One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[King Moe]

Sanji is equal to Zoro in your imagination only.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 22, 2019 ---

how do you know that Mihawk is helpless without a sword? he is full of surprises too.

No, it's a clear facts as you see interactions and how they compete. Oda see and make them equals. Plus you can't expect many to still think Zoro he is 'VERY' up there after his latest fight. He need retraining on his body for sure. It's imagination on your side thinking Zoro is still stronger one of the duo. No hate or biased. Just going by how Oda set them up in series.

He probably can defend, but until it shown, he isn't good hand to hand as many never said he skill in that. Just swordsmanship. Until Oda shows it, we can discuss more, but nothing shows he is capable fighting without his weapon much thus far.

 

[afromarco005]

No, it's a clear facts as you see interactions and how they compete. Oda see and make them equals. Plus you can't expect many to still think Zoro he is 'VERY' up there after his latest fight. He need retraining on his body for sure. It's imagination on your side thinking Zoro is still stronger one of the duo. No hate or biased. Just going by how Oda set them up in series.

He probably can defend, but until it shown, he isn't good hand to hand as many never said he skill in that. Just swordsmanship. Until Oda shows it, we can discuss more, but nothing shows he is capable fighting without his weapon much thus far.

AS its been stated here countless times Oda himself said that Zoro>Sanji, they are not equals. Deal with it.

Thats bad logic, you assume that shanks has many unshown attacks and is super polyvalent without any evidence, but for mihawk you need proof? Shanks has shown nothing stop being a fanboy.

 

[King Moe]

AS its been stated here countless times Oda himself said that Zoro>Sanji, they are not equals. Deal with it.

Thats bad logic, you assume that shanks has many unshown attacks and is super polyvalent without any evidence, but for mihawk you need proof? Shanks has shown nothing stop being a fanboy.

Databooks once said Luffy and Zoro were equals and now it said Zoro is weaker than him. Changes can happen. If it can go like that then possible he can still sees Sanji and Zoro are equals as he never explicated shown whose tougher in confrontation. Don't get so upset over this. Remember the mods tell us not to get emotional with posts and keep things clear.

Shanks shown and its heavily hinted he can fight without a weapon especially how insane his Haki is as stated by many. Mihawk doesn't have much on that and majorly praise for swordsmanship with no hint by no one saying he is great without his weapon. Name me a source where Mihawk was ever hinted to be dangerously strong even without his sword as I seen many chapters about him and many just said he is great swordsman with no hint on if he is as strong weaponless.

Not bad logic, just your misunderstanding on how I judge them.

 

[afromarco005]

Databooks once said Luffy and Zoro were equals and now it said Zoro is weaker than him. Changes can happen. If it can go like that then possible he can still sees Sanji and Zoro are equals as he never explicated shown whose tougher in confrontation. Don't get so upset over this. Remember the mods tell us not to get emotional with posts and keep things clear.

Shanks shown and its heavily hinted he can fight without a weapon especially how insane his Haki is as stated by many. Mihawk doesn't have much on that and majorly praise for swordsmanship with no hint by no one saying he is great without his weapon. Name me a source where Mihawk was ever hinted to be dangerously strong even without his sword as I seen many chapters about him and many just said he is great swordsman with no hint on if he is as strong weaponless.

Not bad logic, just your misunderstanding on how I judge them.

"Heavily inted" please provide pannels or source otherwise this is just your headcanon.

 

[King Moe]

"Heavily inted" please provide pannels or source otherwise this is just your headcanon.

Not going to if your going to act out like this. Don't want pointless debating after mods warn us. Also you didn't answer my question on finding evidence where it's stated Mihawk can fight without his blade or been referred to fight without weapons and just as strong in hand to hand combat.

 

[XXGenesis]

wait..So Zoro, has been using this repeling haki, on a small scale. everytime he cuts metal...huh ODA??

I guess it's not too far fetched, since The Boa Sisters & Fat dude used the technoqie.. But still, it's just so weird. I wonder if a swordsman flying slash is under the same mechanics...

 

[afromarco005]

Not going to if your going to act out like this. Don't want pointless debating after mods warn us. Also you didn't answer my question on finding evidence where it's stated Mihawk can fight without his blade or been referred to fight without weapons and just as strong in hand to hand combat.

You claim that it's "heavily inted" that Shanks can do more than swordsmanship so the burden of proof falls upon you.

This is just common sense, it has nothing to do with the fact that you are right or wrong.

 

[I Am Atomic]

I am joining in on the Zoro Vs Sanji debate.

From what I understood, Oda always represented Zoro and Sanji as rivals, so basically close in strength. However, as time progresses we see that Zoro always gets tougher opponents compared to Sanji. Mr1>Mr2 and Kaku>Jabra. However, the injuries sustained by Zoro was higher as well, so I thought them as equal in strength. There is also the frequent skirmish between them, further proving them equal in strength.

This changed in Thriller Bark. Sanji wasn't able to do anything to Kumar, but Zoro was. Zoro was also the one who took all the pain and not Sanji. This way I saw Zoro's superiority.

Sabaondy Archipelago, supernovas were introduced and Sanji wasn't in it. I know the supernovas were thought of out of the blue but still Sanji would have been in it if his bounty was close to Zoro. Another superior trait.

Zoro Vs CD incident. Most supernovas were genuinely scared of what Zoro was about to do. That way they all remember him. Urogue was even impressed. However, none of them even know Sanji. Later on, Luffy thrashed the same CD.

After TS, we see that Zoro+Sanji take on Pacifista and beat it. Again I thought they were equal in strength.

This was disproven after incidents in PH, Dressrossa and WCI. Then it actually made sense as to why Sanji was weaker after TS. Zoro and Luffy had legends teaching them, while Sanji had no teacher. Zoro and Luffy was training to fight, while Sanji was training to cook. So wouldn't it be weird if Sanji was strong as Zoro? It means Zoro has shit talent? So it is acceptable.

However, now it's completely different. Sanji has the raidsuit and higher bounty than Zoro. Jinbei has also joined the crew. To keep the monster trio name intact, Oda would have made sure Sanji is strong as Zoro right now.

In conclusion, in the current part of the story, I believe that Zoro is only slightly ahead in strength now.

P.s. I don't know why Sanji fans are upset if Sanji is weaker than Zoro. Zoro is a genuine fighter while Sanji is mainly a cook and his second trait is to fight.

 

[M3J]

yeah you are right. my bad.

oh nice, I remembered something accurately even though I've read this arc a lot

wait..So Zoro, has been using this repeling haki, on a small scale. everytime he cuts metal...huh ODA??

I guess it's not too far fetched, since The Boa Sisters & Fat dude used the technoqie.. But still, it's just so weird. I wonder if a swordsman flying slash is under the same mechanics...

I don't think that's haki, just Zoro's own strength

I am joining in on the Zoro Vs Sanji debate.

From what I understood, Oda always represented Zoro and Sanji as rivals, so basically close in strength. However, as time progresses we see that Zoro always gets tougher opponents compared to Sanji. Mr1>Mr2 and Kaku>Jabra. However, the injuries sustained by Zoro was higher as well, so I thought them as equal in strength. There is also the frequent skirmish between them, further proving them equal in strength.

This changed in Thriller Bark. Sanji wasn't able to do anything to Kumar, but Zoro was. Zoro was also the one who took all the pain and not Sanji. This way I saw Zoro's superiority.

Sabaondy Archipelago, supernovas were introduced and Sanji wasn't in it. I know the supernovas were thought of out of the blue but still Sanji would have been in it if his bounty was close to Zoro. Another superior trait.

Zoro Vs CD incident. Most supernovas were genuinely scared of what Zoro was about to do. That way they all remember him. Urogue was even impressed. However, none of them even know Sanji. Later on, Luffy thrashed the same CD.

After TS, we see that Zoro+Sanji take on Pacifista and beat it. Again I thought they were equal in strength.

This was disproven after incidents in PH, Dressrossa and WCI. Then it actually made sense as to why Sanji was weaker after TS. Zoro and Luffy had legends teaching them, while Sanji had no teacher. Zoro and Luffy was training to fight, while Sanji was training to cook. So wouldn't it be weird if Sanji was strong as Zoro? It means Zoro has shit talent? So it is acceptable.

However, now it's completely different. Sanji has the raidsuit and higher bounty than Zoro. Jinbei has also joined the crew. To keep the monster trio name intact, Oda would have made sure Sanji is strong as Zoro right now.

In conclusion, in the current part of the story, I believe that Zoro is only slightly ahead in strength now.

P.s. I don't know why Sanji fans are upset if Sanji is weaker than Zoro. Zoro is a genuine fighter while Sanji is mainly a cook and his second trait is to fight.

For argument's sake I shall respond.

Zoro usually took on swordsmen while Sanji took on hand-to-hand fighters. Kinda unfair to compare both on their opponents, especially since Sanji's established as someone who refuses to fight with hands.

Zoro had a bounty around the same time as Luffy and was already known as a bounty hunter even prior to joining Luffy. I think he and Luffy got bounties because they attacked a Marine after Arlong was beaten? If anything, this speaks volumes about how lowkey Sanji is but still contributes. If that doesn't make sense, then think of Impel Down and how Sanji ducked out of the fight to close the gate, which saved the crew.

Sanji is also a fighter, and he and Zoro were the only Straw Hats awake when Kuma exploded the area. Sanji was also training his legs though, not just learning to cook. As he fights with his legs, he had to make his legs even stronger, and that was achieved by running as hard and long as possible and even learning to skywalk.

 

[King Moe]

You claim that it's "heavily inted" that Shanks can do more than swordsmanship so the burden of proof falls upon you.

This is just common sense, it has nothing to do with the fact that you are right or wrong.

Cause Shanks' Haki have been said to be insane lvl that it been talk about many times and it's weird they don't talk as much on his swordsmanship as much. Which means it's heavily hinted he can fight without a weapon more if he is very experience with all 3 Haki Types while Mihawk so far we know he know about his combatness is just swordsmanship and nothing more. Sure he has Haki, but we don't know to say how experience he can fight someone hand to hand. If it was so, they would have said something about it by now, but instead more on his swordsmanship, so until we see more proof on him and as well Zoro on fighting someone serious and can handle them without weapons, nothing said they can be great physical fighters without weapons like Luffy, Sanji, Shanks (possibly), and so on.

 

[hokageji]

A lot of Zoro vs Sanji has to do with the appeal. Any line you draw on strengths is gonna be biased simply because Oda offers on quantifiable evidence to compare the two.

Sure, Zoro beat Kaku but Jabra was just 20 points behind him. I am happy to believe Zoro is stronger than Sanji, because its not strength of Sanji thats the base of his character...

 

[King Moe]

I am joining in on the Zoro Vs Sanji debate.

From what I understood, Oda always represented Zoro and Sanji as rivals, so basically close in strength. However, as time progresses we see that Zoro always gets tougher opponents compared to Sanji. Mr1>Mr2 and Kaku>Jabra. However, the injuries sustained by Zoro was higher as well, so I thought them as equal in strength. There is also the frequent skirmish between them, further proving them equal in strength.

This changed in Thriller Bark. Sanji wasn't able to do anything to Kumar, but Zoro was. Zoro was also the one who took all the pain and not Sanji. This way I saw Zoro's superiority.

Sabaondy Archipelago, supernovas were introduced and Sanji wasn't in it. I know the supernovas were thought of out of the blue but still Sanji would have been in it if his bounty was close to Zoro. Another superior trait.

Zoro Vs CD incident. Most supernovas were genuinely scared of what Zoro was about to do. That way they all remember him. Urogue was even impressed. However, none of them even know Sanji. Later on, Luffy thrashed the same CD.

After TS, we see that Zoro+Sanji take on Pacifista and beat it. Again I thought they were equal in strength.

This was disproven after incidents in PH, Dressrossa and WCI. Then it actually made sense as to why Sanji was weaker after TS. Zoro and Luffy had legends teaching them, while Sanji had no teacher. Zoro and Luffy was training to fight, while Sanji was training to cook. So wouldn't it be weird if Sanji was strong as Zoro? It means Zoro has shit talent? So it is acceptable.

However, now it's completely different. Sanji has the raidsuit and higher bounty than Zoro. Jinbei has also joined the crew. To keep the monster trio name intact, Oda would have made sure Sanji is strong as Zoro right now.

In conclusion, in the current part of the story, I believe that Zoro is only slightly ahead in strength now.

P.s. I don't know why Sanji fans are upset if Sanji is weaker than Zoro. Zoro is a genuine fighter while Sanji is mainly a cook and his second trait is to fight.

He still continue onwards and even now. What do you mean it's over or there is huge gap cause after last chapter, many have fallen on seeing Zoro way ahead or even above Sanji who despite his struggles never fainted from a fight. Zoro's durability kinda been tarnished hard after that last fight, so we can't use pre-timeskip as proof much anymore if he is unable to take a weapon pierce yet he could tank Luffy's pain before. He needs to get stronger just as everyone else. Nothing have ever shown Zoro was beyond capabilities especially comparing their NW opponents, Sanji had more legit threats while Zoro got easy targets on his end. Nothing shown that he could have defeated or taken the enemies Sanji taken with ease or defeated them at all.

Right now on latest accomplishments, Sanji is in the lead on performance more than Zoro especially how WCI and Wano help him take on threats to hold his own while defeating credible ones like Page One easily. If we going by that on performance on who they beat, then Sanji is stronger than him already even without RS as he still can do damage in a fight and we never really seen him at his 100% to be honest.

While Sanji is a cook yes, doesn't mean he stop being a fighter nor does it mean RS will be how he fights only as he flexible on fighting any on his style, so don't think it mean anything on Sanji being weaker and Jimbei again has no feats on NW to said he is above or within Monster Trio status. He need more to say where to put him, but can say after Zoro's latest performance, Jimbei could take his spot if the guy can't be durable like he used to be in tanking stuff as at least Jimbei was able to withstand being cut by Big Mom compare to Zoro who can't take a stab.

However, honestly and of the day Luffy, Sanji, and Zoro are forever Monster Trio as it won't change just because they get strong allies as Oda usually see them together and next to each other when talking about top fighters in Strawhat Crew and Sanji and Zoro having rivalry with each other that continues even today and onward as well. Nothing gonna change that for Oda as he still pushing this factors even to this day.

 

[M3J]

Zoro's usually had a more impressive showing than Sanji tbh

 

[King Moe]

A lot of Zoro vs Sanji has to do with the appeal. Any line you draw on strengths is gonna be biased simply because Oda offers on quantifiable evidence to compare the two.

Sure, Zoro beat Kaku but Jabra was just 20 points behind him. I am happy to believe Zoro is stronger than Sanji, because its not strength of Sanji thats the base of his character...

If it was 20 points difference, both could have taken each other's opponents as I doubt that means they were far apart in power at all. Oda pushing heavily factor of them equals since their first fight and their opponents since then (Some of the opponents) when comparing them. Which is why fanbase are foreshadowing them taking on King and Queen due to their personalities similar and rivalry like theirs too as when there is equal beings on enemy side fighting like them, they are destined to fight them (Though still see Zoro vs Orochi final fight as with his plot with Hiyori and last fight, hard to see him taking King without EXTREME struggle).

 

[hokageji]

Just to be clear, i am talking about Doriki...

Lucci was 4000
Kaku was 2200
Jabra was 2180

I dont like to use this as evidence of strengths but it is evidence that Zoro and Sanji fought people who are nearly the same level of strength.

@King Moe
I am not convinceed Sanji will take down King yet, still think Zoro seems a suitable opponent to him. How do we know that Queen will even survive Mama's attacks? Or for that matter Luffy will not take him down?

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Just to be clear, i am talking about Doriki...

Lucci was 4000
Kaku was 2200
Jabra was 2180

I dont like to use this as evidence of strengths but it is evidence that Zoro and Sanji fought people who are nearly the same level of strength.

@King Moe
I am not convinceed Sanji will take down King yet, still think Zoro seems a suitable opponent to him. How do we know that Queen will even survive Mama's attacks? Or for that matter Luffy will not take him down?

And to be fair Sanji had less struggle against Jabra compared to Zoro vs Kaku. 20 doriki points is negligible. Plus Jabra had more experience with his fruit.

I'm not saying Sanji = Zoro though. I think that power level wise they are somewhat comparable. But back then at least, in that one arc, they were equally strong in my opinion.

If I were to gauge their power level now I'd say if Luffy is 100, then Zoro is 90 and Sanji is 84 or something.

 

[hokageji]

And to be fair Sanji had less struggle against Jabra compared to Zoro vs Kaku. 20 doriki points is negligible. Plus Jabra had more experience with his fruit.

I'm not saying Sanji = Zoro though. I think that power level wise they are somewhat comparable. But back then at least, in that one arc, they were equally strong in my opinion.

If I were to gauge their power level now I'd say if Luffy is 100, then Zoro is 90 and Sanji is 84 or something.

Exactly, well said... Anyways, atleast till pre timeskip, it holds true.

I would say 88 for Sanji, but 4 points wont make or break it. The point is Luffy Zoro gap >> Zoro Sanji gap...


Post timeskip, its hard to gauge simply because Sanji's not gotten a chance. Zoro has and showcased that he's stronger and till then Zoro sanji gap has increased is fair to assume. I wont count Raid Suit because i personally want to believe he is gonna give it away to Nami.

 

[M3J]

Honestly, we should look at it like this: can Sanji beat Zoro's opponents? Can Zoro beat Sanji's opponents? Why or why not? I'd say throw Luffy into the mix as well.

Zoro can beat Sanji's opponents because of his swords; it'd take a swordsman or a haki user to deal with Zoro. Luffy can also beat Sanji's opponents because Sanji's opponents are usually hand-to-hand combatants of some sort, and Luffy can deal with that.

Sanji likely can't beat Zoro's opponents without swords/knives or superior CoA to the opponents because of swords, unless he can get around the swords to land damage. Likewise Luffy can't either without swords or haki unless they're normal (to a degree) like the swordsfishman that Zoro faced on Fishman Island.

Sanji and Zoro can't deal with Luffy's opponents mainly because they don't have a devil fruit or his devil fruit, and in pre-timeskip, CoA and/or CoO. Luffy's been either saved by his fruit or was given an advantage because of his fruit.

 

[King Moe]

Just to be clear, i am talking about Doriki...

Lucci was 4000
Kaku was 2200
Jabra was 2180

I dont like to use this as evidence of strengths but it is evidence that Zoro and Sanji fought people who are nearly the same level of strength.

@King Moe
I am not convinceed Sanji will take down King yet, still think Zoro seems a suitable opponent to him. How do we know that Queen will even survive Mama's attacks? Or for that matter Luffy will not take him down?

Sanji is only one taken down someone formidable being Page One. If a T6H couldn't make Sanji struggle, a YC being Queen or King are his future.

He will. I don't Mama will get best exchange while Amnesia. Don't think she go down, but could be trick and captured easily by Queen and others due to her state atm.

 

[hokageji]

Sanji is only one taken down someone formidable being Page One. If a T6H couldn't make Sanji struggle, a YC being Queen or King are his future.

I already addressed why i dont want to gauge his strength from that fight.....

I wont count Raid Suit because i personally want to believe he is gonna give it away to Nami.

Its a personal opinon so i am not claiming he's right, just that i dont wanna use that to gauge his strength.

an Sanji beat Zoro's opponents? Can Zoro beat Sanji's opponents?

How about ZOro vs Buggy?