Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

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OtterBrigade

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Wasn't Gintama dropped around the time the manga bubble burst (basically killing Tokyo Pop)? They probably did drop it due to sales (since stuff like Reborn and Ichigo 100% don't really have translation issues and were also dropped at the same time)
 

Aeneas

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Wasn't Gintama dropped around the time the manga bubble burst (basically killing Tokyo Pop)? They probably did drop it due to sales (since stuff like Reborn and Ichigo 100% don't really have translation issues and were also dropped at the same time)
Not familiar with that bubble, but it says the last one they released was in 2011.
 

costicla

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So, David did end. Bummed about that. Since people in Japan actually seemed to like it, I wonder if an anime could have somehow helped the series. I think there was an anime about famous sculptures a few years ago, although I don't know well that did. Oh well, guess we will never know.
 

Rain Spectre

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I'd personally think the fact that Jump has lost literally all of its gag manga is more cause for discussion than David ending, IMO.
 

tirakai

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I'm a little surprised they didn't have one stick around purely so that they weren't completely missing any gag manga that weren't romcoms (though I guess David was a romcom too come to think of it). Especially since there's no new gag manga this batch either.
 

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That I agree with, I have no idea what MHA is trying to be anymore it feels like it lacks direction, but anyways reading Sam8 chapter and my issues with the art are still there, wont go into detail of the story though until the official release.
If someone told me three years ago that I'd be liking Black Clover more than My Hero Academia I'd have thought they were insane. I don't think Horikoshi has had any idea what he's doing for a long time now.
Meanwhile Tabata has turned not knowing what the fuck he's doing into a genuinely enjoyable roller coaster. Went from being my most hated Jump series ever to one I look forward to reading every week. Crazy.
It's pretty obvious that Horikoshi knows what he's doing (even if he's not doing it that well) - plot buildup, character development and sometimes, purposly slow down the manga.
Unlike Naruto, in which after a several point new "final" villians were introduced once/before the last one was defeated, in MHA the final villian was shown in the first 20 chapters. It isn't just the hero's story, it is also the villian's.
Hori also said that he knows the general outline of the story, and how the final battle will play out, so I assume that many things that now seem pointless will be important in the long run, we still have a lot of plot points that aren't resolved - the UA traitor, Hawks' involvment with the LoV, the anti-quirk bullets, Deku's flashback/dreams, AFO held in Tartarus etc.
What seems to me is that while Hori knows (generally) how to get from point A to B, he hasn't planned fully how to do it in a satisfactory manner, so many times he has to slow down, add SoL chapters etc, to think about how to write things ahead.
 

Rain Spectre

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I'm a little surprised they didn't have one stick around purely so that they weren't completely missing any gag manga that weren't romcoms (though I guess David was a romcom too come to think of it). Especially since there's no new gag manga this batch either.
That may be indicative of editorial giving up, I think. Let's face it, when you launch two gag manga with literally zero competition, give them both over six months to grow an audience, give one an anime even, and still fail to generate a profit, the question comes in if gag manga is really worth anything to the current audience. That's how I see it, anyway.

In way, I don't even think people want a new Gintama (which, lets face it, is the sort of comedy which really can stand with the rest of the Jump roster), it's kind of a manga which's existence is virtually impossible to replicate.

It's pretty obvious that Horikoshi knows what he's doing (even if he's not doing it that well) - plot buildup, character development and sometimes, purposly slow down the manga.
Unlike Naruto, in which after a several point new "final" villians were introduced once/before the last one was defeated, in MHA the final villian was shown in the first 20 chapters. It isn't just the hero's story, it is also the villian's.
Hori also said that he knows the general outline of the story, and how the final battle will play out, so I assume that many things that now seem pointless will be important in the long run, we still have a lot of plot points that aren't resolved - the UA traitor, Hawks' involvment with the LoV, the anti-quirk bullets, Deku's flashback/dreams, AFO held in Tartarus etc.
What seems to me is that while Hori knows (generally) how to get from point A to B, he hasn't planned fully how to do it in a satisfactory manner, so many times he has to slow down, add SoL chapters etc, to think about how to write things ahead.
I mean, if you're a writer...that's basically common sense.
 
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supercow297

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It's pretty obvious that Horikoshi knows what he's doing (even if he's not doing it that well) - plot buildup, character development and sometimes, purposly slow down the manga.
Unlike Naruto, in which after a several point new "final" villians were introduced once/before the last one was defeated, in MHA the final villian was shown in the first 20 chapters. It isn't just the hero's story, it is also the villian's.
Hori also said that he knows the general outline of the story, and how the final battle will play out, so I assume that many things that now seem pointless will be important in the long run, we still have a lot of plot points that aren't resolved - the UA traitor, Hawks' involvment with the LoV, the anti-quirk bullets, Deku's flashback/dreams, AFO held in Tartarus etc.
What seems to me is that while Hori knows (generally) how to get from point A to B, he hasn't planned fully how to do it in a satisfactory manner, so many times he has to slow down, add SoL chapters etc, to think about how to write things ahead.
"It's pretty obvious that Horikoshi knows what he's doing (even if he's not doing it that well)...he hasn't planned fully how to do it in a satisfactory manner"

So you're saying he doesn't know what he's doing?
 

Rain Spectre

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"It's pretty obvious that Horikoshi knows what he's doing (even if he's not doing it that well)...he hasn't planned fully how to do it in a satisfactory manner"

So you're saying he doesn't know what he's doing?
Not really? When you're writing, you should generally have an idea of every major turn, but how exactly every beat goes is something which comes with circumstance.
 

supercow297

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Not really? When you're writing, you should generally have an idea of every major turn, but how exactly every beat goes is something which comes with circumstance.
I can see where you're coming from, but Horikoshi's writing is so poor it's like saying, I know I have to get from the U.S. to Korea, I'll do that by crossing all the streets in that direction only when the streetlights turn red. And since he knows the general direction so it's okay.

I maintain that he doesn't know what he's doing.
 

Ctkk

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I'm about 25 or so chapters behind Black Clover at the moment so I need to catch up again. Hearing good things.

MHA has for sure been giving off a weird vibe to me for a while. Definitely like this arc a hell of a lot more than the previous 1A-1B arc though. Although I'll admit that while a villain vs villian arc sounded cool at first, it's not as grand as I was anticipating. I enjoy the focus on the LoV quite a lot actually, but the Liberation Army are just starting to come off as blatant stepping stones for the LoV(more so than Overhaul ever did). Hoping I'll be wrong in the end, and something unexpected happens.
Well, MHA has never really tried to go out of its way to be grand and epic(which admittedly is kinda weird for the genre). Even All Might vs AfO was more about what it personally meant for them than the actual stakes of the conflict. Same for Endeavor in Pro Hero and now with the LoV. Almost every single arc is more an excuse to develop some character or another. It's always been a very character-driven story. The plot barely exists. It's never really gone beyond ''there are some bad guys plotting nefarious stuff''. There's also no serial escalation. There's no clear power level system to tell us whether any given situation is more dangerous than the last. Instead, every arc gives us its own stakes and explains why they're important and we should be invested(save Bakugo, get a license, save Eri, Eri's smile), even if they aren't so big in the grand scheme of things. An unique structure for sure.

So I think Horikoshi knows very well what he's doing (It's not hard to see what A vs B was trying to accomplish: Fully introduce Class-B and show what their deal is, set up Shinsho to join the hero course, give some focus to many 1-A characters after a very long time of staying in the background and of course the whole deal with OfA, which, like it or not, is one of the most important things to ever happen in the manga. Whether the execution was good is a separate discussion, but there was a point to the arc). It's just that what he's doing is not some quest to save the world from evil, it's the story of a kid learning to be a superhero.
 

Scruffy8642

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That may be indicative of editorial giving up, I think. Let's face it, when you launch two gag manga with literally zero competition, give them both over six months to grow an audience, give one an anime even, and still fail to generate a profit, the question comes in if gag manga is really worth anything to the current audience. That's how I see it, anyway.

In way, I don't even think people want a new Gintama (which, lets face it, is the sort of comedy which really can stand with the rest of the Jump roster), it's kind of a manga which's existence is virtually impossible to replicate.
I don't think they've really tried in a long time when it comes to comedy. Probably because they had Kochikame, Gintama, Saiki & Isobee that were all so solid for so long, but all ended within such a short period of each other.

David was always more of a romcom than anything, so I think it fits into that niche better, even if it was marketed as a gag. And Japan was trying something very specific that was a significant gamble, so it's really not a surprise it got nowhere. Either way, that's only two series. They really have to start like 3x that to hope to get one that resonates with people. That's how Jump has always been with all genres.

As far as recent comedies go, we had Conquer You (2018 25), Lycopene (2017 45), Hungry Marie (2017 13), Spring Weapon (2016 46), Samon (2015 43) & I'm unsure on what Devilyman was? (2015 26). Maybe a few others that are arguable what genre they actually are, but it's still only like 2 a year from the last 4 years, and they only really started losing competition from late 2017 onwards. The current situation is just part of the cycle honestly, and this is the beginning of a new era for the genre in the magazine. Comedy is a staple, and as such, there will always be something that resonates with people, they just have to find what. Most of us here do want a good new comedy for the magazine, and I'm sure that's true for the majority of their audience as well.
 

Rain Spectre

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I don't think they've really tried in a long time when it comes to comedy. Probably because they had Kochikame, Gintama, Saiki & Isobee that were all so solid for so long, but all ended within such a short period of each other.

David was always more of a romcom than anything, so I think it fits into that niche better, even if it was marketed as a gag. And Japan was trying something very specific that was a significant gamble, so it's really not a surprise it got nowhere. Either way, that's only two series. They really have to start like 3x that to hope to get one that resonates with people. That's how Jump has always been with all genres.

As far as recent comedies go, we had Conquer You (2018 25), Lycopene (2017 45), Hungry Marie (2017 13), Spring Weapon (2016 46), Samon (2015 43) & I'm unsure on what Devilyman was? (2015 26). Maybe a few others that are arguable what genre they actually are, but it's still only like 2 a year from the last 4 years, and they only really started losing competition from late 2017 onwards. The current situation is just part of the cycle honestly, and this is the beginning of a new era for the genre in the magazine. Comedy is a staple, and as such, there will always be something that resonates with people, they just have to find what. Most of us here do want a good new comedy for the magazine, and I'm sure that's true for the majority of their audience as well.
You forgot Seiji Tanaka. Overall, though, there's just been nine/ten in the last five years.

The troublesome matter there then is if Jump can really afford to try testing the grounds for more gag manga. They're in a position where they're ending three established series in the next six months, and another three in the next twelve. You need replacements for those, and gag historically is not the sort of thing which generates huge numbers (the exceptions are Kochikame and Dr Slump, but those are from radically different times). So the genre is stuck in a tough position, trying to get more hits when the other genres are the stuff which financially have more merit. The faster pace of current Jump doesn't really help.

I dunno, I guess Kochikame leaving really did a hole in the heart of the magazine. It feels like, once it left, the dominoes for comedy as a stable pillar of Jump all fell at once.
 
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Ctkk

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You forgot Seiji Tanaka. Overall, though, there's just been nine/ten in the last five years.

The troublesome matter there then is if Jump can really afford to try testing the grounds for more gag manga. They're in a position where they're ending three established series in the next six months, and another three in the next twelve. You need replacements for those, and gag historically is not the sort of thing which generates huge numbers (the exceptions are Kochikame and Dr Slump, but those are from radically different times). So the genre is stuck in a tough position, trying to get more hits when the other genres are the stuff which financially have more merit. I dunno, maybe there's a way to make it work, but I can't think of one off the top of my head.
Have Toriyama return with a gag manga.
 

Rain Spectre

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Have Toriyama return with a gag manga.
That joke would be funnier if Jaco didn't exist and provide Toriyama with his formal retirement from manga.
 

Xzone

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Well, MHA has never really tried to go out of its way to be grand and epic(which admittedly is kinda weird for the genre). Even All Might vs AfO was more about what it personally meant for them than the actual stakes of the conflict. Same for Endeavor in Pro Hero and now with the LoV. Almost every single arc is more an excuse to develop some character or another. It's always been a very character-driven story. The plot barely exists. It's never really gone beyond ''there are some bad guys plotting nefarious stuff''. There's also no serial escalation. There's no clear power level system to tell us whether any given situation is more dangerous than the last. Instead, every arc gives us its own stakes and explains why they're important and we should be invested(save Bakugo, get a license, save Eri, Eri's smile), even if they aren't so big in the grand scheme of things. An unique structure for sure.

So I think Horikoshi knows very well what he's doing (It's not hard to see what A vs B was trying to accomplish: Fully introduce Class-B and show what their deal is, set up Shinsho to join the hero course, give some focus to many 1-A characters after a very long time of staying in the background and of course the whole deal with OfA, which, like it or not, is one of the most important things to ever happen in the manga. Whether the execution was good is a separate discussion, but there was a point to the arc). It's just that what he's doing is not some quest to save the world from evil, it's the story of a kid learning to be a superhero.
Yeah, both kimetsu and MHA are like that, their arcs is more about the character.
But in MHA pre-AfOvsAllMight and Kimetsu reader think is more "Hype" because they have a big bad(Muzan and AfO).
 

Rain Spectre

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Yeah, both kimetsu and MHA are like that, their arcs is more about the character.
But in MHA pre-AfOvsAllMight and Kimetsu reader think is more "Hype" because they have a big bad(Muzan and AfO).
Jujutsu and most Black Clover arcs bar the Elf Invasion feel more character based as well. It's pretty much the norm for battle manga nowadays.
 

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