Discussion The Holy war

Who started the war?

  • The demon clan

    Votes: 13 26.5%
  • The Goddess clan

    Votes: 27 55.1%
  • Humans

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 9 18.4%

  • Total voters
    49

Ger

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As for the Zeldris fear thing, it was probably cause Mel was a ruthless bastard back then, while Zel was still mostly wide eyed and innocent.
How do you fear someone when they're just being ruthless? ruthless is nothing but you showing no pity towards someone. Ion even know if you're aware of what ruthless even means. Innocent? last time i checked he was "innocent" when protecting gelda. So your point is moot.
you can't be feared by just be ing ruthless, you need mostly power in order for it to work.


The statent isn't vague at all, what the hell? Mael explicitly states there were other warriors equal to Meliodas and if anything he, having factually fought both Meliodas and his older brother and Elizabeth, is the one most qualified to make such a statement
where was it stated mael fought ludo, elizabeth?? you're making this big claims which you haven't showed scans of.
That's not a fallacy though, since he isn't saying this actually happened, but rather that it could have happened, which you would actually have to disprove if you wanted to prove without a doubt that Mael's retreat is a sign of his inferiority.
you don't even know what fallacy even means. So let m refute this, if mael who HIMSELF stated in the same manga chapter that killing demons IS NO DIFFERENT, then why would he retreat? it's simple common sense and logic, it means he's inferior to meliodas.
I have a theory on that, I think it's because of Elizabeth.

When Mael was a child and was in love with Elizabeth, she brought home a dog and said "Meliodas" named him, so he was aware of them being a couple at this point but never met Meliodas.

Fast forward to the bellion stuff, he saw him for the first time and asked who he was and upon hearing Bellion say he was Meliodas he probably decided not to fight for real because of Elizabeth and fled after a few blows

Fast forward to the chapter where we have the flashback of Mael turning into Estarossa, we clearly have a panel where we see Meliodas and Elizabeth kissing with adult Mael watching in the distance and being sad about it

So the strongest archangel was VERY aware of Meliodas, but decided not to fight him because it would make Elizabeth sad and or she would stand against him if he tried to attack Meliodas


He saw his crush kissing the enemy leader a few meters away but out of love he still didn't lift a finger against him, not then, not for the whole war.
if that theory is what you're saying it contradicts what happened in the special chapter. Mael DID NOT even know who he was, and he resorted on saying "A darkness that doesn't falter before my sun. Who is this?".
So it literally just proves how nakaba's timeline in previous holy war being messed up. Not only that it was already confirmed the MENTALITY of mael in the holy war which is t o show no mercy against demons and they should be killed. His mindset was influenced by ludo and follows his path.



since mods don't want the same discussion might as well continue it in here.
 

Boldon

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if that theory is what you're saying it contradicts what happened in the special chapter. Mael DID NOT even know who he was, and he resorted on saying "A darkness that doesn't falter before my sun. Who is this?".
So it literally just proves how nakaba's timeline in previous holy war being messed up.
What do you mean, of course he knew who Meliodas was, he just never saw his face before this encounter

He met someone whose darkness withstood his sunshine, so what, this could've been any high tier demon

I said :" so he was aware of them being a couple at this point but never met Meliodas "

and why would he have met Meliodas, Elizabeth and him were meeting in secret, not in public

I didn't see anyone bat an eye when Zeldris and Ludociel said they never met, Meliodas didn't even know who Gelda was before meeting her, heck every single citizen the sins met in season one didn't even recognize the sins (I mean Meliodas was running a bar, cmon)

And you know why nobody recognizes anyone unless they personality met/know them?

Because Facebook isn't a thing in taizai, you may hear someone's name from his accomplishments or through a discussion with someone but until you meet the dude you have no idea who this is

So as I was saying, Bellion told Meliodas's name and ONLY THEN did Mael realise who he was facing

t was already confirmed the MENTALITY of mael in the holy war which is t o show no mercy against demons
It was his mentality but he was also in love with Elizabeth and this was above his brainwashing by Ludociel

Remember that Mael deep down is a good dude before being a genocidal maniac, I doubt he would go out of his way to make an enemy of Elizabeth

Remember Sariel and Tarmiel disobeying Ludociel to help Elizabeth save demons? I can assure you 100% that Mael would've done the same

Nothing about my theory is hard to believe, what would be hard to believe is the actual scenario without the theory, why would Mael run away and why would Meliodas even let him run away
 

Ger

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So as I was saying, Bellion told Meliodas's name and ONLY THEN did Mael realise who he was facing
that's as if it was implied mael heard it. They were several meters apart from each other (bellion and mael).
He met someone whose darkness withstood his sunshine, so what, this could've been any high tier demon

I said :" so he was aware of them being a couple at this point but never met Meliodas "

and why would he have met Meliodas, Elizabeth and him were meeting in secret, not in public

I didn't see anyone bat an eye when Zeldris and Ludociel said they never met, Meliodas didn't even know who Gelda was before meeting her, heck every single citizen the sins met in season one didn't even recognize the sins (I mean Meliodas was running a bar, cmon)

And you know why nobody recognizes anyone unless they personality met/know them?

Because Facebook isn't a thing in taizai, you may hear someone's name from his accomplishments or through a discussion with someone but until you meet the dude you have no idea who this is
well The grace dispersed True night which was casted by chandler who's a high tier demon meanwhile we have meliodas own darkness not flinching to any of it. Not only that in chapter 273 the showing of estarossa's memories being corrected the way they were shown that mael in his like normal clothing being praised by ludo and seeing meliodas hugged elizabeth, so how can you guaranteed the claim that mael never saw meliodas personally before his fight with him and assumingly that mael heard bellion saying "meliodas", therefore he retreated. Of course zeldris never met ludo and that's literally what the statement occur. Also can you show me scans where meliodas never knew gelda until he met her? Wasn't that because every citizen thought that the poster looks differently than their actual image? hence we have posters of meliodas being estarossa look a like.


It was his mentality but he was also in love with Elizabeth and this was above his brainwashing by Ludociel
nice strong claim so provide evidence of him loving elizabeth was above his own influence wanting to be like ludo. Not only that, you need to realize that elizabeth's true goal was not to kill, so why would he still kill demon citizens and saying killing demons is like a heaven, so if he loves elizabeth just like you said he wouldn't kill demons even though elizabeth never wanted to have the war.


Remember that Mael deep down is a good dude before being a genocidal maniac, I doubt he would go out of his way to make an enemy of Elizabeth
oh yeah because its completely irrelevant when talking about mael when he was an AA rather than today, which his persona back then was always shown to be this ruthless goddess who kills demons for living.
Remember Sariel and Tarmiel disobeying Ludociel to help Elizabeth save demons? I can assure you 100% that Mael would've done the same
completely headcanon. so either assure that your claims are strong via showing evidence or this is mainly a moot point. Oh yeah btw sariel and tarmiel is not like mael who admires ludo so much, heck we don't even know much about them. So why going to this headcanon route?
Nothing about my theory is hard to believe, what would be hard to believe is the actual scenario without the theory, why would Mael run away and why would Meliodas even let him run away
That's simple he was merely inferior. This is backed by how his mentality goes towards demons.
 

Seven777

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How do you fear someone when they're just being ruthless? ruthless is nothing but you showing no pity towards someone. Ion even know if you're aware of what ruthless even means. Innocent? last time i checked he was "innocent" when protecting gelda. So your point is moot.
you can't be feared by just be ing ruthless, you need mostly power in order for it to work.




where was it stated mael fought ludo, elizabeth?? you're making this big claims which you haven't showed scans of.


you don't even know what fallacy even means. So let m refute this, if mael who HIMSELF stated in the same manga chapter that killing demons IS NO DIFFERENT, then why would he retreat? it's simple common sense and logic, it means he's inferior to meliodas.


if that theory is what you're saying it contradicts what happened in the special chapter. Mael DID NOT even know who he was, and he resorted on saying "A darkness that doesn't falter before my sun. Who is this?".
So it literally just proves how nakaba's timeline in previous holy war being messed up. Not only that it was already confirmed the MENTALITY of mael in the holy war which is t o show no mercy against demons and they should be killed. His mindset was influenced by ludo and follows his path.



since mods don't want the same discussion might as well continue it in here.
Ruthlessness is showing no pity or compassion to anything, not something you want in a boss, especially if you fail them, and while "ruthless" is the word i used to describe Meliodas last comment, i'm not sure why you're so desperately clinging to its definition, its not like its the only fear inducing word thats attributed to him. Mel has been described as cold hearted, emotionless, ruthless and cruel, he's basically a psychopath. Anyone in their right mind would fear having a known cruel psychopath so close at hand, especially if you know he's stronger than you are.
 

Ger

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Ruthlessness is showing no pity or compassion to anything, not something you want in a boss, especially if you fail them, and while "ruthless" is the word i used to describe Meliodas last comment, i'm not sure why you're so desperately clinging to its definition, its not like its the only fear inducing word thats attributed to him. Mel has been described as cold hearted, emotionless, ruthless and cruel, he's basically a psychopath. Anyone in their right mind would fear having a known cruel psychopath so close at hand, especially if you know he's stronger than you are.
then you pointed out what being ruthless means, so that DOESN'T prove either that he was afraid because of his cold shoulders. That's a headcanon on your part. Actually "fear" was used when describing his relationship with zeldris, so idk where you're trying to put away the initial premise when clearly zeldris DID fear meliodas. Being cold hearted and emotionless, yeah BECAUSE that's his personality back then. Fear is not a personality, it is a psychological thing. Being a psychopath is your headcanon, the only one that was decribed was by DK, merlin and zeldris as being the most terrifying demon, ruthless, cold hearted etc. Being scared of psychopath because your abilities WOULD not affect any of them clearly means you're leagues inferior to them. This is like me saying without any weapons but fist vs a psychopath who has knife and machete, would i be afraid? yes because he has the weapons that is beyond my capabilities.
 

Seven777

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then you pointed out what being ruthless means, so that DOESN'T prove either that he was afraid because of his cold shoulders. That's a headcanon on your part. Actually "fear" was used when describing his relationship with zeldris, so idk where you're trying to put away the initial premise when clearly zeldris DID fear meliodas. Being cold hearted and emotionless, yeah BECAUSE that's his personality back then. Fear is not a personality, it is a psychological thing. Being a psychopath is your headcanon, the only one that was decribed was by DK, merlin and zeldris as being the most terrifying demon, ruthless, cold hearted etc. Being scared of psychopath because your abilities WOULD not affect any of them clearly means you're leagues inferior to them. This is like me saying without any weapons but fist vs a psychopath who has knife and machete, would i be afraid? yes because he has the weapons that is beyond my capabilities.
So? I never said Zel didnt use to fear Mel.
Meliodas was described as cold, emotionless and cruel, you dont have to call him a psychopath, the traits are what matter.
You would also be afraid if you ate and slept in the same house as a known cruel psychopath, regardless of if you, he, or both of you had a knife.
Nowhere is it said that Zel feared Meliodas because his abilities would not affect him.
Notice how current Zel isnt afraid of Meliodas despite knowing his power? Fear is controlled by personality.
 

Boldon

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that's as if it was implied mael heard it. They were several meters apart from each other (bellion and mael).


well The grace dispersed True night which was casted by chandler who's a high tier demon meanwhile we have meliodas own darkness not flinching to any of it. Not only that in chapter 273 the showing of estarossa's memories being corrected the way they were shown that mael in his like normal clothing being praised by ludo and seeing meliodas hugged elizabeth, so how can you guaranteed the claim that mael never saw meliodas personally before his fight with him and assumingly that mael heard bellion saying "meliodas", therefore he retreated. Of course zeldris never met ludo and that's literally what the statement occur. Also can you show me scans where meliodas never knew gelda until he met her? Wasn't that because every citizen thought that the poster looks differently than their actual image? hence we have posters of meliodas being estarossa look a like.




nice strong claim so provide evidence of him loving elizabeth was above his own influence wanting to be like ludo. Not only that, you need to realize that elizabeth's true goal was not to kill, so why would he still kill demon citizens and saying killing demons is like a heaven, so if he loves elizabeth just like you said he wouldn't kill demons even though elizabeth never wanted to have the war.




oh yeah because its completely irrelevant when talking about mael when he was an AA rather than today, which his persona back then was always shown to be this ruthless goddess who kills demons for living.


completely headcanon. so either assure that your claims are strong via showing evidence or this is mainly a moot point. Oh yeah btw sariel and tarmiel is not like mael who admires ludo so much, heck we don't even know much about them. So why going to this headcanon route?


That's simple he was merely inferior. This is backed by how his mentality goes towards demons.
Alright, now that you say it, there are several holes in my theory

I'll stick to my interpretation though, no one has the answer beside Nakaba so I'll wait until he answers it
 

Ger

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So? I never said Zel didnt use to fear Mel.
Meliodas was described as cold, emotionless and cruel, you dont have to call him a psychopath, the traits are what matter.
You would also be afraid if you ate and slept in the same house as a known cruel psychopath, regardless of if you, he, or both of you had a knife.
Nowhere is it said that Zel feared Meliodas because his abilities would not affect him.
Notice how current Zel isnt afraid of Meliodas despite knowing his power? Fear is controlled by personality.
okay being called cold, emotionless doesn't make someone showing fear, in NNT having immense power would MAKE someone pay attention to you and shock of your power let alone fearing you. Mela said when meliodas goes into AM he was feared by the commandments, does that mean they were just scared because of his personality? You're arguing based on baseless claim without any giving definition of what "fearing is"
Notice how current zel in chapter 246 despite knowing his inferiority was driven by hatred and determination to become DK lmao. What goal did he have back then aside from protecting gelda? because back then meliodas was not an enemy compare to chapter 246.

Zel feared meliodas that's all you need to know and you NEED TO PROVIDE evidence that fear is a personality thing, which i have PROVEN factually that its psychological thing which its always in humans but not exposed until that person shows horrifying perception.

Yeah totally using psychopath to suggest that meliodas was crazy is literally headcanon. So now you're changing the narrative to "it doesn't matter whether you have the same weapon, you would still be scared". what a good way to literally strawman the argument which the analogy i made about psychopath refers to one having a weapon and higher ground.
 

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okay being called cold, emotionless doesn't make someone showing fear, in NNT having immense power would MAKE someone pay attention to you and shock of your power let alone fearing you. Mela said when meliodas goes into AM he was feared by the commandments, does that mean they were just scared because of his personality? You're arguing based on baseless claim without any giving definition of what "fearing is"
Notice how current zel in chapter 246 despite knowing his inferiority was driven by hatred and determination to become DK lmao. What goal did he have back then aside from protecting gelda? because back then meliodas was not an enemy compare to chapter 246.

Zel feared meliodas that's all you need to know and you NEED TO PROVIDE evidence that fear is a personality thing, which i have PROVEN factually that its psychological thing which its always in humans but not exposed until that person shows horrifying perception.

Yeah totally using psychopath to suggest that meliodas was crazy is literally headcanon. So now you're changing the narrative to "it doesn't matter whether you have the same weapon, you would still be scared". what a good way to literally strawman the argument which the analogy i made about psychopath refers to one having a weapon and higher ground.
It does when you combine those two with cruel.
Yes, the commandments feared him because of his personality and his strength, you dont fear someone just because they're strong, which is why none of the Sins feared 32k Mel back when they were only 4k.
So what if Zel was fueled by hatred and determination? He knows how strong Mel is, and he doesnt fear him.
So what if your analogy refers to only one having a weapon? I dont have to stick to your analogy. I changed it to illustrate that regardless of if you are on equal footing with the psychopath or not, you're still gonna be scared if you're spending your days with them.

Yes, Zel feared Meliodas, thats all i need to know. I dont need to hear your random theories and speculation on how this relates to Mel's strength.
 

Ger

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Yes, the commandments feared him because of his personality and his strength, you dont fear someone just because they're strong, which is why none of the Sins feared 32k Mel back when they were only 4k.
there you conceded right there that strength is applicable if someone is being feared or not. Why do u think that zeldris fears his father and obeys his bidding? Not only that commandments DID fear him due to his power and it would be your burden of proof otherwise that his prime self turning into AM does not fear any of them. Why would the sins feared meliodas who has no giving off a bloodlust that he wants to kill them. Not only that Diane DID fear meliodas when he used his demon mark not only that Ban towards the end of season 2 DID not even touch him like he usually does to meliodas, he clearly saw meliodas being savage and having that immense power which touching someone with 3 fingers indicates that ideal.
So what if Zel was fueled by hatred and determination? He knows how strong Mel is, and he doesnt fear him.
it literally just means that he was driven farther back and wanting to see gelda, this is not hard to grasp at all.


So what if your analogy refers to only one having a weapon? I dont have to stick to your analogy. I changed it to illustrate that regardless of if you are on equal footing with the psychopath or not, you're still gonna be scared if you're spending your days with them.
Psychopath is merely a state of someone's mind of what their mind is intending to do. So clearly based on fallacious argument that you should fear a psychopath which in this world no one fears them UNLESS they have a weapon which the latter doesn't.
Yes, Zel feared Meliodas, thats all i need to know. I dont need to hear your random theories and speculation on how this relates to Mel's strength.
Zel feared meliodas while loving him at the same time, so clearly he fears him EVEN showing in the panel beating the crap outta him. So you clearly did not illustrate your argument pretty well.


Not only that
 

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there you conceded right there that strength is applicable if someone is being feared or not. Why do u think that zeldris fears his father and obeys his bidding? Not only that commandments DID fear him due to his power and it would be your burden of proof otherwise that his prime self turning into AM does not fear any of them. Why would the sins feared meliodas who has no giving off a bloodlust that he wants to kill them. Not only that Diane DID fear meliodas when he used his demon mark not only that Ban towards the end of season 2 DID not even touch him like he usually does to meliodas, he clearly saw meliodas being savage and having that immense power which touching someone with 3 fingers indicates that ideal.


it literally just means that he was driven farther back and wanting to see gelda, this is not hard to grasp at all.




Psychopath is merely a state of someone's mind of what their mind is intending to do. So clearly based on fallacious argument that you should fear a psychopath which in this world no one fears them UNLESS they have a weapon which the latter doesn't.


Zel feared meliodas while loving him at the same time, so clearly he fears him EVEN showing in the panel beating the crap outta him. So you clearly did not illustrate your argument pretty well.


Not only that
And right there you just conceded that personality is a reason to be afraid by asking "when has Meliodas given off bloodlust?".

Sure, Zel wants to see Gelda, and? Still doesnt change the fact that he isnt afraid of Mel despite knowing how powerful he is.

Nothing fallacious about it. If someone has no qualms about killing you and has the means to do so, you fear them, simple.

I didnt say Zel didnt love Mel, in fact his love may have been an additional source of his fear.
 

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I didnt say Zel didnt love Mel, in fact his love may have been an additional source of his fear.
and that's an assumption btw so you need to prove this as well.


And right there you just conceded that personality is a reason to be afraid by asking "when has Meliodas given off bloodlust?".
Bloodlust IS NOT a personality, please articulate your rebuttals correctly rather than saying "nope you're wrong", without giving self explanation and proof. Bloodlust is merely an act of wanting to kill which meliodas DOESN'T have all the time. If he does have it all the time he would've killed zeldris when he sparred with him.
Sure, Zel wants to see Gelda, and? Still doesnt change the fact that he isnt afraid of Mel despite knowing how powerful he is.
Actually that overrides the fear which i already explained earlier, meliodas even MENTIONS why zeldris was so fixated becoming the DK was due to that reason. What reasons does he have that he's so fixated for? nothing, he only wanted to protect gelda, but after all this happened he wants to see her again and live with her.
Nothing fallacious about it. If someone has no qualms about killing you and has the means to do so, you fear them, simple.
It is a fallacious argument to make. For two reason
1. You fear out of subconscious which you cannot control which has always been the case when fearing something
2. If you fear a psychopath who has no weapons and yet wanted to kill you with his bare hand, that just shows how inferior you are when it comes down to your abilities

this debunks everything that you said from the very get go.
 

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and that's an assumption btw so you need to prove this as well.




Bloodlust IS NOT a personality, please articulate your rebuttals correctly rather than saying "nope you're wrong", without giving self explanation and proof. Bloodlust is merely an act of wanting to kill which meliodas DOESN'T have all the time. If he does have it all the time he would've killed zeldris when he sparred with him.


Actually that overrides the fear which i already explained earlier, meliodas even MENTIONS why zeldris was so fixated becoming the DK was due to that reason. What reasons does he have that he's so fixated for? nothing, he only wanted to protect gelda, but after all this happened he wants to see her again and live with her.


It is a fallacious argument to make. For two reason
1. You fear out of subconscious which you cannot control which has always been the case when fearing something
2. If you fear a psychopath who has no weapons and yet wanted to kill you with his bare hand, that just shows how inferior you are when it comes down to your abilities

this debunks everything that you said from the very get go.
Sure, as soon as you go ahead and prove your assumptions about Zel fearing Mel being because he was so much stronger.

Ha, funny thing is that the "nope, you're wrong" thing is what you're notorious for around here, you know? As for the bloodlust thing, you gave a reason other than Meliodas' far greater power for the Sins to be afraid, which proves my point. Being far stronger than another character doesnt instill fear, which is why the Sins didnt fear Mel back when they were so much weaker than him.

You didnt explain anything of the sort, not that it would make a difference if you did since it was a poor point. Zeldris, before knowing that Gelda was still alive, still wasnt afraid of Meliodas.

Your personal views on fear dont interest me.
 

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Ha, funny thing is that the "nope, you're wrong" thing is what you're notorious for around here, you know? As for the bloodlust thing, you gave a reason other than Meliodas' far greater power for the Sins to be afraid, which proves my point. Being far stronger than another character doesnt instill fear, which is why the Sins didnt fear Mel back when they were so much weaker than him.
Uh what? yeah as soon as he had THAT blood lust his power grew and he transformed into his demonic state?? you clearly not getting the context of the argument here at all.

You didnt explain anything of the sort, not that it would make a difference if you did since it was a poor point. Zeldris, before knowing that Gelda was still alive, still wasnt afraid of Meliodas.
Okay so you're in this realm of "nope you're wrong again", so please rebuttal why it doesn't override fear because clearly if were going with real life psychological mentality, determination can override fear etc. So unless you have any good points to rebuttal it, i'll moot your point which doesn't even rebuttal the point that i already made.

Your personal views on fear dont interest me.
huh? you mean its been factually proven through scientific experiments on how fear works??? So until then your articulation and comprehension doesn't see the way your argument goes.
Ha, funny thing is that the "nope, you're wrong" thing is what you're notorious for around here, you know?
actually i give MORE articulation on my arguments why you're wrong, you on the other hand is the opposite. You cannot compensate your argument by addressing the point which you couldn't do the entire time.

Why do you think any other characters feared the other who has greater in power? the best example is zeref vs acnologia, zeref feared acnologia and wanted to end him using many power ups. Noting that Acnologia is far more evil than zeref but that doesn't take away his power as well which he's the pinnacle of that.

If your argument is what it is, then why would people fear the gods which compensate them WAY above the characters so far and feared them.



So the only way for your argument to go here is to admit that zeldris DID fear meliodas like the rest of the commandments did when he went into his assault mode. So either you stop giving this headcanon argument or i'll end the debate here with "a moot arguments all over the place"
 

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Uh what? yeah as soon as he had THAT blood lust his power grew and he transformed into his demonic state?? you clearly not getting the context of the argument here at all.



Okay so you're in this realm of "nope you're wrong again", so please rebuttal why it doesn't override fear because clearly if were going with real life psychological mentality, determination can override fear etc. So unless you have any good points to rebuttal it, i'll moot your point which doesn't even rebuttal the point that i already made.



huh? you mean its been factually proven through scientific experiments on how fear works??? So until then your articulation and comprehension doesn't see the way your argument goes.


actually i give MORE articulation on my arguments why you're wrong, you on the other hand is the opposite. You cannot compensate your argument by addressing the point which you couldn't do the entire time.

Why do you think any other characters feared the other who has greater in power? the best example is zeref vs acnologia, zeref feared acnologia and wanted to end him using many power ups. Noting that Acnologia is far more evil than zeref but that doesn't take away his power as well which he's the pinnacle of that.

If your argument is what it is, then why would people fear the gods which compensate them WAY above the characters so far and feared them.



So the only way for your argument to go here is to admit that zeldris DID fear meliodas like the rest of the commandments did when he went into his assault mode. So either you stop giving this headcanon argument or i'll end the debate here with "a moot arguments all over the place"
Its you who didnt get the context. In the early years of the Sins formation Meliodas was leagues stronger than the rest of the Sins, and they didnt fear him. Now if you wanna say thats because Mel didnt display bloodlust, then thats fine, doesnt change that Mel's far superior power didnt scare them.

I told you why, because Zeldris didnt know Gelda was alive and he still didnt fear Meliodas, there was no determination to override anything, other than just wanting to kill Mel that is.

If its factually proven provide links to the evidence as well as statements claiming that the views on fear you gave apply to everyone. If you can do that then i will debunk your point, if you cant then im not interested.

The only headcanon is your little narrative that says Zel's past fear of Mel means Mel is leagues beyond him. Provide a link with a statement that says Zel feared Mel because Mel was far stronger, otherwise you are just assuming and trying to pass your headcanon off as fact. So give a little proof to back up your claim, fail to do so and i will take that as your concession and end this argument here.
 

Ger

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If its factually proven provide links to the evidence as well as statements claiming that the views on fear you gave apply to everyone. If you can do that then i will debunk your point, if you cant then im not interested.


The only headcanon is your little narrative that says Zel's past fear of Mel means Mel is leagues beyond him. Provide a link with a statement that says Zel feared Mel because Mel was far stronger, otherwise you are just assuming and trying to pass your headcanon off as fact. So give a little proof to back up your claim, fail to do so and i will take that as your concession and end this argument here.
uh why would it be headcanon on the idea of "fearing" when there characters that have been fearing characters due to their nature? DK was feared by anyone and nobody went against him zeldris obeys his father, if he did not then he would be punished.

This is like when Luffy and the straw hats met Aokiji as a group but was sweating balls due to the fact he was there and they cannot take him on one on one, but yet luffy is worried about him.

It's literally a common sense which you can't grasp.
An example of another scaling comparison: Zeref fears acnologia due to his power and what he has done in the world, it was never directly stated why he feared acnologia due to power but its a fact of scaling.

Going back to your argument of psychopath, every psychopath has weapons to kill which criminals now adays being sentences. You without weapons would fear that psychopath due to the weapons being too differ and far below your physical capabilities. Knife>physical strength of humans.


If its factually proven provide links to the evidence as well as statements claiming that the views on fear you gave apply to everyone. If you can do that then i will debunk your point, if you cant then im not interested.
fear
noun
\ ˈfir \
Definition of fear
(Entry 1 of 2)
1a: an unpleasant often strong emotion caused by anticipation or awareness of danger
b(1): an instance of this emotion
(2): a state marked by this emotion
2: anxious concern : SOLICITUDE
3: profound reverence and awe especially toward God
4: reason for alarm : DANGER

This explains enough of evidence.

If characters in this series sees a danger why would they run away? a good example the commandments trying to run away from the induras. So why would zeldris fear meliodas based of his personality? that doesn't explain why he would be dangerous, he isn't like Kid buu who destroys everything in his path and destroys without a whim. Meliodas may be cold hearted but how does that make someone fear him due to that? being cold hearted doesn't cause danger until you prove it.



Its you who didnt get the context. In the early years of the Sins formation Meliodas was leagues stronger than the rest of the Sins, and they didnt fear him. Now if you wanna say thats because Mel didnt display bloodlust, then thats fine, doesnt change that Mel's far superior power didnt scare them.
Actually your argument was clear to me and you're now going to this strawman argument that i didn't. Meliodas was feared by the sins when he was in his demon form THAT'S due to his bloodlust state, that's why they were scared due to his bloodlust.

Why did you think the one that used "overpowered" (forgot the guys name) were scared SHITLESS when he felt the presence of Galan.


Your argument is crumblimg in many ways and its easy to expose it.
 

Seven777

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uh why would it be headcanon on the idea of "fearing" when there characters that have been fearing characters due to their nature? DK was feared by anyone and nobody went against him zeldris obeys his father, if he did not then he would be punished.

This is like when Luffy and the straw hats met Aokiji as a group but was sweating balls due to the fact he was there and they cannot take him on one on one, but yet luffy is worried about him.

It's literally a common sense which you can't grasp.
An example of another scaling comparison: Zeref fears acnologia due to his power and what he has done in the world, it was never directly stated why he feared acnologia due to power but its a fact of scaling.

Going back to your argument of psychopath, every psychopath has weapons to kill which criminals now adays being sentences. You without weapons would fear that psychopath due to the weapons being too differ and far below your physical capabilities. Knife>physical strength of humans.




fear
noun
\ ˈfir \
Definition of fear
(Entry 1 of 2)
1a: an unpleasant often strong emotion caused by anticipation or awareness of danger
b(1): an instance of this emotion
(2): a state marked by this emotion
2: anxious concern : SOLICITUDE
3: profound reverence and awe especially toward God
4: reason for alarm : DANGER

This explains enough of evidence.

If characters in this series sees a danger why would they run away? a good example the commandments trying to run away from the induras. So why would zeldris fear meliodas based of his personality? that doesn't explain why he would be dangerous, he isn't like Kid buu who destroys everything in his path and destroys without a whim. Meliodas may be cold hearted but how does that make someone fear him due to that? being cold hearted doesn't cause danger until you prove it.





Actually your argument was clear to me and you're now going to this strawman argument that i didn't. Meliodas was feared by the sins when he was in his demon form THAT'S due to his bloodlust state, that's why they were scared due to his bloodlust.

Why did you think the one that used "overpowered" (forgot the guys name) were scared SHITLESS when he felt the presence of Galan.


Your argument is crumblimg in many ways and its easy to expose it.
So thats a no on providing a panel in the manga that says the reason Zel feared Mel? I thought as much. Havent read One Piece, not that i'm interested in what other mangas are doing anyway. Since its clear you are just going to continue to spout your headcanon and use random nonsense as evidence to justify it, i'm afraid i'm going to have to dismiss your argument here. Have a nice day,
 

Ger

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So thats a no on providing a panel in the manga that says the reason Zel feared Mel? I thought as much. Havent read One Piece, not that i'm interested in what other mangas are doing anyway. Since its clear you are just going to continue to spout your headcanon and use random nonsense as evidence to justify it, i'm afraid i'm going to have to dismiss your argument here. Have a nice day,
good you retreated from the argument and refuses to address because it points out what fearing is in the first place even using the definition completely debunks it.

This is like mael retreating away from meliodas

but anyways, taking an L isn't bad and all.
 

ubw178

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Mael retreating from Meliodas means nothing. The whole scene wasn't to show the fight between each clan's strongest. It was all about Bellion and why he hates Meliodas.
It starts with him killing weak angels, dreaming to be one of the commandments, then Mael shows up and Bellion is overwhelmed until Meliodas arrived.
Basically the man he looked up to stole his fight, called him irrelevant and pushed back the strong opponent he couldn't even scratch.
The scene shows how Mel damaged Bellion's pride and that's why he hates him. He planned to show him that he was worthy to be one of the commandments yet everything fell apart. It was important for his character development.

I don't understand why everyone starts making theories about who is stronger Mel or Mael and whether it was post noon etc... It's Bellion's flashback and it's all about him.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Zeldris' opinion isn't important either because he's always confident. He never fears anyone even if they are stronger. This is just like when Mel arrived in Camelot and Zeldris attacked him without thinking. He wasn't afraid, he actually looked up to Meliodas back when he was young.
 

Mael the strongest

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Mael retreating from Meliodas means nothing. The whole scene wasn't to show the fight between each clan's strongest. It was all about Bellion and why he hates Meliodas.
It starts with him killing weak angels, dreaming to be one of the commandments, then Mael shows up and Bellion is overwhelmed until Meliodas arrived.
Basically the man he looked up to stole his fight, called him irrelevant and pushed back the strong opponent he couldn't even scratch.
The scene shows how Mel damaged Bellion's pride and that's why he hates him. He planned to show him that he was worthy to be one of the commandments yet everything fell apart. It was important for his character development.

I don't understand why everyone starts making theories about who is stronger Mel or Mael and whether it was post noon etc... It's Bellion's flashback and it's all about him.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Zeldris' opinion isn't important either because he's always confident. He never fears anyone even if they are stronger. This is just like when Mel arrived in Camelot and Zeldris attacked him without thinking. He wasn't afraid, he actually looked up to Meliodas back when he was young.
This is very true
 

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