Discussion The Holy war

[Seven777]

Okay but in a Q/A Nakaba said that Chandler is older than Galan. He said him and Cusack are the oldest Demons.
I think there's more than one Favor Indura in the Underworld and more than one Induras for every type.
If the DK can controle Induras it would be Favor Induras since they are from his "Ten Commandments" but the others Induras are like wild beasts walking in the Underworld that everyone try to avoid

Makes sense, because Nakaba already knew Cusack and Chandler were the OG demon by that point, remember that silhouette wielding Cusack and Chandler's weapons back in Mel's explanation of the commandments? Nakaba's been planning it for some time. In short, when he answered that question he may have been considering the Original Demon's age(you'd expect the demon named the original demon, to be the oldest demon) as part of Chandler's, which it is. Their punishment being to tutor the sons wouldn't really make sense otherwise. Thats what I'm assuming anyways, could be a Fraudrin situation where Baruja was just a demon Galand has fought alongside before.

I agree there might be more than one Indura of Favor, in fact I think 1 or 2 more will appear for King and Ban to take on, and then a few other lesser Indura will appear for the lesser Sins. Still waiting for a Diane powerup, though she's already strong enough to pierce Indura so I guess it doesn't matter. Would still like to see it though.

 

[sobreno]

Oh yeah, I forgot that the Goddess had their last trump card if everything went to despair for them.

Their sealing of the dark coffin but they need the rest of the Clans to do it, so it doesn't count.

But that coffin can seal a bunch of Indura beast roaming around from Britannia?

Fraudin escape it, so it isn't absolute too.

And the seal isn't unlimited in time as it can stand for 3000 years, it just delay the inevitable as they will eventually be free once again in the future.

 

[Estarossa173]

It doesn't matter.

The Goddesses & Demons were equally as powerful.

Why do you think there was a peace treaty after many wars? Because neither could destroy each other.

Why do you think the Goddesses started a war once Prime Mel left? Because he ruined the power balance and gave them the edge.

Why did Gowther kill himself for the whole Mael situation? Because Mael was Mel's equal and by effectively "eliminating" him, he could restore the power balance Mel destroyed.

Why did the Goddesses kill themselves? Because neither side could overpower each other and thus settled for a stalemate.

There isn't a single statement of objectivity in this manga that states that one clan was stronger than the other prior to Mel's betrayal.

Enough of this nonsense, please.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 29, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 29, 2019 ---

Both sides were equally as powerful and stupid TBH.

Masters apparently did nothing eventhough their clan was being destroyed for a large majority of the war.

SD decided to kill her own daughter and mel instead of you know... using them with her power to brainwash? Losing Mael could've been negated if she had brainwashed Elizabeth and Mel into pure mindless machines of death, but nah, better team up with the DK

I could go on all day, but u get the point.

Yes, this should’ve been the case. But the thing here is: nakaba has been wanking off the demons. He keeps giving them so much shit such as the indura. This is why it doesn’t appear like they are equal.

 

[sobreno]

Yes, this should’ve been the case. But the thing here is: nakaba has been wanking off the demons. This is why it doesn’t appear like they are equal.

Well yeah, thanks to Indura.

A fodder commandment can be a threat to several Archangels tier characters at the same time.

And the worst thing is that it continues to grow more uglier and sinister with time.

Just need 4 of them, no, 3 should be enough with the DC run away from them, and it is over.

Only problem is: What if the Goddesses run too?

Naw, they are too stupid to run.

 

[Shadowlord123]

If you don't take into account the Indura of Favor (which is pretty much a suicide move for any demon that has the requirements to use it), both clans should be equal. Mael rivals Prime Mel overall, Ludoshel and Goddess Elizabeth can fend off against the Sinner and Zeldris and Sar and Tar should be able to hold their own against the commandments if they don't fuck around (specially given their dimension shit). The Black Knights should probably be around the level of the Divine Lance Corporal. Fodder should equal fodder. The Gods are obviously equal.

Even if some demons that are 50K+ and have 7 hearts go Indura, it's not like the GC is completely out of cards either. It was already stated that Indura turns those demons into mindless beasts and that they actually waste all their energy in destroying everything until they die. The Goddesses could perfectly retreat and let them do their thing, after all once they're in that state, they can't tell the difference between allies and enemies (the fact that Galan told Fraudrin to get out of there when the dynamic duo transformed is a proof of that). They can even do a grand purification spell. Goddess Eli already had the power to stall two Induras of Favor by herself and with the help of Sar and Tar she overpowered them. Imagine that with Ludo, Mael, Sar and Tar. It's pretty much a given that they should be able to purify any single Indura of Favor (having my doubts with Zel and specially Mel's cases but I also think it). The last option is Noon Mael, depending on how strong you consider him to be. When it comes to regular Induras, those are already stated to be far weaker than the Induras of Favor, so they shouldn't be too much of a game changer IMO. This part of the post is just to showcase that even if some high ranked demons turn into Indura, the GC still has cards to play and they aren't helpless. Indura is not something that fucks up only the GC, it also fucks up the DC too. The majority of the people don't seem to take the last thing into consideration when they make the argument that if the demons go Indura they stomp the GC.

This vision perfectly lines up with the statements made by OG Gowther, who stated that both clans were relatively equal to each other. When Mel left, the balance broke and the Goddesses had the advatage. That's why he had to turn Mael into a demon (partially because he was the one who killed his lover too). If there was that much of a difference to the point that a single Indura can solo the whole clan minus the SD, the demons should have stomped, but that wasn't the case. It has already been stated time and time again that both clans were relatively equal. No matter how much Nakaba wanks the DC or how much more spotlight they have compared to the GC, nothing is going to change this fact at this point.

There's also the argument that Goddesses needed the help of the other clans and thus, they aren't comparable to the demons. IMO, the flaw of this argument lies in overestimating the help the other clans could deliver. The Humans were obviously all fodder as far as we know, with the exception of some of them like Rou, but he wasn't on their side at all. The Giants and Fairies were a force to be taken into account since between the two they had two commandment level fighters (Gloxinia and Drole), but these two ended up in the DC's side by the end of the war, which pretty much makes the help the GC had from the other clans negligible.

That's my honest opinion.

 

[Seven777]

Not like the DC was alone, they had the vamps, not that I expect they contributed much. Plus some humans.

 

[OtakuFreak]

If you don't take into account the Indura of Favor (which is pretty much a suicide move for any demon that has the requirements to use it), both clans should be equal. Mael rivals Prime Mel overall, Ludoshel and Goddess Elizabeth can fend off against the Sinner and Zeldris and Sar and Tar should be able to hold their own against the commandments if they don't fuck around (specially given their dimension shit). The Black Knights should probably be around the level of the Divine Lance Corporal. Fodder should equal fodder. The Gods are obviously equal.

Even if some demons that are 50K+ and have 7 hearts go Indura, it's not like the GC is completely out of cards either. It was already stated that Indura turns those demons into mindless beasts and that they actually waste all their energy in destroying everything until they die. The Goddesses could perfectly retreat and let them do their thing, after all once they're in that state, they can't tell the difference between allies and enemies (the fact that Galan told Fraudrin to get out of there when the dynamic duo transformed is a proof of that). They can even do a grand purification spell. Goddess Eli already had the power to stall two Induras of Favor by herself and with the help of Sar and Tar she overpowered them. Imagine that with Ludo, Mael, Sar and Tar. It's pretty much a given that they should be able to purify any single Indura of Favor (having my doubts with Zel and specially Mel's cases but I also think it). The last option is Noon Mael, depending on how strong you consider him to be. When it comes to regular Induras, those are already stated to be far weaker than the Induras of Favor, so they shouldn't be too much of a game changer IMO. This part of the post is just to showcase that even if some high ranked demons turn into Indura, the GC still has cards to play and they aren't helpless. Indura is not something that fucks up only the GC, it also fucks up the DC too. The majority of the people don't seem to take the last thing into consideration when they make the argument that if the demons go Indura they stomp the GC.

This vision perfectly lines up with the statements made by OG Gowther, who stated that both clans were relatively equal to each other. When Mel left, the balance broke and the Goddesses had the advatage. That's why he had to turn Mael into a demon (partially because he was the one who killed his lover too). If there was that much of a difference to the point that a single Indura can solo the whole clan minus the SD, the demons should have stomped, but that wasn't the case. It has already been stated time and time again that both clans were relatively equal. No matter how much Nakaba wanks the DC or how much more spotlight they have compared to the GC, nothing is going to change this fact at this point.

There's also the argument that Goddesses needed the help of the other clans and thus, they aren't comparable to the demons. IMO, the flaw of this argument lies in overestimating the help the other clans could deliver. The Humans were obviously all fodder as far as we know, with the exception of some of them like Rou, but he wasn't on their side at all. The Giants and Fairies were a force to be taken into account since between the two they had two commandment level fighters (Gloxinia and Drole), but these two ended up in the DC's side by the end of the war, which pretty much makes the help the GC had from the other clans negligible.

That's my honest opinion.

The clans were unable to destroy each other without entirely sacrificing themselves. Plus, the power balance was always shifting in small ways even if they were equals.

E.G Demons get stronger at night, Indura was a last resort for demons, Mael could eliminate anyone besides the DK at noon and as such was a trump card etc.

 

[sobreno]

The clans were unable to destroy each other without entirely sacrificing themselves. Plus, the power balance was always shifting in small ways even if they were equals.

E.G Demons get stronger at night, Indura was a last resort for demons, Mael could eliminate anyone besides the DK at noon and as such was a trump card etc.

Naw, it isn't small as Indura doesn't give a small boost but a Ridiculous one.

And lol at Mael eliminating anyone at noon, he would already did long ago but he couldn't, Meliodas balanced him pretty well.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 29, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 29, 2019 ---

If you don't take into account the Indura of Favor (which is pretty much a suicide move for any demon that has the requirements to use it), both clans should be equal. Mael rivals Prime Mel overall, Ludoshel and Goddess Elizabeth can fend off against the Sinner and Zeldris and Sar and Tar should be able to hold their own against the commandments if they don't fuck around (specially given their dimension shit). The Black Knights should probably be around the level of the Divine Lance Corporal. Fodder should equal fodder. The Gods are obviously equal.

Even if some demons that are 50K+ and have 7 hearts go Indura, it's not like the GC is completely out of cards either. It was already stated that Indura turns those demons into mindless beasts and that they actually waste all their energy in destroying everything until they die. The Goddesses could perfectly retreat and let them do their thing, after all once they're in that state, they can't tell the difference between allies and enemies (the fact that Galan told Fraudrin to get out of there when the dynamic duo transformed is a proof of that). They can even do a grand purification spell. Goddess Eli already had the power to stall two Induras of Favor by herself and with the help of Sar and Tar she overpowered them. Imagine that with Ludo, Mael, Sar and Tar. It's pretty much a given that they should be able to purify any single Indura of Favor (having my doubts with Zel and specially Mel's cases but I also think it). The last option is Noon Mael, depending on how strong you consider him to be. When it comes to regular Induras, those are already stated to be far weaker than the Induras of Favor, so they shouldn't be too much of a game changer IMO. This part of the post is just to showcase that even if some high ranked demons turn into Indura, the GC still has cards to play and they aren't helpless. Indura is not something that fucks up only the GC, it also fucks up the DC too. The majority of the people don't seem to take the last thing into consideration when they make the argument that if the demons go Indura they stomp the GC.

This vision perfectly lines up with the statements made by OG Gowther, who stated that both clans were relatively equal to each other. When Mel left, the balance broke and the Goddesses had the advatage. That's why he had to turn Mael into a demon (partially because he was the one who killed his lover too). If there was that much of a difference to the point that a single Indura can solo the whole clan minus the SD, the demons should have stomped, but that wasn't the case. It has already been stated time and time again that both clans were relatively equal. No matter how much Nakaba wanks the DC or how much more spotlight they have compared to the GC, nothing is going to change this fact at this point.

There's also the argument that Goddesses needed the help of the other clans and thus, they aren't comparable to the demons. IMO, the flaw of this argument lies in overestimating the help the other clans could deliver. The Humans were obviously all fodder as far as we know, with the exception of some of them like Rou, but he wasn't on their side at all. The Giants and Fairies were a force to be taken into account since between the two they had two commandment level fighters (Gloxinia and Drole), but these two ended up in the DC's side by the end of the war, which pretty much makes the help the GC had from the other clans negligible.

That's my honest opinion.

Not if the DK control them around. It is suicidal because they lost their sense of self, basically means that their consciousness of self died, they were just walking beast power which destroy on Instinct and can be controlled by their master, the DK himself.

 

[OtakuFreak]

Fraudin escape it, so it isn't absolute too.

Fraudrin escaped a separate seal, which was released by humans 16 years prior to the start of the series.

Nakaba said this in a Q/A. @FKS should be able to show you said Q/A.

And the seal isn't unlimited in time as it can stand for 3000 years, it just delay the inevitable as they will eventually be free once again in the future.

No, the seal was never stated to last for a maximum length of 3000 years, it just happened to be broken at this time.

If Fraudrin hadn't manipulated humans into breaking the seal, then there's no telling how long the Demon Clan would've stayed sealed for. In fact, the seal would've probably lasted for a few more millenniums.

Their sealing of the dark coffin but they need the rest of the Clans to do it, so it doesn't count.

No? The other clans had nothing to do with the seal, it was the Goddesses who fabricated the seal, hence why the demons call it ''The Goddess Seal'' and not sum ''Stigma/Fairy,Giant,Human & Goddess Seal''.

The seal's consequence was to strip the user(s) physical form, which happened to only the Goddesses whilst the fairies, giants & humans returned to their own respective realms and existed prior to the seal breaking.

 

[sobreno]

Fraudrin escaped a separate seal, which was released by humans 16 years prior to the start of the series.

Nakaba said this in a Q/A. @FKS should be able to show you said Q/A.



No, the seal was never stated to last for a maximum length of 3000 years, it just happened to be broken at this time.

If Fraudrin hadn't manipulated humans into breaking the seal, then there's no telling how long the Demon Clan would've stayed sealed for. In fact, the seal would've probably lasted for a few more millenniums.



No? The other clans had nothing to do with the seal, it was the Goddesses who fabricated the seal, hence why the demons call it ''The Goddess Seal'' and not sum ''Stigma/Fairy,Giant,Human & Goddess Seal''.

The seal's consequence was to strip the user(s) physical form, which happened to only the Goddesses whilst the fairies, giants & humans returned to their own respective realms and existed prior to the seal breaking.

Well, he was present in the Holy War but somehow, the seal didn't touch him.

The others contributed it, mainly the Giants too.

 

[Ger]

Do people here realise that induras would be out of high ranking demons character right? Of course monspiet and derrieri had used to use the purpose of defeating 3 AAs st once which they pretty much did. But that doesnt mean induras were played into the idea of "balance" as induras are not meant to use and they are forbidden, and theres only little amount of people that can use the form. Chandler, Cusack didnt even use indura against escanor or the Sinner needing to use it against mael or zeldris using it against escanor despite the fact he wants to defeat him. So meliodas is the only person that can make everything into balance due to his power. That's why without him demons are at disadvantage

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Jul 1, 2019 ---

Since I'm bored and and want to debate prime meliodas>mael

 

[OtakuFreak]

So, we've been told multiple times by characters in the series that the reason why the Goddesses attacked the Demons upon Meliodas defection was due to the power balance being in their favour and as such, for Gowther to end the war, he had to restore this balance by removing an equally as powerful individual from the Goddesses as Meliodas. Apparently, this had the desired effect given how the Goddesses were forced to activate the seal upon the balance being restored, but logically, couldn't they have won without doing so, even with Mael's ''death''?

Here's how I see it:

-Even with Mael's absence, the Goddesses were in a favourable position against the Demons. Supposedly, they still had every other AA, with the addition of Elizabeth & Meliodas. If Elizabeth or Ludoshel especially, were seen as Mael's equal, why didn't they step up and take his place? There's an emphasis told on Mael's power, yet it's revealed he has people who can equal or surpass him, weakening his importance.

-Ideally, the war could've been won for the Goddesses. In my opinion, the Supreme Deity was foolish in deciding to team up with the Demon King, rather than using Meliodas & Elizabeth as tools of war. At this time, Elizabeth & Meliodas were helpless before her and it's been revealed Goddesses have very capable brainwashing powers. What was stopping her from brainwashing them into doing her bidding? Unless the Demon King intervened, there's nothing which would interrupt this plan.

-Not only this, but the Supreme Deity didn't even try to locate the sun grace and bestow it upon a new user, such as Ludoshel or brainwashed Elizabeth. Why? The Demon King gave Zeldris representative powers to manually recall the commandments from a large distance and even incorporated an element of communication with the commandments, so he could talk to them about what the user was doing. Assuming the Graces are similar in function, what was stopping the Supreme Deity from finding the sun grace? In fact, the whole dilemma of ''Mael's death'' could've been undone quickly if it's assumed Gowther's brainwashing doesn't work on non-living entities (such as the sun grace, whom was with Mael when he was ''killed''). The Supreme Deity taking little action to remedy the death of her strongest AA is silly, especially for someone whom is reversed as a ''God'' and a military leader of a very powerful clan.

-Assuming the Supreme Deity did at minimum, find the sun grace & brainwash Elizabeth/Meliodas into fighting against the Demon Clan. They wouldn't be required to activate the seal since Mael's position would've been replaced by a Sun-Ludoshel/Elizabeth. Not only this, but during this point of the war, the strongest fighter on the Demons side (besides the King) would've been Zeldris, since Meliodas betrayed them & Merlin mentioned how the Masters didn't participate in the holy war. Whilst Zeldris is strong, I'm pretty sure any of the AA's & Mel could take him alone, leaving only the commandments left, whom could also be handled easily by one or two AA-tier fighters. Even with the addition of the masters (or OG Demon) & single-Indura of favour (that was recently revealed to be fodder), who could stop a Sun Grace AA with other AA tier fighters as well?

In essence:

-Supreme Deity handles the Demon King

-Sun Ludoshel, Elizabeth or Meliodas could individually handle Zeldris & Masters/Indura with some difficulty.

-Sariel & Tarmiel could wipe out the entire commandment brigade, assuming Zeldris wasn't with them.

-After wiping out the respective threats, the AA tier fighters could just finish off the rest of the Demon Clan fodder, and then hypothetically come back to help the SD against the DK.

This is entirely hypothetical, but didn't the Supreme Deity/Goddesses still have a favourable position against the Demons had she acted instead of killing more of her strongest soldiers & committing suicide?

TL.DR - SD should've brainwashed Mel/Eliz, find & give the sun grace to Ludoshel and handle the DK whilst Eliz/Ludo/Mel/Sar/Tarmiel wipe out Zel/Masters & Commandments. They could've won and suicide was silly.

 

[Seven777]

-Yeah, they might've still had a favorable position, but the GC didn't know that. Gowther manipulated everyone into believing that Estarossa was so powerful that he killed Mael by himself. The GC didn't just lose Mael, they lost him while seeing a new, even more powerful demon join the battle. And unlike Estarossa, Meliodas wasn't exactly loyal to the cause, so the DC got a powerful and loyal warrior, while the GC got a powerful but unreliable warrior. In the end the GC's position was nothing but unreliable from what they knew, and unreliability is exactly what they didn't want.

-You're massively overselling goddess brainwashing powers, they barely even work on humans. There'd be no chance that they'd be able to get Meliodas to kill his own brothers. Elizabeth is probably outright immune too.

-Can't say as to why the SD couldn't find Sun, perhaps it had something to do with Escanor despite not being born yet. But even if she found it, theres no guarantee someone else would be able to harness its power like Mael or even Escanor did. Logically Ludo should've been given Sun if the strongest can make the most of it, definitely when Mael was a kid, but that seems not to be how it works. Especially considering Escanor is seemingly even more powerful with it now than Mael is

-We don't know at what point The SD decided to punish Mel and Elizabeth, but I wager it was at the end of the war. She was willing to use them when she thought the war was in the bag, but when the coffin plan became necessary, Mel and Elizabeth lost their value as soldiers since everyone's getting sealed anyway. Maybe she just wanted to torture them to teach them a lesson until she returned, maybe by then Elizabeth would beg her forgiveness like Ludo said.

In the end the DK is still the biggest threat, maybe she just wanted to let him age for a few billion years, and then eventually she'd come back, find a vessel and reform her young body to crush his old one.

 

[RisaArias]

I doubt it. While Mael did say Ludo and Liz were at his level. We saw Ludo struggling against Sinner with crisis but Mael shot him.

Then there are induras who could overwhelm Sariel and Tarmiel at once. Maybe even Liz. So, Mel has to take on all 10C by himself.

Besides, Liz and Mel wont let DC get wiped out. This would result in GC struggling. Seal was safer. SD likely coudlnt locate Sunshine.

 

[Killerbee12]

None of us, kno why the Supreme Deity, didn’t show up yet. But I think she is watching this whole thing unfold. I really want to kno wats her plan

 

[Merlin918]

"ZeLDriS iZ bAd"
Lol if zeldris is bad then meliodas,ludo,mael,Merlin,gowther are just as bad. Yeah zeldris he eaten souls and maybe beaten the sht out some people possibly killed many even though it was never shown on screen.

Meliodas- Started a war that cost thousands of lives. Betrayed a whole race, nuked a whole kingdom, betrayed his bro like 3 times.

Ludo - genocidal killed thousands of demons ,brainwashed humans for his own gain,he's literally just genocidal I don't even have to explain him.

Mael- Exterminated thousands goddess and demon. Killed derieri and monspeit

Gowther- mindfuked mael and toyed with people's hearts. Literally the cause of most of the shit that happens. Lol this man literally violated gulia

Merlin- Made the gods wipe out a whole civilization because of her own greed.

Half the main cast has done just as bad and even worse. You guys say he shouldn't be forgiven just because he has done a few good deeds shouldn't that be the case for ludo too this man wiped out thousands of demons brainwashed people but people kept quiet and forgot about him as soon as he helped hendrickson and margaret whats the difference is it because ludo is goddess and zeldris is demon.

This is a strawman. Nobody ever said all these issues don't exist for the other charas. If anything most of the people who complained about Zeldris also complained about these characters.

Meliodas's role in the start of the holy war is way too vague to be honest. We don't know how much they fought before then. All we got shown on screen was Mel and Liz stopping a war crime and trying to prevent a genocidal war between both sides. Yes, him nuking Danafor was a big issue, to be honest it was handled poorly. His magic should've been sealed right then and he should've let Merlin do it. Would make way more sense as an explanation for his darkness getting sealed.

Ludociel is obvious but everyone knows he's evil. Nobody disagreed.

Agree on Mael being evil during holy war but tbh I liked Derierre and Monspiet dying. As mass genocidal soul eating scum they deserved it lol, if anything they deserved to be Purged and erased, not just killed physically. Mael was basically merciful.

The original Gowther was good during holy war tho he did what had to be done. As for Guila, RIP. Yeah Gowther's a rapist and was easily forgiven by the characters stupidly. Everyone knows, there's just nothing to be done about it. It's old news so nobody actively mentions it much in chapter discussion when there's little reason.

And yeah Merlin sucks.

I think a lot of people said ludo's redemption was BS. Not sure what your source even is for claiming otherwise. And it's a strawman anyway. Even if they did it doesn't make Zeldris less bad. He approved the soul eating genocide Derierre wanted on screen. It's literally a Palpatine-esque 'Commence Order 66' moment. So he's directly responsible for them all getting wiped out of existence. Doesn't matter if we didn't get on screen displays of him doing genocide directly. Nakaba shied away from showing the Demon's progress in taking over britannia anyways cuz it was probably too edgy for him.

Your implication that people call zeldris out just because he is a demon is really just baseless. Ludociel is already out of the story and Mael isn't the focus right now, meanwhile Nakaba is trying to basically make Zeldris the MC. Of course he is the one primarily getting talked about.

 

[youngodin]

This is a strawman. Nobody ever said all these issues don't exist for the other charas. If anything most of the people who complained about Zeldris also complained about these characters.

Meliodas's role in the start of the holy war is way too vague to be honest. We don't know how much they fought before then. All we got shown on screen was Mel and Liz stopping a war crime and trying to prevent a genocidal war between both sides. Yes, him nuking Danafor was a big issue, to be honest it was handled poorly. His magic should've been sealed right then and he should've let Merlin do it. Would make way more sense as an explanation for his darkness getting sealed.

Ludociel is obvious but everyone knows he's evil. Nobody disagreed.

Agree on Mael being evil during holy war but tbh I liked Derierre and Monspiet dying. As mass genocidal soul eating scum they deserved it lol, if anything they deserved to be Purged and erased, not just killed physically. Mael was basically merciful.

The original Gowther was good during holy war tho he did what had to be done. As for Guila, RIP. Yeah Gowther's a rapist and was easily forgiven by the characters stupidly. Everyone knows, there's just nothing to be done about it. It's old news so nobody actively mentions it much in chapter discussion when there's little reason.

And yeah Merlin sucks.

I think a lot of people said ludo's redemption was BS. Not sure what your source even is for claiming otherwise. And it's a strawman anyway. Even if they did it doesn't make Zeldris less bad. He approved the soul eating genocide Derierre wanted on screen. It's literally a Palpatine-esque 'Commence Order 66' moment. So he's directly responsible for them all getting wiped out of existence. Doesn't matter if we didn't get on screen displays of him doing genocide directly. Nakaba shied away from showing the Demon's progress in taking over britannia anyways cuz it was probably too edgy for him.

Your implication that people call zeldris out just because he is a demon is really just baseless. Ludociel is already out of the story and Mael isn't the focus right now, meanwhile Nakaba is trying to basically make Zeldris the MC. Of course he is the one primarily getting talked about.

I never said zeldris was less bad Lol people are literally acting like he is the worst thing ever when we have merlin,gowther,and meliodas just chilling in the same chapter trying to be heroes. Lol just from my observation there are double standards DK is a clown I understand his case,meliodas gets hate cuz he a OP manny sue , zeldris gets hate cuz he did bad things as if the other characters haven't. My point is too keep the same energy for everyone if u think zeldris should die then so should most of the sins lol.

 

[Merlin918]

I never said zeldris was less bad Lol people are literally acting like he is the worst thing ever when we have merlin,gowther,and meliodas just chilling in the same chapter trying to be heroes. Lol just from my observation there are double standards DK is a clown I understand his case,meliodas gets hate cuz he a OP manny sue , zeldris gets hate cuz he did bad things as if the other characters haven't. My point is too keep the same energy for everyone if u think zeldris should die then so should most of the sins lol.

That's just not true, though. Merlin didn't directly destroy her own town and shouldn't be seen the same way as Zeldris or Ludociel. That was just the SD and DK taking vengeance indirectly, something she may not have even predicted. And even if she did know they would probably do it, that doesn't make it her fault that they do so. There's simply nothing to be done about it if she wants to get what she wants out of them. It was pretty worth it for her to get the Dark arts of the Demon Realm. Imagine if she didn't have Perfect Cube, everyone would have died against Garan. Gowther being a rapist was oddly ignored but it could be reasonably argued that current Gowther with emotions is practically a different person than his former emotionless self. There should still have been punishment , but a full on death penalty for the current Gowther doesn't make sense. Meliodas blowing up Danafor wasn't his choice and it wouldn't make sense to kill him for it since he is needed to guard the seal. These are all clearly incomparable things.

Basically you're just throwing out blanket statements with no evidence and it's embarassing. Please stop and prove points one by one. I understand Mael and Ludociel being very guilty and that this shouldn't have been ignored as it was, but 'most of the sins' are definitely not suddenly worthy of being killed off.

 

[Savior]

This is a strawman. Nobody ever said all these issues don't exist for the other charas. If anything most of the people who complained about Zeldris also complained about these characters.

Meliodas's role in the start of the holy war is way too vague to be honest. We don't know how much they fought before then. All we got shown on screen was Mel and Liz stopping a war crime and trying to prevent a genocidal war between both sides. Yes, him nuking Danafor was a big issue, to be honest it was handled poorly. His magic should've been sealed right then and he should've let Merlin do it. Would make way more sense as an explanation for his darkness getting sealed.

Ludociel is obvious but everyone knows he's evil. Nobody disagreed.

Agree on Mael being evil during holy war but tbh I liked Derierre and Monspiet dying. As mass genocidal soul eating scum they deserved it lol, if anything they deserved to be Purged and erased, not just killed physically. Mael was basically merciful.

The original Gowther was good during holy war tho he did what had to be done. As for Guila, RIP. Yeah Gowther's a rapist and was easily forgiven by the characters stupidly. Everyone knows, there's just nothing to be done about it. It's old news so nobody actively mentions it much in chapter discussion when there's little reason.

And yeah Merlin sucks.

I think a lot of people said ludo's redemption was BS. Not sure what your source even is for claiming otherwise. And it's a strawman anyway. Even if they did it doesn't make Zeldris less bad. He approved the soul eating genocide Derierre wanted on screen. It's literally a Palpatine-esque 'Commence Order 66' moment. So he's directly responsible for them all getting wiped out of existence. Doesn't matter if we didn't get on screen displays of him doing genocide directly. Nakaba shied away from showing the Demon's progress in taking over britannia anyways cuz it was probably too edgy for him.

Your implication that people call zeldris out just because he is a demon is really just baseless. Ludociel is already out of the story and Mael isn't the focus right now, meanwhile Nakaba is trying to basically make Zeldris the MC. Of course he is the one primarily getting talked about.

1 meliodas stopping the Holy war isnt vague ,cause it was doing nothing but kill people and they couldn't be together because it ,we don't know why they didn't because we didn't see the background event and meliodas probably snapped again and they decided to seal it ,and there really isn't good or bad people in survival only the people who started the war,if people are trying to kill you,you defend yourself pretty much

 

[Merlin918]

1 meliodas stopping the Holy war isnt vague ,cause it was doing nothing but kill people and they couldn't be together because it ,we don't know why they didn't because we didn't see the background event and meliodas probably snapped again and they decided to seal it ,and there really isn't good or bad people in survival only the people who started the war,if people are trying to kill you,you defend yourself pretty much

The first part of your sentence is incomprehensible. I have no idea what you are trying to say about Meliodas and the holy war. Try saying it more clearly next time so reading your post doesn't feel like a waste of time.

As for the part you said later in the sentence about Meliodas 'probably snapping',you're just making stuff up with no evidence.

Except they weren't just fighting to survive, they moved on to genocidal methods intent on wiping out the other race completely. Most people would agree that that's bad.