One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

Fuck I hate these Zoro/Sanji arguements. They are so toxic and have successfully ruined this forum

You need to train your Conqueror's Haki to own the toxicity and enjoy it.
What else would we be doing on these break weeks other than arguing Zoro vs Sanji...

 

[Pirate Queen]

You need to train you Conqueror's Haki to own the toxicity and enjoy it.
What else would we be doing on these break weeks other than arguing Zoro vs Sanji...

Bashing Zoro for being a weeb! What else Nik! I wanna see 20 pages of crying and hysterics! I wanna see bitch comments o. the chapter thread! On the power levels thread! On the Davy Jones Fight Thread! On the Zoro Discussion Thread! On the Sanji Discussion Thread! On the Strawhats vs Red Hair Pirates Thread! On the Is Mihawk Im-sama Thread! On the Is Judge Really Top 5 Thread!

I want to see Zoro bashing until my eyes bleed!

 

[afromarco005]

That has nothing do do with what I just said. I made no comparison to Sanji because you cannot compare Sanji to Luffy or Zoro for that matter.

It would be a better arguement to say that Zoro and Sanji have the POTENTIAL to reach YC level during the course of Wano than to outright say they are YC PRESENTLY

My arguement is can be set up easily.

Sanji with the Raid Suit has been shown(not shown? Lol) to be able to easily deal with a top 6 Headliner in Kaido's Army. Beyond Headliners, there are only Jack, Queen, King. If the arguement is made that Sanji is the 3 strongest of the SH Crew (and if Oda is structuring the arc like Enis Lobby) then it stands to reason that Sanji will fight the 3rd strongest of Kaido's Crew.

Luffy = Kaido
Zoro = King
Sanji = Queen

My arguement for Zoro to fight with King is the same as my arguement for Sanji/Queen

Fuck I hate these Zoro/Sanji arguements. They are so toxic and have successfully ruined this forum

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 3, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 3, 2019 ---

There are so many holes in the arguement that Sanji/Zoro fight Queen/King to begin with idk what to think of matchups this arc

I understand your thought process but in my humble opinion Luffy is not ready for kaido for the same reasons I gave for Sanji.

Luffy got one shot last week there is no way he is beating Kaido in such a short period of time. Yes just like sanji he has the potential but he is not quite there yet.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

 

[Pirate Queen]

I understand your thought process but in my humble opinion Luffy is not ready for kaido for the same reasons I gave for Sanji.

Luffy got one shot last week there is no way he is beating Kaido in such a short period of time. Yes just like sanji he has the potential but he is not quite there yet.

Luffy was 1 shot by Crocodile twice lol that arguement holds no weight when we factor in Luffy's growth rate and potential. Add in that he will most likely have help and that taking down Kaido will probably be a group effort...

 

[King Moe]

So now you are the guy who saw and knows everything that happened in a supposedly off-screened fight.
Wow you even know what and what techniques Sanji did and didn't use. I think I'm going to give it to you - the title of best Future Sight user in the world (both within and outside One Piece of course).

You are a really funny bloke bud.



And I was thinking... What if Sanji never had a 100% cos we've seen him use the 100% unless you think he had something outside DJ before Oda decided to give him the RS.
I mean, as a major character, you don't get a power up until you've used up your current arsenal or your most powerful attacks isn't cutting it out anymore against increasingly stronger enemies.
Come to think of it, Sanji's DJ was so weak it could barely damage an intentionally Hakiless and exhausted Luffy. Had to take multiple hits to cause Luffy damage and even then it wasn't enough to out him out for good.

RS Sanji is a whole new prospect given the RS is a very potent battle suit that gives it's user variations of abilities from near indestructible defence to much powerful offensive, and useful special abilities.

It took me to go through the WCI arc all over again before truly admitting that Pre RS Sanji is kinda weak by New World standards (no bias over here its fact).

Also you keep attacking Zoro for not using Haki to protect himself from getting cuts and bruises in his duels but the same argument could be made with Sanji who got shot during the escape by fodders and would've been riddled with bullets had his Siblings not come to the rescue. Luckily for Sanji, he need not worry about that anymore as RS will cover that weakness for him.

TBH, I don't think we'll see Sanji battling without RS from here on out cos he's not powerful enough to do much (and I'm talking about defeating strong combatants) without it. Now he has a 100% we can't wait to see... Not before.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 3, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 3, 2019 ---

See what I'm talking about Moe? Bravo! You've seen the future yet again.

We don't know if Luffy's going to take on Kaido one on one, I wouldn't go on saying it won't happen for sure but it's leaning towards a group effort right from day one. Kidd already stated he'd bring Kaido down (even though he's usually all talk). So is Luffy, and I'm betting Law.
Neither one of them is capable of doing it alone going by their current feats so I feel it'll most likely be more than one vs Kaido.

Feel free to fantasise though... It might as well come true.

Well I didn't know we also have someone who know what happen as well as your trying to counter when you don't know yourself. Though he was already hurting and pushing back Page One without them which cause him to scream in pain, so Idk why your taking offense of me putting out the truth when it was shown on-screen there. Never said I am 100% right on everything, but I do use facts and logic to get to my points, never made them up.

Maybe I accept it as after all, those like you who said my theories won't be 'right' turn out to be with Zoro's sword stolen, him struggling, him getting knockout, etc. . Though still not 100% on that everything will be exactly what I said, but happy enough I was able to call out what would happen. Though happy to share the title with you since you think you know what happen more than me XD.

Majority of his fights are interrupted or too quick to be finished that be a challenge for Sanji and plus we never seen old techniques he uses in both Haki and DJ format and new ones he could have more. That show he has more to add to his arsenal and probably not his 100% he shown lately. Just because he has RS doesn't mean he stop training or he won't fight without it as he never use it as something he needs for power, but more so espionage and disguises as shown lately in chapters he uses it more. He already a powerhouse without the RS, so doubt he be dependable he needs to fight with it every fight.

Also are you really bringing in Luffy vs Sanji? You do realize Sanji not trying to kill him, right? Why would he go all out to kill his friend? You lost your argument after trying to enforce Sanji was going all out with Luffy. Even blackmail, he wouldn't kill Luffy and since it been confirmed Sanji can use Armament Haki (Already was confirmed, but guess others want to see more visible side of it), Sanji could have hit him even harder and potentially kill him more. If your judging that how strong Sanji is because he holding back not to kill his captain, then I guess Luffy was a true 'weakling' when fighting Usopp and didn't want to kill him when he did have the power to do so.

RS only gives at best durability and invisibility, speed and power is still his own and Sanji without it still strong as it been shown who he hold his own and face with. Heck he even bested RS Yonji and Niji despite they are able to damage high-tier enemies in Big Mom's crew, so your ideology saying Sanji is 'weak' outside of the suit is more biased than fair judgement as your not trying especially using Sanji not trying to kill Luffy as him being 'weak'. Your really not reading the situation as much as you are.

Oh, so Sanji should drop Luffy and be on guard on fighting so many enemies at once? Dropping his injured and sleeping captain to know his surroundings? You do realize Yonko Crew were after Luffy and Sanji can't just simply drop him down to fight and plus he have to protect his body first compare to his. Also you forget that one can't use COO when not calm about it and it's kinda hard to stay calm when you have so many fighters after you while Zoro only facing one opponent with both Hawkins and Kamazou and look what happened? No excuse for him to get injured compare to Sanji facing multiple opponents on his end. RS doesn't cover much as Sanji still got his own power without it, he uses for other purposes than for sake of power. It been stated when he first uses it about it.

Though hey seems like you know how Sanji is and now putting out what will happen despite the fact your questioning me about stating something with more evidence to back up mine. You sure you don't want Future Sight title cause so far your predicting, but not accurately though.

Who said Luffy faces him one on one? I said many times on the thread Kidd and Law will fight with him, but Luffy probably get most of the fighting in similar with Doflamingo fight. It doesn't' change the fact Luffy wants to face him head-on and not running away from him, so same can be said with Sanji and others as they go through with Luffy on facing tougher enemies and get stronger along with him. Idk why your having a serious issue over this as just stating what's going on and where things are leading. So again, try not to take things so seriously in your post as again we having friendly discussion after all and work on your side on how your are examining Sanji as comparing Luffy vs Sanji and then Sanji vs an Yonko group while Zoro have single opponents is bad observation by far as it shows your not paying attention to the situation at hand. Just saying, no hate or anything.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 3, 2019 ---

Well we find out Hannibal biased lately, thought he was more better than this, but what can you do when Zoro fans are in denial of Zoro fainting from one hit and yet Sanji never did once in a fight. Guess the denial is hard when your favorite character is underperforming badly in an arc many claim to be 'Zoro's arc' of his 'best' performance .

 

[Pirate Queen]

Well I didn't know we also have someone who know what happen as well as your trying to counter when you don't know yourself. Though he was already hurting and pushing back Page One without them which cause him to scream in pain, so Idk why your taking offense of me putting out the truth when it was shown on-screen there. Never said I am 100% right on everything, but I do use facts and logic to get to my points, never made them up.

Maybe I accept it as after all, those like you who said my theories won't be 'right' turn out to be with Zoro's sword stolen, him struggling, him getting knockout, etc. . Though still not 100% on that everything will be exactly what I said, but happy enough I was able to call out what would happen. Though happy to share the title with you since you think you know what happen more than me XD.

Majority of his fights are interrupted or too quick to be finished that be a challenge for Sanji and plus we never seen old techniques he uses in both Haki and DJ format and new ones he could have more. That show he has more to add to his arsenal and probably not his 100% he shown lately. Just because he has RS doesn't mean he stop training or he won't fight without it as he never use it as something he needs for power, but more so espionage and disguises as shown lately in chapters he uses it more. He already a powerhouse without the RS, so doubt he be dependable he needs to fight with it every fight.

Also are you really bringing in Luffy vs Sanji? You do realize Sanji not trying to kill him, right? Why would he go all out to kill his friend? You lost your argument after trying to enforce Sanji was going all out with Luffy. Even blackmail, he wouldn't kill Luffy and since it been confirmed Sanji can use Armament Haki (Already was confirmed, but guess others want to see more visible side of it), Sanji could have hit him even harder and potentially kill him more. If your judging that how strong Sanji is because he holding back not to kill his captain, then I guess Luffy was a true 'weakling' when fighting Usopp and didn't want to kill him when he did have the power to do so.

RS only gives at best durability and invisibility, speed and power is still his own and Sanji without it still strong as it been shown who he hold his own and face with. Heck he even bested RS Yonji and Niji despite they are able to damage high-tier enemies in Big Mom's crew, so your ideology saying Sanji is 'weak' outside of the suit is more biased than fair judgement as your not trying especially using Sanji not trying to kill Luffy as him being 'weak'. Your really not reading the situation as much as you are.

Oh, so Sanji should drop Luffy and be on guard on fighting so many enemies at once? Dropping his injured and sleeping captain to know his surroundings? You do realize Yonko Crew were after Luffy and Sanji can't just simply drop him down to fight and plus he have to protect his body first compare to his. Also you forget that one can't use COO when not calm about it and it's kinda hard to stay calm when you have so many fighters after you while Zoro only facing one opponent with both Hawkins and Kamazou and look what happened? No excuse for him to get injured compare to Sanji facing multiple opponents on his end. RS doesn't cover much as Sanji still got his own power without it, he uses for other purposes than for sake of power. It been stated when he first uses it about it.

Though hey seems like you know how Sanji is and now putting out what will happen despite the fact your questioning me about stating something with more evidence to back up mine. You sure you don't want Future Sight title cause so far your predicting, but not accurately though.

Who said Luffy faces him one on one? I said many times on the thread Kidd and Law will fight with him, but Luffy probably get most of the fighting in similar with Doflamingo fight. It doesn't' change the fact Luffy wants to face him head-on and not running away from him, so same can be said with Sanji and others as they go through with Luffy on facing tougher enemies and get stronger along with him. Idk why your having a serious issue over this as just stating what's going on and where things are leading. So again, try not to take things so seriously in your post as again we having friendly discussion after all and work on your side on how your are examining Sanji as comparing Luffy vs Sanji and then Sanji vs an Yonko group while Zoro have single opponents is bad observation by far as it shows your not paying attention to the situation at hand. Just saying, no hate or anything.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 3, 2019 ---

Well we find out Hannibal biased lately, thought he was more better than this, but what can you do when Zoro fans are in denial of Zoro fainting from one hit and yet Sanji never did once in a fight. Guess the denial is hard when your favorite character is underperforming badly in an arc many claim to be 'Zoro's arc' of his 'best' performance .

Damn Moe, going hard in the paint.

Hid yo kids, hid you girl, Moe is coming after errrr body!

 

[King Moe]

@afromarco005 Why you see it farfetched? They did the same thing in Water 7 and Enies Lobby, are you saying Oda will never try it again on training off-screen?

We see already Sanji beating T6H easily, the more you deny it, the more you make no sense. There is no other challenge except for an YC, so you got to get used to Sanji going to face someone like that if T6H members can't give him much trouble. Yeah, he uses RS to test on an high-tier member and defeat them easily and stop the excuse if he is not down as this point, he is. Him not causing trouble after many time has passed especially Hawkins and Drake came to his side and would have tell him to follow them to the bathhouse and capturing others. To not see him by their side, shows more he isn't around and defeated. Your desperate on trying to enforce and prove it when we know Oda does this before on results no need to be on-screen to be shown and so far it proves it with how Drake and Hawkins acting especially former with Drake being pissed and want to go after Sanji more, so that signals heavily he defeated PO.

Like Lexus said, both Sanji and Zoro have potential to face an YC lvl opponent down the line of this arc if Luffy is facing Kaido at the end of this. They are his strongest fighters in the crew and are always not far behind their captain to his power, so you got accept it man as if you think neither will ever get stronger forever.

Didn't Zoro still defeated his opponent anyway? Well Tie with his opponent since he fainted easily by one-hit, but make them even though. Luffy also said his odds on beating Katakuri, but still bested him too, so again if Sanji really felt he couldn't, he would have run away and stop fighting, but instead he kept fighting until Vergo left himself and since with what Rayleigh said that the tougher the fight, the stronger your Haki get in the end. We don't know how it would go down, but for Sanji to hold his own especially wasn't 100% and recovering, shows if he was fresher, he can handle him especially it shows more he has Armament Haki to harden his body, so possible for him to have more advantage if the fight went on.

 

[nik87]

We see already Sanji beating T6H easily,

The major point of something being off-panel is that we do NOT see it. Sorry Moe-kun, we dont see it.
Oda's ultimate troll on you would be if PageOne appears without a scratch.

Well Tie with his opponent since he fainted easily by one-hit

Using that majestic logic of yours, Hody Jones tied with Luffy since Luffy fainted from one bite and needed blood transfusion, same like Okama prince Wankji. Zoro didnt need blood transfusion even after all of his blood got pumped out of his body during TB.

 

[afromarco005]

@afromarco005 Why you see it farfetched? They did the same thing in Water 7 and Enies Lobby, are you saying Oda will never try it again on training off-screen?

We see already Sanji beating T6H easily, the more you deny it, the more you make no sense. There is no other challenge except for an YC, so you got to get used to Sanji going to face someone like that if T6H members can't give him much trouble. Yeah, he uses RS to test on an high-tier member and defeat them easily and stop the excuse if he is not down as this point, he is. Him not causing trouble after many time has passed especially Hawkins and Drake came to his side and would have tell him to follow them to the bathhouse and capturing others. To not see him by their side, shows more he isn't around and defeated. Your desperate on trying to enforce and prove it when we know Oda does this before on results no need to be on-screen to be shown and so far it proves it with how Drake and Hawkins acting especially former with Drake being pissed and want to go after Sanji more, so that signals heavily he defeated PO.

Like Lexus said, both Sanji and Zoro have potential to face an YC lvl opponent down the line of this arc if Luffy is facing Kaido at the end of this. They are his strongest fighters in the crew and are always not far behind their captain to his power, so you got accept it man as if you think neither will ever get stronger forever.

Didn't Zoro still defeated his opponent anyway? Well Tie with his opponent since he fainted easily by one-hit, but make them even though. Luffy also said his odds on beating Katakuri, but still bested him too, so again if Sanji really felt he couldn't, he would have run away and stop fighting, but instead he kept fighting until Vergo left himself and since with what Rayleigh said that the tougher the fight, the stronger your Haki get in the end. We don't know how it would go down, but for Sanji to hold his own especially wasn't 100% and recovering, shows if he was fresher, he can handle him especially it shows more he has Armament Haki to harden his body, so possible for him to have more advantage if the fight went on.

Yess you iz right Moe kun!!! Sanji is fighting both Queen and King! The cook iz 2 stronk!!!

Moe got jokes! Don't ever change

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Also are you really bringing in Luffy vs Sanji? You do realize Sanji not trying to kill him, right? Why would he go all out to kill his friend? You lost your argument after trying to enforce Sanji was going all out with Luffy.

Sighs*
I guess I'll have to start a quiz here:
Who made this statement in the One Piece franchise?
"I disrespected and injured my own captain to the best of my ability"
(a) Zoro (b) Sanji (c) Nami (d) Franky

Well there you have it Moe. Your favourite character gave is all to bring down his captain in what was his fiercest attack multiple times.
This is against an exhausted Luffy who refused to defend himself let alone use Haki.

I only brought this up to show why I regarded Sanji as weak. Pre Raid Suit that is.

Kill? Don't make me laugh. Sanji's attack can't kill a fly (I meant fodder) much less a stubborn Luffy.
Since when does going all out equates to killing someone huh?
Luffy goes all out sometimes and none of his opponent ever end up dead? Shocking!

Never said I am 100% right on everything, but I do use facts and logic to get to my points, never made them up.

Fantasy logic you mean

RS only gives at best durability and invisibility, speed and power is still his own and Sanji without it still strong

I thought you were clever. No, no, I bet you still are.
Virtually everyone has seen the Power of Raid Suits. It gives you everything you lack and more.
You might say Sanji is fast but guess what, his siblings don't think so and they mock him for being slow thanks to their mighty Raid Suit. This is me assuming you read through WCI already or even watched it.

Heck he even bested RS Yonji and Niji despite they are able to damage high-tier enemies

Show me a panel where he bested them in their Raid Suit.

 

[King Moe]

Yess you iz right Moe kun!!! Sanji is fighting both Queen and King! The cook iz 2 stronk!!!

Moe got jokes! Don't ever change

Who said he fighting both? I said either one. The other probably Law's Opponent. Again failed to read context as always lol XD.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 3, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 3, 2019 ---

Sighs*
I guess I'll have to start a quiz here:
Who made this statement in the One Piece franchise?
"I disrespected and injured my own captain to the best of my ability"
(a) Zoro (b) Sanji (c) Nami (d) Franky

Well there you have it Moe. Your favourite character gave is all to bring down his captain in what was his fiercest attack multiple times.
This is against an exhausted Luffy who refused to defend himself let alone use Haki.

I only brought this up to show why I regarded Sanji as weak. Pre Raid Suit that is.

Kill? Don't make me laugh. Sanji's attack can't kill a fly (I meant fodder) much less a stubborn Luffy.
Since when does going all out equates to killing someone huh?
Luffy goes all out sometimes and none of his opponent ever end up dead? Shocking!







Fantasy logic you mean



I thought you were clever. No, no, I bet you still are.
Virtually everyone has seen the Power of Raid Suits. It gives you everything you lack and more.
You might say Sanji is fast but guess what, his siblings don't think so and they mock him for being slow thanks to their mighty Raid Suit. This is me assuming you read through WCI already or even watched it.





Show me a panel where he bested them in their Raid Suit.

And who was the one who said that was BS? Luffy as he call out that wasn't Sanji's true feelings also meaning Sanji never use his full power on him. Why you want him to kill him? Where is your logic, man? Why would Sanji want to go fully out on Luffy and kill him especially since he can't fight back. He wanted him to leave, not beat him to death.

Sanji is aware of how he went into which is why he hold back more and by your logic I guess Luffy use all his power out on Usopp when they fought when we all know Luffy could kill him easily and gave Usopp more advantage as he was having tough time wanting to hurt him until he needed too.

No dude, your desperate and using this as a excuse is stupid. Your blatantly saying Sanji should have damage him enough to near-death state or more out of it when we all know Sanji even if he was force, would NEVER do that. Not because he was weak, cause it's his CHARACETR (Emphasizing). I am trying to understand you, but your making it harder for me to look at your side if your using something like that as reason Sanji is 'weak'. Killing a friend to make you strong or damaging badly enough despite his character? Yeah, it's for sure you biased man. Just admit you hate Sanji and dislike you seeing him getting better treatment compare to Zoro as your not really helping your side at all.

Of course he can kill, but don't cause it's his character. Name me a time since any of the Strawhats kill someone and that includes fodder as many times they don't. Don't think any even did except maybe Robin due her 'surviving' pasts, but since joining, no one in the crew actually kill anyone. So again another argument your forcing to no logic to their characters. Luffy never kills even the main antagonists of each arc. Does that mean he is 'weak'? No, because he is not one to kill someone. Not in his character. He fights to beat them down, but not to murder them just the same as his crew. Zoro haven't kill others much at all since he joined too.

So yeah, get with the times and reread back what series this is if you don't understand the situation about this at all. Also of course Sanji can kill him and even badly hurt him. Your the only one acting a fool here since if you think Sanji went all out then you really never know what WCI was, your just in your own headcannon of what it like in your fantasy.

Nah, that's your logic coming from the guy who want to insert Sanji vs Luffy was his 'full power' lol. Nice try, but your convincing anyone. Try say that in other threads and see how you fare lol.

Oh I didn't know? What does it do for attack power? Cause so far just durability at best and invisibility while attack and speed is his own. Sanji is fast and you again using him escaping when he was facing multiple people after him of a Yonko crew. Like how you keep ignoring that. Are you implying anyone in his case would have escape better than him? Like Zoro-...Oh no wait! Nah, just faint the moment he get hit hard. 'Guess Zoro haven't been that helpful'- Luffy.

Yonji was off-screen, but damage was shown after he was hit hard that he needed medically to get those 'earmuffs' thing from his skull as he hit him so hard and Niji got kick in the face so hard he has to put his neck back in place after was sent flying and bleeding. You keep stating he is 'weak' but so far Sanji is stronger than he is and most of his fights were interrupted or he has to hold back. Nothing ever shows this is Sanji at his 100% and that's more your emotional viewpoint than canon. Sorry, but got to do better research man. Think of the future when debating with others, alright ? You don't want to be like @nik87 with his trolling and denial as already it's looking bad for him on being taken seriously. Though will say your reaching that point the more you come with this facepalming 'opinions' XD.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

On a serious note, and in all honesty, Sanji is overrated. That's just the truth. Is it because I want to bash Sanji? No, it's Oda's fault. He's represented him in a way that doesn't do him justice since the time-skip.

Pre-skip, Zoro took out someone with 2200 Doriki, Sanji took out 2180, relatively fighting opponents of similar strength. He was just as effective as Zoro was against Oars. I can't recall any fight or scene pre-skip that made me 2nd guess Sanji's strength. Back then I'd have easily agreed that they were equal strength. If I wanted to quantify the strength of Zoro and Sanji, if I gave Zoro a 100, I'd easily have attributed a 98-100 to Sanji. There just wasn't such a disparity in strength between the 2 based on portrayal and feats.

Since the New World from Punk Hazard and beyond, Sanji hasn't looked like a Monster trio. Sanji got injured against Vergo. Yes, the reason is because he was injured from an explosion. Question is did Oda really need to have Sanji break a bone? What was the point? The only point one can derive from this is that Oda wanted to portray some sort of gap in strength. This is now how you portray a character you want people to view as powerful, it's how you portray a character whose strength is not all that great.

Then we saw him take on Joker, got 1 shot and had to be saved by Law. Did Oda really need to put him in such a situation? Why didn't Oda at the very least have him hold his own? Why humiliate him? While that is happening, Zoro is fighting against an Admiral and actually pushed him back with a flying slash.

We see Zoro, Luffy, Bellamy, Sai all used Hardened Armament, Sanji on the other hand is never shown using it. Why did Oda do this? It's not like it's difficult to draw Hardening. Oda will showcase Hardening in whatever way possible to make it conspicuous. If he has to draw over clothes to make it visible or change black into white to make the black stand out (the spades on PIca are black by default unless when Hardening is used). Oda's gone out of his way to portray Sanji as relatively weak.

Even the speed that some people try to praise Sanji for is not even there. No character has ever praised his speed. Judge had no issues with his speed fighting him and actually beat him in their fight. Daifuku had no issues with his speed either. No character has ever praised his speed.

On top of that, it's as if Oda portrayed Sanji as weak just so he could make up for his lack of strength with the RS which offers enhanced durability, flight, invisibility when he could have just portrayed Sanji as a physical specimen and beast.

Since the New World, I'd say Brook and even Chopper have appeared to look even more formidable than Sanji. Brook held his own against Big Mom, Chopper tanked her attacks, Jimbei sent her flying off the Sunny. What has Sanji done that's anywhere as impressive as that? Granted, against a weakened Big Mom, but he looked bad against Judge of all people even before he called wall.

Sanji defeating Queen or King seems like a far cry away. At this point in the series, I wouldn't say there's a monster trio anymore. It's more like a monster duo. A trio once Jimbei joins unless Sanji actually proves to be a lot more formidable than he's been presented.

 

[King Moe]

On a serious note, and in all honesty, Sanji is overrated. That's just the truth. Is it because I want to bash Sanji? No, it's Oda's fault. He's represented him in a way that doesn't do him justice since the time-skip.

Pre-skip, Zoro took out someone with 2200 Doriki, Sanji took out 2180, relatively fighting opponents of similar strength. He was just as effective as Zoro was against Oars. I can't recall any fight or scene pre-skip that made me 2nd guess Sanji's strength. Back then I'd have easily agreed that they were equal strength. If I wanted to quantify the strength of Zoro and Sanji, if I gave Zoro a 100, I'd easily have attributed a 98-100 to Sanji. There just wasn't such a disparity in strength between the 2 based on portrayal and feats.

Since the New World from Punk Hazard and beyond, Sanji hasn't looked like a Monster trio. Sanji got injured against Vergo. Yes, the reason is because he was injured from an explosion. Question is did Oda really need to have Sanji break a bone? What was the point? The only point one can derive from this is that Oda wanted to portray some sort of gap in strength. This is now how you portray a character you want people to view as powerful, it's how you portray a character whose strength is not all that great.

Then we saw him take on Joker, got 1 shot and had to be saved by Law. Did Oda really need to put him in such a situation? Why didn't Oda at the very least have him hold his own? Why humiliate him? While that is happening, Zoro is fighting against an Admiral and actually pushed him back with a flying slash.

We see Zoro, Luffy, Bellamy, Sai all used Hardened Armament, Sanji on the other hand is never shown using it. Why did Oda do this? It's not like it's difficult to draw Hardening. Oda will showcase Hardening in whatever way possible to make it conspicuous. If he has to draw over clothes to make it visible or change black into white to make the black stand out (the spades on PIca are black by default unless when Hardening is used). Oda's gone out of his way to portray Sanji as relatively weak.

Even the speed that some people try to praise Sanji for is not even there. No character has ever praised his speed. Judge had no issues with his speed fighting him and actually beat him in their fight. Daifuku had no issues with his speed either. No character has ever praised his speed.

On top of that, it's as if Oda portrayed Sanji as weak just so he could make up for his lack of strength with the RS which offers enhanced durability, flight, invisibility when he could have just portrayed Sanji as a physical specimen and beast.

Since the New World, I'd say Brook and even Chopper have appeared to look even more formidable than Sanji. Brook held his own against Big Mom, Chopper tanked her attacks, Jimbei sent her flying off the Sunny. What has Sanji done that's anywhere as impressive as that? Granted, against a weakened Big Mom, but he looked bad against Judge of all people even before he called wall.

Sanji defeating Queen or King seems like a far cry away. At this point in the series, I wouldn't say there's a monster trio anymore. It's more like a monster duo. A trio once Jimbei joins unless Sanji actually proves to be a lot more formidable than he's been presented.

Hannibal, you are doing that and while I do admit on Sanji's performance lately, there never been a case he ever went all out as again most fights were interrupted and him holding back on something on him. I can agree with you on his performance needing more work, but it's not that bad and nor is he overrated, that's more your opinion than whole fanbase. Right now the one overrated is Zoro since he was hype up greatly by Zoro fans thinking he was 'unstoppable', but look what happened this chapter. That's is overrated as he should be more capable than that especially durability, so right now Sanji is doing fine especially gotten his win over a serious threat that is PO of T6H while Zoro is struggle with fodder-like enemies, so it's not looking good more for him compare to Sanji.

If Sanji easily defeated a T6H, only YC is in his future now and nothing can challenge him out if members like that are easily defeated by him. Oda been working his character fine and while he does need work on fighting, it's hard that bad especially he has reasons in many of his fights, not excuses and stop with Vergo one as it been debunked already. I give you Doflamingo one, sure, but he getting stronger since then over that and will only get stronger like everyone else here on out.

Stop with Jimbei, he has no feats in NW and have yet to defeat anyone formidable. Your desperate attempt to bash Sanji and say he is 'no longer Monster Trio' is baffling. Listen we respect you more if you admit the truth instead of forcing this persona opinion of yours as it's hard to see your side if you can't be honest. If anything, Luffy and Sanji are still Monster Trio status, after this chapter, Zoro maybe losing his after how badly it went while Jimbei might joined, but I still believe on Monster Trio are stronger than him end of the day. So again yeah, your overacting on the situation on Sanji as he is still regarded strong and Monster Trio status especially lately on actions.

Like it or not, the plot is putting him possibly facing one of the YC, preferably Queen or King while Zoro after latest events probably have Orochi as his final opponent especially he is by Hiyori's side after all.

 

[nik87]

Everything about Sanji, since time skip, is overrated. From his speed, his CoO, his offense to his defense. To me, it is a very obvious thing but I understand that part of the community doesn't see it that way.
Oda made Sanji his favorite joke character, he was doing it before but after time skip he has stepped it up.

He has placed him at Okama kingdom for 2 years to wear a dress and run away from queers to ultimately make him basically an Okama by giving him Okama blood. Frequent nose bleeds as gag turned into a life-threatening situation. Peeking at Nami and getting his face deformed as if he fought a bee hive. I understand the comedy behind it but it is too much for a character who is supposedly one of the top combatants in the crew.

I can make good arguments for Franky and Chopper having much better combat potential than Sanji, Oda simply chooses not to so he can keep the set power structure. Jinbe, however, will easily push Sanji down if he doesnt show up some tremendous improvements.
Even his latest bounty increase is purely for comedic reasons. Increased by his father...

 

[King Moe]

Everything about Sanji, since time skip, is overrated. From his speed, his CoO, his offense to his defense. To me, it is a very obvious thing but I understand that part of the community doesn't see it that way.
Oda made Sanji his favorite joke character, he was doing it before but after time skip he has stepped it up.

He has placed him at Okama kingdom for 2 years to wear a dress and run away from queers to ultimately make him basically an Okama by giving him Okama blood. Frequent nose bleeds as gag turned into a life-threatening situation. Peeking at Nami and getting his face deformed as if he fought a bee hive. I understand the comedy behind it but it is too much for a character who is supposedly one of the top combatants in the crew.

I can make good arguments for Franky and Chopper having much better combat potential than Sanji, Oda simply chooses not to so he can keep the set power structure. Jinbe, however, will easily push Sanji down if he doesnt show up some tremendous improvements.
Even his latest bounty increase is purely for comedic reasons. Increased by his father...

Coming from the guy who always said and expect 'great things' of Zoro and always bash Sanji especially him doing poorly in the arc. Yeah, we not gonna take you seriously since you keep trying to fight and denied things for the worse of Zoro. Until then, you opinion doesn't matter much especially as Zoro fan lol. You have so many debates with me about what I mention Zoro which turn out to be true later on.

Sanji is fine how he is and not overrated unlike an certain swordsman and his performance which is definition of overrated and nice try using Franky and Chopper, but then again I know those two can take more than Zoro who fainted from one hit unlike Franky with his body and Chopper facing BM head on and never fainted .

Nah, it was increase by what Morgan saw and he saw him fighting and going after others, so Morgan based on power when he mentions things especially taking pictures of it. Wasn't because of Vinsmoke name only. Jimbei won't do shit as he has yet to show anything in NW Feats on beating anyone high-tier. I expect him not to do much as Monster Trio and be below them.

 

[nik87]

Coming from the guy who always said and expect 'great things' of Zoro and always bash Sanji especially him doing poorly in the arc. Yeah, we not gonna take you seriously since you keep trying to fight and denied things for the worse of Zoro. Until then, you opinion doesn't matter much especially as Zoro fan lol. You have so many debates with me about what I mention Zoro which turn out to be true later on.

Sanji is fine how he is and not overrated unlike an certain swordsman and his performance which is definition of overrated and nice try using Franky and Chopper, but then again I know those two can take more than Zoro who fainted from one hit unlike Franky with his body and Chopper facing BM head on and never fainted .

Nah, it was increase by what Morgan saw and he saw him fighting and going after others, so Morgan based on power when he mentions things especially taking pictures of it. Wasn't because of Vinsmoke name only. Jimbei won't do shit as he has yet to show anything in NW Feats on beating anyone high-tier. I expect him not to do much as Monster Trio and be below them.

If you didnt notice I didnt mention Zoro anywhere, I spoke about Okama cook but that is your only way of arguing, by trying to bring in Zoro.

Sorry Moe-kun but facts destroy you every time. Number 1 Okama prince needed his daddy to up his bounty and barely passed faint-master Zoro.

 

[afromarco005]

Moe kun Sanji himself admits he tried gis hardest

 

[King Moe]

If you didnt notice I didnt mention Zoro anywhere, I spoke about Okama cook but that is your only way of arguing, by trying to bring in Zoro.

Sorry Moe-kun but facts destroy you every time. Number 1 Okama prince needed his daddy to up his bounty and barely passed faint-master Zoro.

Though your acting more because Zoro's performance lately. Why else your doing this ?

Didn't say he didn't get increase because of his family, I said not only reason. You got read posts more man. Morgan saw him fighting and his capabilities as well Stussy, so I do why your ignoring he wasn't there.

Thought you said bounty doesn't mean nothing, now your complaining him surpassing him barely? Lol your counter your own words more and more. I feel bad for Glass-Man (Zoro) and his fans can't admit when they are wrong when Glass-Man can.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

If you didnt notice I didnt mention Zoro anywhere, I spoke about Okama cook but that is your only way of arguing, by trying to bring in Zoro.

Sorry Moe-kun but facts destroy you every time. Number 1 Okama prince needed his daddy to up his bounty and barely passed faint-master Zoro.

Is that a Ben Shapiro reference ? It's true, Oda has turned Sanji into a joke and he needs to show a lot of improvement.