements on standby, go ahead and keep an open mind about there being a GC member above Mael which would literally make no fucking sense but let’s agreed to disagree
 

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Oh nah this has been dragging in for too long, all evidence points to Mael but the strongest in the GC, as he was seen as the hope of his clan, but we can put those statements on standby, go ahead and keep an open mind about there being a GC member above Mael which would literally make no fucking sense but let’s agreed to disagree
No sense huh. So be it
 

Kay3795

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Sun Mael is clearly the strongest Goddess besides the SD, I don't think that's debatable. What is very questionable is whether graceless Mael was the strongest besides the SD or not and I don't think he really was.
Mael's sensei, Ludo, was very clear when he said Mael only surpasses him at HighNoon to Noon so graceless Mael is probably a weakling to all AA with Grace.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
On another note, the Holy War apparently had the like of the MOC also against the Demons. Damn, how many enemies did the Demon Clan have? lol
 

Ger

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Like seriously, how the fuck did they let bellion and later meliodas enter their realm so easily?
meliodas being stronger than mael and knowing that he could easily open a portal to the realm which was shown in the movie clearly says that.
 

Mael the strongest

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Mael's sensei, Ludo, was very clear when he said Mael only surpasses him at HighNoon to Noon so graceless Mael is probably a weakling to all AA with Grace.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
On another note, the Holy War apparently had the like of the MOC also against the Demons. Damn, how many enemies did the Demon Clan have? lol
So ludo was such a visionary guy that he looked into future and saw that the little boy is going to get a grace called sunshine and he will become stronger than him when its near to noon ....WOW .......RIP LOGIC.
I actually think MOC is a part of SD or created by SD though .
And yes they were called demons so its natural they would have lot kf enemies everyone hates demons even in real life
 

Kay3795

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So ludo was such a visionary guy that he looked into future and saw that the little boy is going to get a grace called sunshine and he will become stronger than him when its near to noon ....WOW .......RIP LOGIC.
I actually think MOC is a part of SD or created by SD though .
And yes they were called demons so its natural they would have lot kf enemies everyone hates demons even in real life
The hell are you even on about? I think you're so far down in your obsessive thinkings of Mael that you're not even making sense anymore.
 

Mael the strongest

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The hell are you even on about? I think you're so far down in your obsessive thinkings of Mael that you're not even making sense anymore.
Fine ypu just explain me that how is he the weakest AA without grace
 

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