Discussion New Roles and New Rules Suggestion Thread

GrySun

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Submissions for new roles need to follow the next format in order to be considered:

I. [Place Holder Name]

II. [Affiliation]

III. [Short Description]

IV. [Long Description/Idea/Premise/Scope]

V. [Priority/RoleType/Interactions/other Specifics]

I. Troublemaker

II.
Town

III. Can once per game make a Day phase lynch be the top 2 voted people instead of regular 1 top voted person. Every player has 2 votes but cannot vote the same player twice.

IV. PMs the host on the night before the day he wishes to use his power on. Host announces at start of day that the 2 top voted players will be lynched.
Everyone gets 2 votes that they can use on 2 individual players. Both can be moved once like usual. Example:
!votekill1 PlayerX
!votekill2 PlayerY
!votelock2
(locks on PlayerY).

Any other format is also fine as long as players specify who they are voting and if it's a new vote or they are changing their first one.

V. Doesn't have a Priority, happens at the end of night after all other actions. Doesn't target another player. Primary role.

Since it happens at the end of a phase, the player can be both blocked and killed to prevent it happening.


I. Psychiatrist

II. Townie

III. The Psychiatrist investigates one person per night phase to see if the player has a Secondary Role. They get a "Your target has a secondary role" if that is the case, and a "Your target does not have a secondary role" if it's not. The Psychiatrist does not find out the allegiance of the target.

IV. It's a counter for scum secondaries without outright revealing them, leaving room for guess work and player reading.

V. Priority 2, Primary Role.

Current roles Approved for testing here

Rules on including those in a game:
  • A host can take any of these roles and test them in their game. Depending on results from testing the role it will either be included into the Role list or need more changes/testing.
  • A host at the very least has to announce in the opening post of the game that new roles are being tested, or alternatively even more specifically reveal the roles that are being tested.
Link to the last update post with the roles that are either close to approval or were not approved: here.
 
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Vandred

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+ Town Pirate description now matches Mafia Pirate variant (finds out what they stole if they did)

I'm still in team get-rid-of-it as far as Town Pirate is concerned, but if we have to keep it, making it less of a meme than it currently is is pretty necessary. As fun as it sounds (in theory) to let the Pirate guess which chocolate they've picked out of the box, it also comes with the day role issue and simply makes relying on stealing from someone who already claimed their role the sensible move. So letting them know would probably be better in my opinion. Of course, I'd rather just remove the role entirely instead :nerd


+ Bomb Defusers are made aware of their success (still single-successful use, however)

Might make Defusers less hesitant to use their abilities, maybe - I don't think that makes Defuser a very interesting role, though. Its usage niche seems to be small enough for townies at the moment (when was the last time a mafia bomb was defused? And how much did that impact the game?), while the mafia variant doesn't seem to need a buff, really.

I am, however, in favour of single-use abilities letting you know if they've been spent. So you wouldn't know if your target was a bomb, but you would essentially know that you weren't blocked and have now turned into a regular townie/mafia, regardless of the outcome.


+ Kamikaze Bombs no longer have the Time Bomb clause

I don't see the role being too interesting without the limited lifespan, personally. Makes me feel like it either gets randomized on Mango or will only get used as a late-game coup-de-grâce for a doomed mafia about 95% of the times. Unless the new KB wanted to kill themselves out of the game early, which I like to think should ideally never be the case, wouldn't it be more efficient for them to try to bait a mafia kill, instead of risking handing them two extra townie kills for free?


+ Bar Keeper now always invites 3 players (instead of 5...)

I believe the option was there for the BK to be able to target more people in larger games if they so wished? But yeah it doesn't seem very efficient. Not sure the option needs to be taken away from the players, but the fewer things having to be guessed out of chaotic chances, the better - so I'm in favour of this one.


+ Martyr can't switch targets anymore, but can now target 3 players.

I don't think I remember ever seeing Martyr serve its intended purpose even once, to be honest, so I'm honestly positive enough I'd also rather see the role get axed. Day killers sure don't need a combo to make them stronger, and the Martyr role otherwise stays between the thankless and the pointless. So I'm rather neutral on this.


+ Investigator now reveals all hidden roles, not just Janitors (i.e. by a mechanic)

Sure.


+ Mafia Detective only finds out the exact role of their Target if they are a townie

Big nerf to Mafia Det, not sure I like it. If it were only for TPs, it wouldn't be too important since they'd still be a no-brainer kill, block or lynch option for mafia regardless of the specific TP, but not being able to identify rival mafias would be a noticeable change to multiple-mafia-team mechanics.

So if the change were for TPs only, I think it would change almost nothing - but since it would need to include all non-townies to make sense, it would mess with tactics on who to kill, who to block and who to handle in other ways when a mafia team is dealing with more than townies only. I think it's better to keep it as it is. As Gry said, the hosts should be prepared to accept the consequences of choosing to put Mafia Det in a game.


+ Buffed Mafia Gambler: places one Hidden Vote on Target. If Target dies, Gambler gains Bulletproof protection. If the Target survives the DP, the Gambler is blocked during the NP

Hidden vote sounds a lot better than vote "corruption" to me, actually. The current issue with Gambler is that it's too easy to let everyone know your vote is being corrupted without outright spelling it out, which might not be great sportsmanship towards your opponents, but it is the most beneficial move for your own team. Which means that using the Gambler to save a teammate will mostly just delay their lynch to the next day, making it better suited for misdirection only.

At any rate, a 100% chance of success, be it for corruption or hidden vote, would also take Noble and Politician off the self-confirmed role status, which is entirely a good thing in my opinion. To be honest, I'd take a 100% hidden vote over a 50% vote change that relies on an opponent making an inconspicuous post almost every single time. BP protection would be too situational though, I agree with that.


+ Serial Killer, Mentor/Mentee, Santa Claus and Lovers win conditions stipulated more clearly

Sounds good. Just until we eventually get rid of Lovers too, obviously :hee


+ Shapeshifter modified a bit, Illusion now a main role rather than a secondary role. Also given a win condition and is still franchised and not some untermensch there for aesthetic purposes only

Gets a temporary nope from me. Illusions can still do good for their own team even if they have no action and no vote anymore, both as townie and as mafia players. But before we come to conclusions I think the current version of the role would need to be tested further, to see how Illusions feel once they find out (or strongly suspect) they have turned into one. The only opinion we got so far on how it felt like was from Gryff in Overlord game (he and desin were mafia together and both got turned into Illusions):

We already knew [Jammin] was the Shapeshifter and that by lynching him we were done for as well, but it was the best course of action because it still gave our remaining members a fighting chance. Only reason I made the fake claim was so that everyone would vote for him since I didn't want the votes to be scattered since mine and desin's votes wouldn't count. Couldn't risk his survival and targeting another one of our members.

When we investigated him we didn't know who he had targeted, we knew me and Linda were still gucci because our night actions still worked, but realistically it was likely he had targeted one of us, desin or revo seemed more likely since they never used an action thus not being able to verify if they were illusions. Santa changing gnut's role to Freeman actually backfired on us, we would have tried to lynch him that day, but instead the day was skipped and I was his next target. So when my kill failed I knew I was done, but we knew everyone's role by that point, except Juviiita's, Takuan's and Gry's...so when they all revealed, the Santa was easy to figure out because of process of elimination, so getting rid of Jammin would've left 2 Mafia, killing Santa would've made it 2 vs 4, lynch Bel, another night kill and game was over, only tricky thing was Doctor, but we had enough strength with revo and Linda to take care of them(if I understood the points thingy correctly). Ah well, was fun while it lasted.
...Which means that letting the Illusions learn they are Illusions is something that the current SS needs to be wary of, since it might backfire. Whether that's a good or a bad thing will be figured out with testing the role.

If their win condition changes, the Illusions would have to guess that in order to win, they should start working against their previous team. And that's still if they feel like they should owe the SS a victory instead of helping the teammates they played the whole game with win, mafia especially.


+ Traitor does not require all names of the Mafia they need to be killed by :derp

What Gry said :fan


So I guess that makes my approval list like this:

Agree:

+ Town Pirate description now matches Mafia Pirate variant (finds out what they stole if they did) - Either that or we put it out of its misery
+ Bomb Defusers are made aware of their single-use being spent, but not whether the outcome was successful or not
+ Bar Keeper now always invites 3 players (instead of 5...)
+ Investigator now reveals all hidden roles, not just Janitors (i.e. by a mechanic)
+ Serial Killer, Mentor/Mentee, Santa Claus and Lovers win conditions stipulated more clearly
+ Buffed Mafia Gambler: places one Hidden Vote on Target. If Target dies, Gambler gains Bulletproof protection. If the Target survives the DP, the Gambler is blocked during the NP - something of the sort

Neutral:

+ Martyr can't switch targets anymore, but can now target 3 players - I'd rather see the role go, but that's just me

Disagree:

+ Kamikaze Bombs no longer have the Time Bomb clause
+ Mafia Detective only finds out the exact role of their Target if they are a townie
+ Shapeshifter modified a bit, Illusion now a main role rather than a secondary role and wins with the Shapeshifter
+ Traitor does not require all names of the Mafia they need to be killed by
 

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+ Town Pirate description now matches Mafia Pirate variant (finds out what they stole if they did)

- Agreed, honestly it was this or simply getting it out of the role list. Its such a pointless role right now that its almost pro-mafia in most cases.



+ Bomb Defusers are made aware of their success (still single-successful use, however)

- Its funny that I wanted to test this thought in this last game. Had Erin survived and used her HT she would have been aware of her success, which is a huge advantage taking into account that 99% of times: The presence of a Town BD implies a Mafia Bomb in game. Its basically catching a mafia on spot.

But making it the norm would imply making the role too strong for that reason. I agree with Van that BD should be aware of the use of his ability, like Santa should btw (thats another matter), but he shouldn't be aware of success.



+ Kamikaze Bombs no longer have the Time Bomb clause

- Disagree, for reasons listed by Gry and Van



+ Bar Keeper now always invites 3 players (instead of 5...)

- This idea basically makes it harder to fake the role for non-townies. This is because a legit BK will want to make his action the most efficient and trackable: inviting 3 - 4 players as a maximum depending on the situation. 5 is just a no-go unless you are absolutely clueless about what to do.

The change doesn't really affect game balance tho, so Im neutral on this one.



+ Martyr can't switch targets anymore, but can now target 3 players.

- Agreed, it lifts a weight on Host's shoulders and makes the Martyr actually relevant in games with Assassin, also removes the dumb mechanic of safeguard for Cowboys and such.



+ Investigator now reveals all hidden roles, not just Janitors (i.e. by a mechanic)

- No objection in this



+ Mafia Detective only finds out the exact role of their Target if they are a townie

- Disagree, like Gry said the purpose of a Mafia Det is clear intel for the Mafia team. If we are looking for a nerf I would make it like the Janitor and have his results through a PM to player instead of the General Mafia PM like its right now.



+ Buffed Mafia Gambler: places one Hidden Vote on Target. If Target dies, Gambler gains Bulletproof protection. If the Target survives the DP, the Gambler is blocked during the NP

- I think Gambler is fine as it is right now, but I like that Noble would no longer be a self-confirming role. The BP protection would be nice in games packed with 3 killing parties and the sort.
Im neutral on this, wouldn't mind seeing the change tested.



+ Serial Killer, Mentor/Mentee, Santa Claus and Lovers win conditions stipulated more clearly

- Always assumed that in case of draw TP should win, but its true the description feels too vague, all in for the change.



+ Shapeshifter modified a bit, Illusion now a main role rather than a secondary role. Also given a win condition and is still franchised and not some untermensch there for aesthetic purposes only

- Disagree, maybe its because I only tested the role once but I think its absolutely necessary that the Illusions aren't made aware of their change. Im actually in favour of making it harder for them to figure out because the danger that poses the SS is that he can stealthily remove people from the game without anyone noticing.
People will already know they are illusions when they notice their vote wasn't accounted for a lynch anyway, dont think it needs a change till the role is used more.



+ Traitor does not require all names of the Mafia they need to be killed by

- Disagree, Traitor definitely needs all names so he can cooperate with his real allegiance, else it becomes too much of a burden to mafia.


---------------o---------------​


Since we are proposing changes, I'll also propose a couple of my own:


+ Santa should be aware of whether his present was sent or not: This is even more necessary now that he has control over which gifts he hands, if he sends Gift #4 he should know he cannot select that one anymore (because it already reached a player).

+ Conditions for Assassin should be stipulated more clearly: This is to avoid crazy situations like the Assassin making a kill in the Night and then another one in the following Dayphase, like it happened in Fumetsu game.
 

GrySun

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+ Santa should be aware of whether his present was sent or not: This is even more necessary now that he has control over which gifts he hands, if he sends Gift #4 he should know he cannot select that one anymore (because it already reached a player).
I assumed that‘s how it would work when he knew his gifts, else he wouldn‘t know which one he has left if by day 6 he hasn‘t won. So yes this I agree with.

+ Conditions for Assassin should be stipulated more clearly: This is to avoid crazy situations like the Assassin making a kill in the Night and then another one in the following Dayphase, like it happened in Fumetsu game.
Sounds like a legal move though no? It only prohibits the mafia‘s next night kill. Meaning he can kill N1 and D2, but can‘t kill N2 if he killed D2. He can kill N1 since he didn‘t kill D1 etc. Thought it‘s described enough.
 

Copy Panda

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Alright once @Farfalla shares her thoughts I'll summarize your comments and we can come to a final decision on this

@Lambu @Vandred Idk if you saw the other role lists (i.e. with the roles rephrased), but what do you think of that? Is a list with more homogenous wording, or my attempt at it anyway, usable?
 

Farfalla

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>.< Sorry. I'll try to post bits then.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Lmao, poor Martyr listed as "daytime killing"
 

Lambu

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@Lambu @Vandred Idk if you saw the other role lists (i.e. with the roles rephrased), but what do you think of that? Is a list with more homogenous wording, or my attempt at it anyway, usable?
Got a quick glimpse of the rephrasing and most of them are ok, others are a little confusing or even change the concept of roles like the PGO case. We will need more discussion on this matter but thanks for the effort, my head hurts just from thinking about writing all that :mono

Sounds like a legal move though no? It only prohibits the mafia‘s next night kill. Meaning he can kill N1 and D2, but can‘t kill N2 if he killed D2. He can kill N1 since he didn‘t kill D1 etc. Thought it‘s described enough.

Idk man, I've always had a different concept regarding Mafia Night Kills.
Took this from the Rules Thread:


- During the "day" phase, all of the players debate the identities of the Mafia members and at the end each person will vote to eliminate a suspect. This is carried out in the "game thread". In the game's "night" phase the Mafia will privately discuss who they should kill. They will then send this person’s name to the host, as well as other actions. Play will then continue until all of the Mafia have been eliminated, or until the Mafia reaches the same number as Townies. -

-
During the night phase, the mafia members will collaborate and choose who they want to kill. They will not do this in the thread, but via PM's with each other/other alternative communication channels approved by the host, such as piratepad. -


From the previous I understand this: The Mafia group is granted a Night Kill that they have to use on a player they decide on by consensus. This Night Kill is to be performed by any Mafia Member of their choice in exchange for any other Night Action that the killer has (save the Mafia Pirate that cannot kill).

Then we have this:

  • Assassin (Mafia): The Assassin is a Mafia Member that may choose to kill at Daytime instead of the Night. Unlike Daytime Vigilantes he is not doing the Daykill publicly but via PM to the Host. (Game 10)

This description shows that the Assassin has the power to perform the Night kill granted to the Mafia in plain Dayphase. This way, the killing can avoid any investigative role's tracking (like Spy), avoid blocks or redirects, even avoid Doc protection or Hider's hiding. Its basically an unstoppable, untraceable kill, way better than a Strongman and with unlimited uses.
Only the Martyr could "stop" it, and it doesn't really stop it because even if the Martyr is successful he will die either way...

This makes it the most powerful Mafia role by far, which is alright depending on the Game design, but thats the reason I always thought said action take the Night Kill from the previous NightPhase, not the next one. If so, then a single Mafia group would be able to make their Night Kill AND another unstoppable/untraceable kill the following day...

If it was me I would even restrict the Assassin's kill to the one that the whole Mafia Group agreed on in the previous night too, so the Assassin can only kill who their teammates agreed on previously unless said target is already dead for whatever reason. Still, it would take away the paranoia of the role reveals in games with Assassin so it has its drawbacks and wont press the change for that reason.
Now nerfing the Assassin to make its kill take the place of the previous Mafia Night Kill so no "follow-ups" happen is quite reasonable imo.
 

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+ Town Pirate description now matches Mafia Pirate variant (finds out what they stole if they did)
Awn man, the fun is now removed! But yeah, agreedo '-'

+ Bomb Defusers are made aware of their success (still single-successful use, however)
Agreedo.

+ Kamikaze Bombs no longer have the Time Bomb clause
Hmmm not a fan of this one. It's a Kamikaze afterall, it should suicide ò.ó!

+ Bar Keeper now always invites 3 players (instead of 5...)
YES! YES! YES!
Anything that nerfs that thing... or makes it less utterly cancerly random...

+ Martyr can't switch targets anymore, but can now target 3 players.
Agreedo.

+ Investigator now reveals all hidden roles, not just Janitors (i.e. by a mechanic)
Agreedo.

+ Mafia Detective only finds out the exact role of their Target if they are a townie
Hmm not a fan of this one either. It's a powerful role, serves many mafia strategies and players love it 'cause of how important it is. I think that's gonna ruin a bit of its fun and limit mafia plays. And I don't recall seeing a reason to nerf it... like... a game that got compromised by the M. Det. being the way it is. Gonna read the other opinions... Finding out another scummy party in game alone is already the most relevant thing - and dangerous for the others - that the M. Det. can get.

+ Buffed Mafia Gambler: places one Hidden Vote on Target. If Target dies, Gambler gains Bulletproof protection. If the Target survives the DP, the Gambler is blocked during the NP
I'm indifferent about this one. I dislike those convoluted roles anyway, and they add so little to the game I don't care if they get blocked or become unskilled xD

+ Serial Killer, Mentor/Mentee, Santa Claus and Lovers win conditions stipulated more clearly
Agreedo. Altho it still looks hard as balls for them to win a game lmao.

+ Shapeshifter modified a bit, Illusion now a main role rather than a secondary role. Also given a win condition and is still franchised and not some untermensch there for aesthetic purposes only
Didn't like it ç.ç This one can get complicated, no? If it's unknowingly, how do you tell a mafia, mason or anything else that uses a pad that the person can't access it anymore? Feels like you removed the guessing game for some roles (pirate and defuser) and added it for this one xD

+ Traitor does not require all names of the Mafia they need to be killed by :derp
Agreedo. Me gusta.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

If it was me I would even restrict the Assassin's kill to the one that the whole Mafia Group agreed on in the previous night too, so the Assassin can only kill who their teammates agreed on previously unless said target is already dead for whatever reason. Still, it would take away the paranoia of the role reveals in games with Assassin so it has its drawbacks and wont press the change for that reason.
I kinda don't like this. It's actually a buff instead of a nerf. The "issue" with the Assassin is that the kill is often a gamble, that costs the player's team their next kill. That's quite big to me... and it does take engagement and coordination to go around this risk (as in managing the wacko that got the role). The mafia team is already able to do what you proposed (discuss a target to kill in advance and go for it), no need to limit the wackos (or else you'd have to limit all of the mafia targets... a Det. can still decide to ignore his team and investigate whoever he/she prefers, and that's also a powerful role).
--- Double Post Merged, ---

I haven't read the other comments yet... if later I'm able to, I'll try.
 
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Lambu

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I kinda don't like this. It's actually a buff instead of a nerf. The "issue" with the Assassin is that the kill if often a gamble, that costs the players team their next kill. That's quite big to me... and it does take engagement and coordination to go around this risk (as in managing the wacko that got the role). The mafia team is already able to do what you proposed (discuss a target to kill in advance and go for it), no need to limit the wackos (or else you'd have to limit all of the mafia targets... a Det. can still decide to ignore his team and investigate whoever he/she prefers, and that's also a powerful role).
True, I would only propose that as a way to neutralize the huge scope that the Assassin gets.

I still remember the deadly combo Mafia Det-Assassin from RWBY game... I was killed at that time because Takuan investigated me and discovered I was Mafia Boss, so shinobi instantly disposed of me, that control "Post-NightPhase" can be game-breaking if the balance is not set well.
Still, I admit that removing the free-will of Assassin would take away the fun of uncertainty and chaos that the role presents.

The Double assassination is a different matter tho, that follow-up unblockable kill is just too much.
 

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Might have missed or misunderstood something, but here's the first revised edition of Panda's 2019 Role List Overhaul:

TOWNIES
TOWNIE TOWNIES

[Does it need to say "Townies" everywhere? Just "Recruitment", "Voting", "Investigation", "Kill Prevention" would suffice as category names, imo. Also after every role name, it's redundant to see every single role say "Townie" if even TSC has it]

Regular Townie (Townie): The Player thinks they are a 'Regular Townie'. They actually are a Regular Townie - a townie can vote, think and deduce their way to success on the thread.

Miller (Townie): The Player thinks they are a 'Regular Townie'. They actually are a Miller - a townie who counts as a non-townie to certain 'Investigation' abilities. When they die the Player is revealed to be a 'Miller'.
[Begs the question, 'Which Investigative abilities?' - should say it's just Detectives]

Death Miller (Townie): The Player thinks they are a 'Regular Townie'. They actually are a Death Miller - a townie who counts as a non-townie to certain 'Investigation' abilities. When they die the Player is revealed to be a 'Mafia Member'.
[Same as above]

RECRUITING TOWNIES
Sleeper (Townie): The Player thinks they are a '[Regular] Townie'. They actually are a Sleeper - a townie who joins the Mafia they are killed by during the Night Phase.

Recruiting Mason (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Recruiting Mason ‘Recruits’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If the Target is a townie, their role is changed to 'Mason'. If the Target is a non-townie, the Mason Recruiter dies. Masons townies can communicate with each other at night.

Mason (Townie): The Mason is a townie who can communicate with other Masons during the Night Phase in a chat provided by the Host.

Threesome Candidate (TSC) (Townie): [At the start of the game, the Lover couple is notified that there is a TSC in the game.] During the Day Phase, the TSC ‘Recruits’ [does he though?] by guessing what two players are the Lovers in a PM to the Host. The Host informs the Player how many Lovers they guessed correctly (0, 1 or both). The TSC joins the Lovers if they guess both Lovers correctly. If one of the Lovers die, the TSC may guess the remaining Lover. If the last remaining Lover dies, the TSC dies the following Night Phase.
[Still lacks the detail that he can only win with his Lovers, unless that's never been a thing... Which I think should be a thing]

VOTING TOWNIES
Healthy Townie (Townie): A Healthy Townie will always be able to vote healthily and cannot be made to be unable to vote by the Sickly Townie [Should mention NVD and UVD being cured imo].
[Also odd to see it separated from Sickly, no need for alphabetical ordering, if you ask me]

Innocent Child (Townie): The Player is informed beforehand [at the start of the game? It's less unnecessarily vague] by the Host during what Day Phase they will be 'Revealed' to be an Innocent Child on the thread.

Noble (Townie): The Player is penalized for revealing they currently are a Noble on the thread. [* more about this at the bottom] During the Day Phase, the Noble anonymously ‘Votes’ for one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Target receives one "anonymous vote".

Politician (Townie): The Player is penalized for revealing they currently are a Politician on the thread. [*] During the Day Phase, the Politician anonymously ‘Votes’ [he still has his regular vote though, so I'd change the wording here] in PM by designating one Target to receive a vote and one player who can vote who has to place the vote. The vote-placing player receives a PM informing them they must vote [lock? Can they change after?] for the Target for without revealing why on the thread (or they are penalized [how much?]).

Restless Spirit (Townie): During the Day Phase after they have been killed [or lynched? So I'd just say "after they die"], the Restless Spirit ‘Votes’ by posting one message on the thread, vote locking onto one Target and explaining why.

Sickly Townie (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Sickly Townie ‘Infects’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Target cannot vote the following Day Phase.


INVESTIGATING TOWNIES
Sane Detective (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Sane Detective 'Investigates' one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player [Detective] receives an "Innocent" result for townies and "Guilty" result for non-townies. Detectives do not know about their sanity and must deduce this through gameplay [Don't think this part is necessary. Less words are better! Especially if they're repeated four times]

Insane Detective (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Insane Detective 'Investigates' one Player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player [Detective] receives an "Innocent" result for non-townies and "Guilty" result for Townies. Detectives do not know about their sanity and must deduce this through gameplay

Naive Detective (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Naive Detective 'Investigates' one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player [Detective] always receives an “Innocent” result. Detectives do not know about their sanity and must deduce this through gameplay

Paranoid Detective (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Paranoid Detective 'Investigates' one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player [Detective] always receives a “Guilty” result. Detectives do not know about their sanity and must deduce this through gameplay

Spy (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Spy 'Investigates' one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player receives a (list of) ‘Name(s)’ (no ‘Actions’ or ‘Roles’) targeted by their Target player, and only if they targeted any.
[What's with those confusing brackets x) Spy should always receive one name save for special mechanics imo, BK included. So I suggest:]

During the Night Phase, the Spy 'Investigates' one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If that player targeted someone with a Night Action, the Spy receives the name of the action's target. The Spy doesn't learn actions or roles.

[Can make it 'the name(s) of the action's target(s)' if want to keep that clause]


Paranoid Spy (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Paranoid Spy 'Investigates' one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player [Paranoid Spy] always receives a random ‘Name’ (no ‘Actions’ or ‘Roles’), whether their Target can or has used an Action or not.

Investigator (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Investigator 'Investigates' one dead player whose role is hidden [as] (???) by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player [Investigator] receives their Target’s hidden role.

Mortician (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Mortician 'Investigates' one dead player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player [Mortician] receives a list of ‘Actions’ (no ‘Names’ or ‘Roles’) used on their Target player, in chronological order.

[Might have noticed that I think specifying the role instead of "the Player" is better for investigative roles :XD Just to make descriptions as impervious to multiple interpretations as possible, even silly ones]


DOCTOR TOWNIES
[I'd personally group "Kill Prevention" roles (Docs, Hider, Bodyguard, BP) together and leave the others (Prostitute/Escort, BK, Jesus, Freeman) in "Disruption"]

Sane Doctor (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Sane Doctor ‘Protects’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Target cannot be killed by Night Actions [during that Night Phase]. The Doctor does not know their sanity.

Insane Doctor (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Insane Doctor ‘Protects’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. There is a 50% chance the Insane Doctor kills their Target rather than Protecting them. The Doctor does not know their sanity.

Naive Doctor (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Naive Doctor ‘Protects’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. There is a 0% chance the Naive Doctor protects their Target [so 100% chance he kills? :e3 I'd just say his action does nothing at all]. The Doctor does not know their sanity.


DISRUPTING TOWNIES
Bar Keeper (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Bar Keeper invites and ‘Blocks’ [?] three players by PM’ing their Targets name to the Host. One of the three players is randomly picked, and then randomly ‘Blocked’, ‘Redirected’ onto a random target or ‘Role Revealed’. The Bar Keeper is only informed of what effect occurred.
[Lacks the description of the effects. Their Night Action is blocked or redirected even if they don't have one, and 'Role Revealed' is vague for "their role is revealed to the BK".]

Escort (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Escort ‘Blocks’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Target cannot use their Night Action.
[Why no Prostitute anymore :feelsbadman Feels like it's too late for naming uniformity :P ]

Hider (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Hider ‘Hides’ by hiding [Hides by hiding...?] behind one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If the Hider is targeted by a ‘Kill’ action while hiding, the action fails. If the Hider Hides behind their Killer or the killer’s team, or the Target of the Hider is targeted and killed, the Hider dies.

Bodyguard (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Bodyguard ‘Redirects’ [confusing wording here too, imo] by protecting one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If their Target is targeted by a ‘Kill’ action, the attack is redirected onto the Bodyguard instead.

Bulletproof Townie (Townie): The Bulletproof Townie is 'Bulletproof' [are these keyword insertions necessary?] and cannot be Killed by Actions occurring during the Night Phase.

Jesus (Townie): If the Sheppard is Lynched or Killed, the Player is 'Revealed' to be Jesus, God bless, and will be 'Revived' the second Day Phase after dying, amen. The Player becomes a 'Regular Townie' after using this ability.

Freeman (Townie): If the Freeman dies, the next Day Phase is skipped. All role effects occurring on that Day Phase are instead moved to the following Day Phase.


BOMB TOWNIES
Bomb (Townie): If the Bomb is Lynched or Killed, the Player 'Explodes', killing the Player responsible for killing the Bomb or placing the last vote on them.

Time Bomb (Townie): The Host informs the Player what Night Phase they will 'Blow Up'. During that Night Phase, the Time Bomb ‘Blows Up’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player and the Target are both killed.

Kamikaze Bomb (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Kamikaze Bomb ‘Blows Up’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player and the Target are both killed. If the Kamikaze Bomb is Lynched or Killed, the player responsible for killing the Kamikaze Bomb or placing the last vote on them is killed as well.

Bomb Defuser (BD) (Townie): During the Night Phase, the BD ‘Defuses’ one player they think to be a Bomb by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If the Target is indeed Defused, the BD is informed of this and becomes a 'Regular Townie'.


SPITEFUL TOWNIES
Witch (Townie): Right after the Player is Lynched or Killed during the Day Phase, the Witch openly 'Spites' a Target on the thread by announcing their Target. The Target is killed the second Night after being Spited.
[Doesn't the Witch "spite"/curse in secret? Also not sure about daykills triggering her and VT too]

Vengeful Townie (Townie): Right after the Player is Lynched or Killed during the Day Phase, the Vengeful Townie openly 'Spites' a Target on the thread by announcing their Target [who gets immediately killed by the Host]. Upon resolution, the Host then eliminates the Target from the game.
[No need to account for delays due to absence in the role description, imo]

Paranoid Gun Owner (PGO) (Townie): If the PGO is Lynched or Killed, the Player 'Spites', the player responsible for killing the PGO or placing the last vote on them instead. The Player becomes a 'Regular Townie' after using this ability.
[??? This description is just incorrect. If he's targeted by any action during the night, he kills that player instead. Only one shot in his gun, no agency of his own. Where did you get all the rest...?]


ERUDITE TOWNIES
Pirate (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Pirate ‘Steals’ the Main Role of one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. Upon success, their Target’s role is (unknowingly) changed to ‘Regular Townie’, and the Pirate is informed of what role they have Stolen. If the Pirate attempts to steal the Main Role of a non-Townie, the Pirate dies.

Sane Apprentice (Townie): During two Night Phases, the Apprentice ‘Acquires’ the Main Role of one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If the target is killed or blocked, the Apprentice’s action fails. Upon successfully PM’ing the name of the same target twice, the Apprentice is informed of what role they Acquired. If the target is non-town, the Apprentice dies. If the target is a mason, the Apprentice joins their mason group as a Mason.
[This description could use some work imo. Also lacks that they don't know their own sanity, so I'd suggest:]

During the Night Phase, the Apprentice tries to 'acquire'/'learn' the Main Role of one player by PM’ing the Target's name to the Host. If the target is killed or blocked, the Apprentice fails to learn during that Night Phase. Upon successfully learning from the same target twice, the Apprentice is informed of what role they 'acquired'. If the target is non-town, the Sane Apprentice dies upon acquisition. If the target is a mason, the Apprentice joins their mason group as a Mason. The Sane Apprentice doesn't know their own sanity.

Insane Apprentice (Townie): During two Night Phases, the Insane Apprentice ‘Acquires’ the Main Role of one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If the target is killed or blocked, the Insane Apprentice’s action fails. Upon successfully PM’ing the name of the same target twice, the Insane Apprentice is informed of what role they Acquired. If the Target is mafia, the Insane Apprentice joins their mafia group as a Mafia Apprentice. If the Target is a Mentee, the Insane Apprentice joins their mentor group as a Mentee.
[Similar changes as above, or I'd rather go for:]

The Insane Apprentice is an Apprentice that doesn't die if they learn from a non-townie. If they acquire the role of a mafia, they join their mafia group as a Mafia Apprentice/RM/UM. If they target a Mentee, the Insane Apprentice joins their mentor group as a new Mentee. If they target a different Third Party, they acquire their role and become a new, independent Third Party player. The Insane Apprentice doesn't know their own sanity.



DAYTIME KILLING TOWNIES
Daytime Vigilante (DTV) (Townie): During the Day Phase, the DTV openly ‘Day Kills’ on the thread by announcing their Target. Upon resolution, the Host then eliminates the Target from the game. The Player [DTV] becomes a 'Regular Townie' after using this ability.

Badass Cowboy (BC) (Townie): During the Day Phase, the BC openly ‘Day Kills’ on the thread by announcing their Target. There is a 50% chance the Player [Badass Cowboy] dies instead. Upon resolution, the Host then eliminates the loser of the duel from the game.

Prosecutor (Townie): During the Day Phase, the Prosecutor openly ‘Day Kills’ a Target they think to be Mafia on the thread. During the end of the Day Phase, the Host reveals if the Target is Mafia. If the Target is not Mafia, the Player dies instead. Upon resolution, the Host then eliminates the loser of the duel from the game.
[Liked the old description better, mostly. How about:]

During the Day Phase, the Prosecutor can openly accuse a player they think to be non-townie on the thread. At the end of the Day Phase, the Host kills the Target is they are non-townie, or the Prosecutor if the Target is townie. The Prosecutor becomes a 'Regular Townie' after using this ability.


Martyr (Townie): The player is penalized for revealing they currently are a Martyr on the thread. [*] During the Day Phase, the Martyr ‘Protects’ for three player by PM’ing their Target’s names to the Host. If one of the three Target were to be targeted by an Action or be Lynched by town during the Day Phase, the Martyr is targeted instead.


MAFIA
[Not too sure about the role order here, but it's not too important. It's odd to see Regular Mafia at the bottom though]

CAPOS
Mafia Boss (Mafia): The Mafia Boss is considered a 'Townie' by 'Investigating' [Townie Det?] actions.

Mafia Assassin (Mafia): During the Day Phase, the Mafia Assassin ‘Day Kills’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. Upon resolution, the Host then eliminates the Target from the game. The Mafia cannot use another Killing ability on the same [following] night [if] they use the Players [Assassin's] Day Kill ability.

Mafia Mason (Mafia): A Mafia Mason is a Mafia who can communicate with other Masons at during the Night Phase in a chat provided by the Host. The player is pro-Mafia but appears to be a Mason to other Masons.
[Should be mentioned that he needs to be a starting Mason, I believe]

Mafia Janitor (Mafia): During the Night Phase, if the Mafia Janitor 'Kills', they may 'Clean Up' up their Target as well. [The roles of] Cleaned Up Targets roles remain hidden [as] (???) till the Janitor dies. The Janitor is informed of the role of their Target, however.

Mafia Poisoner (Mafia): During the Night Phase, if the Mafia Poisoner 'Kills', they may 'Spite' [just call it poison x) ] their Target instead. The Target is killed the second Night after being Spited. The Mafia cannot use another Killing ability on the same night they use the Players Spite ability.

During the Night Phase, the Mafia Poisoner may choose to 'poison' their Target as their killing action. The poisoned Target will die on the next night. A 'Kill Prevention' role can only save a poisoned player on the night they get poisoned/they would die from the poison. The Mafia cannot use another Killing ability on the same night they use a Poisoner's ability.

Mafia Strongman (Mafia): During the Night Phase, if the Mafia Strongman 'Kills', they may 'Strongarm' their Target as well. The Mafia Strongman cannot be 'Blocked' or 'Redirected' carrying out this kill, and the Target cannot 'Hide' or be 'Protected' [will be killed regardless of 'hiding', 'protection', or 'Bulletproof' status]. The Player becomes a 'Regular Mafia Member' after using this ability.


MADE MEN
Mafia Bomb (Mafia): If the Mafia Bomb is Lynched or Killed, the Player 'Explodes', killing the player responsible for killing the Bomb or placing the last vote on them.

Mafia Bomb Defuser (MBD) (Mafia): During the Night Phase, the MBD ‘Defuses’ one player they think to be a Bomb by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If the Target is indeed Defused, the MBD is informed of this and becomes a 'Regular Mafia Member'.

Mafia Detective (Mafia): During the Night Phase, the Mafia Detective 'Investigates' one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The player receives a "[ROLE]" result for Townies and "????" result for non-Townies. The Mafia Detective cannot 'Kill' during the night they Investigate.

Mafia Escort (Mafia): During the Night Phase, the Mafia Escort ‘Blocks’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The target cannot use their Night action. The Mafia Escort cannot 'Kill' during the night they Block.

Mafia Gambler (Mafia): During the Day Phase, the Mafia Gambler anonymously ‘Votes’ in PM by designating one Target to receive a vote and one player who can vote who must place the vote. The vote placing player receives a PM, and must place their vote on the Mafia Gamblers target without revealing why (or they are penalized). If the Target dies during the Day Phase, the Mafia Gambler becomes 'Bulletproof' the following Night Phase. If the Target doesn’t die, the Mafia Gambler is 'Blocked' the following night instead.

Mafia Pirate (Mafia) During the Night Phase, the Mafia Pirate ‘Steals’ the Main Role of one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. Upon success, their Target’s role is (unknowingly) changed to ‘Regular Townie’, and the Mafia Pirate is informed of what role they Stolen. If the Mafia Pirate attempts to steal the Main Role of a non-Townie, the Mafia Pirate dies. If the Mafia Pirate successfully Steals an ability, they can only Kill if the stolen ability allows for that. [Not a wording issue, but I'd honestly remove the killing limitation tbh]


ASSOCIATES
Mafia Burden (Mafia): If the Mafia Burden dies, the next Night Phase is skipped. All role effects occurring on that Night Phase are instead moved to the following Night Phase.

Mafia Member (Mafia): The Player and the Mafia thinks they are a 'Regular Mafia Member'. They actually are. Their goal is to survive for the good of their family. They can vote on the thread at day and decide on who to Kill in private at night.

Unskilled Mafia Member (Mafia): The Player and the Mafia thinks they are a 'Regular Mafia Member'. They are actually an Unskilled Mafia Member. There is a 50% chance that a Kill carried out by the Player fails.

THIRD PARTY
Serial Killer
(Third Party): The Serial Killer operates as an independent party. During the Night Phase, the Serial Killer ‘Kills’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Serial Killer wins by being eliminating all other players. Eventual 'Draws' are resolved in the Serial Killer's favour.

Mentor (Third Party): The Mentor operates as an independent party. If they do not have a Mentee, during the Night Phase, the Mentor ‘Recruits’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If the Target is a townie, their role is changed to 'Mentee'. If the Target is a non-townie, the Mentor dies. [not how the role currently works] The Mentor and their Mentee can communicate with each other at night. If the Mentor and Mentee are both alive, they may 'Kill' one player by sending a PM to the Host. The Mentor and Mentee win by being eliminating all other players. Eventual 'Draws' are resolved in the Mentor and Mentee's favour.

Mentee (Third Party): A Mentee is a player who has been recruited by a Mentor. They can talk to the Mentor privately at Night, but dies the same [Day or] Night the Mentor dies. The Mentor and their Mentee can communicate with each other at night. [redundant?] If the Mentor and Mentee are both alive, they [one of them] may 'Kill' one player by sending a PM to the Host. The Mentor and Mentee win by being eliminating all other players. Eventual 'Draws' are resolved in the Mentor and Mentee's favour.

Santa Claus (Third Party): The Santa Claus operates as an independent party. The Host presents Santa Claus with 5 Presents. [Should illustrate what presents can be, imo - "they can be anything ranging from role changes, to additional votes, to DEATH BY POISON" or the like :lambirb ] During the Night Phase, the Serial Killer ‘Gifts’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Santa Claus wins by successfully Gifting the last of their Presents. The Player knows the content of all gifts and can freely gift them in any order they see fit.

Shapeshifter (Third Party): During the Night Phase, the Shapeshifter ‘Hides’ by hiding behind one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If the Shapeshifter is targeted by a ‘Kill’ action while hiding, the action fails. If the Shapeshifter ‘Hides’ behind their Killer or the killer’s team, or the Target of the Shapeshifter is targeted and killed, the Shapeshifter dies. If the Shapeshifters Hiding was successful and the Target remains alive, the Target becomes an 'Illusion'. The Shapeshifter and Illusions win when they equal or outnumber the remaining players alive.

Illusion (Third Party): If the Player is successfully targeted by the Shapeshifter, their Role (unknowingly) is change to Illusion. If they are targeted by any Night Action, or the Shapeshifter dies, the Illusion dies. The Shapeshifter and Illusions win when they equal or outnumber the remaining players alive.

SECONDARY ROLES
[Yep, I think we can leave the (Third Party), (Neutral), (Mafia) and (Townie) faction designation for the Secondary Roles category only]

Lovers
(Third Party): Two Players from different factions are given the Lovers secondary role. The Lovers operates as a Third party. During the Night Phase, they can communicate with one another. The Lovers win by being the last remaining Survivors. If one Lover dies, the remaining Lover commits suicide on the following night.

Unlimited Voter Disease (UVD) (Neutral): During the Day Phase, a Player with UVD cannot lock their vote, but can change their vote an unlimited amount of times. During the Night Phase, a player with UVD ‘Infects’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player passes on the Secondary Role by Infecting a player. If the Target is a Healthy Townie, the UVD will be cured instead.

Not Voter Disease (NVD) (Neutral): During the Day Phase, a Player with NVD cannot vote. During the Night Phase, a player with NVD ‘Infects’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player passes on the Secondary Role by Infecting a player. If the Target is a Healthy Townie, the NVD will be cured instead.

Traitor (Mafia): The Player is assigned a townie role, but they can only win with the Mafia. The Traitor joins the Mafia as a Regular Mafia Member if they are killed by them during the Night Phase. The Traitor is given a Name(s) of Member(s) of the Mafia team they must be 'Killed' and 'Recruited' by. The Player counts as a non-townie towards Night Actions.

Naive Traitor (Townie): The Player thinks they are a 'Traitor'. They actually are a Naive Traitor - a townie who has been given incorrect [random?] Names. Their win condition and townie status remains unchanged.


Most are subjective wording issues, and I also left out the roles like SS or Townie Pirate that are currently being reanalyzed. Other times it's just me nitpicking, but not always :nerd

In general, I'm not big on the keyword system ('Investigates', 'Kills', 'Actions', 'Roles', ...) and I find the excess of capital letters to make it less nice and easy to read. Other than that, I think the rework is good.

[*] As for the penalties for revealing day roles, as I mentioned some time ago I believe the rule was set in order to punish fake usage of those roles - like going "Daykill Panda!" when you aren't a DTV, or a mafia getting through the day by accusing someone like a Prosecutor. Otherwise, I don't think it makes much sense to make the roles unclaimable. You can either confirm them outright eventually, or you can easily hint at them without saying the role name out loud, essentially making the penalties a meme trap for careless players.

So I would remove the penalty for claiming day roles altogether.
 

Juviii

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True, I would only propose that as a way to neutralize the huge scope that the Assassin gets.

I still remember the deadly combo Mafia Det-Assassin from RWBY game... I was killed at that time because Takuan investigated me and discovered I was Mafia Boss, so shinobi instantly disposed of me, that control "Post-NightPhase" can be game-breaking if the balance is not set well.
Still, I admit that removing the free-will of Assassin would take away the fun of uncertainty and chaos that the role presents.

The Double assassination is a different matter tho, that follow-up unblockable kill is just too much.
That was the best part of the game though... :gwahThat allows for the chance of creating fun individual strategies and making the game more unpredictable and fun but that's just my unworthy opinion.
 

Lambu

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As for the penalties for revealing day roles, as I mentioned some time ago I believe the rule was set in order to punish fake usage of those roles - like going "Daykill Panda!" when you aren't a DTV, or a mafia getting through the day by accusing someone like a Prosecutor. Otherwise, I don't think it makes much sense to make the roles unclaimable. You can either confirm them outright eventually, or you can easily hint at them without saying the role name out loud, essentially making the penalties a meme trap for careless players.

So I would remove the penalty for claiming day roles altogether.
I second this, even if I understand why the penalty for claiming Daytime roles exists, right now it just happens like the politician vote and people hint at it.
Now I still believe that faking daykill commands like "Daykill Player X" or "I accuse Player X of being guilty" should be punished, to avoid easy scapeways in lynches.

That was the best part of the game though... :gwahThat allows for the chance of creating fun individual strategies and making the game more unpredictable and fun but that's just my unworthy opinion.
Im sure its fun, and if I was Assassin one day I would probably think that aswell, but that doesn't change the fact its way too powerful.
I just put the Mafia Det - Assassin case because it was rather recent, but the same refined targetting by having control of it during DayPhases could be applied to pretty much anything related to the previous night actions. If the coodination between teammates and Assassin is good enough they can neutralize anything that they want (save the Bulletproof) and at any time they want too, which is fun, sure, but not really fair to all the other parties.

With Assassin as it is right now, I would only put one in a team with a Burden and a Mafia Lover in the same group :XD
 

GrySun

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I second this, even if I understand why the penalty for claiming Daytime roles exists, right now it just happens like the politician vote and people hint at it.
Now I still believe that faking daykill commands like "Daykill Player X" or "I accuse Player X of being guilty" should be punished, to avoid easy scapeways in lynches.



Im sure its fun, and if I was Assassin one day I would probably think that aswell, but that doesn't change the fact its way too powerful.
I just put the Mafia Det - Assassin case because it was rather recent, but the same refined targetting by having control of it during DayPhases could be applied to pretty much anything related to the previous night actions. If the coodination between teammates and Assassin is good enough they can neutralize anything that they want (save the Bulletproof) and at any time they want too, which is fun, sure, but not really fair to all the other parties.

With Assassin as it is right now, I would only put one in a team with a Burden and a Mafia Lover in the same group :XD
Why save the BP? Assassin can kill him at day.

Still no time to comment on the text changes.
 

Vandred

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This description shows that the Assassin has the power to perform the Night kill granted to the Mafia in plain Dayphase. This way, the killing can avoid any investigative role's tracking (like Spy), avoid blocks or redirects, even avoid Doc protection or Hider's hiding. Its basically an unstoppable, untraceable kill, way better than a Strongman and with unlimited uses.
Only the Martyr could "stop" it, and it doesn't really stop it because even if the Martyr is successful he will die either way...

This makes it the most powerful Mafia role by far, which is alright depending on the Game design, but thats the reason I always thought said action take the Night Kill from the previous NightPhase, not the next one. If so, then a single Mafia group would be able to make their Night Kill AND another unstoppable/untraceable kill the following day...

If it was me I would even restrict the Assassin's kill to the one that the whole Mafia Group agreed on in the previous night too, so the Assassin can only kill who their teammates agreed on previously unless said target is already dead for whatever reason. Still, it would take away the paranoia of the role reveals in games with Assassin so it has its drawbacks and wont press the change for that reason.
Now nerfing the Assassin to make its kill take the place of the previous Mafia Night Kill so no "follow-ups" happen is quite reasonable imo.
I don't really get the follow-up issue. A single mafia group making a nightkill and an Assassin kill on the following day is weaker than the Assassin killing on two consecutive days, no? And it only really becomes an issue for D1, since Assassins rarely seem to want to kill on that day (which makes it a self-nerf rather than a buff though) while you'd want to use Assassin every time you're able otherwise.

Regardless of whether they have an Assassin or not, a mafia team still gets one kill per day/cycle, starting with D1/N1. If they choose to make it N1/D2 instead of D1/D2, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to.


With Assassin as it is right now, I would only put one in a team with a Burden and a Mafia Lover in the same group :XD
Might as well not give him any teammates at that point :lambirb

But regarding the refined targeting offered by Mafia Det or other circumstances, that just means the hosts need to be aware of what can happen if they put several mafia power roles in the same team with Assassin, or what can happen with multiple mafia teams that don't all have an Assassin with them. And to be fair, the mafia having to "store" their kill for the next day doesn't change much in that regard.



At any rate, the restriction about having to agree on the Assassin's target beforehand gets a big no from me, it's essentially not even a daykill anymore, just a delayed nightkill.

As for changing the order of precedence from day to night... it's not a full no yet. I can see the pros to the change; the mafia can recoup from the loss of a daykilled/lynched Assassin by immediately starting to kill on the following night, the "democratic" side of a mafia team deciding kills together is strengthened somewhat, and Assassin becomes slightly less of a broken, overpowered role that simply bypasses or one-ups several other roles than it currently is.

Still, the biggest change would be the shift of freedom/authority/responsibility for Assassin; as things are now, he is always able to choose if and whom he wants to kill at any given day, so he can adapt freely to any development the day brings without much sweat. If his kill has to be "stored", then that freedom is relegated to a previous team decision, while it also puts a heavier burden on the kill itself; if the Assassin dies during the night, for instance, the kill will have been wasted - and if the Assassin believes he'd better lie low for whatever reason and not strike because of something that happens during the day, he will also have wasted that "stored" kill.

The point is whether we think those are changes that would make games better or worse. For now I lean more on keeping the role as it is, but I'm open to seeing the role modified if the majority agrees on it.
 

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Why save the BP? Assassin can kill him at day.

Still no time to comment on the text changes.
Right, my brain stopped for a second there, BP only protects from Nightkills... :cookiestare

I don't really get the follow-up issue. A single mafia group making a nightkill and an Assassin kill on the following day is weaker than the Assassin killing on two consecutive days, no? And it only really becomes an issue for D1, since Assassins rarely seem to want to kill on that day (which makes it a self-nerf rather than a buff though) while you'd want to use Assassin every time you're able otherwise.

Regardless of whether they have an Assassin or not, a mafia team still gets one kill per day/cycle, starting with D1/N1. If they choose to make it N1/D2 instead of D1/D2, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to.



Might as well not give him any teammates at that point :lambirb

But regarding the refined targeting offered by Mafia Det or other circumstances, that just means the hosts need to be aware of what can happen if they put several mafia power roles in the same team with Assassin, or what can happen with multiple mafia teams that don't all have an Assassin with them. And to be fair, the mafia having to "store" their kill for the next day doesn't change much in that regard.



At any rate, the restriction about having to agree on the Assassin's target beforehand gets a big no from me, it's essentially not even a daykill anymore, just a delayed nightkill.

As for changing the order of precedence from day to night... it's not a full no yet. I can see the pros to the change; the mafia can recoup from the loss of a daykilled/lynched Assassin by immediately starting to kill on the following night, the "democratic" side of a mafia team deciding kills together is strengthened somewhat, and Assassin becomes slightly less of a broken, overpowered role that simply bypasses or one-ups several other roles than it currently is.

Still, the biggest change would be the shift of freedom/authority/responsibility for Assassin; as things are now, he is always able to choose if and whom he wants to kill at any given day, so he can adapt freely to any development the day brings without much sweat. If his kill has to be "stored", then that freedom is relegated to a previous team decision, while it also puts a heavier burden on the kill itself; if the Assassin dies during the night, for instance, the kill will have been wasted - and if the Assassin believes he'd better lie low for whatever reason and not strike because of something that happens during the day, he will also have wasted that "stored" kill.

The point is whether we think those are changes that would make games better or worse. For now I lean more on keeping the role as it is, but I'm open to seeing the role modified if the majority agrees on it.
I agree that restricting the Assassin's target to one discussed by the mafia might be taking too much freedom and flexibility, kind of a nerf so big that makes the role less fun, so Im also fine with not changing it.

Now the thing of storing the Nightkill to make use of the Daykill feels like a very necessary nerf, there has to be at least one drawback for such a poweful role, right now its only advantages and broken mechanics.

As you said, by storing the kill the mafia have to decide whether they want to take one approach or another, its not just "we kill this guy, if the kill fails we will kill him either way the next day." like cmon...
Also that way if the Assassin is lynched or killed, the Mafia still have their Night kill for the next NightPhase. The only difference that the change poses is avoiding the abnormality that poses Nightkill + followup Daykill and makes mafia think a little about the strategy they want to use with that role, like it happens with Poisoner. The change will make Assassin remain OP, but at least not absurdly game breaking.
 

GrySun

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I agree with nerfing the Assassin, but I'm not sure if the kill-storing is the right approach. Not sure how it'd work mechanic-wise, would blocking a mafia storing a kill do something with their stored kill, or would their kill being blocked let them use the Assassin daykill since theoretically they did no kill.

There has to be some better way to change it.
 

Lambu

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I agree with nerfing the Assassin, but I'm not sure if the kill-storing is the right approach. Not sure how it'd work mechanic-wise, would blocking a mafia storing a kill do something with their stored kill, or would their kill being blocked let them use the Assassin daykill since theoretically they did no kill.

There has to be some better way to change it.
Blocking the Assassin at night would change nothing, since there's no actual action to be blocked.
It would be the mafia just saying "We decide to perform our Mafia Kill the next day with our Assassin: Player X"
 

Farfalla

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Create a townie boomerang role that reflects the shot back whenever he's targeted for a kill on a day phase 8D
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

On a serious note, I don't think the Assassin needs a nerf/rework. Balancing the role is up to the hosts, but imo you guys are overlooking the drawbacks the role alrdy has. I alrdy mentioned how you can waste your team's kill on a solo decision/action and cause a lot of troubles for them, but the Assassin isn't immortal either, he can also die to a bomb and there are plenty of those (and now they can also hit a illusion and make the kill useless). And it's not like you can tell the host "I wanna kill X, but in 30mins", so using the Assassin ability, at times, also exposes the user. And finally, having a second chance on a kill isn't an amazing broken ability for the mafia... failing to kill is something awful for their team, so in a setup that contains many kills nullifiers, the Assassin can be a compensation to prevent the mafia's failure. It's still bad to take two rounds to kill a single target. So I rly think the role is fine, of course some roles are stronger and more useful/versatile than others, and hosts can totally work with the Assassin the way it is without breaking the game.
 

Copy Panda

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Might have missed or misunderstood something, but here's the first revised edition of Panda's 2019 Role List Overhaul:

TOWNIES
TOWNIE TOWNIES

[Does it need to say "Townies" everywhere? Just "Recruitment", "Voting", "Investigation", "Kill Prevention" would suffice as category names, imo. Also after every role name, it's redundant to see every single role say "Townie" if even TSC has it]

Regular Townie (Townie): The Player thinks they are a 'Regular Townie'. They actually are a Regular Townie - a townie can vote, think and deduce their way to success on the thread.

Miller (Townie): The Player thinks they are a 'Regular Townie'. They actually are a Miller - a townie who counts as a non-townie to certain 'Investigation' abilities. When they die the Player is revealed to be a 'Miller'.
[Begs the question, 'Which Investigative abilities?' - should say it's just Detectives]

Death Miller (Townie): The Player thinks they are a 'Regular Townie'. They actually are a Death Miller - a townie who counts as a non-townie to certain 'Investigation' abilities. When they die the Player is revealed to be a 'Mafia Member'.
[Same as above]

RECRUITING TOWNIES
Sleeper (Townie): The Player thinks they are a '[Regular] Townie'. They actually are a Sleeper - a townie who joins the Mafia they are killed by during the Night Phase.

Recruiting Mason (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Recruiting Mason ‘Recruits’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If the Target is a townie, their role is changed to 'Mason'. If the Target is a non-townie, the Mason Recruiter dies. Masons townies can communicate with each other at night.

Mason (Townie): The Mason is a townie who can communicate with other Masons during the Night Phase in a chat provided by the Host.

Threesome Candidate (TSC) (Townie): [At the start of the game, the Lover couple is notified that there is a TSC in the game.] During the Day Phase, the TSC ‘Recruits’ [does he though?] by guessing what two players are the Lovers in a PM to the Host. The Host informs the Player how many Lovers they guessed correctly (0, 1 or both). The TSC joins the Lovers if they guess both Lovers correctly. If one of the Lovers die, the TSC may guess the remaining Lover. If the last remaining Lover dies, the TSC dies the following Night Phase.
[Still lacks the detail that he can only win with his Lovers, unless that's never been a thing... Which I think should be a thing]

VOTING TOWNIES
Healthy Townie (Townie): A Healthy Townie will always be able to vote healthily and cannot be made to be unable to vote by the Sickly Townie [Should mention NVD and UVD being cured imo].
[Also odd to see it separated from Sickly, no need for alphabetical ordering, if you ask me]

Innocent Child (Townie): The Player is informed beforehand [at the start of the game? It's less unnecessarily vague] by the Host during what Day Phase they will be 'Revealed' to be an Innocent Child on the thread.

Noble (Townie): The Player is penalized for revealing they currently are a Noble on the thread. [* more about this at the bottom] During the Day Phase, the Noble anonymously ‘Votes’ for one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Target receives one "anonymous vote".

Politician (Townie): The Player is penalized for revealing they currently are a Politician on the thread. [*] During the Day Phase, the Politician anonymously ‘Votes’ [he still has his regular vote though, so I'd change the wording here] in PM by designating one Target to receive a vote and one player who can vote who has to place the vote. The vote-placing player receives a PM informing them they must vote [lock? Can they change after?] for the Target for without revealing why on the thread (or they are penalized [how much?]).

Restless Spirit (Townie): During the Day Phase after they have been killed [or lynched? So I'd just say "after they die"], the Restless Spirit ‘Votes’ by posting one message on the thread, vote locking onto one Target and explaining why.

Sickly Townie (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Sickly Townie ‘Infects’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Target cannot vote the following Day Phase.


INVESTIGATING TOWNIES
Sane Detective (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Sane Detective 'Investigates' one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player [Detective] receives an "Innocent" result for townies and "Guilty" result for non-townies. Detectives do not know about their sanity and must deduce this through gameplay [Don't think this part is necessary. Less words are better! Especially if they're repeated four times]

Insane Detective (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Insane Detective 'Investigates' one Player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player [Detective] receives an "Innocent" result for non-townies and "Guilty" result for Townies. Detectives do not know about their sanity and must deduce this through gameplay

Naive Detective (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Naive Detective 'Investigates' one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player [Detective] always receives an “Innocent” result. Detectives do not know about their sanity and must deduce this through gameplay

Paranoid Detective (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Paranoid Detective 'Investigates' one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player [Detective] always receives a “Guilty” result. Detectives do not know about their sanity and must deduce this through gameplay

Spy (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Spy 'Investigates' one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player receives a (list of) ‘Name(s)’ (no ‘Actions’ or ‘Roles’) targeted by their Target player, and only if they targeted any.
[What's with those confusing brackets x) Spy should always receive one name save for special mechanics imo, BK included. So I suggest:]

During the Night Phase, the Spy 'Investigates' one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If that player targeted someone with a Night Action, the Spy receives the name of the action's target. The Spy doesn't learn actions or roles.

[Can make it 'the name(s) of the action's target(s)' if want to keep that clause]


Paranoid Spy (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Paranoid Spy 'Investigates' one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player [Paranoid Spy] always receives a random ‘Name’ (no ‘Actions’ or ‘Roles’), whether their Target can or has used an Action or not.

Investigator (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Investigator 'Investigates' one dead player whose role is hidden [as] (???) by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player [Investigator] receives their Target’s hidden role.

Mortician (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Mortician 'Investigates' one dead player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player [Mortician] receives a list of ‘Actions’ (no ‘Names’ or ‘Roles’) used on their Target player, in chronological order.

[Might have noticed that I think specifying the role instead of "the Player" is better for investigative roles :XD Just to make descriptions as impervious to multiple interpretations as possible, even silly ones]


DOCTOR TOWNIES
[I'd personally group "Kill Prevention" roles (Docs, Hider, Bodyguard, BP) together and leave the others (Prostitute/Escort, BK, Jesus, Freeman) in "Disruption"]

Sane Doctor (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Sane Doctor ‘Protects’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Target cannot be killed by Night Actions [during that Night Phase]. The Doctor does not know their sanity.

Insane Doctor (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Insane Doctor ‘Protects’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. There is a 50% chance the Insane Doctor kills their Target rather than Protecting them. The Doctor does not know their sanity.

Naive Doctor (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Naive Doctor ‘Protects’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. There is a 0% chance the Naive Doctor protects their Target [so 100% chance he kills? :e3 I'd just say his action does nothing at all]. The Doctor does not know their sanity.


DISRUPTING TOWNIES
Bar Keeper (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Bar Keeper invites and ‘Blocks’ [?] three players by PM’ing their Targets name to the Host. One of the three players is randomly picked, and then randomly ‘Blocked’, ‘Redirected’ onto a random target or ‘Role Revealed’. The Bar Keeper is only informed of what effect occurred.
[Lacks the description of the effects. Their Night Action is blocked or redirected even if they don't have one, and 'Role Revealed' is vague for "their role is revealed to the BK".]

Escort (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Escort ‘Blocks’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Target cannot use their Night Action.
[Why no Prostitute anymore :feelsbadman Feels like it's too late for naming uniformity :P ]

Hider (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Hider ‘Hides’ by hiding [Hides by hiding...?] behind one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If the Hider is targeted by a ‘Kill’ action while hiding, the action fails. If the Hider Hides behind their Killer or the killer’s team, or the Target of the Hider is targeted and killed, the Hider dies.

Bodyguard (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Bodyguard ‘Redirects’ [confusing wording here too, imo] by protecting one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If their Target is targeted by a ‘Kill’ action, the attack is redirected onto the Bodyguard instead.

Bulletproof Townie (Townie): The Bulletproof Townie is 'Bulletproof' [are these keyword insertions necessary?] and cannot be Killed by Actions occurring during the Night Phase.

Jesus (Townie): If the Sheppard is Lynched or Killed, the Player is 'Revealed' to be Jesus, God bless, and will be 'Revived' the second Day Phase after dying, amen. The Player becomes a 'Regular Townie' after using this ability.

Freeman (Townie): If the Freeman dies, the next Day Phase is skipped. All role effects occurring on that Day Phase are instead moved to the following Day Phase.


BOMB TOWNIES
Bomb (Townie): If the Bomb is Lynched or Killed, the Player 'Explodes', killing the Player responsible for killing the Bomb or placing the last vote on them.

Time Bomb (Townie): The Host informs the Player what Night Phase they will 'Blow Up'. During that Night Phase, the Time Bomb ‘Blows Up’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player and the Target are both killed.

Kamikaze Bomb (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Kamikaze Bomb ‘Blows Up’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player and the Target are both killed. If the Kamikaze Bomb is Lynched or Killed, the player responsible for killing the Kamikaze Bomb or placing the last vote on them is killed as well.

Bomb Defuser (BD) (Townie): During the Night Phase, the BD ‘Defuses’ one player they think to be a Bomb by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If the Target is indeed Defused, the BD is informed of this and becomes a 'Regular Townie'.


SPITEFUL TOWNIES
Witch (Townie): Right after the Player is Lynched or Killed during the Day Phase, the Witch openly 'Spites' a Target on the thread by announcing their Target. The Target is killed the second Night after being Spited.
[Doesn't the Witch "spite"/curse in secret? Also not sure about daykills triggering her and VT too]

Vengeful Townie (Townie): Right after the Player is Lynched or Killed during the Day Phase, the Vengeful Townie openly 'Spites' a Target on the thread by announcing their Target [who gets immediately killed by the Host]. Upon resolution, the Host then eliminates the Target from the game.
[No need to account for delays due to absence in the role description, imo]

Paranoid Gun Owner (PGO) (Townie): If the PGO is Lynched or Killed, the Player 'Spites', the player responsible for killing the PGO or placing the last vote on them instead. The Player becomes a 'Regular Townie' after using this ability.
[??? This description is just incorrect. If he's targeted by any action during the night, he kills that player instead. Only one shot in his gun, no agency of his own. Where did you get all the rest...?]


ERUDITE TOWNIES
Pirate (Townie): During the Night Phase, the Pirate ‘Steals’ the Main Role of one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. Upon success, their Target’s role is (unknowingly) changed to ‘Regular Townie’, and the Pirate is informed of what role they have Stolen. If the Pirate attempts to steal the Main Role of a non-Townie, the Pirate dies.

Sane Apprentice (Townie): During two Night Phases, the Apprentice ‘Acquires’ the Main Role of one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If the target is killed or blocked, the Apprentice’s action fails. Upon successfully PM’ing the name of the same target twice, the Apprentice is informed of what role they Acquired. If the target is non-town, the Apprentice dies. If the target is a mason, the Apprentice joins their mason group as a Mason.
[This description could use some work imo. Also lacks that they don't know their own sanity, so I'd suggest:]

During the Night Phase, the Apprentice tries to 'acquire'/'learn' the Main Role of one player by PM’ing the Target's name to the Host. If the target is killed or blocked, the Apprentice fails to learn during that Night Phase. Upon successfully learning from the same target twice, the Apprentice is informed of what role they 'acquired'. If the target is non-town, the Sane Apprentice dies upon acquisition. If the target is a mason, the Apprentice joins their mason group as a Mason. The Sane Apprentice doesn't know their own sanity.

Insane Apprentice (Townie): During two Night Phases, the Insane Apprentice ‘Acquires’ the Main Role of one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If the target is killed or blocked, the Insane Apprentice’s action fails. Upon successfully PM’ing the name of the same target twice, the Insane Apprentice is informed of what role they Acquired. If the Target is mafia, the Insane Apprentice joins their mafia group as a Mafia Apprentice. If the Target is a Mentee, the Insane Apprentice joins their mentor group as a Mentee.
[Similar changes as above, or I'd rather go for:]

The Insane Apprentice is an Apprentice that doesn't die if they learn from a non-townie. If they acquire the role of a mafia, they join their mafia group as a Mafia Apprentice/RM/UM. If they target a Mentee, the Insane Apprentice joins their mentor group as a new Mentee. If they target a different Third Party, they acquire their role and become a new, independent Third Party player. The Insane Apprentice doesn't know their own sanity.



DAYTIME KILLING TOWNIES
Daytime Vigilante (DTV) (Townie): During the Day Phase, the DTV openly ‘Day Kills’ on the thread by announcing their Target. Upon resolution, the Host then eliminates the Target from the game. The Player [DTV] becomes a 'Regular Townie' after using this ability.

Badass Cowboy (BC) (Townie): During the Day Phase, the BC openly ‘Day Kills’ on the thread by announcing their Target. There is a 50% chance the Player [Badass Cowboy] dies instead. Upon resolution, the Host then eliminates the loser of the duel from the game.

Prosecutor (Townie): During the Day Phase, the Prosecutor openly ‘Day Kills’ a Target they think to be Mafia on the thread. During the end of the Day Phase, the Host reveals if the Target is Mafia. If the Target is not Mafia, the Player dies instead. Upon resolution, the Host then eliminates the loser of the duel from the game.
[Liked the old description better, mostly. How about:]

During the Day Phase, the Prosecutor can openly accuse a player they think to be non-townie on the thread. At the end of the Day Phase, the Host kills the Target is they are non-townie, or the Prosecutor if the Target is townie. The Prosecutor becomes a 'Regular Townie' after using this ability.


Martyr (Townie): The player is penalized for revealing they currently are a Martyr on the thread. [*] During the Day Phase, the Martyr ‘Protects’ for three player by PM’ing their Target’s names to the Host. If one of the three Target were to be targeted by an Action or be Lynched by town during the Day Phase, the Martyr is targeted instead.


MAFIA
[Not too sure about the role order here, but it's not too important. It's odd to see Regular Mafia at the bottom though]

CAPOS
Mafia Boss (Mafia): The Mafia Boss is considered a 'Townie' by 'Investigating' [Townie Det?] actions.

Mafia Assassin (Mafia): During the Day Phase, the Mafia Assassin ‘Day Kills’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. Upon resolution, the Host then eliminates the Target from the game. The Mafia cannot use another Killing ability on the same [following] night [if] they use the Players [Assassin's] Day Kill ability.

Mafia Mason (Mafia): A Mafia Mason is a Mafia who can communicate with other Masons at during the Night Phase in a chat provided by the Host. The player is pro-Mafia but appears to be a Mason to other Masons.
[Should be mentioned that he needs to be a starting Mason, I believe]

Mafia Janitor (Mafia): During the Night Phase, if the Mafia Janitor 'Kills', they may 'Clean Up' up their Target as well. [The roles of] Cleaned Up Targets roles remain hidden [as] (???) till the Janitor dies. The Janitor is informed of the role of their Target, however.

Mafia Poisoner (Mafia): During the Night Phase, if the Mafia Poisoner 'Kills', they may 'Spite' [just call it poison x) ] their Target instead. The Target is killed the second Night after being Spited. The Mafia cannot use another Killing ability on the same night they use the Players Spite ability.

During the Night Phase, the Mafia Poisoner may choose to 'poison' their Target as their killing action. The poisoned Target will die on the next night. A 'Kill Prevention' role can only save a poisoned player on the night they get poisoned/they would die from the poison. The Mafia cannot use another Killing ability on the same night they use a Poisoner's ability.

Mafia Strongman (Mafia): During the Night Phase, if the Mafia Strongman 'Kills', they may 'Strongarm' their Target as well. The Mafia Strongman cannot be 'Blocked' or 'Redirected' carrying out this kill, and the Target cannot 'Hide' or be 'Protected' [will be killed regardless of 'hiding', 'protection', or 'Bulletproof' status]. The Player becomes a 'Regular Mafia Member' after using this ability.


MADE MEN
Mafia Bomb (Mafia): If the Mafia Bomb is Lynched or Killed, the Player 'Explodes', killing the player responsible for killing the Bomb or placing the last vote on them.

Mafia Bomb Defuser (MBD) (Mafia): During the Night Phase, the MBD ‘Defuses’ one player they think to be a Bomb by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If the Target is indeed Defused, the MBD is informed of this and becomes a 'Regular Mafia Member'.

Mafia Detective (Mafia): During the Night Phase, the Mafia Detective 'Investigates' one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The player receives a "[ROLE]" result for Townies and "????" result for non-Townies. The Mafia Detective cannot 'Kill' during the night they Investigate.

Mafia Escort (Mafia): During the Night Phase, the Mafia Escort ‘Blocks’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The target cannot use their Night action. The Mafia Escort cannot 'Kill' during the night they Block.

Mafia Gambler (Mafia): During the Day Phase, the Mafia Gambler anonymously ‘Votes’ in PM by designating one Target to receive a vote and one player who can vote who must place the vote. The vote placing player receives a PM, and must place their vote on the Mafia Gamblers target without revealing why (or they are penalized). If the Target dies during the Day Phase, the Mafia Gambler becomes 'Bulletproof' the following Night Phase. If the Target doesn’t die, the Mafia Gambler is 'Blocked' the following night instead.

Mafia Pirate (Mafia) During the Night Phase, the Mafia Pirate ‘Steals’ the Main Role of one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. Upon success, their Target’s role is (unknowingly) changed to ‘Regular Townie’, and the Mafia Pirate is informed of what role they Stolen. If the Mafia Pirate attempts to steal the Main Role of a non-Townie, the Mafia Pirate dies. If the Mafia Pirate successfully Steals an ability, they can only Kill if the stolen ability allows for that. [Not a wording issue, but I'd honestly remove the killing limitation tbh]


ASSOCIATES
Mafia Burden (Mafia): If the Mafia Burden dies, the next Night Phase is skipped. All role effects occurring on that Night Phase are instead moved to the following Night Phase.

Mafia Member (Mafia): The Player and the Mafia thinks they are a 'Regular Mafia Member'. They actually are. Their goal is to survive for the good of their family. They can vote on the thread at day and decide on who to Kill in private at night.

Unskilled Mafia Member (Mafia): The Player and the Mafia thinks they are a 'Regular Mafia Member'. They are actually an Unskilled Mafia Member. There is a 50% chance that a Kill carried out by the Player fails.

THIRD PARTY
Serial Killer
(Third Party): The Serial Killer operates as an independent party. During the Night Phase, the Serial Killer ‘Kills’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Serial Killer wins by being eliminating all other players. Eventual 'Draws' are resolved in the Serial Killer's favour.

Mentor (Third Party): The Mentor operates as an independent party. If they do not have a Mentee, during the Night Phase, the Mentor ‘Recruits’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If the Target is a townie, their role is changed to 'Mentee'. If the Target is a non-townie, the Mentor dies. [not how the role currently works] The Mentor and their Mentee can communicate with each other at night. If the Mentor and Mentee are both alive, they may 'Kill' one player by sending a PM to the Host. The Mentor and Mentee win by being eliminating all other players. Eventual 'Draws' are resolved in the Mentor and Mentee's favour.

Mentee (Third Party): A Mentee is a player who has been recruited by a Mentor. They can talk to the Mentor privately at Night, but dies the same [Day or] Night the Mentor dies. The Mentor and their Mentee can communicate with each other at night. [redundant?] If the Mentor and Mentee are both alive, they [one of them] may 'Kill' one player by sending a PM to the Host. The Mentor and Mentee win by being eliminating all other players. Eventual 'Draws' are resolved in the Mentor and Mentee's favour.

Santa Claus (Third Party): The Santa Claus operates as an independent party. The Host presents Santa Claus with 5 Presents. [Should illustrate what presents can be, imo - "they can be anything ranging from role changes, to additional votes, to DEATH BY POISON" or the like :lambirb ] During the Night Phase, the Serial Killer ‘Gifts’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Santa Claus wins by successfully Gifting the last of their Presents. The Player knows the content of all gifts and can freely gift them in any order they see fit.

Shapeshifter (Third Party): During the Night Phase, the Shapeshifter ‘Hides’ by hiding behind one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. If the Shapeshifter is targeted by a ‘Kill’ action while hiding, the action fails. If the Shapeshifter ‘Hides’ behind their Killer or the killer’s team, or the Target of the Shapeshifter is targeted and killed, the Shapeshifter dies. If the Shapeshifters Hiding was successful and the Target remains alive, the Target becomes an 'Illusion'. The Shapeshifter and Illusions win when they equal or outnumber the remaining players alive.

Illusion (Third Party): If the Player is successfully targeted by the Shapeshifter, their Role (unknowingly) is change to Illusion. If they are targeted by any Night Action, or the Shapeshifter dies, the Illusion dies. The Shapeshifter and Illusions win when they equal or outnumber the remaining players alive.

SECONDARY ROLES
[Yep, I think we can leave the (Third Party), (Neutral), (Mafia) and (Townie) faction designation for the Secondary Roles category only]

Lovers (Third Party): Two Players from different factions are given the Lovers secondary role. The Lovers operates as a Third party. During the Night Phase, they can communicate with one another. The Lovers win by being the last remaining Survivors. If one Lover dies, the remaining Lover commits suicide on the following night.

Unlimited Voter Disease (UVD) (Neutral): During the Day Phase, a Player with UVD cannot lock their vote, but can change their vote an unlimited amount of times. During the Night Phase, a player with UVD ‘Infects’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player passes on the Secondary Role by Infecting a player. If the Target is a Healthy Townie, the UVD will be cured instead.

Not Voter Disease (NVD) (Neutral): During the Day Phase, a Player with NVD cannot vote. During the Night Phase, a player with NVD ‘Infects’ one player by PM’ing their Target’s name to the Host. The Player passes on the Secondary Role by Infecting a player. If the Target is a Healthy Townie, the NVD will be cured instead.

Traitor (Mafia): The Player is assigned a townie role, but they can only win with the Mafia. The Traitor joins the Mafia as a Regular Mafia Member if they are killed by them during the Night Phase. The Traitor is given a Name(s) of Member(s) of the Mafia team they must be 'Killed' and 'Recruited' by. The Player counts as a non-townie towards Night Actions.

Naive Traitor (Townie): The Player thinks they are a 'Traitor'. They actually are a Naive Traitor - a townie who has been given incorrect [random?] Names. Their win condition and townie status remains unchanged.


Most are subjective wording issues, and I also left out the roles like SS or Townie Pirate that are currently being reanalyzed. Other times it's just me nitpicking, but not always :nerd

In general, I'm not big on the keyword system ('Investigates', 'Kills', 'Actions', 'Roles', ...) and I find the excess of capital letters to make it less nice and easy to read. Other than that, I think the rework is good.

[*] As for the penalties for revealing day roles, as I mentioned some time ago I believe the rule was set in order to punish fake usage of those roles - like going "Daykill Panda!" when you aren't a DTV, or a mafia getting through the day by accusing someone like a Prosecutor. Otherwise, I don't think it makes much sense to make the roles unclaimable. You can either confirm them outright eventually, or you can easily hint at them without saying the role name out loud, essentially making the penalties a meme trap for careless players.

So I would remove the penalty for claiming day roles altogether.
VAN Im so sorry, because you spoiler'd this I completely missed this! Youl should have tagged me @.@

I agree with most fixes. The 'Player' at the start is indeed better off being replaced by the role description. Most fixes you point out are correct, I'd say. The prostitute to escort thing seemed PC, but I don't mind either way. The 'types' ('investigation', 'protecting', etc.) are there mostly so that they can more easily be referenced in other roles (like you did with Mafia Strongman).

After the current game, I'll add your fixes and we can reflect on the whole thing again.
 

Crescent Jinx

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英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
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Best Friends - (secondary) The two players are best friends that know each other's roles from the beginning of the game, though they do not have the ability to communicate privately with each other.

Not sure what alliance this should be but sounds fun. :XD
 
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