Discussion The Holy war

[Estarossa173]

As far as I can see, the SD is the lesser evil when compared to the DK.

 

[Undina]

It's the child's fault not mine so I'll torture as much as I want

--- Double Post Merged, May 30, 2019, Original Post Date: May 30, 2019 ---

Good and evil, such concepts do not exist for the strong, it's only for the weaklings.
Neither DK or SD are bad as they're beings of power, it's only them who will decide

Ok, your posts are heading in a direction that will likely get them deleted, best case scenario! Good and Evil exist, that's why our planet is rife with religions and mythologies where there are deities on each side!

 

[Samael Morningstar]

Ok, your posts are heading in a direction that will likely get them deleted, best case scenario! Good and Evil exist, that's why our planet is rife with religions and mythologies where there are deities on each side!

Why do you even know something is good and evil......... That's because the deities decide so and they are beings of power they decide just like that in this manga SD and DK are beings of power that's why they will decide what's good and bad

 

[Undina]

Why do you even know something is good and evil......... That's because the deities decide so and they are beings of power they decide just like that in this manga SD and DK are beings of power that's why they will decide what's good and bad

Uhh, no, just no! In this series the SD and DK are merely sides of the same coin, really the same coin, if we're only to judge by what info we've been given so far, so, if one physical god, not even a proper god, is deemed evil for torturing their targets, including their own children, the other one is too. The Good and Evil they're being judged by are the concepts our minds and language have created and are our reality and convention, it's not decided by them.

 

[Meliodaf]

If we took in count every bad thing the characters dose in this series mel will be the worst character/villian in the story but its not how it work here

No way is Mel the worst villain. A lot of the “bad” things he does is just him living his life. The Holy War that he takes blame for isn’t really his fault. He realized the war was dumb and just wanted to live with Elizabeth and he died fighting for peace among races. It’s not actually his fought everyone else was obsessed with bloodshed. And then we have the Commandments who were genuinely evil and Ludociel who actually dedicated his life to genocide and convinced his stupid gentle follower of a brother to do the same. He brainwashes people to fight for him to the death as well. There’s also the Supreme Diety for what she did to Elizabeth and even the Civil Demons. The Demon King is actively denying his entire race peace, attempted to murder both his kids, possessed both of them when out of his way to get rid of Gelda because Zeldris loves her and overkilled an entire village after he was tricked by one of them. Sense we know he doesn’t believe in peace, he was trying to kill literally everyone with war. The idea that Meliodas, one of 5 characters who stuck to the idea that peace should be the goal is the most evil character even based on doing bad things is ridiculous. The only real bad thing he’s done that we’ve seen is destroy Danafor. We know he was cruel and killed but everyone in this manga has so that’s really tame compared to a lot of others

--- Double Post Merged, May 30, 2019, Original Post Date: May 30, 2019 ---

As far as I can see, the SD is the lesser evil when compared to the DK.

No she’s not and this idea needs to die. She’s just as evil. She fought the same war. Killed as many people. Cursed his kid. Slaughtered a village because she got tricked. Killed her own child. The idea that she’s somehow a lesser evil stems from the fact she hasn’t made actual appearance to be the condescending ass I promise she is. The whole point of Meliodas and Elizabeth not picking their clan’s sides in the Holy War is the fact that both sides were wrong.There is no lesser evil as they are both monsters.

 

[Anti mel fanboysim]

No way is Mel the worst villain. A lot of the “bad” things he does is just him living his life. The Holy War that he takes blame for isn’t really his fault. He realized the war was dumb and just wanted to live with Elizabeth and he died fighting for peace among races. It’s not actually his fought everyone else was obsessed with bloodshed. And then we have the Commandments who were genuinely evil and Ludociel who actually dedicated his life to genocide and convinced his stupid gentle follower of a brother to do the same. He brainwashes people to fight for him to the death as well. There’s also the Supreme Diety for what she did to Elizabeth and even the Civil Demons. The Demon King is actively denying his entire race peace, attempted to murder both his kids, possessed both of them when out of his way to get rid of Gelda because Zeldris loves her and overkilled an entire village after he was tricked by one of them. Sense we know he doesn’t believe in peace, he was trying to kill literally everyone with war. The idea that Meliodas, one of 5 characters who stuck to the idea that peace should be the goal is the most evil character even based on doing bad things is ridiculous. The only real bad thing he’s done that we’ve seen is destroy Danafor. We know he was cruel and killed but everyone in this manga has so that’s really tame compared to a lot of others

1-DK is sucmbag as i said earlier.
2-As for what the SD and DK did to the wizards village its not even comaparble to what happend to danafor... dont forget that the villagers made themselfs the gods enemy when they wanted infinity for them aswell unlike danafor the poor humans were attacked by demons and what mel dose? Yeah ERASE THE WHOLE KINGDOM.
3- by your logic The SD cursing her duagther is just she living her life too and its not really her fualt that eli is protecting the demons so they could comeback to kill more goddess

SD is not elizabeth goodness tier but not even close to how bad the DK is. as far as we know SD never killed/used force to submit her followers.

--- Double Post Merged, May 30, 2019, Original Post Date: May 30, 2019 ---

Where did you get this from? And I want an official source

Couldnt find the chapter but im sure mel killed zeno and aranak to save the goddess messanger

 

[The Prince of Darkness]

Couldnt find the chapter but im sure mel killed zeno and aranak to save the goddess messanger

Nerobusta, a Divine Lance Caporale said herself that her Clan was the one who started the war when they broke the truce they had with the Demon Clan by kidnapping, torturing ans killing Demon civilans.

 

[Meliodaf]

1-DK is sucmbag as i said earlier.
2-As for what the SD and DK did to the wizards village its not even comaparble to what happend to danafor... dont forget that the villagers made themselfs the gods enemy when they wanted infinity for them aswell unlike danafor the poor humans were attacked by demons and what mel dose? Yeah ERASE THE WHOLE KINGDOM.
3- by your logic The SD cursing her duagther is just she living her life too and its not really her fualt that eli is protecting the demons so they could comeback to kill more goddess

SD is not elizabeth goodness tier but not even close to how bad the DK is. as far as we know SD never killed/used force to submit her followers.

--- Double Post Merged, May 30, 2019, Original Post Date: May 30, 2019 ---

Couldnt find the chapter but im sure mel killed zeno and aranak to save the goddess messanger

No need to discuss number 1 so:

2: The difference between Danafor and Belialuin is the fact that one was completely intentionally and was an accident due to a loss of control. The village didn’t want either god to have Merlin as they wanted to remain neutral and she was one of them. One of these things was done with malicious intent and one was not. Meliodas fought to defend Danafor and lost control of his power when Fraudrin killed Liz. These are not the same thing. And they’re not comparable because Meliodas wasn’t trying to be a monster.

3: And no, by my logic it’s wrong that everyone blames the holy war on Meliodas when all he did was choose not to participate. He just exercised a right that bunch of others had and waited too long to realize they have it.So, Zeldris, Ludociel, Derieri, Monspeet and Mael. When I say living his life I mean it’s not his fault everyone wants to kill each other he just wants to live with Elizabeth. They decided they wanted to kill each other and to blame that on Meliodas is ridiculous. Jenna and Zaneri made the same decision to walk away. What the Supreme Diety did is in no way the same. She tried to force a way of thinking on Elizabeth to get her to slaughter a race because theirs is “better” over land that wasn’t theirs. And I just refuse to acknowledge the idea that one of the gods is less evil than the other again.

And just to clarify, the Goddesses brainwash people and that ability likely stems from her so I’m blaming her and attributing it to her. She’s probably the best at forcing people.

 

[Anti mel fanboysim]

Nerobusta, a Divine Lance Caporale said herself that her Clan was the one who started the war when they broke the truce they had with the Demon Clan by kidnapping, torturing ans killing Demon civilans.

No need to discuss number 1 so:

2: The difference between Danafor and Belialuin is the fact that one was completely intentionally and was an accident due to a loss of control. The village didn’t want either god to have Merlin as they wanted to remain neutral and she was one of them. One of these things was done with malicious intent and one was not. Meliodas fought to defend Danafor and lost control of his power when Fraudrin killed Liz. These are not the same thing. And they’re not comparable because Meliodas wasn’t trying to be a monster.

3: And no, by my logic it’s wrong that everyone blames the holy war on Meliodas when all he did was choose not to participate. He just exercised a right that bunch of others had and waited too long to realize they have it.So, Zeldris, Ludociel, Derieri, Monspeet and Mael. When I say living his life I mean it’s not his fault everyone wants to kill each other he just wants to live with Elizabeth. They decided they wanted to kill each other and to blame that on Meliodas is ridiculous. Jenna and Zaneri made the same decision to walk away. What the Supreme Diety did is in no way the same. She tried to force a way of thinking on Elizabeth to get her to slaughter a race because theirs is “better” over land that wasn’t theirs. And I just refuse to acknowledge the idea that one of the gods is less evil than the other again.

And just to clarify, the Goddesses brainwash people and that ability likely stems from her so I’m blaming her and attributing it to her. She’s probably the best at forcing people.

2-still his fualt for not controlling his anger.

3-mel didnt just chose ((not to participate in the war)) he killed 2 commandments and fled . I agree that its not his fault cuz looks like both clans were fighting since the begginging of time. As for the brainwashing stuff theres the possibility that all goddess except eli gets brainwashed by the SD hopefully thats not the case.

 

[Demonspeed]

Why do you even know something is good and evil......... That's because the deities decide so and they are beings of power they decide just like that in this manga SD and DK are beings of power that's why they will decide what's good and bad

LOL, so are you saying that the Sins are the bad guys?

 

[Undina]

1-DK is sucmbag as i said earlier.
2-As for what the SD and DK did to the wizards village its not even comaparble to what happend to danafor... dont forget that the villagers made themselfs the gods enemy when they wanted infinity for them aswell unlike danafor the poor humans were attacked by demons and what mel dose? Yeah ERASE THE WHOLE KINGDOM.
3- by your logic The SD cursing her duagther is just she living her life too and its not really her fualt that eli is protecting the demons so they could comeback to kill more goddess

SD is not elizabeth goodness tier but not even close to how bad the DK is. as far as we know SD never killed/used force to submit her followers.

--- Double Post Merged, May 30, 2019, Original Post Date: May 30, 2019 ---

Couldnt find the chapter but im sure mel killed zeno and aranak to save the goddess messanger

2-I strongly suggest you go back to all the chapters providing information on the Danafor situation! You clearly need a reminder on how Meliodas wiped out a city already FULL OF CORPSES! Fraudrin had already slaughtered everyone and this is what Mel has always acknowledged as his Sin, failing to prevent or stop the massacre in time, not killing them himself! So, you have no argument regarding the people of Danafor, who were Fraudrin's victims, not Meliodas's. Beliaruin, the human town that sheltered the wounded demon, the demon civillians etc were all the SD's victims to some degree.
3- She was in charge and, as others have pointed out, she was supporting and encouraging sociopathic behaviour, while also, eventually, displaying a psychopath's behaviour with what she did to her daughter.
If you have issues empathising or experiencing any sort of parental instinct, regardless of being a parent yourself or not, you shouldn't touch this topic! The SD is a monster for what she did to Elizabeth alone, there's no debate there and the greater part of this species will contradict you, not only a good deal of this forum.

You should find that chapter, because, as far as I remember, they said Zeno and Aranak were trying to kill "war prisoners", not "messengers". They were goddesses they had captured in battle and apparently were planning to use for an exchange or another political deal! If you had any idea about how military rules go during war, trying to kill "messengers" is far worse, and that would mean those TC absolutely earned their deaths, since there's still a saying based on an actual RULE, to this day, that you "DON'T. SHOOT. THE. MESSENGER", regardless what people/faction they belong to, they're a neutral element in a war situation.

2-still his fualt for not controlling his anger.

3-mel didnt just chose ((not to participate in the war)) he killed 2 commandments and fled . I agree that its not his fault cuz looks like both clans were fighting since the begginging of time. As for the brainwashing stuff theres the possibility that all goddess except eli gets brainwashed by the SD hopefully thats not the case.

2-still irrelevant, as he didn't kill anyone(he even failed to kill the culprit) in Danafor.
3- you proved our claim, that she is evil, whether she just persuaded them, the old fashioned way, or brainwashed them, she was/is upholding an abominable angle.

 

[Anti mel fanboysim]

2-I strongly suggest you go back to all the chapters providing information on the Danafor situation! You clearly need a reminder on how Meliodas wiped out a city already FULL OF CORPSES! Fraudrin had already slaughtered everyone and this is what Mel has always acknowledged as his Sin, failing to prevent or stop the massacre in time, not killing them himself! So, you have no argument regarding the people of Danafor, who were Fraudrin's victims, not Meliodas's. Beliaruin, the human town that sheltered the wounded demon, the demon civilians etc were all the SD's victims to some degree.
3- She was in charge and as others have pointed out, she was supporting and encouraging sociopathic behaviour, while also, eventually, displaying a psychopath's behaviour with what she did to her daughter.
If you have issues empathising or experiencing any sort of parental instinct, regardless of being a parent or not, you shouldn't touch this topic! The SD is a monster for what she did to Elizabeth alone, there's no debate there and the greater part of this species will contradict you, not only a good deal of this forum.

You should find that chapter, because as far as I remember, they said Zeno and Aranak were trying to kill "war prisoners", not "messengers". They were goddesses they had captured in battle and apparently were planning to use for an exchange or another political deal! If you had any idea about how military rules go during war, trying to kill "messengers" is far worse and that would mean those TC absolutely earned their deaths, since there's still a saying based on an actual RULE, to this day, that you "DON'T. SHOOT. THE. MESSENGER", regardless what people/faction they belong to, they're a neutral element in a war situation.

2-still irrelevant, as he didn't kill anyone(he even failed to kill the culprit) in Danafor.
3- you proved our claim, that she is evil, whether she just persuaded them, the old fashioned way, or brainwashed them, she was/is upholding an abominable angle.

2- hmmm ok.
3- i dont know if it was a side chaper or someting else but i've been searching for hours now

Edit: 3- i just found it ur right they were going to execute goddess captives

 

[mandark]

Aren't the demons the ones who always terrorized other clans? Demons were enemies from start of the series ( ban and elaine, hendi, 10C etc etc) and till now it's a demon and it's clan who are probably the final villian.

I don't know who started the war or not but demons are/were always the bad ones. And goddesses represent the better side.

It's like comparing isis with american forces. american bombards cities with isis in it and in that operation some innocents are killed. They try there best to avoid civillian deads but in order to save billions if they need to kill some thousands they see no wrong in that. I feel its the same case with goddess and demons here.

PS: sorry for going totally technical and its only my personal view.

 

[Ger]

Aren't the demons the ones who always terrorized other clans? Demons were enemies from start of the series ( ban and elaine, hendi, 10C etc etc) and till now it's a demon and it's clan who are probably the final villian.

I don't know who started the war or not but demons are/were always the bad ones. And goddesses represent the better side.

It's like comparing isis with american forces. american bombards cities with isis in it and in that operation some innocents are killed. They try there best to avoid civillian deads but in order to save billions if they need to kill some thousands they see no wrong in that. I feel its the same case with goddess and demons here.

PS: sorry for going totally technical and its only my personal view.

What people already said goddess clan initiated the war by breaking their truce, which demons never went ahead and started a war. The goddess do not show any signs of being better or a nicer clan than demons.

 

[Meliodaf]

Aren't the demons the ones who always terrorized other clans? Demons were enemies from start of the series ( ban and elaine, hendi, 10C etc etc) and till now it's a demon and it's clan who are probably the final villian.

I don't know who started the war or not but demons are/were always the bad ones. And goddesses represent the better side.

It's like comparing isis with american forces. american bombards cities with isis in it and in that operation some innocents are killed. They try there best to avoid civillian deads but in order to save billions if they need to kill some thousands they see no wrong in that. I feel its the same case with goddess and demons here.

PS: sorry for going totally technical and its only my personal view.

Goddesses are more into manipulating the other races like how Ludo almost killed every named Holy Knight with his breath of bliss and they were only saved by the fact that Elizabeth had been healing them the entire time. Also Goddesses don’t have bodies anymore for the most part.

 

[Seven777]

Why do you even know something is good and evil......... That's because the deities decide so and they are beings of power they decide just like that in this manga SD and DK are beings of power that's why they will decide what's good and bad

We know because it's common sense, power and deities have nothing to do with it. Don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to you, it's as simple as that. So yes, the SD and DK are evil, no, they don't get to decide anything, and in the end their power doesn't mean anything, because they are bad guys and the good guys will defeat them.

 

[Merlin918]

The Demons do seem to be much more evil. For example, they are hellbent on exterminating all humans now, while the same isn't true of the Goddess Clan, as far as we know. Nakaba has not even stated the reason why Sariel and Tarmiel were trying to get many of the Holy Knights killed off with "Cheat Hope". If they want to win, I don't really see the point of letting the humans working for them die. Maybe to save magical energy? But that's a stretch.


It also doesn't help that all Red demons and such seem to clearly be the ugly mindless evil monster type, and these lesser demons presumably make up the majority of the clan. They all consume souls with great joy and love genocide. We don't even know if it was any different back in the first holy war, or if they still just mercilessly erased from existence all or most of those they killed. While "Purge" shows that the GC did the same to demons, we know that probably isn't the case a significant portion of the time, based on Mael's backstory, as otherwise Ludociel could not have brainwashed him. And Elizabeth's 'Purification' magic shows that darkness seems to be basically evil, even if a tenth of the time Nakaba tries to say Demons aren't bad. So how are Demons not the villains?

Makes you wonder why the Goddess clan even started the holy war in the first place. They are all free of disease, they live 1000 years, and it doesn't seem like they ever have internal wars. The holy war is meant to be over the magical power of the land, but you don't need higher PLs for combat if there is no war. The kind of reason I would probably use is that they could use that magical power to improve their quality of life, especially if they also took over the Demon Realm and converted it into a second Celestial Realm with their magic or something. For example, longer lifespans due to more magic power available to the GC, or the potential to perform some major project that the SD could never do with just one world's power. Overall, it would be best if we learned that even the SD has limits, like not simply being able to spam "Eternal Life" or "Perpetual Reincarnation" spells on anyone she wants, as otherwise the whole premise of the holy war would become pretty stupid. Same with the DK.

 

[Samael Morningstar]

LOL, so are you saying that the Sins are the bad guys?

Yes they are, seeing from my point of view

--- Double Post Merged, May 31, 2019, Original Post Date: May 31, 2019 ---

We know because it's common sense, power and deities have nothing to do with it. Don't do to others what you wouldn't want done to you, it's as simple as that. So yes, the SD and DK are evil, no, they don't get to decide anything, and in the end their power doesn't mean anything, because they are bad guys and the good guys will defeat them.

As expected you guys don't see what's beyond

 

[BurlapJack]

No need to discuss number 1 so:

2: The difference between Danafor and Belialuin is the fact that one was completely intentionally and was an accident due to a loss of control. The village didn’t want either god to have Merlin as they wanted to remain neutral and she was one of them. One of these things was done with malicious intent and one was not. Meliodas fought to defend Danafor and lost control of his power when Fraudrin killed Liz. These are not the same thing. And they’re not comparable because Meliodas wasn’t trying to be a monster.

3: And no, by my logic it’s wrong that everyone blames the holy war on Meliodas when all he did was choose not to participate. He just exercised a right that bunch of others had and waited too long to realize they have it.So, Zeldris, Ludociel, Derieri, Monspeet and Mael. When I say living his life I mean it’s not his fault everyone wants to kill each other he just wants to live with Elizabeth. They decided they wanted to kill each other and to blame that on Meliodas is ridiculous. Jenna and Zaneri made the same decision to walk away. What the Supreme Diety did is in no way the same. She tried to force a way of thinking on Elizabeth to get her to slaughter a race because theirs is “better” over land that wasn’t theirs. And I just refuse to acknowledge the idea that one of the gods is less evil than the other again.

And just to clarify, the Goddesses brainwash people and that ability likely stems from her so I’m blaming her and attributing it to her. She’s probably the best at forcing people.

Also danafor's people were already dead, whysome above decided to omit that crucial detail is up in the air

--- Double Post Merged, May 31, 2019, Original Post Date: May 31, 2019 ---

Yo someone above show me a panel of gowther sr, glarisa, zeldris and meliodas eating souls or atleast a mention of such cause so far only background red and gray demons and some of the Tc ate souls

 

[Merlin918]

Also danafor's people were already dead, whysome above decided to omit that crucial detail is up in the air

--- Double Post Merged, May 31, 2019, Original Post Date: May 31, 2019 ---

Yo someone above show me a panel of gowther sr, glarisa, zeldris and meliodas eating souls or atleast a mention of such cause so far only background red and gray demons and some of the Tc ate souls

Zeldris might have just scared them all and mind controlled through piety, but he agreed that everyone should use the soul eating plan Derierre had for the new holy war. However it was never confirmed that this genocide was always normal. So yes, chances are Meliodas and OG Gowther were not soul eaters. Maybe not Zeldris either. As they are supposed to be more good guy ish and what not.