Discussion NNT Pair Battle Royale

[Seven777]

I was talking about The One frozen inside the Chrono Coffin @Shadowlord123 brought up.
Hmm, Idk, we've never seen her teleporting out of one, it might end up tricky since the Ark itself is made of Light, if she does make it out, I'd assume she doesn't escape without serious burns. This is full power Elizabeth with a power level around that of AM Mel or Ludo and whose main stat is magic, which in turn fuels her Arks and other skills. And since, courtesy of Rou's flashback, we know Ark burns everyone, it just burns demons worse, her Arks should be far more dangerous when directed at non-goddess or non-OP demons.
Admonition also works on the unconscious or immobile, but this would be a skill similar, so we don't know just how alike they'd be. So, fair enough.
Either way, by default Elizabeth and AM Mel have stomping PLs unless the fight starts a couple of minutes before noon, a serious fighting Elizabeth can shield herself with an Ark bubble which even Cruel Sun should be hilariously bumping off of, considering they're applications of the same main element.
There's also the trick about Elizabeth who can apparently both heal and do something else at the same time, so...
Can you think about any skill of Merlin's that would help her against any of the 2 while they're at this level?!

Wasnt Chrono Coffin what Shadowlord was talking about? I assumed Merlin's spell on Mel was the same one she used on herself, i felt like that was implied, or was that just me?

I dont see why ark being made of light would make things tricky, it would still do damage, sure, but there is no reason to suspect ark has any anti-teleportation properties.

As for Merlins skills that would allow her to beat Mel and Eli with their extreme PL's, that would depend, are we limiting Merlin at all? Or does she have unhindered access to her full arsenal? If there is no rules then Teleportation and Perfect Cube.
For Teleportion, Merlin can teleport across the ocean with Escanor, make lunch, start Chrono Coffin 9 and a half minutes before 12, cast it at 12, and then teleport back to kill everyone. Though thats assuming that the spell actually works that way and can stop Escanor's time during the One.
Other than that, Perfect Cube. Sit in Perfect Cube with Escanor until noon, when Escanor is in the One, set up some traps, and if Escanor hasnt killed both Elizabeth and Meliodas by then, she activates her traps.
Also, since neither Elizabeth nor Meliodas have spells like Absolute Cancel or Teleport, she could use either to separate them. For example, trapping Elizabeth in Perfect Cube while her and Escanor destroy Meliodas, or teleporting Meliodas across the ocean while they destroy Elizabeth.
If we're nerfing Merlin, then Infinity Exterminate Ray is the only offensive spell she's shown so far that are on Mel/Eli's PLs. Double Impact would probably work on them too, if Escanor can distract them long enough for it to take effect.

Honestly Merlin might be the most OP character here with this team situation, and with no hard counters to her hax like Chandler.

A round robin type tourney would be more fitting for this type of discussion, seeing as most people would assume, perhaps rightfully, that the Mel/Eli combo would hold the advantage over the other teams.

Diane and Elaine aren't at a level that would allow them to not be dependent on King and Ban, so those two would be handling both offense and defense, so they are slightly handicapped from the jump, with Ban suffering the most. King can somewhat make up for Diane's lack of power through his multiple Chastiefols.

Aside from those two, Escanor and Merlin are probably the weakest pair. Not because they aren't strong, they just have very specific conditions they need to hold the advantage, conditions I don't think they'd reach quick enough against the other pairs (the ones that matter).

King and Eli are the strongest supporters, as King would easily be able to defend himself and Diane through Pollen Garden. From what we've seen from it, he could probably just stalemate all these fights through that. Elizabeth, obviously, has her healing, so neither her nor Mel have to worry about falling early in a fight.

Escanor and Merlin have the least amount of defensive potential. Escanor uses his body to much and Merlin only has teleport, which I don't think would be enough.

All teams have great offense, so no need to worry about that.

Diane has some serious potential though, even though she cant help much in the fight. Set up Pollen Garden on Diane, while she dances up King's PL, then King solos with his remaining 3 Chastiefol's and amped up PL. Boosting a 200k+ PL fighter to a 240k+ PL fighter is a pretty decent jump, maybe even enough to make up for having one less combatant.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

Merlin would have to use Chronal Coffin on the sun itself in order to keep Escanor in the one. His powers don’t work by his internal clock, they work by the position of the sun

 

[HereNThere]

I honestly forgot about Perfect Cube seeing as how it hasn't been so perfect as of late. They could potentially stalemate other teams as well.

 

[Undina]

Wasnt Chrono Coffin what Shadowlord was talking about? I assumed Merlin's spell on Mel was the same one she used on herself, i felt like that was implied, or was that just me?

I dont see why ark being made of light would make things tricky, it would still do damage, sure, but there is no reason to suspect ark has any anti-teleportation properties.

As for Merlins skills that would allow her to beat Mel and Eli with their extreme PL's, that would depend, are we limiting Merlin at all? Or does she have unhindered access to her full arsenal? If there is no rules then Teleportation and Perfect Cube.
For Teleportion, Merlin can teleport across the ocean with Escanor, make lunch, start Chrono Coffin 9 and a half minutes before 12, cast it at 12, and then teleport back to kill everyone. Though thats assuming that the spell actually works that way and can stop Escanor's time during the One.
Other than that, Perfect Cube. Sit in Perfect Cube with Escanor until noon, when Escanor is in the One, set up some traps, and if Escanor hasnt killed both Elizabeth and Meliodas by then, she activates her traps.
Also, since neither Elizabeth nor Meliodas have spells like Absolute Cancel or Teleport, she could use either to separate them. For example, trapping Elizabeth in Perfect Cube while her and Escanor destroy Meliodas, or teleporting Meliodas across the ocean while they destroy Elizabeth.
If we're nerfing Merlin, then Infinity Exterminate Ray is the only offensive spell she's shown so far that are on Mel/Eli's PLs. Double Impact would probably work on them too, if Escanor can distract them long enough for it to take effect.

Honestly Merlin might be the most OP character here with this team situation, and with no hard counters to her hax like Chandler.

Diane has some serious potential though, even though she cant help much in the fight. Set up Pollen Garden on Diane, while she dances up King's PL, then King solos with his remaining 3 Chastiefol's and amped up PL. Boosting a 200k+ PL fighter to a 240k+ PL fighter is a pretty decent jump, maybe even enough to make up for having one less combatant.

Chrono Coffin seems similar to the spell she used on herself, but from what was said and shown in chapters 299-300, isn't it. To be precise, the insinuation that DK Meliodas avoided being Chrono Coffined by simply emerging faster from the cocoon implies he would've been immobilised in there if not for his greater speed/the greater speed of the assimilation VS the casting of the spell. Moreover, the name of the spell implies it's meant to immobilise the target. It freezes even birds in flight who don't succumb to gravity afterwards, they stay in the frozen air.
So, freezing The One, if she got the 10 minutes to cast it, would work against them, not to mention there's the possibility that the nature of the peaking Grace could help The One burn through the spell(although, that's Sunshine VS Infinity and Infinity's rep with the PGs makes the conflict unlikely).

In theory, teleportation works by sending the information courtesy of which your being exists across particles of light in another place to recreate it while your original form dissolves or something.(Not sure if I remember well). However, in our story, Light by default dissolves/burns away matter and the information would eventually be reduced to the soul staying behind and going to the afterlife. I imagine Ark would interfere with a clear manifestation of teleportation since it takes a head-start on burning away the matter that has to be reproduced at the arrival point.

There are limits to Merlin's skills and hax, we've seen how she was drained of energy after casting the big shot spells, and she can cast them as long as her target doesn't tend to move around about as much as she does(prime Elizabeth flies, in opposition to Merlin's teleportation, Mel loves to skip around with his high speed that goes close to matching Merlin's teleportation).

Infinity exterminate ray may or may not work on Mel and Ellie(if she catches them with it and if it makes it through Ellie's shield Ark at the necessary intensity), but as eefrit put it very well, Elizabeth's an Ace in healing, Mel has monster regen and resistance. The context where she used it doesn't help establish its efficiency since there were more players involved.

And since you're wondering about the limits to Merlin's skills, shouldn't we play fair and wonder where's the limit to Elizabeth's dispel ones?! Cause that's the funniest bit, Elizabeth seems to also be a huge debuffer, you have Indura, she has Hikari Are, you have 300 years worth of miasma, she has Tranquilize, you have a Hellblaze mamoth of a dog, she has the Ordeals of Jonah(which I imagine should work on IER), and we could go on.

Pretty much the same about Double Impact, as long as Elizabeth pulls the level of Invigorate or whatever she did to herself when she was walking through Melascula's Venom, while in a human body. I repeat, Elizabeth can also heal while using other skills so, it doesn't very much help.

Merlin's Absolute Cancel was rendered irrelevant when they had to deal with AM Mel in canon, there's no point in bringing it up.

Also, teleporting too far away should render the fight null and void, there has to be a limit to the fighting ground.

Locking Elizabeth in PC shouldn't stop her from healing Mel and herself while he broke her away and if AM Mel goes serious from the get go Dayscanor still can't do more than tickle him, along with Merlin's skills, provided, again, that Elizabeth is limited to only healing him.

I honestly forgot about Perfect Cube seeing as how it hasn't been so perfect as of late. They could potentially stalemate other teams as well.

So, if Merlin and Escanor decide to stall inside it, what's to stop AM Mel from going seriously at it and physically breaking it relatively fast? I have it understood from weeks and weeks of arguments over it that if Mel attacked it directly, he can break it.

 

[T25]

[

Wasnt Chrono Coffin what Shadowlord was talking about? I assumed Merlin's spell on Mel was the same one she used on herself, i felt like that was implied, or was that just me?

I dont see why ark being made of light would make things tricky, it would still do damage, sure, but there is no reason to suspect ark has any anti-teleportation properties.

As for Merlins skills that would allow her to beat Mel and Eli with their extreme PL's, that would depend, are we limiting Merlin at all? Or does she have unhindered access to her full arsenal? If there is no rules then Teleportation and Perfect Cube.
For Teleportion, Merlin can teleport across the ocean with Escanor, make lunch, start Chrono Coffin 9 and a half minutes before 12, cast it at 12, and then teleport back to kill everyone. Though thats assuming that the spell actually works that way and can stop Escanor's time during the One.
Other than that, Perfect Cube. Sit in Perfect Cube with Escanor until noon, when Escanor is in the One, set up some traps, and if Escanor hasnt killed both Elizabeth and Meliodas by then, she activates her traps.
Also, since neither Elizabeth nor Meliodas have spells like Absolute Cancel or Teleport, she could use either to separate them. For example, trapping Elizabeth in Perfect Cube while her and Escanor destroy Meliodas, or teleporting Meliodas across the ocean while they destroy Elizabeth.
If we're nerfing Merlin, then Infinity Exterminate Ray is the only offensive spell she's shown so far that are on Mel/Eli's PLs. Double Impact would probably work on them too, if Escanor can distract them long enough for it to take effect.

Honestly Merlin might be the most OP character here with this team situation, and with no hard counters to her hax like Chandler.

Diane has some serious potential though, even though she cant help much in the fight. Set up Pollen Garden on Diane, while she dances up King's PL, then King solos with his remaining 3 Chastiefol's and amped up PL. Boosting a 200k+ PL fighter to a 240k+ PL fighter is a pretty decent jump, maybe even enough to make up for having one less combatant.

Thats assuming they are incapable of defeating “the one.”

 

[Undina]

Merlin would have to use Chronal Coffin on the sun itself in order to keep Escanor in the one. His powers don’t work by his internal clock, they work by the position of the sun

I think we went a bit too Medieval on this one, she should CC the Earth, since it rotates and allows phenomenons(?) such as noon to happen. But even if she had that monstrous level of Power to fuel such a spell, and the time to cast it, it would also freeze pretty much everything close enough to it, just like herself and Escanor.

 

[MrSchmitty7]

I think we went a bit too Medieval on this one, she should CC the Earth, since it rotates and allows phenomenons(?) such as noon to happen. But even if she had that monstrous level of Power to fuel such a spell, and the time to cast it, it would also freeze pretty much everything close enough to it, just like herself and Escanor.

Yeah it just creates a whole bunch of other physical issues with trying to even do something like that. And if she could do it she’d have to have some spell that would free them from the coffin’s freezing powers

 

[Seven777]

Thats assuming they are incapable of defeating “the one.”

Yes, it is.

Chrono Coffin seems similar to the spell she used on herself, but from what was said and shown in chapters 299-300, isn't it. To be precise, the insinuation that DK Meliodas avoided being Chrono Coffined by simply emerging faster from the cocoon implies he would've been immobilised in there if not for his greater speed/the greater speed of the assimilation VS the casting of the spell. Moreover, the name of the spell implies it's meant to immobilise the target. It freezes even birds in flight who don't succumb to gravity afterwards, they stay in the frozen air.
So, freezing The One, if she got the 10 minutes to cast it, would work against them, not to mention there's the possibility that the nature of the peaking Grace could help The One burn through the spell(although, that's Sunshine VS Infinity and Infinity's rep with the PGs makes the conflict unlikely).

In theory, teleportation works by sending the information courtesy of which your being exists across particles of light in another place to recreate it while your original form dissolves or something.(Not sure if I remember well). However, in our story, Light by default dissolves/burns away matter and the information would eventually be reduced to the soul staying behind and going to the afterlife. I imagine Ark would interfere with a clear manifestation of teleportation since it takes a head-start on burning away the matter that has to be reproduced at the arrival point.

There are limits to Merlin's skills and hax, we've seen how she was drained of energy after casting the big shot spells, and she can cast them as long as her target doesn't tend to move around about as much as she does(prime Elizabeth flies, in opposition to Merlin's teleportation, Mel loves to skip around with his high speed that goes close to matching Merlin's teleportation).

Infinity exterminate ray may or may not work on Mel and Ellie(if she catches them with it and if it makes it through Ellie's shield Ark at the necessary intensity), but as eefrit put it very well, Elizabeth's an Ace in healing, Mel has monster regen and resistance. The context where she used it doesn't help establish its efficiency since there were more players involved.

And since you're wondering about the limits to Merlin's skills, shouldn't we play fair and wonder where's the limit to Elizabeth's dispel ones?! Cause that's the funniest bit, Elizabeth seems to also be a huge debuffer, you have Indura, she has Hikari Are, you have 300 years worth of miasma, she has Tranquilize, you have a Hellblaze mamoth of a dog, she has the Ordeals of Jonah(which I imagine should work on IER), and we could go on.

Pretty much the same about Double Impact, as long as Elizabeth pulls the level of Invigorate or whatever she did to herself when she was walking through Melascula's Venom, while in a human body. I repeat, Elizabeth can also heal while using other skills so, it doesn't very much help.

Merlin's Absolute Cancel was rendered irrelevant when they had to deal with AM Mel in canon, there's no point in bringing it up.

Also, teleporting too far away should render the fight null and void, there has to be a limit to the fighting ground.

Locking Elizabeth in PC shouldn't stop her from healing Mel and herself while he broke her away and if AM Mel goes serious from the get go Dayscanor still can't do more than tickle him, along with Merlin's skills, provided, again, that Elizabeth is limited to only healing him.


So, if Merlin and Escanor decide to stall inside it, what's to stop AM Mel from going seriously at it and physically breaking it relatively fast? I have it understood from weeks and weeks of arguments over it that if Mel attacked it directly, he can break it.

What i assumed was that Merlin planned to stop Meliodas' time during his absorption process of the commandments, meaning his body would never be able to complete their absorption and would stay forever in its then-current, dormant state. Not that Merlin planned to do a more conventional stop spell and just freeze Meliodas, final fantasy style. I could be wrong, but thats what i got from the chapter.

I havent seen teleportation's process explained this way, not in this manga. If it were the case then a solid steel box would prevent teleportation just as well as ark, since there'd be no "light particles" to travel through, and i doubt something so simple could contain Merlin.

I'm not sure what you mean by play fair, Elizabeth should have unhindered access to her abilities too, dispel abilities can be used if you like. Elizabeth might be able to cure Double Impact, i'm not sure, i'm fine with assuming that she can, since i'm assuming a fair bit with my Chrono Coffin scenario. But Elizabeth even thinking to do this would require Merlin willingly explaining the effects of her spell, and even then attempting to reverse it may kill her, as it almost did Chandler.

Like I said, it depends how much you want to limit Merlin. If Merlin isnt allowed to teleport then she'd have to trap herself, or her enemies in Perfect Cube to use the strategies I suggested. Locking Eli in Perfect Cube wouldnt stop Eli from healing herself, but it should stop her from healing Meliodas. Just because her magic is healing, doesnt mean it should just pass through the cube, especially considering how Elizabeth couldnt heal Escanor during his fight with Meliodas.

 

[Undina]

Yes, it is.


What i assumed was that Merlin planned to stop Meliodas' time during his absorption process of the commandments, meaning his body would never be able to complete their absorption and would stay forever in its then-current, dormant state. Not that Merlin planned to do a more conventional stop spell and just freeze Meliodas, final fantasy style. I could be wrong, but thats what i got from the chapter.

I havent seen teleportation's process explained this way, not in this manga. If it were the case then a solid steel box would prevent teleportation just as well as ark, since there'd be no "light particles" to travel through, and i doubt something so simple could contain Merlin.

I'm not sure what you mean by play fair, Elizabeth should have unhindered access to her abilities too, dispel abilities can be used if you like. Elizabeth might be able to cure Double Impact, i'm not sure, i'm fine with assuming that she can, since i'm assuming a fair bit with my Chrono Coffin scenario. But Elizabeth even thinking to do this would require Merlin willingly explaining the effects of her spell, and even then attempting to reverse it may kill her, as it almost did Chandler.

Like I said, it depends how much you want to limit Merlin. If Merlin isnt allowed to teleport then she'd have to trap herself, or her enemies in Perfect Cube to use the strategies I suggested. Locking Eli in Perfect Cube wouldnt stop Eli from healing herself, but it should stop her from healing Meliodas. Just because her magic is healing, doesnt mean it should just pass through the cube, especially considering how Elizabeth couldnt heal Escanor during his fight with Meliodas.

Yet you don't need to assume what she was trying to do as we get some more information from the context: Hawk's observations of the rubble and bird flying near the cocoon frozen still in mid-air, the editorial comment(although I know that it often doesn't have much to do with the chapter content, yet here it seems to match, as, once Merlin finished the incantation, they were able to openly watch the cocoon and notice if anything even blitz exited it, so, it seems that DK Meliodas left it even before the spell was completely cast); I understood the spell as creating a dimensional bubble around Mel that froze time, Mel's own, and that it enclosed a safety area around him, theory supported by the area the rock and bird were in having been touched by the spell too.

You say you doubt it, but the point of it is that we haven't seen Merlin having to teleport out of a sealed off chamber or box with no access to light, and the explanation I leaned on is the most common encountered, so far supported by experiments in development and the process applied, IIRC, in very famous pieces of fiction like the Star Trek franchise, for example. As long as it doesn't get specifically explained otherwise than so, there's no reason to believe Merlin's teleportation doesn't happen like that. Either way, if she were to be caught inside Ark and still escape, she wouldn't do so unwounded. Also, remember, she and Escanor have no means of self healing or healing each-other. You'll also have to remind me where did Elizabeth try to heal Escanor through PC. Nevermind, I checked it myself, at no point did she try to heal anyone through PC, she only once asked for PC to be removed so she could try and interfere and appease the buffoons, by getting close to Mel, I assume. And we've seen other rather abstract skills transcending the walls of PC, like Ban's Physical Hunt. Since that was Nakaba's favourite scene in SnS and he drew it, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say he approves of the twist. I don't see why Elizabeth's healing needs no physical impediments to happen. At least once it was applied even without the activation of visible light in her hands during casting. And it's one of the very few skills in the entire series which most often happens without even being named. How much more abstract than that can it go?!

Elizabeth doesn't necessarily need to be explained Double Impact to, she will feel the effects, then react by starting to work on self defense. Also, IIRC, part 2 of DI requires at least 1 elemental vulnerability. Now, tell me, which elements is the daughter of the SD vulnerable to? Cause at best, she'd be vulnerable to PoD, yet it's only her partner who uses it and I'm hard pressed to learn how would Merlin fake that one and imbue it into her traps, also, I'm curious to learn why would trying to inverse anything would kill Elizabeth?! What would she need to inverse of DI?! As far as we know, you're simply presuming Goddess Elizabeth has elemental vulnerabilities.Also, Merlin can only use the 4 elements, now that I think better of it. Light and Darkness are canonically out of her scope, so far.

I didn't say Merlin isn't allowed to teleport, I said it's beyond reasonable tournament logic to allow her to do that to whatever huge distance she wants to; it's to be expected they would have a defined fight "arena", a limited one.

 

[HereNThere]

Diane has some serious potential though, even though she cant help much in the fight. Set up Pollen Garden on Diane, while she dances up King's PL, then King solos with his remaining 3 Chastiefol's and amped up PL. Boosting a 200k+ PL fighter to a 240k+ PL fighter is a pretty decent jump, maybe even enough to make up for having one less combatant.

I don't think Diane can dance that high, otherwise they shouldn't have had issues with Estarossa when he absorbed the Commandments.

I have it understood from weeks and weeks of arguments over it that if Mel attacked it directly, he can break it.

I've never argued that and don't believe he could. Merlin was rather confident that Perfect Cube would've kept him in check if he woke up in Assault Mode.

 

[Undina]

I don't think Diane can dance that high, otherwise they shouldn't have had issues with Estarossa when he absorbed the Commandments.



I've never argued that and don't believe he could. Merlin was rather confident that Perfect Cube would've kept him in check if he woke up in Assault Mode.

If he couldn't, they may have just as well locked him up all alone in the PC and left him there to bang himself on the walls till he exhausted himself and passed out, it's not like Escanor defeating him at the cost of plenty of his health fixed any of his emotional problems and it was pretty clear Merlin had already figured as much even before the fight; are you telling me she was purposefully wasteful with their meagre resources?!

 

[Seven777]

I don't think Diane can dance that high, otherwise they shouldn't have had issues with Estarossa when he absorbed the Commandments.



I've never argued that and don't believe he could. Merlin was rather confident that Perfect Cube would've kept him in check if he woke up in Assault Mode.

What do you mean? 3C Estarossa? She didnt really get a chance to boost anyone, but her dance did a pretty good job during her, King and Gowther's trio attack against 4C Mael.

Yet you don't need to assume what she was trying to do as we get some more information from the context: Hawk's observations of the rubble and bird flying near the cocoon frozen still in mid-air, the editorial comment(although I know that it often doesn't have much to do with the chapter content, yet here it seems to match, as, once Merlin finished the incantation, they were able to openly watch the cocoon and notice if anything even blitz exited it, so, it seems that DK Meliodas left it even before the spell was completely cast); I understood the spell as creating a dimensional bubble around Mel that froze time, Mel's own, and that it enclosed a safety area around him, theory supported by the area the rock and bird were in having been touched by the spell too.

You say you doubt it, but the point of it is that we haven't seen Merlin having to teleport out of a sealed off chamber or box with no access to light, and the explanation I leaned on is the most common encountered, so far supported by experiments in development and the process applied, IIRC, in very famous pieces of fiction like the Star Trek franchise, for example. As long as it doesn't get specifically explained otherwise than so, there's no reason to believe Merlin's teleportation doesn't happen like that. Either way, if she were to be caught inside Ark and still escape, she wouldn't do so unwounded. Also, remember, she and Escanor have no means of self healing or healing each-other. You'll also have to remind me where did Elizabeth try to heal Escanor through PC. Nevermind, I checked it myself, at no point did she try to heal anyone through PC, she only once asked for PC to be removed so she could try and interfere and appease the buffoons, by getting close to Mel, I assume. And we've seen other rather abstract skills transcending the walls of PC, like Ban's Physical Hunt. Since that was Nakaba's favourite scene in SnS and he drew it, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say he approves of the twist. I don't see why Elizabeth's healing needs no physical impediments to happen. At least once it was applied even without the activation of visible light in her hands during casting. And it's one of the very few skills in the entire series which most often happens without even being named. How much more abstract than that can it go?!

Elizabeth doesn't necessarily need to be explained Double Impact to, she will feel the effects, then react by starting to work on self defense. Also, IIRC, part 2 of DI requires at least 1 elemental vulnerability. Now, tell me, which elements is the daughter of the SD vulnerable to? Cause at best, she'd be vulnerable to PoD, yet it's only her partner who uses it and I'm hard pressed to learn how would Merlin fake that one and imbue it into her traps, also, I'm curious to learn why would trying to inverse anything would kill Elizabeth?! What would she need to inverse of DI?! As far as we know, you're simply presuming Goddess Elizabeth has elemental vulnerabilities.Also, Merlin can only use the 4 elements, now that I think better of it. Light and Darkness are canonically out of her scope, so far.

I didn't say Merlin isn't allowed to teleport, I said it's beyond reasonable tournament logic to allow her to do that to whatever huge distance she wants to; it's to be expected they would have a determined fight "arena", a limited one.

Good point, didnt notice the bird or the rocks. Merlin would have to use the spell she used on herself then, if its even applicable.

We've also never seen her teleportation reliant on light. As for your explanation being the most common encountered, I dont think so, Star Trek is a famous example, but it doesnt mean its the default method for any teleportation outside its own universe. If teleportation has no given explanation, it doesn't just automatically get the method of another piece of media attributed to it. Besides, we don't know how ark interacts with natural light or that teleportation wouldnt just move through ark unhindered, just like regular light, completely ignoring its damaging properties. For all we know and from what we've seen Merlin is completely intangible. So yeah, Merlin would still be damaged by her initial contact with the ark, i can accept that, but imo Merlin would definitely be able to teleport out.

If Elizabeth thought she could heal Escanor through Perfect Cube, dont you think she would've attempted it when Escanor got stabbed in the gut? And funnily enough it was after Escanor got stabbed that she requested Perfect Cube be taken down. Physical Hunt did in the anime, but we dont know if that applies to healing too, Though even if it did, it wouldnt change anything, other than the order in which Merlin would decide to defeat the two. Merlin is well aware of Elizabeth's healing, she would slay her first while Meliodas is trapped in Perfect Cube. Though tbh she could probably keep the order and kill Mel first, she'd just have to block Eli's vision of the battle while she's trapped in Perfect Cube, casting Icicle Castle on top of the cube would prob do the trick.

Chandler didnt feel the effects of Double Impact and react, I dont see any reason Elizabeth would be able to.
No, part 2 doesnt require a weakness, Chandler and Cusack have no weaknesses. Double Impact merely took whatever element they were least resistant to, and continuously amplified it. So even if Elizabeth was as resilient as Chandler and Cusack, which I highly doubt given how much emphasis the toughness of their bodies received when compared to Elizabeth, in the end the spell would still work on her like it did them. Elizabeth would have to be completely immune to all of Merlin's elements, lightning, wind, fire, ice, water, etc, for Double Impact not to work, otherwise whatever she is least resistant to gets amplified.
What do you mean why would trying to reverse Double Impact kill Elizabeth? Didnt you see what happened to Chandler when he tried to cure it? Any action on Elizabeth's part will cause her to be attacked by Merlin's magic.

Sure, in a tournament scenario you could limit Merlin to a certain area, but thats why i asked what the rules were in my initial comment.

 

[Undina]

What do you mean? 3C Estarossa? She didnt really get a chance to boost anyone, but her dance did a pretty good job during her, King and Gowther's trio attack against 4C Mael.


Good point, didnt notice the bird or the rocks. Merlin would have to use the spell she used on herself then, if its even applicable.

We've also never seen her teleportation reliant on light. As for your explanation being the most common encountered, I dont think so, Star Trek is a famous example, but it doesnt mean its the default method for any teleportation outside its own universe. If teleportation has no given explanation, it doesn't just automatically get the method of another piece of media attributed to it. Besides, we don't know how ark interacts with natural light or that teleportation wouldnt just move through ark unhindered, just like regular light, completely ignoring its damaging properties. For all we know and from what we've seen Merlin is completely intangible. So yeah, Merlin would still be damaged by her initial contact with the ark, i can accept that, but imo Merlin would definitely be able to teleport out.

If Elizabeth thought she could heal Escanor through Perfect Cube, dont you think she would've attempted it when Escanor got stabbed in the gut? And funnily enough it was after Escanor got stabbed that she requested Perfect Cube be taken down. Physical Hunt did in the anime, but we dont know if that applies to healing too, Though even if it did, it wouldnt change anything, other than the order in which Merlin would decide to defeat the two. Merlin is well aware of Elizabeth's healing, she would slay her first while Meliodas is trapped in Perfect Cube. Though tbh she could probably keep the order and kill Mel first, she'd just have to block Eli's vision of the battle while she's trapped in Perfect Cube, casting Icicle Castle on top of the cube would prob do the trick.

Chandler didnt feel the effects of Double Impact and react, I dont see any reason Elizabeth would be able to.
No, part 2 doesnt require a weakness, Chandler and Cusack have no weaknesses. Double Impact merely took whatever element they were least resistant to, and continuously amplified it. So even if Elizabeth was as resilient as Chandler and Cusack, which I highly doubt given how much emphasis the toughness of their bodies received when compared to Elizabeth, in the end the spell would still work on her like it did them. Elizabeth would have to be completely immune to all of Merlin's elements, lightning, wind, fire, ice, water, etc, for Double Impact not to work, otherwise whatever she is least resistant to gets amplified.
What do you mean why would trying to reverse Double Impact kill Elizabeth? Didnt you see what happened to Chandler when he tried to cure it? Any action on Elizabeth's part will cause her to be attacked by Merlin's magic.

Sure, in a tournament scenario you could limit Merlin to a certain area, but thats why i asked what the rules were in my initial comment.

Why would Elizabeth try to heal one without trying to heal the other?! While he was acting horribly, Meliodas was still her lover, and she was equally worried for both idiots. She asked for PC to be taken down so she could do "something" about the conflict, its escalation worried her, there would be no point in simply healing them while they still fighted, since it would squander her MP and only safeguard the resources they'd use to hurt each-other some more. That example simply doesn't do it since there was no point in her trying to heal during that fight, she wanted to stop them first.

Given the characters' surprise at Chandler's simply pushing his hand through the wall of the PC containing Mel and Ellie, the dude didn't use any spell to do so, Galand spoke about smashing the PCs defending Arthur, Ellie and Hawk but that it would take some time, the DK Meliodas just showed us that some tentacle flailing doesn't just smash the PC, but it's good enough to also put damage on the people formerly inside it. All this goes to show that characters with serious Str stats can overcome what Infinity does for Merlin's PC and destroy it if they directly pick on it. The bigger the stats imbued into the effort, the easier the feat.

Merlin does take damage, if caught by a serious attack, that's why Meliodaf brought up how easily Escanor would be wasted since the reason she didn't really take damage during the recent manga fight was that he or others were either tanking the attacks directed at her or defending her otherwise, she rarely used anything to defend herself, with such big hitters, she didn't even waste energy on PC, she only re-employed it when she got desperate at the DK as enemy reveal. I repeat, her opponents are both over 100k each in PL from the start and Elizabeth has most of it in Magic, the resource that goes into her attacks(Ark and others) and since Sariel claims that her Ark(while nerfed) should put a dent even into Demon Royalty, which Merlin acknowledges as very dangerous to herself(she was sure that by not keeping Dayscanor and a PC between AM Mel alone and the rest of the group, they'd all die), it means that Elizabeth in her goddess form is equally dangerous in attacks. And the tournament Elizabeth is one willing to fight, just like you claim Merlin is willing to "kill" either her (former) crush or her nee-nee.

Merlin has teleportation, but that can't help her forever, at some point she's gonna have to stop and cast some spells,at which point either Ellie or Mel will catch her; it's not certain if Cruel Sun can overcome a shielding Ark pre-noon, or that it will interact negatively with it at all, Mel can tank even more damage than usual with healing backing from Ellie, so he can focus on attacking whichever he chooses: Merlin, Escanor(2x if we take into account his bad habit of shielding Merlin with his own body), or any PC lifted as impediment.

Part 1 of DI is designed to gauge the targets' "elemental vulnerabilities"(yes, those are the weaknesses Merlin promised to find in them), Chandler and Cusack are vulnerable to wind and thunder(though I don't recall who gets which vulnerability); part 2 means to trigger preset 4 elements' traps that bank on the discovered elemental vulnerabilities and gradually lower the resistances to those elements more and more. Again, I ask, which of the 4 elements is goddess Elizabeth vulnerable to? Keeping in mind that she's genetically connected to a "generator" of 4 elements buffs.

 

[T25]

Didnt you see what happened to Chandler when he tried to cure it? Any action on Elizabeth's part will cause her to be attacked by Merlin's magic.

That isn’t apart of double impact

Why would Merlin use double impact in the first place? It was used specifically to bypass the toughness of chandler and cusacks bodies. Eli’s body is presumably not as tough. Her guard would, also presumably, be magical. What effect would double impact have on a magic guard?

 

[Seven777]

That isn’t apart of double impact

I didnt say it was.

Why would Elizabeth try to heal one without trying to heal the other?! While he was acting horribly, Meliodas was still her lover, and she was equally worried for both idiots. She asked for PC to be taken down so she could do "something" about the conflict, its escalation worried her, there would be no point in simply healing them while they still fighted, since it would squander her MP and only safeguard the resources they'd use to hurt each-other some more. That example simply doesn't do it since there was no point in her trying to heal during that fight, she wanted to stop them first.

Given the characters' surprise at Chandler's simply pushing his hand through the wall of the PC containing Mel and Ellie, the dude didn't use any spell to do so, Galand spoke about smashing the PCs defending Arthur, Ellie and Hawk but that it would take some time, the DK Meliodas just showed us that some tentacle flailing doesn't just smash the PC, but it's good enough to also put damage on the people formerly inside it. All this goes to show that characters with serious Str stats can overcome what Infinity does for Merlin's PC and destroy it if they directly pick on it. The bigger the stats imbued into the effort, the easier the feat.

Merlin does take damage, if caught by a serious attack, that's why Meliodaf brought up how easily Escanor would be wasted since the reason she didn't really take damage during the recent manga fight was that he or others were either tanking the attacks directed at her or defending her otherwise, she rarely used anything to defend herself, with such big hitters, she didn't even waste energy on PC, she only re-employed it when she got desperate at the DK as enemy reveal. I repeat, her opponents are both over 100k each in PL from the start and Elizabeth has most of it in Magic, the resource that goes into her attacks(Ark and others) and since Sariel claims that her Ark(while nerfed) should put a dent even into Demon Royalty, which Merlin acknowledges as very dangerous to herself(she was sure that by not keeping Dayscanor and a PC between AM Mel alone and the rest of the group, they'd all die, it means that Elizabeth in her goddess form is equally dangerous in attacks. And the tournament Elizabeth is one willing to fight, just like you claim Merlin is willing to "kill" either her (former) crush or her nee-nee.

Merlin has teleportation, but that can't help her forever, at some point she's gonna have to stop and cast some spells,at which point either Ellie or Mel will catch her; it's not certain if Cruel Sun can overcome a shielding Ark pre-noon, or that it will interact negatively with it at all, Mel can tank even more damage than usual with healing backing from Ellie, so he can focus on attacking whichever he chooses: Merlin, Escanor(2x if we take into account his bad habit of shielding Merlin with his own body), or any PC lifted as impediment.

Part 1 of DI is designed to gauge the targets' "elemental vulnerabilities"(yes, those are the weaknesses Merlin promised to find in them), Chandler and Cusack are vulnerable to wind and thunder(though I don't recall who gets which vulnerability); part 2 means to trigger preset 4 elements' traps that bank on the discovered elemental vulnerbilities and gradually lower the resistances to those elements more an more. Again, I ask, which of the 4 elements is goddess Elizabeth vulnerable to? Keeping in mind that she's genetically connected to a "generator" of 4 elements buffs.

Because Escanor was injured, Meliodas wasnt. Plus Escanor good, Meliodas bad.

Chandler didnt push his hand through Perfect Cube, he just placed it and his face on its wall. The DK smashing it doesnt mean lesser characters can, and even if they could it would take time, and Merlin can set up multiple,

Sure, Merlin takes damage, she was resilient enough to tank a hit from the Sinner though, so she should be fine for a few attacks. From what we've seen Eli isnt any more durable outside an ark barrier either. As for the danger of Elizabeth's powerful attacks, Merlin's Infinity Exterminate Ray should be up to par. Besides, camping out until high noon would deal with her as well as Meliodas, as long as Merlin separates them with Perfect Cube. With either teleportation or Perfect Cube on Merlin's side, her and Escanor should clean up without much trouble, because it stops being a 2 on 2 fight and becomes 2 consecutive 2 on 1 fights, which The One should be able to win with time to spare. Plus Merlin's traps as a back up plan.

As I said, it doesnt matter which of the 4 elements Elizabeth is weakest to, unless she is completely immune to all 4 elements and all their combinations the spell will affect her. As far as we've seen Elizabeth has no such immunity, which means her resistance can be lowered. Chances are she doesnt have anywhere close to the level of resistance as Chandler and Cusack anyway, given how tough their bodies were portrayed.

 

[Undina]

Because Escanor was injured, Meliodas wasnt. Plus Escanor good, Meliodas bad.

That is your perspective of the characters, not Elizabeth's. Elizabeth's perspective matters here in making that decision or another. In that battle Meliodas was her lover deranged from the DK's and Melascula's antics. Escanor was a friend acting like a douche high on Sunshine.

Chandler didnt push his hand through Perfect Cube, he just placed it and his face on its wall. The DK smashing it doesnt mean lesser characters can, and even if they could it would take time, and Merlin can set up multiple,

You still don't know how much or how little time it would take to burst the PCs, and we're yet to see how much of a lesser demon would directing a Kami Chigiri at the PC makes AM Meliodas. Containing Mel and Ellie separately shouldn't help her win, at the very least the OP insinuated at least 1 opponent has to be knocked down. Containing goddess Elizabeth with Dayscanor would be troublesome as well for him, since we don't know if, prior to his The One form, his body isn't just as vulnerable to Ark, or more so, since it gets strained by Sunshine from within as well, as it is to Mel and his antics. We still know that Dayscanor damages himself just as he gets damaged.
Also, I'm waiting for you to prove how Cruel Sun or Escanor's strength alone > goddess Elizabeth with Ark shield on and internal self-healing on, while AM Mel deals with his PC and hers. I still think he can tank Merlin's tickles with a PoD shield while pulling a KG on the PC(s).
And Merlin still hasn't displayed any skill that helps her deal with increased PoD or Ark defending her opponents.

Sure, Merlin takes damage, she was resilient enough to tank a hit from the Sinner though, so she should be fine for a few attacks. From what we've seen Eli isnt any more durable outside an ark barrier either. As for the danger of Elizabeth's powerful attacks, Merlin's Infinity Exterminate Ray should be up to par. Besides, camping out until high noon would deal with her as well as Meliodas, as long as Merlin separates them with Perfect Cube. With either teleportation or Perfect Cube on Merlin's side, her and Escanor should clean up without much trouble, because it stops being a 2 on 2 fight and becomes 2 consecutive 2 on 1 fights, which The One should be able to win with time to spare. Plus Merlin's traps as a back up plan.

Elizabeth isn't durable to direct physical hits outside an Ark barrier and while in stand by, in a tournament it's decided she fights and takes her opponents seriously. And her MP resources are supposed to be plenty higher than Merlin's.
And since it's not decided that Elizabeth can't heal through the walls of PC...

As I said, it doesnt matter which of the 4 elements Elizabeth is weakest to, unless she is completely immune to all 4 elements and all their combinations the spell will affect her. As far as we've seen Elizabeth has no such immunity, which means her resistance can be lowered. Chances are she doesnt have anywhere close to the level of resistance as Chandler and Cusack anyway, given how tough their bodies were portrayed.

As I said, there's nothing in the given canon making goddess Elizabeth vulnerable to any of the 4 elements, instead, her genetic link to the SD makes her more likely to be invulnerable to all of them than the opposite. When did we see goddess Elizabeth attacked with any of the 4 elements?! We've seen her nerfed human form dealing with a Hellblaze hound(which should mimic Fire at least) and she OoJ-ed the snot out of it. DI is pretty much out of question with Elizabeth.

The only tricks left to Merlin are PC and Teleportation, which makes her stall, but we don't know how long can she do that; we don't know how slow or fast can PC be overcome by a Kami Chigiri, or a barrage of multiples, we do know Mel and Ellie have to avoid The One happening or getting an attack on them and then they don't even need to attack him anymore, he drops, especially if he has to fight both together or back to back. Merlin has no physical attacks that should help her against Elizabeth who is weak against OP ones when open(without an Ark shield). Dayscanor is actually as vulnerable(or even more so, due to Sunshine damaging him from within the more he uses it, so a PA on him is also a bad move) to having to fight Mel and Ellie as Ellie was in soloing 2 Indura together.

 

[Seraph]

Ban and Elaine vs True Fairy King Harlequin and Diane is a clear win for the latter pair.

Meliodas and Elizabeth vs Escanor and Merlin is a tough battle but ultimately it'll be in the latter pair's favor as well.

Finals between Escanor and Merlin vs Diane and King,tough battle but i believe it'll go in Diane and King's favor. First and foremost because i have yet to see a Number on current King's name,Escanor's reaction to his attack against the Sinner said it all for me though...

 

[Undina]

Meliodas and Elizabeth vs Escanor and Merlin is a tough battle but ultimately it'll be in the latter pair's favor as well.

How?!

 

[Seraph]

How?!

Elizabeth's Powers aren't exactly useful for a Battle against People that harbor no hatred or Evil inside them,her best feats from my PoV. are her healing feats and saving Diane,Derriere and Monspeet from their respective Troubles. She can use Ark but i doubt an Ark of Elizabeth takes down Escanor nor Merlin given the Perfect Cube. Other than Demon King Meliodas nobody has broken that one yet,and i doubt she can. Merlin has multiple spells up her sleeve so while in the Perfect Cube she could cast a Chrono Coffin onto Elizabeth freezing her movements and by extension make her unable to battle.

Escanor defeated Meliodas on Panel. If Merlin pulls the scenario i just mentioned she can aid Escanor in his Clash and it'll be over.

 

[Seven777]

That is your perspective of the characters, not Elizabeth's. Elizabeth's perspective matters here in making that decision or another. In that battle Meliodas was her lover deranged from the DK's and Melascula's antics. Escanor was a friend acting like a douche high on Sunshine.

You still don't know how much or how little time it would take to burst the PCs, and we're yet to see how much of a lesser demon would directing a Kami Chigiri at the PC makes AM Meliodas. Containing Mel and Ellie separately shouldn't help her win, at the very least the OP insinuated at least 1 opponent has to be knocked down. Containing goddess Elizabeth with Dayscanor would be troublesome as well for him, since we don't know if, prior to his The One form, his body isn't just as vulnerable to Ark, or more so, since it gets strained by Sunshine from within as well, as it is to Mel and his antics. We still know that Dayscanor damages himself just as he gets damaged.
Also, I'm waiting for you to prove how Cruel Sun or Escanor's strength alone > goddess Elizabeth with Ark shield on and internal self-healing on, while AM Mel deals with his PC and hers. I still think he can tank Merlin's tickles with a PoD shield while pulling a KG on the PC(s).
And Merlin still hasn't displayed any skill that helps her deal with increased PoD or Ark defending her opponents.

Elizabeth isn't durable to direct physical hits outside an Ark barrier and while in stand by, in a tournament it's decided she fights and takes her opponents seriously. And her MP resources are supposed to be plenty higher than Merlin's.
And since it's not decided that Elizabeth can't heal through the walls of PC...

As I said, there's nothing in the given canon making goddess Elizabeth vulnerable to any of the 4 elements, instead, her genetic link to the SD makes her more likely to be invulnerable to all of them than the opposite. When did we see goddess Elizabeth attacked with any of the 4 elements?! We've seen her nerfed human form dealing with a Hellblaze hound(which should mimic Fire at least) and she OoJ-ed the snot out of it. DI is pretty much out of question with Elizabeth.

The only tricks left to Merlin are PC and Teleportation, which makes her stall, but we don't know how long can she do that; we don't know how slow or fast can PC be overcome by a Kami Chigiri, or a barrage of multiples, we do know Mel and Ellie have to avoid The One happening or getting an attack on them and then they don't even need to attack him anymore, he drops, especially if he has to fight both together or back to back. Merlin has no physical attacks that should help her against Elizabeth who is weak against OP ones when open(without an Ark shield). Dayscanor is actually as vulnerable(or even more so, due to Sunshine damaging him from within the more he uses it, so a PA on him is also a bad move) to having to fight Mel and Ellie as Ellie was in soloing 2 Indura together.

You dont know that they can break Perfect Cube at all. Even if Mel can break the PC Merlin placed on him, Merlin could just cast another from the safety of the other Perfect Cube she is containing herself, Escanor and Eli in. Or she could just double layer Meliodas and replace as needed. Or go for Mel first.

For Elizabeth's ark barrier, we dont even know if she has one and if she does, we dont know how much defense it has. So you can wait as long as you want, but i'm not really seeing a reason to prove Escanor can penetrate something that has yet to exist.
Merlin's MP is infinite, far beyond Eli's. And as i said, even if Eli can heal through PC, which was never decided, Merlin could still easily prevent it by blocking Elizabeth's view of Meliodas. All Merlin would have to do is place an Icicle Castle on top of PC and Eli would be blind to the whole battle.

No, there is nothing in given canon saying Elizabeth is not vulnerable to any of the 4 elements, Elizabeth doesnt just default to immune to them. Everyone is vulnerable to the 4 elements until they prove they are immune. Double Impact should hit Elizabeth even harder than Chandler and Cusack.

Not Merlin's only tricks, but stalling is a brilliant tactic for Merlin with Escanor on her team. I dont know what time of the day this battle starts, but stalling alone could win this fight. Also if this is a tournament then Merlin will know its coming and be able to prepare specifically for Mel and Eli like she did for Chandler and Cusack. Escanor will be able to prepare as well, which may be even more dangerous.