Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.
It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.
For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.
As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:
Shanks v Mihawk
Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
Zoro > Luffy
Zoro v Sanji
Is Smoker a top 30 character?
Mihawk's rank within the story
Law having CoC currently.
Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.
If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.
This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.
I wonder if Sanji losing a leg is a possibility that we can expect in future?
It has kinda been hinted at it. Oda never did anything with his bones breaking against Vergo so that could have been the first hint.
The man that Sanji considers his father, Zeff, has also lost his leg and Sanji is basically what red foot Zeff once was, a kicker pirate.
All Calamities in Wano are swordsmen, as well as all samurai, even the Supernova's that work on Kaido's side are swordsmen. Even Apoo who isnt a swordsman has, what seems op cutting ability. If Sanji ends up fighting some of them, could he lose a leg? If so, how would he overcome such handicap?
A peg leg which he can coat in CoA? Cybernetic leg from a joint effort of Franky and Vegapunk? It gets re-attached by Law or with Leo's ability?
The opponents in Wano are without a doubt top tier so, at the end of the arc, we could expect injuries more severe than ever before.
True it is heavily hinted, and to make a parrallel with Zeff, Sanji would lose his left leg. Thats cool and pirate like!
As we have already started technological based power ups for the cook, why not have Franky and Ussop design a OP mechanical leg a bit like Guts arm from berserk, Hed get upgrades every arcs, flame throwers, weapons to make up for his lack of range, haki, invisibility this is a genius idea Nik!
Now since we have law and other doctors around, Orochi would need to eat and make the leg dissapear during his fight with kooks so that they can not reattach it.
True it is heavily hinted, and to make a parrallel with Zeff, Sanji would lose his left leg. Thats cool and pirate like!
As we have already started technological based power ups for the cook, why not have Franky and Ussop design a OP mechanical leg a bit like Guts arm from berserk, Hed get upgrades every arcs, flame throwers, weapons to make up for his lack of range, haki, invisibility this is a genius idea Nik!
Now since we have law and other doctors around, Orochi would need to eat and make the leg dissapear during his fight with kooks so that they can not reattach it.
I mean the possibilities are endless. There are Franky and Usopp who can create the first mechanical leg. Then, Judge might have some technology that would be an upgrade over Usopp's and Franky's version. Finally, Dr Vegapunk could present the final solution.
Franky already managed to create the shape-shifting metal - Vapometal, his General Franky is made of it. It could provide several combat advantages for Sanji. It could be a canon, similar to Buggy canon that is worked into Buggy's shoes, just a far more powerful version. It also would provide the hardest shield Sanji would have, a body part that cant really get hurt, even if damaged it could be repaired or replaced...
This cover story may have hinted few things.
Mr 1 is dressed into what seems similar to Germa's suits. His arms are crossing the number one. Right below the number one the hair of Galdino is positioning number 3. Number 3, which is Sanji's number of the suit is written on Mr 2.
Now look at the legs of all of them, except Crocodile. Mr 1 sitting position may be hinting at one leg. Mr 3's leg is severed by the dust cloud. Lower leg of Mr 2 is almost completely covered by the dust cloud. I could be overthinking this but again, who knows...
Since Sanji will depend on technology anyway this could be a way of a power-up.
They say if you argue with someone for extended period of time, you'll start reasoning like them... hahaha... Don't you know?! "Reasoning" is contagious! Lol.
On a more serious note though... No, I don't see Sanji losing a leg. He fights with only two legs. It won't feel the same if he has a mechanical leg or whatnot... Besides, we have the robo Franky guy. That's his thing. How would you feel if Usopp gets a lightening gadget? Losing a leg at this point would add nothing to his character IMHO (Important Note: I'm not shouting, I'm only emphasizing with Zeff's voice, @nik87).
Just found it last week when I was checking some information. It's been out there for nearly 2 weeks already. I know Oda once said Zoro and Sanji are rivals but this looks like the confirmation that Zoro's stronger as a fighter while Sanji is his rival though he's bit weaker as his position in the crew is cook first, combatant second.
I can understand why you had to bring this up... But whoever thought Sanji was stronger than Zoro in combat was not only being biassed, but rediculously delusional.
They say if you argue with someone for extended period of time, you'll start reasoning like them... hahaha... Don't you know?! "Reasoning" is contagious! Lol.
On a more serious note though... No, I don't see Sanji losing a leg. He fights with only two legs. It won't feel the same if he has a mechanical leg or whatnot... Besides, we have the robo Franky guy. That's his thing. How would you feel if Usopp gets a lightening gadget? Losing a leg at this point would add nothing to his character IMHO (Important Note: I'm not shouting, I'm only emphasizing with Zeff's voice, @nik87).
I can understand why you had to bring this up... But whoever thought Sanji was stronger than Zoro in combat was not only being biassed, but rediculously delusional.
Just found it last week when I was checking some information. It's been out there for nearly 2 weeks already. I know Oda once said Zoro and Sanji are rivals but this looks like the confirmation that Zoro's stronger as a fighter while Sanji is his rival though he's bit weaker as his position in the crew is cook first, combatant second.
Never stated though he is stronger than Sanji, just not stronger than Luffy. Plus doubt Oda ever admit it since he enjoys their rivalry as shown with evidence and how they compete in manna. Not long ago we got cover page them can only beat each other in his dreams. Doesn't look to be "stronger" on either side if Oda continue to put tie and equal outcomes like those.
Plus latest chapter hard to see Zoro better when he unable to take a single hut without fainting. Until it said in manna about this one, Idk about databook on that subject.
Never stated though he is stronger than Sanji, just not stronger than Luffy. Plus doubt Oda ever admit it since he enjoys their rivalry as shown with evidence and how they compete in manna. Not long ago we got cover page them can only beat each other in his dreams. Doesn't look to be "stronger" on either side if Oda continue to put tie and equal outcomes like those.
Plus latest chapter hard to see Zoro better when he unable to take a single hut without fainting. Until it said in manna about this one, Idk about databook on that subject.
Yeah, it seems like Moe doesnt understand what strongest means and his back up on them being equal is a non-canon cover page request.
About your first post, I realized I replied in latest chapter discussion with the same argument that Moe makes, the "majority"...
Yeah, it seems like Moe doesnt understand what strongest means and his back up on them being equal is a non-canon cover page request.
About your first post, I realized I replied in latest chapter discussion with the same argument that Moe makes, the "majority"...
What do you expect from a guy who fanboys so much he's blinded himself a la Fujitora. Seeing anyone who doesn't agree with him as hater or hardcore fanboy of another character.
He's built a world of Fantasy in his sacred shrine akin to Katakuri's and will question everyone including Oda himself for not going along with his own reasoning.
• He'll accuse you of head cannon meanwhile he's the perpetrator.
• He misunderstands/misinterprets comments too often but will claim it the other way round.
• Everyone (not fanboying Sanji) is biased but he's an objective reader.
• He has the best prediction rate and very accurate predictions.
• He can't backup everything he claims to be factual and correct yet he's the victim.
The Godfather of One Piece and doting Foster dad of Sanji.
You just have to admire his burning passion even though it's channeled in the wrong direction.
PS: In case anyone calls me out. I mentioned nobody's name.
@AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA Well said!
Jokes aside, Sanji really needs a power up to play with the big boys. His combat style may require to exploit weak spots of his opponents and hit them where it hurts most - in the head but still, even that is questionable since with power behind his kicks the upper echelon wont really be affected.
We have Doflamingo and Katakuri, who have tanked Kong Guns to their faces and were not defeated by them. How will Sanji defeat them when his power is barely a fraction of a Kong Gun... He is a very simple combatant and is limiting himself to combat with legs only. Raid Suit seems to provide impressive defense against blunt attacks at least but I think it wont be of use against sharp weapons but apparently it protects from regular bullets as well.
Acceleration device on his heels may provide stronger kicks but it needs to be a significant increase to really make a difference.
Or Oda will simply give him opponents which conveniently fit his combat style. Personally, I wouldnt mind the suit to be his permanent upgrade but there are many fans who also dislike it. It would be interesting if Oda made at least some use of his hands in combat, at least 2 simple guns or some Ichiji-like "lasers" that he hit Oven with.
Technically the word has been used like that in the series before. For example both Aokiji and Kizaru were called the strongest Marine, which seems to commonly apply to all Admirals. If you are going to mock someone, at least try to get the facts straight...
@AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA Well said!
Jokes aside, Sanji really needs a power up to play with the big boys. His combat style may require to exploit weak spots of his opponents and hit them where it hurts most - in the head but still, even that is questionable since with power behind his kicks the upper echelon wont really be affected.
We have Doflamingo and Katakuri, who have tanked Kong Guns to their faces and were not defeated by them. How will Sanji defeat them when his power is barely a fraction of a Kong Gun... He is a very simple combatant and is limiting himself to combat with legs only. Raid Suit seems to provide impressive defense against blunt attacks at least but I think it wont be of use against sharp weapons but apparently it protects from regular bullets as well.
Acceleration device on his heels may provide stronger kicks but it needs to be a significant increase to really make a difference.
Or Oda will simply give him opponents which conveniently fit his combat style. Personally, I wouldnt mind the suit to be his permanent upgrade but there are many fans who also dislike it. It would be interesting if Oda made at least some use of his hands in combat, at least 2 simple guns or some Ichiji-like "lasers" that he hit Oven with.
I feel the RS is the best believable Power up Sanji can get hence he'll be sticking to it.
He might not like it so much now but the way things are looking, he'll come to appreciate it's gifts very soon especially if Franky and Usopp get to work on it. I wonder how they'll get enough time to come up with something for the suit with all the crazy happenings in Wano (and it only gets crazier).
Sanji seems to be as stubborn as Luffy when it comes to his personal ideals so I really don't see him using his hands anytime in the future. I also agree with how nice and advantageous it'd be if he made use of his hands for once (especially with a tech suit).
But given the guy wouldn't budge with his "feeding the hungry" ideals even though he and the crew were in the greatest danger they ever faced, I doubt he will as it pertains to another one of his cooking codes "hands are for cooking not fighting" no matter the cost.
Technically the word has been used like that in the series before. For example both Aokiji and Kizaru were called the strongest Marine, which seems to commonly apply to all Admirals.
Technically the word has been used like that in the series before. For example both Aokiji and Kizaru were called the strongest Marine, which seems to commonly apply to all Admirals. If you are going to mock someone, at least try to get the facts straight...
It was specifically mentioned that Admirals are Marines' strongest force and duel from Aokiji and Akainu really has shown them to be equal.
Here, in this case, strongest is clearly used only for Zoro, no mention of Sanji and really pushing that idea of him being equal to Zoro is an idea that people won't swallow. I would like that Sanji proves me wrong but let's be honest, it ain't happening.
@AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA I agree. I think suit modification may happen after Wano since as you say, it doesn't look like they will have time for it looking how the situation develops...
I am not denying that, but only stated weaker than Luffy though. Why else he continue rivalry on equal terms if he felt Zoro was stronger. Just saying.
Yeah, it seems like Moe doesnt understand what strongest means and his back up on them being equal is a non-canon cover page request.
About your first post, I realized I replied in latest chapter discussion with the same argument that Moe makes, the "majority"...
What ya mean non-canon? Their rivalry been canon since pre-timeskip. Gotta rematch the series if you can't accept that. Always been a issue wanting to prove yourself right even it leads to trouble *Cough*...Orojackson...*Cough*
What's wrong with majority? Like how they calling out a 'certain swordsman' on being fragile after his 'performance'? I agree .
The cover page request which you often mention, them beating each other in sleep, as a reason why they are equal, is not canon, since it is a request.
Never said their rivalry isnt canon, dont confuse things Moe-kun, however, their power levels got nothing to do with their rivalry since they will never fight outside a gag scenario.
Well it seems like MH isnt enough for you so you spread your cancer replies to OJ, Youtube and I bet other platforms but those two are where I found your headcanon. I have at least been banned for triggering Sanji's cancer squad, not for trying to prove myself right, get your facts right, while your are being recognized as troll poster in each platform where I saw you.
What do you expect from a guy who fanboys so much he's blinded himself a la Fujitora. Seeing anyone who doesn't agree with him as hater or hardcore fanboy of another character.
He's built a world of Fantasy in his sacred shrine akin to Katakuri's and will question everyone including Oda himself for not going along with his own reasoning.
• He'll accuse you of head cannon meanwhile he's the perpetrator.
• He misunderstands/misinterprets comments too often but will claim it the other way round.
• Everyone (not fanboying Sanji) is biased but he's an objective reader.
• He has the best prediction rate and very accurate predictions.
• He can't backup everything he claims to be factual and correct yet he's the victim.
The Godfather of One Piece and doting Foster dad of Sanji.
You just have to admire his burning passion even though it's channeled in the wrong direction.
PS: In case anyone calls me out. I mentioned nobody's name.
Coming from the guy who doubt Yonkos on how they are despite how powerful compare to others and think they are not 'deserving' of their titles lol. I bet you don't think Shanks is strong at all since we never seen him fully fought before with your logic. Nah, I don't question everyone, only biased debaters like yourself and certain others. Gotta learn to keep it fair if not, then be prepared to be question on your stance lol.
1. What headcannon? Defending Sanji on what he use RS for? How Big Mom and Kaido are proving their titles? Zoro didn't have greta performance as hype by Zoro fans like yourself? Yeah, call it headcannon while your in your imagination as you keep denying reality.
2. I only know a few, but your the only one misunderstanding me the most by thinking by my emotions like I am actually am xD. Judging by your post I guess I hit your nerve as why would you label things such as that.
3. Nah, I mention those who I agree with being Pea, Lexus, Eiyuu, Lightning, Hokageji, etc.. Though not gonna listen to you guys who have history on the thread bashing Sanji and praising Zoro as Zoro fans. Please, your fanboyism isn't the majority and it's this behavior why no one take Zoro fans seriously especially after last chapter XD.
4. Nah, I can still get them wrong, but my predictions so far on Zoro has been accurate, but not gonna be 100% thinking every idea or theory is going to happen still unlike you guys as you scream on how you know where Oda is going in every step into a bad direction even with Sanji when proven wrong again when he makes a chapter each moment .
5. I have backup my claims, you have never on yours and when I counter you, you and few others resort it's best to troll. Why you think I have others on my side against you on how you act. Not treating yourself in good grace at all, just saying, no hate, so don't confuse emotions into this like you do each post .
Nah, it always balance direction and I am man to admit mistakes when I do. Waiting for you though, but since you haven't I take it your still immature and yet to fully grown? It's alright. We been through that spot before, but just admit your at naïve stage and need help. We can lend you the way of being more diverse on opinion instead of one-sided nature you always been, don't fret .
Simply, there is a good portion of OP fans who are unsatisfied with Sanji's combat abilities and power level in general and that's being discussed.
It was specifically mentioned that Admirals are Marines' strongest force and duel from Aokiji and Akainu really has shown them to be equal.
Here, in this case, strongest is clearly used only for Zoro, no mention of Sanji and really pushing that idea of him being equal to Zoro is an idea that people won't swallow. I would like that Sanji proves me wrong but let's be honest, it ain't happening.
@AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA I agree. I think suit modification may happen after Wano since as you say, it doesn't look like they will have time for it looking how the situation develops...
Actually Sanji been doing better and majority are loving his performance, but right now are upset with Zoro getting one shot and been overhype for years and now seeing the truth of when Zoro fans overrate a character even when they try to hype him up at this point.
I respect both Zoro still, don't get me wrong, but after last chapter, sorry until Zoro redeem himself, to say he still 'stronger' one is hardly accurate as stronger one would be more durable than that to go down. Being honest about it, not trying to hide faults on character now.
I am not denying that, but only stated weaker than Luffy though. Why else he continue rivalry on equal terms if he felt Zoro was stronger. Just saying.
Mr Moe... The data book clearly states Zoro to be the strongest member of the Crew, after his captain.
Are you perhaps insinuating that Oda meant: "Zoro is one of the strongest after Luffy?"
Technically the word has been used like that in the series before. For example both Aokiji and Kizaru were called the strongest Marine, which seems to commonly apply to all Admirals. If you are going to mock someone, at least try to get the facts straight...
I don't recall them individually called the strongest marine. The only time they've been called the strongest Marines was when they were grouped together, IIRC.
But individually? I'm not sure.
I recall Aokiji being called the strongest man in marineford (not the strongest marine, mind you). But that could easily be because other Admirals weren't present at the time.
Can you perhaps link the panels were each of them were individually called the strongest marine?
I don't think Zoro was being grouped with anyone in the data book. It wasn't remotely implied. Just that he's the strongest after Luffy.
The cover page request which you often mention, them beating each other in sleep, as a reason why they are equal, is not canon, since it is a request.
Never said their rivalry isnt canon, dont confuse things Moe-kun, however, their power levels got nothing to do with their rivalry since they will never fight outside a gag scenario.
Well it seems like MH isnt enough for you so you spread your cancer replies to OJ, Youtube and I bet other platforms but those two are where I found your headcanon. I have at least been banned for triggering Sanji's cancer squad, not for trying to prove myself right, get your facts right, while your are being recognized as troll poster in each platform where I saw you.
You do realize Oda can pick and choose which request he wants, right? Why pick that one? Because he knows he made the rivalry as it is. Idk where you been reading OP for the last 20+ years it been around, but Oda is the one who brought in the rivalry since Sanji came in the crew. They do compete outside of gag as shown with their opponents and still do to this day.
Not cancer, just you don't have people skills to interact like a normal person to agree to disagree, but instead you troll to mess with others and get ban for it. I seen their ban process on others, they are understanding just like here, so you had to do something pretty 'outrageous' to get permanent ban, so you shouldn't hide form your mistakes. Just saying as a friend to grow for the better, not for the same or worse .
I don't act out like you do on my platforms. I am more understanding on situations and don't try to poke the bear more until something happen. Just saying friendly advice on how to get better on your side, nothing emotional in my post.
Mr Moe... The data book clearly states Zoro to be the strongest member of the Crew, after his captain.
Are you perhaps insinuating that Oda meant: "Zoro is one of the strongest after Luffy?"
I don't recall them individually called the strongest marine. The only time they've been called the strongest Marines was when they were grouped together, IIRC.
But individually? I'm not sure.
I recall Aokiji being called the strongest man in marineford (not the strongest marine, mind you). But that could easily be because others weren't present at the time.
Can you perhaps link the panels were each of them were individually called the strongest marine?
Agree to disagree, Kcd. I respect your opinion, but you have to be honest it's hard to see Zoro as 'stronger' one after last chapter when we know Sanji would never go down in a fight like that even pushed. Until Oda insert it in the manga, still equals (Or at least Sanji is stronger one as many been saying since last chapter out of Zoro's weak durability) with each other.
Agree to disagree, Kcd. I respect your opinion, but you have to be honest it's hard to see Zoro as 'stronger' one after last chapter when we know Sanji would never go down in a fight like that even pushed. Until Oda insert it in the manga, still equals (Or at least Sanji is stronger one as many been saying since last chapter out of Zoro's weak durability) with each other.
to say he still 'stronger' one is hardly accurate as stronger one would be more durable than that to go down. Being honest about it, not trying to hide faults on character now.
The fight between them is always a gag so power level makes no difference. Even weakling Usopp is equal to Luffy in gag fights. So weak Sanji can always be equal to Zoro in gag fights.
Not cancer, just you don't have people skills to interact like a normal person to agree to disagree, but instead you troll to mess with others and get ban for it. I seen their ban process on others, they are understanding just like here, so you had to do something pretty 'outrageous' to get permanent ban, so you shouldn't hide form your mistakes. Just saying as a friend to grow for the better, not for the same or worse .
I don't act out like you do on my platforms. I am more understanding on situations and don't try to poke the bear more until something happen. Just saying friendly advice on how to get better on your side, nothing emotional in my post.
No, you spread the same cancer on every platform that I saw you on and repeat the same toxic posts. I have screenshots of it. Do you need proof of it or your memory serves you right?
Coming from the guy who doubt Yonkos on how they are despite how powerful compare to others and think they are not 'deserving' of their titles lol. I bet you don't think Shanks is strong at all since we never seen him fully fought before with your logic.
If you can still say this after all I've said regarding the Yonko, then I've lost faith in you dude.
Where does your head leads you every time you read a comment? Are the infos too much for you to digest or are you so engrossed in various debates that you totally forget what people say in previous posts and mix things up altogether?
Corrections mate. I'm no Zoro fan nor Sanji's. I derive my conclusions based on what I've read/watched from the author's work not plain fanboyism.
There's so much character to enjoy so I don't get to be loyal to any single character.
Even Blackbeard and Akainu (whom I dislike based on story portrayal) are interesting characters for me as I get to enjoy wholesomely the work of a genius.
Naturally I see a lot of the MC so he gets the most of my attention (obviously) but I don't fanboy. Ever!
I bash on whomsoever I wish and praise whomsoever again based on author's portrayal.
I don't know if someone like you who created a world of fantasy for himself can understand where I'm coming from but I bet there are people on the thread who do.
I know better than to get emotional over simple debates involving things I do for recreation.
Moreover someone with your reasoning can't hit my neuron much less a nerve. You'd only crack me up at best.
Can't you tell? It's why I like picking on you often. I get to laugh whenever you post a comment.
Many of the same people that use the quote that "Zoro is the strongest crew member after the captain" as evidence for Zoro>Sanji are the same ones that like to argue that Zoro is stronger than Luffy.
We need a chapter asap, y'all acting petty as fuck and all sound like broken records lol